Wow new 125's are slow aren't they ?.

Bopop4
I'm not going to repeat what I've said for the 3rd time now. If you can find a shred of evidence that says a 500 is easier to control then be my guest to post it and have someone else quote it, because you're the first person to go on my ignore list.

I like your bike and your car, but you come off as extremely immature, like yelling louder to make a point more valid.
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English is apparently not your 1st language.

I have never claimed a 500cc 2t is easy to control. Who would?

I clearly stated that the only reason a modern MotoGP bike appears docile compared to a 500cc t2 and therefor is easier to control is because of the ELECTONIC MANAGEMENT of the various control systems.

I have no need to yell - I am correct and you are incorrect.

I have more bike, track and general riding experience of all types of motorcycles in one of my worn out boots than you would dream of.

You will read this, whether on ignore or not - I know, you as a wet behind the ear know it all would not be able to resist it.

As for Tornado and the other ignorant buffoons pontificating viz-a-viz gun rights - what an effing joke each of them and their bloviating rants are.

Again I remember why I only pop around these gaming forums after a new release - I literally cannot stand the putrid stench of the BS spewed by many under 30's.

Time to return the real world and leave the basement dwellers to drool amongst themselves.
 
Seriously? Is this really getting into a one sided pissing match about bikes from the 80s? It's 2014, times have changed. Stop being a stubborn elitist.
 
I am really sorry this has happened, i didn't intend to let it go this far.Would it be a good idea for this thread to get deleted or not ?.
 
Smoke&Slide
I am really sorry this has happened, i didn't intend to let it go this far.Would it be a good idea for this thread to get deleted or not ?.
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It's not your fault.

I will stand behind my original point though, the new 125's are not designed to be fast machines.
They are made to be learner bikes, small, cheap, and easy to ride. It makes it easier for people to get started in riding.

If you want speed from a 125 buy an RS, I think there's one for sale in Ireland that was clocked at 138mph during the Ulster GP last year.

Edit: Found it.
 
Smoke&Slide
I am really sorry this has happened, i didn't intend to let it go this far.Would it be a good idea for this thread to get deleted or not ?.
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Don't be sorry. You are actually 100% correct.
Beepop just cannot stand that someone with fact based experience that numbers in the decades over his few years riding is actually telling him he is full of BS.

Bopop4
It's not your fault.

I will stand behind my original point though, the new 125's are not designed to be fast machines.
They are made to be learner bikes, small, cheap, and easy to ride. It makes it easier for people to get started in riding.

If you want speed from a 125 buy an RS, I think there's one for sale in Ireland that was clocked at 138mph during the Ulster GP last year.

Edit: Found it.
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You are 100% incorrect.

50cc, 125cc, 250cc and even 400cc 2 strokes of yaw where specifically engineered designed and built to comply with learner laws, stepped license laws and even insurance capacity restrictions in force in Japan and many other countries in the 1980's and 1990's. Didn't you ever wonder where the odd capacity sizes originated? They did not just happen to appear.

IOW chap - the 125cc 2t and 125cc 4t WAS designed for learners.

The 250cc 2t and 250cc 4t WAS designed for 2nd tier license graduates etc.

You are wrong.

Period.

Game over.

Done.

In contradiction to what you think you know, those that learned to ride on 125cc 2t (and even 250cc 4t) bikes of the past actually became better and more masterful riders because of the bikes they learned on.

I have never in all my years on the Intardwebs (and again my presence on the Intardwebs predates your birth) come across someone that is so adamantly incorrect on pretty much every facet of a particular subject (well I will give you a few points for actually being a motorcycle rider.)

I literally have forgotten more about small capacity bikes from the 80's and 90's than you even knew existed on the subject.

Add to that my library of magazines, books, parts manuals and original brochures covering the subject of 2t and 4t small capacity sport bikes from the 80's and 90's - consider yourself called on the subject of this thread.

Again - the OP is correct in his assessment that modern 4t 125cc and other small capacity modern bikes are dogs compared to their 1990's counterparts. And we are talking about fully warrantied showroom stock production bikes from the 80's and 90's. Bikes that delivered superb reliable daily transportation for hundreds of thousands of people.

Hell even the 1989 4t CBR250RR was 20kg (40lb) lighter and 20bhp up on power than the current CBR250R. And yes, it was specifically sized and scaled to comply with stepped learner and insurance and government mandated capacity steps.

Thanks and be sure to come again.
 
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I have refrained from joining this argument, because I do believe you are right about some aspects of this issue, although direct comparison is mostly futile due to differing emissions regulations and purposes... so the debate could go either way.

However, words like basement dwellers and intardwebs do not contribute to a fruitful argument. Keep it civil, please. While we do have a policy that encourages people to not post falsehoods, we also have one that encourages them to not be abusive.

Thank you.
 
Anybody wanna go over to the photography board and start a Canon/Nikon fight? :D

The whole 2-stroke/4-stroke argument is just goofy. You want to ride a 2-stroke, have at it. Don't tell me it's better "just because." And don't tell me it's better because you get more power from smaller displacements. That's kinda what power on every turn does for you. A 125 2-stroke has a completely different purpose from a 125 4-stroke. Why compare them at all?!?!?!

As for "absurd legislation," I'm rather fond of having invisible air where I live. I was flabbergasted by the views over the Indian Formula One racing a few years ago!!! People walk around in that?!?!??! And suck it into their lungs?!??!?!!! So if a 2-stroke can burn cleanly, I'll take a look at it. Until then I'll stay with my big 4-stroke, coming up on 100,000 miles, and I've never had to take the crank out or anything!!!!! :lol:

Oh, yeah.... management. Modern 4 strokes are superior because they have better engine and fuel management than older 2 strokes??? Well, duh! But just say that 2-strokes continued to this day in top-tier racing--- I'd like a show of hands of everyone who believes they would not be under similar electronic management systems, and thus just as much improved over time.
 
wfooshee
Oh, yeah.... management. Modern 4 strokes are superior because they have better engine and fuel management than older 2 strokes??? Well, duh! But just say that 2-strokes continued to this day in top-tier racing--- I'd like a show of hands of everyone who believes they would not be under similar electronic management systems, and thus just as much improved over time.
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The issue was moreso that a four stroke is inherently easier to ride than a two stroke due to the power delivery and power curve.

Anything will benefit from advanced electronics, but it's just easier to ride a 200hp four stroke vs a 200hp two stroke when they have the same electronics rules.

Plus in the early 2000s they did have 500s and 1000s together in the GPs, but the 1000s proved to be much more tractable.




I find that even with my KTM dirtbike tuned for a wide powerband in the woods, it is still very peaky and relatively hard to put the power down when compared to a 450 with much more power.
 
Anyone who has any real experience with both machines will no argue with what Bopop just pointed out.
 
A 2 stroke is not peaky by nature. A 2 stroke is only peaky when you ask it to produce the same or more power than a 4 stroke double its capacity. Of cource a 450 4 stroke will stomp a 250 stroke. As will 1000cc 4 stroke vs a 500 2 stroke.

Take a 250 4 cylinder 4 stroke from say a cbr250rr and compare it to a aprilia rs250. The 2 stroke monsters the 20000rpm gutless 4-stroke in every way.

If you want an example of a grunty 2 stroke take a cr500 motor, that will out stomp any 4stroke equivalent at the same engint size.

cc per cc in terms of performance 2 stroke wins, ask Honda they tried to race a 4 - stroke gp bike the same cc as the 2-strokes and got smoked.
 
PAPPACLART
A 2 stroke is not peaky by nature.
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They are because of expansion chambers, you can't have a pipe work perfectly over the whole rpm range.


A CR500 may have more peak power than say a KXF450, but the 450 can actually put that power to the ground more effectively than the 500. The vibrations from a 500 will rattle your arms from your sockets as well.
That isn't going to stop me from looking for a KX500 for desert racing though.:P


At small displacements yes, the output of the 2 stroke outweighs the drawbacks, but when you're putting down 150hp the extra power isn't going to matter when it comes on too strong. (The Honda GP bike from back then was a mess, it being a 2 stroke wouldn't have helped any.)
 
PAPPACLART
A 2 stroke is not peaky by nature. A 2 stroke is only peaky when you ask it to produce the same or more power than a 4 stroke double its capacity. Of cource a 450 4 stroke will stomp a 250 stroke. As will 1000cc 4 stroke vs a 500 2 stroke.

Take a 250 4 cylinder 4 stroke from say a cbr250rr and compare it to a aprilia rs250. The 2 stroke monsters the 20000rpm gutless 4-stroke in every way.

If you want an example of a grunty 2 stroke take a cr500 motor, that will out stomp any 4stroke equivalent at the same engint size.

cc per cc in terms of performance 2 stroke wins, ask Honda they tried to race a 4 - stroke gp bike the same cc as the 2-strokes and got smoked.
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:lol:
 
Hi guys, i've got another opportunity to buy a bike.This time it apparently looks to be a very rare Honda RS500 road bike from the 1980's.It has a 500cc V3 configured engine and is a stroker.Looks similar to Freddie Spencers GP bike.Never been raced, it has been in bits in a friend of a friends garage for about 20 odd years.Would be cool to ride on the roads, but ofcourse i doubt i'd get spares for it.
 
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Smoke&Slide
Hi guys, i've got another opportunity to buy a bike.This time it apparently looks to be a very rare Honda RS500 road bike from the 1980's.It has a 500cc V3 configured engine and is a stroker.Looks similar to Freddie Spencers GP bike.Never been raced, it has been in bits in a friend of a friends garage for about 20 odd years.Would be cool to ride on the roads, but ofcourse i doubt i'd get spares for it.
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I've never heard of an RS500, I'm guessing you mean the NS500. (Same thing but older.)

They never made an NS500 for the road, but they did make an NS400 which is road legal.

Spares would be hard to come by, but it would be a very unique bike, I don't know anyone around here that has one.
 
No there is an RS500 ( google is your friend ), it's the customer version of the NS500R.People raced at national level with them.I found the RS500 in one of my books.I'm not sure on the model of the one i am thinking of buying.But the guy who want's to build it up again said it's an NS500R road bike.Also said it was one for the American market.
 
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There are three bikes from Honda you might not know about Bopop4.These are :

Honda RS500
Honda R500R from 1984
Honda NS500R road bike ( this i want to see ).
 
Smoke&Slide
There are three bikes from Honda you might not know about Bopop4.These are :

Honda RS500
Honda R500R from 1984
Honda NS500R road bike ( this i want to see ).
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The RS is a race bike, they never made a street legal version.
And I can't find any info on the other two so I'm assuming they don't exist.

The closest you're going to get to one of those bikes is an NS400. The other option would be to make an RS250 street legal but it wouldn't be a daily bike. Just something to have fun on.
 
Smoke&Slide
Hi guys, i've got another opportunity to buy a bike.This time it apparently looks to be a very rare Honda RS500 road bike from the 1980's.It has a 500cc V3 configured engine and is a stroker.Looks similar to Freddie Spencers GP bike.Never been raced, it has been in bits in a friend of a friends garage for about 20 odd years.Would be cool to ride on the roads, but ofcourse i doubt i'd get spares for it.
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Just thought I'll chime in on this. I've got a 1989 Honda NSR250R. New parts/ex stock are getting increasingly hard to find/locate and that's for a production model.
 
Hi guys, disappointing news the guy thinks the bike is worth alot of money and won't sell it.Shame.It was a genuine NS500R road bike that was built for the American market.So that's probably where you will find them.Show us a pic if ever you buy one.
 
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