would it LITERALLY KILL the Polyphony developers to start us in any place other than last?

[xMAXIx79]

PD could make it easy on itself... 3 levels of difficulty..... Rank 1 AI vehicles then drive as fast as the average of the fastest 10,000 players. Rank 2 then as fast as the average of the top 1000 and rank 3 drives as fast lap times as the average of the top 100 drivers..... I would be amused by those who are still complaining that it's too easy and then whining because they can no longer win a race. Achso and any OP vehicles are then of course also prohibited.

 

[Will Once]

The best solution is a significantly better AI that scales from beginner to expert, but that obviously isn't coming any time soon so what I said is the best compromise with grid starts.

If they let us have grid starts you can tailor your car to match the AI so you can at least have some semblence of a real race, battling for positions over several laps. It's something. You can never get that with the rolling start. Sure, you can pick a slower car but all that achieves is you catch the lead rabbit closer to the end, or maybe not at all, because you run out of time despite going 5+ seconds a lap faster.

The best solution is a better AI? I'm struggling with that concept. The game already has AI cars that are faster than any human. They can do this by what we might call "cheating" - either by having a faster car or by copying the lines from the elite drivers. If PD turns the wick all the way up to 11 there's no way we can win except by using exploits.

The art behind GT is in turning the wick down to get a commercial difficulty level which responds to the different skill levels of its players. As you say, the AI has to scale from beginner to expert.

So each race will have a number 1 AI car, followed some way back by a number 2, then another gap to number 3 and so on.

If we want to win, we have to be faster than all of these cars. There are two ways to be faster than the rest of the field. We can either have a rolling start from the back or we can have a qualifying lap. But either way we need to overtake all these cars. And what is more fun - to overtake them in a race or "overtake" them on an empty track during quali?

GT7 is a game. It has to be fun.

Or put it another way. I'm willing to bet that PD has game-tested both rolling starts and grid starts. And when they did this I'm sure the players would say they preferred to overtake other cars in a race rather than a dry qualifying session

 

[Absolutdani]

I see them communicating with the community much more then i ever see them do.

Lol wut?

 

[Samus]

Lets go with 300 plus. Then its even more ridiculous you think only one man is working on ai.

Give me one good reason I should believe differently, when that is how they were credited? Like I said, in GT5 and GT6 there were two people listed. Now there is only one.

Why should I believe there is an army of people working on AI that they didn't bother crediting?

The best solution is a better AI? I'm struggling with that concept.

I'm not sure why. It's pretty obvious.

The game already has AI cars that are faster than any human. They can do this by what we might call "cheating" -

Yes, and if they make them better they can be faster without cheating.

If PD turns the wick all the way up to 11 there's no way we can win except by using exploits.

If they outright cheat and give them better cars, sure. But not on outright performance. The Sophy AI they showed off before launch is NOT in the game.

The art behind GT is in turning the wick down to get a commercial difficulty level which responds to the different skill levels of its players. As you say, the AI has to scale from beginner to expert.

But it doesn't. GT7 still has fixed difficulty even in events where it's not supposed to. One size will never fit all.

So each race will have a number 1 AI car, followed some way back by a number 2, then another gap to number 3 and so on.

If we want to win, we have to be faster than all of these cars. There are two ways to be faster than the rest of the field. We can either have a rolling start from the back or we can have a qualifying lap. But either way we need to overtake all these cars. And what is more fun - to overtake them in a race or "overtake" them on an empty track during quali?

GT7 is a game. It has to be fun.

You know what I find fun in other racing games? Qualifying where my pace dictates and then having a good old fashioned race between AI cars that all want to win.

When the race itself provides thrills and excitement I don't need to win every race or overtake 15 cars. Starting fourth and gradually gaining on the third place car at 0.3s per lap and finally catching and passing them to finish third is great fun.

Try playing some other racing games. Sure, they all employ 'cheats' to some degree, the AI never run to the same physics as you do, but they do a damn sight better job of providing exciting racing that feels natural.

If people don't want to qualify and not start near the front, they don't have to.

Or put it another way. I'm willing to bet that PD has game-tested both rolling starts and grid starts. And when they did this I'm sure the players would say they preferred to overtake other cars in a race rather than a dry qualifying session

I highly doubt it. I've not seen many people who say they actually enjoy overtaking barely moving bollards because you're going 5+ seconds a lap faster. Passing a car because you're a few tenths faster over 5 laps, much more rewarding.

 

[Will Once]

Give me one good reason I should believe differently, when that is how they were credited? Like I said, in GT5 and GT6 there were two people listed. Now there is only one.

Why should I believe there is an army of people working on AI that they didn't bother crediting?

I'm not sure why. It's pretty obvious.

Yes, and if they make them better they can be faster without cheating.

If they outright cheat and give them better cars, sure. But not on outright performance. The Sophy AI they showed off before launch is NOT in the game.

But it doesn't. GT7 still has fixed difficulty even in events where it's not supposed to. One size will never fit all.

You know what I find fun in other racing games? Qualifying where my pace dictates and then having a good old fashioned race between AI cars that all want to win.

When the race itself provides thrills and excitement I don't need to win every race or overtake 15 cars. Starting fourth and gradually gaining on the third place car at 0.3s per lap and finally catching and passing them to finish third is great fun.

Try playing some other racing games. Sure, they all employ 'cheats' to some degree, the AI never run to the same physics as you do, but they do a damn sight better job of providing exciting racing that feels natural.

If people don't want to qualify and not start near the front, they don't have to.

I highly doubt it. I've not seen many people who say they actually enjoy overtaking barely moving bollards because you're going 5+ seconds a lap faster. Passing a car because you're a few tenths faster over 5 laps, much more rewarding.

You have a clear idea of what you want. That's great - for you. But your idea of what you want from the game isn't the same as everyone else's. Not everyone will be happy with a game where you routinely finish third or you spend an entire race to overtake only one car.

PD have to produce a game that will appeal to a broad spectrum of tastes.

Passing a car because you're a few tenths faster over 5 laps? That might appeal to a small proportion of players but not the majority.

 

[MadMax97]

I would like if they bring back qualify in singleplayer

 

[Silver Arrows]

I see them communicating with the community much more then i ever see them do.

Ah yes, one frankly pithy letter to the community filled with the typical mealy-mouthed 'promises' that Kaz is usually want to make.

This post would be helpful for you, as it outlines all the times that Kaz has more or less lied to get the heat off his back. That letter especially continues the pattern, and it sure doesn't look like it's stopping anytime soon.

Then its even more ridiculous you think only one man is working on ai.

You have shown absolutely jack as to why you think we should believe there is more then one person working on the AI, as proven by the credits.

Pot, meet kettle.

The game already has AI cars that are faster than any human.

Oh yeah, because 95% of the Cafe menus AI aside from the one WTC 600 event at the Red Bull Ring in the rain are so much faster then humans, and the only reason they are faster is because Polyphony set the rabbit to be chased far enough that even with a car up to the bleeding edge PP limit and with a mega drive, you might not have enough to past first. Every other time is literally just a question of when you pass first place.

The art behind GT is in turning the wick down to get a commercial difficulty level which responds to the different skill levels of its players.

They did. They wouldn't have introduced a difficulty selection if they didn't have nearly persistent complaints from the community and reviewers for a decade plus (including this very site's reviews) to introduce something more significant then chasing the rabbit.

Too bad that the fix they instituted was worse then pointless, because the main gameplay thrust, the menus, are still more or less the same easy chase the rabbit style of races that have been in place since GT5. And the selectable difficulty is useless outside of that very narrow wheelhouse, because the World Circuit races are governed by their own difficulty logic, and the same goes for Custom Races and Missions.

So what do we have then? A solution that pleases no one, when it could have very easily done so if Polyphony bothered to care about likewise titles that actually manage to make decent AI that pleases everyone. Too bad Kaz believes nothing exists outside of GT then.

And what is more fun - to overtake them in a race or "overtake" them on an empty track during quali?

Too bad that overtaking them in a race amounts to chasing the rabbit, something that has plagued the series since GT5. So are we really racing, or are we just doing track days?

GT7 is a game. It has to be fun.

And it isn't. The AI is a massive problem in that, and maybe just as importantly, the structure of the races work in sync with the AI to make a miserable racing experience that pleases no one. And Polyphony have more or less ignored constant criticism, again including from this very site's reviews, to stay the course.

PD have to produce a game that will appeal to a broad spectrum of tastes.

They haven't.

That might appeal to a small proportion of players but not the majority.

Then what the **** are they playing racing games for, if not for the desire to race against others, human or otherwise and have it represent at least some semblance of competition?

Every time you have spoken about this subject you have shown absolutely no real knowledge on what the player base wants in terms of racing, and that ultimately, Polyphony's way of fixing the issues in this game are worse then useless, and you'd realize that if you played any of the races that they have you going through in GT7, or anything from GT5 onward. You believe that the majority of the player base wants chase the rabbit scenarios, when reviews, including for this very site have consistently rated AI as one of the major problem areas, among many others.

 

[Will Once]

Ah yes, one frankly pithy letter to the community filled with the typical mealy-mouthed 'promises' that Kaz is usually want to make.

This post would be helpful for you, as it outlines all the times that Kaz has more or less lied to get the heat off his back. That letter especially continues the pattern, and it sure doesn't look like it's stopping anytime soon.

You have shown absolutely jack as to why you think we should believe there is more then one person working on the AI, as proven by the credits.

Pot, meet kettle.

Oh yeah, because 95% of the Cafe menus AI aside from the one WTC 600 event at the Red Bull Ring in the rain are so much faster then humans, and the only reason they are faster is because Polyphony set the rabbit to be chased far enough that even with a car up to the bleeding edge PP limit and with a mega drive, you might not have enough to past first. Every other time is literally just a question of when you pass first place.


They did. They wouldn't have introduced a difficulty selection if they didn't have nearly persistent complaints from the community and reviewers for a decade plus (including this very site's reviews) to introduce something more significant then chasing the rabbit.

Too bad that the fix they instituted was worse then pointless, because the main gameplay thrust, the menus, are still more or less the same easy chase the rabbit style of races that have been in place since GT5. And the selectable difficulty is useless outside of that very narrow wheelhouse, because the World Circuit races are governed by their own difficulty logic, and the same goes for Custom Races and Missions.

So what do we have then? A solution that pleases no one, when it could have very easily done so if Polyphony bothered to care about likewise titles that actually manage to make decent AI that pleases everyone. Too bad Kaz believes nothing exists outside of GT then.


Too bad that overtaking them in a race amounts to chasing the rabbit, something that has plagued the series since GT5. So are we really racing, or are we just doing track days?


And it isn't. The AI is a massive problem in that, and maybe just as importantly, the structure of the races work in sync with the AI to make a miserable racing experience that pleases no one. And Polyphony have more or less ignored constant criticism, again including from this very site's reviews, to stay the course.


They haven't.


Then what the **** are they playing racing games for, if not for the desire to race against others, human or otherwise and have it represent at least some semblance of competition?

Every time you have spoken about this subject you have shown absolutely no real knowledge on what the player base wants in terms of racing, and that ultimately, Polyphony's way of fixing the issues in this game are worse then useless, and you'd realize that if you played any of the races that they have you going through in GT7, or anything from GT5 onward. You believe that the majority of the player base wants chase the rabbit scenarios, when reviews, including for this very site have consistently rated AI as one of the major problem areas, among many others.

Woah - that's one angry post! Calm, calm, calm.

This site isn't representative of the entire player base for GT7. PD shifted around 200,000 copies of the game in March and I don't know how many in April and May. A small proportion of these buyers will be keen enough to want to join a website like this one. Most will be noobs/ casual players. What's the proportion? I'd hazard a guess that it's an example of the pareto principle - 80% casual players and 20% more experienced.

Like all games publishers, PD need to find a balance between the noobs/ casual players and the more serious players. PD and Sony will have analysts assessing the different types of players and working out how best to pitch the game to appeal to the majority. That's why we have rolling starts, dodgy AI and rubber-banding. PD / Sony want to give people lots of overtaking because that it what most people want.

I've been playing GT since the beginning. I've bought a PS2, PS3 and PS4 to keep on playing the game, and would have bought a PS5 if GT7 hadn't been available on PS4. And in all that time there has been a constant tension between what the casual players wanted and what the more experienced players wanted. What we are seeing now is nothing new.

 

[MustangRyan]

Scenario #4: PD code a more intelligent AI. This will take processor bandwidth and mean that there will need to be compromises elsewhere - reducing the quality of the visuals? Dumbing down the physics? What are we prepared to give up?

I'm willing to give up the PS4 version of this game.

The game should be stretching the limits of the PS5 hardware, not dumbing itself down to run on the PS4.

 

[Nebuc72]

Passing a car because you're a few tenths faster over 5 laps? That might appeal to a small proportion of players but not the majority.

What the hell does this even mean hahahaha

Who on earth plays a racing game to not race?

Honestly man they could deliver a turd in a game case and people would go "Just because you don't like paying £70 for poo doesn't mean that reflects the majority"

 

[BangsMcCoy]

I’m guessing it has a lot to do with avoiding races being extremely boring and having to earn the Clean Race Bonus. If you started in 1st or 2nd in a race, it would be very boring as you’d be in 1st over 99% of the race unless you’re driving an underpowered car or totally unfamiliar with the track or car. Point is, when they start you out in last you have to work your way through the pack which provides some level of strategy and racing experience (however little it may be for you) if you’re trying to earn the Clean Race Bonus and simulate real world racing experience on the track as much as a console game will allow. If you don’t care about that, then ram those cars all you want and cut corners I suppose, but you’re probably playing the wrong game if that’s your idea of fun. You’d be better off playing NFS. Without having to work your way through the pack, the only challenge would be simply to stay on the track to earn the bonus.
if the AI is too challenging for you to catch and take 1st place by the end of the race you need to lower your difficulty setting until you get better, or choose a better car/setup.
AI is definitely far from perfect, and they could offer you a choice of starting type like they do in Custom Race mode, but I think for the average GT7 player they’d get very bored very fast if all races started them in even the top 5.

 

[SrGS]

Unfortunately, I don't see any possibility of improvement on that regard. It's hard to tell what is the thought process behind some decisions that PD makes, it's a company that doesn't talk to their player base as actively as it should nowdays, and do whatever it feels like doing, ignoring the backlash as much as possible. It's outdated, yet successful, so this mindset won't change that easily.

GT7 doesn't feel like a racing game, due to the AI. As I mentioned on another post, "racing" in GT7 feels like you are trying to do a hot lap on a track day. Starting last most of the time is set to probably make the event more challenging, since the AI can't handle itself very well. It's been like this since GT1, and probably will be like this in GT8.

 

[StealthVel]

I feel like with the main career mode events where you start 30 seconds behind first place, such an approach would be fun as maybe a mission race. But the objective of main races should be to be faster than opponents, battling competitively, not tune your car to oblivion to have even a chance of overtaking the AI in a larger version of a The Pass mission.

What I'm saying is, the races feel like an overtaking mission over multiple laps. Not a race.

 

[Meythia]

What I'm saying is, the races feel like an overtaking mission over multiple laps. Not a race.

If your goal is to have AI that will pressure you all the time after you had a qualification period,
this can only ever be achieved for all players by AI rubberbanding directly behind you whenever you have the slightest bit of a lead.
Otherwise if you want to make the AI skilled drivers, this will leave a lot of players back at last position. And a scaling AI is already what we see, only missing a few steps above what it already does, but in that sense multiplayer is the answer to find other drivers on or around the same level of competition (ideally).

That being said: I dont like the multiplayer for quite a few reasons, but even if it would be the occasional player warping around it would already mess up all the fun for the day to me. So yes, AI that could keep up would be more fun than the game currently is, but no, I dont think the game is boring, nor do I care too much about the current chase style.

 

[Samus]

Have you guys actually, you know, played other racing games?

Never thought I'd see people defend the catch up format as better "racing" than something more realistic. Wild, but not unexpected.

 

[BangsMcCoy]

Have you guys actually, you know, played other racing games?

Never thought I'd see people defend the catch up format as better racing than something more realistic. Wild, but not unexpected.

I personally have played countless racing games on many different platforms since 1987 when I got my first Nintendo. Racing games are one of my favorite type of game and one of the few I still make time to play.

 

[Samus]

I personally have played countless racing games on many different platforms since 1987 when I got my first Nintendo. Racing games are one of my favorite type of game and one of the few I still make time to play.

..and you find the catch up format better than actually racing as an equal, in a pack of cars that all want to win?

What is so exciting about just gliding past these AI cars with little effort because they're so ridiculously slower than you? The AI are never actually challenging, you just simply run out of time. They can't be challenging, because if they were running at the same pace as you, you'd never catch up to them.

Even other games that allow you to start last still just put you last on the grid, they don't put you 40 seconds behind the leader with a huge gap between each car.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Spend time and effort enjoying the things you love.. don't waste it trying to convince people that what they like is ****.

 

[Nebuc72]

Have you guys actually, you know, played other racing games?

Never thought I'd see people defend the catch up format as better "racing" than something more realistic. Wild, but not unexpected.

They've certainly not heard of a difficulty slider.

All this talk about races being too hard or too easy or boring is completely asinine. Literally every game since about 2013 has given you a difficulty slider in racing games that allow you to pretty much perfectly dictate their pace.

I cannot fathom in the slightest why so many people seem to think that if GT touches AI then the game is going to be completely unplayable. Any and every issue people are bringing up is fixed completely by either "turn up the difficulty so the AI is faster" or "turn it down if you're getting smoked"

Like, you do not need the random PD design philosophy to have a good race. You can just let players adjust the difficulty to the point where everyone can have their own challenge. Like the F1 games. Or the PCars games. Or AC. Or ACC. And so on.

 

[Samus]

Spend time and effort enjoying the things you love.. don't waste it trying to convince people that what they like is ****.

Who is doing the convincing here? OP says they want races without the catch up format, cue several people bizarrely trying to tell them and others that actually the catch up format is great and come up with bonkers reasoning for why races that mimic real racing would be terrible. Despite, you know, pretty much every other racing game managing it just fine.

 

[a1904]

1. Go slow yourself and take the speed hit.

2. Slow before corner entry, adjust your line, and exit the corner where they aren't. This is the best way. In the case of eau rouge, you can back off well before the corner so you're exiting after them but carrying way more speed down the straight.

3. Take a penalty and lose your clean race bonus.

I know it sucks sometimes, but you quickly learn where the AI sucks on track. Adjust accordingly. It's rare that I've ever hit AI, and I always go for the clean race.

Them hitting us on the other hand... now that's frustrating and sometimes impossible to avoid because they're also totally blind morons.

Yeah, I tended to do the second (or third since for some reason it does not actually cost you your clean race bonus and sometimes taking the hit is worth not having to squeeze past two AI cars going two abreast on the straight) but it's still frustrating because it makes long races against the AI a slalom competition for the first couple of laps and then just a cruise. I'd rather start somewhere in the middle and have the AI actually drive the car properly.

Because I feel like having the AI go at full throttle through places where they should and getting their braking points right should be the easy bit to program with them not ramming you being the harder bit but somehow PD hasn't figured out either

 

[Will Once]

I'm willing to give up the PS4 version of this game.

The game should be stretching the limits of the PS5 hardware, not dumbing itself down to run on the PS4.

Well, yes and no.

I'd also be willing to give up the PS4 version of the game. I'd also like a PS5 version which stretched the limits of the hardware.

But ... Sony and PD have to act commercially. There are far too many PS4s out there that they can't ignore. And while I could afford to buy a PS5 not everyone can.

So while both you and I would like a PS5 only version of the game, Sony and PD are not likely to give us one in the near future.

 

[Will Once]

What the hell does this even mean hahahaha

Who on earth plays a racing game to not race?

Honestly man they could deliver a turd in a game case and people would go "Just because you don't like paying £70 for poo doesn't mean that reflects the majority"

Okay, I'll break it down for you.

Let's imagine that GT had a qualifying system before every race. Let's then imagine that on one particular race you need a lap time of 2 minutes to get onto pole position. By a combination of driver skill and having a better car, you post a qualifying time of 2 minutes. You start on pole and win the race without overtaking anyone.

You only get to see the other cars in the rear view mirror. You qualified on an empty track and you raced on what might as well have been an empty track.

Now some would say that was realistic. It was how Mercedes won all those world titles.

But others would find it deeply boring. Why go to all the trouble of modelling other cars if we don't get to see them except in the replay?

So PD have rolling starts and catch the rabbit races. They have rubber banding and survivable barrier collisions. Driver aids and difficulty levels. All designed to make the game enjoyable for as many people as possible. Which inevitably means that there is some dumbing down.

That's life, my friend.

 

[Meythia]

I'd also be willing to give up the PS4 version of the game. I'd also like a PS5 version which stretched the limits of the hardware.

The game already has slightly different visual quality for PS4 and PS5:
resolution
update frequency of reflections
lighting quality

as far as I could tell from a few comparative YTs

 

[Pete_J_C]

So PD have rolling starts and catch the rabbit races. They have rubber banding and survivable barrier collisions. Driver aids and difficulty levels. All designed to make the game enjoyable for as many people as possible. Which inevitably means that there is some dumbing down.

That's life, my friend.

you seem unable to read what people are writing this thread. you mention difficulty slider, it does not make the game more easy or more difficult. if the easy difficulty was for casual drivers who enjoy chase the rabbit, and hard difficulty involved qualifying against competent drivers, then that would be great. but it isn't. every single player has to put up with chase the rabbit nonsense, making the game extremely unenjoyable for, how many did you say, 30% of players who have their head switched on realising how poor and gimmicky the AI is?

 

[Nebuc72]

Okay, I'll break it down for you.

Let's imagine that GT had a qualifying system before every race. Let's then imagine that on one particular race you need a lap time of 2 minutes to get onto pole position. By a combination of driver skill and having a better car, you post a qualifying time of 2 minutes. You start on pole and win the race without overtaking anyone.

You only get to see the other cars in the rear view mirror. You qualified on an empty track and you raced on what might as well have been an empty track.

Now some would say that was realistic. It was how Mercedes won all those world titles.

But others would find it deeply boring. Why go to all the trouble of modelling other cars if we don't get to see them except in the replay?

So PD have rolling starts and catch the rabbit races. They have rubber banding and survivable barrier collisions. Driver aids and difficulty levels. All designed to make the game enjoyable for as many people as possible. Which inevitably means that there is some dumbing down.

That's life, my friend.

Ffs man in that situation, if the AI was comptent and up to modern standards, you just would turn the difficulty up so the AI are hot on you for the lead.

I have no idea why you are obsessed with the idea that the only way to have realistic AI is to have them trundle around in last place?

Additionally, you know why Mercedes did so well? Because their car was better. Another shock horror revelation coming out here in that you can use a different car to level out the playing field if what you're using is too fast.

 

[Pigems]

What the hell does this even mean hahahaha

Who on earth plays a racing game to not race?

Honestly man they could deliver a turd in a game case and people would go "Just because you don't like paying £70 for poo doesn't mean that reflects the majority"

Who the hell plays a racing game to race against AI cars? There is no thrill or race in driving against AI. You can hit pause/reset anytime and there’s nothing on the line at all. I can’t possibly think of something more boring, even if they aren’t fast enough to keep up. iRacing is a perfect example, super fast AI, and I still wouldn’t waste a single lap on a track with them.

 

[Jewel Runner]

off topic but, excluding championship races, even sports mode qualifying isn't really qualifying. it's retry retry retry retry while driving at 200% risk for a time that lasts the whole week.

still, it's another day on a thread with people uphappy with the AI. sophy AI will fix it guys.. I promise..

Sport mode is absolutely qualifying. In sport mode we are competing against humans and retrying, putting the effort in pays off. We get to know what our skill level is against other humans and it's infinitely more fun when racing in sport mode.

 

[Nebuc72]

Who the hell plays a racing game to race against AI cars? There is no thrill or race in driving against AI. You can hit pause/reset anytime and there’s nothing on the line at all. I can’t possibly think of something more boring, even if they aren’t fast enough to keep up. iRacing is a perfect example, super fast AI, and I still wouldn’t waste a single lap on a track with them.

I dont race against the AI unless I have to, I find them lifeless even in good implementations because like you said, you know they're not real. That alone changes the dynamic of the racing.

I am sympathetic to those who don't race online though and are unhappy with what GT does currently offer, which is why I want to see change. Racing against AI is pretty much all we had in racing games for a long time, and it's a shame to see efforts to improve them fall through - after all, those AI races are what made the GT franchise so popular, not online.

 

[Pete_J_C]

Sport mode is absolutely qualifying. In sport mode we are competing against humans and retrying, putting the effort in pays off. We get to know what our skill level is against other humans and it's infinitely more fun when racing in sport mode.

what youre saying is absolutely correct and I agree but it's not really responding to what I said. when I say retry, I don't mean practice practice practice, I mean literally pressing the retry button when you aren't launched from a curb at precisely the fastest way, for example. for the most part qualifying elsewhere is about going as fast as you can with low fuel and tyres that would normally be gone within a couple of laps, allowing for somewhat of a safety margin because you cannot press escape and then retry and keep on going like that for hours and hours. it's not about pace in gran turismo, at least compared to other racing games or irl, it's about putting in a ridiculous amount of hours until you hit every curb perfectly. I watched Aura's stream the other week..