WRC champions personal car collection

[OwensRacing]

Listen Famine. I build things everyday. Pour sweat and years into racing cars over the years.

You are a watcher. I am a doer. As a doer. I tell you your perspective is messed up.

Maybe get your hands dirty and come back and talk to me.

Or continue to argue your point. One In Which is driven purely from jealousy and anger.

My opinion. Don't like it? Keep yours to yourself then.



Wait you mentioned I've never had anything worth loving? I think you got this twisted. You have never had anything worth owning. Which makes sense why you are bitter and projecting.

I have had some cars I've loved for then people. Then again I've invested obscene time and efforts into them. Did they sit. Nah. I drove them. However would I want a few of them back to park and have forever. Sure thing.

Again. You lack experience and I mean this respectfully.



With all sincerity I think your opinion today will change with time. Prob never know. Not would I think you admit to it. None the less my opinion ha been stated. No point in responding.

 

[Famine]

Listen Famine. I build things everyday. Pour sweat and years into racing cars over the years.

You are a watcher. I am a doer. As a doer. I tell you your perspective is messed up.

Maybe get your hands dirty and come back and talk to me.

Go you.

I did just tell you to learn to discuss the point and not the people making it. Largely because it's good practice in debating, but also because ignoring the point and going after the people makes you look phenomenally petty and, when you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, quite foolish. I see you've chosen to ignore this (again - your profile indicates that you've been told this before) and you've managed just that.


As a "doer", would you rather someone got you to build a great machine that they never, ever, ever used and just put on a pedestal and watched, or would you prefer that the effort you put into getting it right saw fruition?

Or continue to argue your point. One I. Which is driven purely from jealousy and anger.

Implying emotions on someone expressing none is also an unsound debating tactic. Colour me shocked. Coming from someone who's waded into a thread only to express their personal opinions of someone else rather than discuss like an adult, I'd suggest you look at your own motivations for commenting rather than deciding you know what everyone else's are.

My opinion. Don't like it? Keep yours to yourself then.

I'm expressing an opinion on a topic. YOU are expressing an opinion on me. I suggest you stop.

Wait you mentioned I've never had anything worth loving?

Nope. What I did was point out the foolhardiness of arrogantly assuming you know everything about someone's life and then passing comment and judgement on it. You don't seem to have noticed how unwise this is, as you are persisting.

I think you got this twisted. You have never had anything worth owning.

Once again you've decided you know enough about my existence to pass comment and judgement on it...

You have literally no idea what you are talking about, but you still insist on commenting on it.

Discuss the topic, not the people making it. You have been told before. You will not be told again.

 

[OwensRacing]

Ummm sir. You TOLD me I never had anything worth loving. YOU Took this to a different level.

Please re-read.


I came in as a person that has built cars and still builds many parts for cars. Giving my perspective as a builder.

If it not welcomed by you. So be it.

Now my opinion is that you will have a different outlook in time.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I think this discussion should have its own thread its kinda taken the main point of the thread out of the window. Whilst it is certainly interesting discussion it should have its own thread.

The collection meanwhile, staggering, the photos are very beautifully done as well. Wouldn't mind seeing some of those at desktop resolution!

 

[Dennisch]

Go you.



As a "doer", would you rather someone got you to build a great machine that they never, ever, ever used and just put on a pedestal and watched, or would you prefer that the effort you put into getting it right saw fruition?

For a rare racing car, they probably have been used, and now get their well deserved rest, although sometimes they need to give a demonstration.

For a road car, with at least a 1000 built, no, they need to be used, not bought and stored forever.

 

[Famine]

Ummm sir. You TOLD me I never had anything worth loving. YOU Took this to a different level.

You waded in to insult me and tell me how little I knew and how little experience I have with no reference point whatsoever. I pointed out to you the stupidity of making wild statements without any knowledge of what you were talking about.

You know nothing of my existence. It is irrelevant to this thread and you will refrain from commenting on it. If you cannot discuss a point without insulting the people making it, you do not belong on this site.

For a rare racing car, they probably have been used, and now get their well deserved rest, although sometimes they need to give a demonstration.

For a road car, with at least a 1000 built, no, they need to be used, not bought and stored forever.

All rally cars are road legal - they had to be driven between stages on the public road.

 

[Dennisch]

All rally cars are road legal - they had to be driven between stages on the public road.

That's not my point, although I knew that.

I mean that the cars are simple to rare to race them as they used to, maybe an appearance on Goodwood could go, but going all out hardcore rally just isn't justified for an old car, unless there are warehouses full of original parts.

But still, I get your point.

 

[Famine]

I'm going to buy an RS200 from one of these people (probably not Juha). And I'm going to daily drive it.

 

[Dennisch]

I'm going to buy an RS200 from one of these people (probably not Juha). And I'm going to daily drive it.

Rally spec? Then I will buy a plane ticket, put on a helmet, and ask you to give me the keys. I will make sure I have insurance.

 

[OwensRacing]

Actually. I enjoyed your perspective. While I didn't completely agree. I do see your point.



Guess I tried to share experience with you. You taking as a personal agenda.

Allow me to apologize and please do note. I think your an intelligent person. I respect you on several levels.

With that just know I don't mean ill intent.

So before this gets twisted anymore. Let's walk away with two differing opinions and respect each other for that.

 

[Famine]

Rally spec? Then I will buy a plane ticket, put on a helmet, and ask you to give me the keys. I will make sure I have insurance.

I'll let you read pace notes?

 

[OwensRacing]

I'll let you read pace notes?

Now that is funny. Right turn 500 feet. Errr I mean left, Left, LEFT MAN!

 

[Dennisch]

I'll let you read pace notes?

Deal. But after that, you read them. I have experience with driving in overpowered cars.

 

[Ibonibo]

Ask yourself the question:
If you could all have these cars or other iconic cars, would could you drive them daily, knowing how much they are worth and will be worth in the future. And could you drive them all, all the time?
Some cars have serious shortage in original parts, therefor they aren't driven anymore or rarely.
It sounds like jalousy and whinning like a little boy. "weeee, he won't drive them, what an a**, I would drive it all day,...."

I just don't get this (off)topic.
If all the 20's 30's car where driven and not kept in a barn, we wouldn't have those nice cars now.
And having a 50-60 year old car, in perfect condition, without body repairs and the original factory paintjob still on, is unpayable.
jalopnik had an articel about an old volvo I think with original 75km on it and 60 years old.
I am thankful to those people that "forgot" the car in the barn.
Otherwise nobody would drive vintage cars anymore.

And what's the problem with a car beeing an investement?
If you're a car nut that is way more interesting investement than stocks, cfd,...

I for one hold very high those collectors because they conserve automobile treasures for the next generations.

In switzerland there is a guy who only buys Lambos, and only the most rare one. And for one purpose only : Art pieces, not driven at all, and he doesn't sell any, even for more money than they are worth (he probably got enough). It surley hurts they are not driven, but at least, generations to come will still know what a diablo is!

 

[Famine]

Ask yourself the question:
If you could all have these cars or other iconic cars, would could you drive them daily, knowing how much they are worth and will be worth in the future. And could you drive them all, all the time?
Some cars have serious shortage in original parts, therefor they aren't driven anymore or rarely.
It sounds like jalousy and whinning like a little boy. "weeee, he won't drive them, what an a**, I would drive it all day,...."

If it was jealousy, I'd hate everyone that bought an expensive car. Hell, I'd just hate rich people. I don't - if it weren't for rich people, these cars wouldn't have even existed in the first place. Not least of which because there wouldn't have been any money to make them, nor a market to buy them...

Incidentally, I'm not massively sure that "shortage of parts" is a terrific argument against a multimillionaire, able to afford to have entirely new parts fabbed from scratch, driving a rare car... It doesn't seem to stop Jay Kay, Chris Evans or Ralph Lauren driving them...

Deal. But after that, you read them. I have experience with driving in overpowered cars.

I'll let you meet my wife. I won't necessarily permit you a turn...

 

[Dennisch]

I'm sorry, if I fly across the pond for a car, I'm gonna drive the car!

 

[homeforsummer]

I think a similar discussion came up recently in another thread (I forget which) about a completely one-off, Ford concept car from the 1970s.

I said I'd happily drive it on the road, if I could afford to buy it in the first place. The same applies here, I reckon. If you can afford something with that much value, then you can afford to repair it should it be involved in an unfortunate incident.

I don't necessarily agree that they should still be thrashed on rally stages, but they should at least be driven, and seen.

Famine - FYI, Ford has an immaculate RS200 on its heritage fleet. I've not even slightly got a good enough reason to drive it (beyond Ford's own events - I'm keeping my eyes open...) but the good news is that it does get used, if not thrashed. Richard Porter (EVO, sniffpetrol, TG script editor) did a feature on it in EVO a year or two back.

 

[Famine]

Excuse. Make one. I'll read pace notes.

I'm sorry, if I fly across the pond for a car, I'm gonna drive the car!

You know I only live a DFDS ferry ride away from you, right?

 

[Dennisch]

Yeah, the small pond, not the big one. But, I also know that you are going to the other side of the big pond in the future, so it would still work.

 

[Ibonibo]

If it was jealousy, I'd hate everyone that bought an expensive car. Hell, I'd just hate rich people. I don't - if it weren't for rich people, these cars wouldn't have even existed in the first place. Not least of which because there wouldn't have been any money to make them, nor a market to buy them...

Incidentally, I'm not massively sure that "shortage of parts" is a terrific argument against a multimillionaire, able to afford to have entirely new parts fabbed from scratch, driving a rare car... It doesn't seem to stop Jay Kay, Chris Evans or Ralph Lauren driving them...

Thank you for noticing the "sounds like", and taking it the right way.

With the parts, that's alright if it is not a very rare car, but as an extreme exemple, the bugatti atlantic:

If you need to replace an original part with a new one, that would be bad for the car, the price,...

That's what I meant with the original parts on very rare car, sure that a Ford mustang or a volvo amazon that doesn't matter at all (well it does but it isn't a huge factor).

 

[Famine]

Oooh, the numbers-matching crew* might be on your case with that comment.


*If you haven't encountered them, these are people for whom having only the original part as fitted at the factory matters - no pattern parts, no upgrades and even no OE replacements unless it's from the same batch number (and even that gets a sneer). Numbers-matchers are the antithesis of the car enthusiast - they have massive knowledge of part codes, but no feel or desire for the machine as a whole.

 

[Dennisch]

Oooh, the numbers-matching crew* might be on your case with that comment.


*If you haven't encountered them, these are people for whom having only the original part as fitted at the factory matters - no pattern parts, no upgrades and even no OE replacements unless it's from the same batch number (and even that gets a sneer). Numbers-matchers are the antithesis of the car enthusiast - they have massive knowledge of part codes, but no feel or desire for the machine as a whole.

I've met those. They rather see a car with a hole in the engine block with matching numbers, then a driving one. Silly people.

 

[Pupik]

Oooh, the numbers-matching crew* might be on your case with that comment.

Yes, they're the ones who played with toys that still had their original wrapping and packaging on it.

 

[Ibonibo]

^Yeah but matching number reach higher selling prices as do unwrapped collectors toys.
Nothing to do with crew as insurance and experts respect that point to, even with a relative high ponderation.
The same way you can "tune" your car with a hellofalot of money and still not increase it's selling price.
The more original it is the higher the price.

 

[OwensRacing]

Oooh, the numbers-matching crew* might be on your case with that comment.

*If you haven't encountered them, these are people for whom having only the original part as fitted at the factory matters - no pattern parts, no upgrades and even no OE replacements unless it's from the same batch number (and even that gets a sneer). Numbers-matchers are the antithesis of the car enthusiast - they have massive knowledge of part codes, but no feel or desire for the machine as a whole.

I gave this bit of advice to a friend looking to buy a 1993 Mustang Cobra. I asked him if he was leaving it stock? Nope. I suggested he get a LX Hatch or GT and do the Cobra body kit then mod it till he is happy. Taking a stock low production car and hacking on it for speed is financial irresponsible when you can have a perfectly good clone that doesn't deface the value with modding.


All this fabbing new parts if others break. Why not just build clones of the originals?

Maybe a niche market for some fab shops.

With out originals you have no clones.

Preservation of history. If you wanna drive one cough the coin and replicate it with a clone. One in which has not heritage or history.

What's funny, I won't own a car that you can't drive or is financial suicide to drive. However I am glad we have people preserving these.

Ok this been a great discussion really. Cause I personally never seen anyone that had Famines perspective.

 

[Timppaq]

This thread makes me like Juha even more than I did before. 👍

 

[Famine]

You do his accounts too?

^Yeah but matching number reach higher selling prices as do unwrapped collectors toys.

Similarly, an unplayed-with toy is a toy no child has ever had fun with. That's even more depressing - and I agree with James May on that one:

Skip ahead to 4'52, or click here​

 

[Timppaq]

You do his accounts too?

No, wouldn't know how to. You on the other hand should be suitable for that job.

 

[Famine]

But you showed such an interest in mine! Accountancy's not my thing anyway. You should try some of your outlaw mates though - the creativity is amazing, particularly when it comes to benefits.

Got anything to add to the thread, or are you still looking to randomly start on me (you know, despite the PM to my wife) for a grudge you hold with me for no reason from 2008? I "suggest"* you take it to PMs if it's the latter.

*Not a suggestion

 

[Azuremen]

Ok this been a great discussion really. Cause I personally never seen anyone that had Famines perspective.

Well, I pretty much have to agree with Famine as well. There isn't much point in just having something a team of engineers labored over, so that it could be drove hard and go fast, sit behind a rope. Does absolutely nothing for me. I've never understood my friends that are like "look at this picture of me next to this car in a museum, behind ropes." Does absolutely nothing for me, and honestly, as a person who once studied engineering, pains me to see these creations just sitting there. You could easily just made a plastic shell, put an interior in it, and let it sit there and no one would be any wiser.

Collecting things and not using them at all for their intended use just kind of confuses me. Like people that collect M:TG cards but never play them, or the people that never drive cars they collect in GT games, etc.

Oh, and OwensRacing, you are particularly good at insulting people that you are addressing, rather than actually talking about the point they are trying to make. It isn't just Famine that feels that way.