Wrong to Race Aggressively?

[phil bell]

Knocking someone wide and then nipping up the inside, ala BTCC, is dirty in my book.

Exactly, thats why I only watch it occasionally. Taps are ok though.

 

[VBR]

Is it wrong to race aggresively? It depends on the situation! If you've just entered a casual Open Lobby called; "Dirty Drivers Only", then no of course it's not wrong. But, if you're racing in an official GT Planet event that asks participants to race according to the OLR, then yes it would be wrong. And, if you're racing in an organised event here on GT Planet that doesn't stick to the OLR, but instead encourages BTCC style nudge & pass overtakes, then some aggression wouldn't be wrong.

Personally, I've never joined a dirty online room & never would, I try to drive as cleanly as my ability allows (see my sig). However, if some online random wants to play hard ball & is hell bent on introducing me to the wall or gravel trap at every available opportunity, then I might just return in kind! That said, I'd never retaliate against a fellow clean driver I knew, as any contact would be merely a mistake.

 

[Flaco13]

You didn't read my first post regarding my league or I did simply fail to point out the conection between both my posts.

... In my league, not all of us have the talent, unfortunately
but we try to do the best we can to avoid collisions, sometimes, especially on narrow tracks like Monaco (Cote d'azure), it just happens and afterwards discussions begin on who's to blame... but later we all agree that "that's racing"...

Highlandor
We don't race by GTP olr either, you, or no-one else has to to be clean.

2 general rules about 'clean' racing:

1) NO contact.
2) 2 wheels on track at all times (i.e no cutting corners or running wide with all 4 wheels off track).

So in answer to your question - no, that video isn't clean racing.

Contact in virtually every corner, corner cutting and running outside what's generally and usually considered the track 'boundaries'.

Anyone driving like that in website Vs website racing, competitions like "Fusion" or at many other websites - they'd be kicked out in an instant...

Avoiding contact all-together is very difficult, there will always be contact in motor racing, bth real and online racing. It's the likelihood of contact owing to the driving attitudes of those taking part that makes a difference.

In that video, the drivers are not trying to avoid contact or keep within boundaries, compare this to a group of drivers who are trying to avoid contact and giving each other room and you'll see an obvious difference.

Ok, what was I thinking. No that isn't clean racing indeed. We probably won't ever manage to create a fully clean race because there is a pretty big difference in talent/training or simply ability in between the participants. In the very video I see car Nr.88 to be the main problem (note how car No.22 at the end of the 1st part struggels with the orange one, wich is no.88, but 22 definately tries to avoid contact, 88 just shows no consideration at all IMO), I could show you position fightings between some of the 'better' drivers where the fight ends through an overtake without any contact involved.

I concur:tup: At the same time, what is acceptable is determined by the Race Director, not us. I believe the point of this thread is to establish that really clean racing is possible if you want it to be, but it's not mandatory. You do what makes you happy in race series, not what someone tells you is the "right" thing, me included...lol..

Exactly, and since we don't want to descriminate or even abandon anybody in our league, the Race Director should not consider to strenghten the rules, well not yet.

However I will suggest him, based on this discussion, to deeply discuss the topic of 'consideration'!

You guys helped me out Thank you

 

[Johnnypenso]

kudos to you and the guys in your league 👍

This is how it should be done!

In my league, not all of us have the talent, unfortunately
but we try to do the best we can to avoid collisions, sometimes, especially on narrow tracks like Monaco (Cote d'azure), it just happens and afterwards discussions begin on who's to blame... but later we all agree that "that's racing"
Anyway kudos to this and may people who watch your video make up their minds and realize that GT5 is not about this:

Man, seriously, if everyone thought like you did, we'd have no problems with online racing. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone, ever, in dozens of threads like this one, been truly honest and admitted they don't have the talent to race perfectly squeaky clean but you do the best you can and discuss it afterwards. That's brilliant..no joke!!! Not everyone can race like Highlandor's group. It takes a lot of skill and practice to get to that level and not all of us have the time or innate skill to get there, but we still want to race competitively with like minded people and we can all do that so long as we are honest about our shortcomings and don't go around pretending our 🤬 don't stink .

Is it wrong to race aggresively? It depends on the situation! If you've just entered a casual Open Lobby called; "Dirty Drivers Only", then no of course it's not wrong. But, if you're racing in an official GT Planet event that asks participants to race according to the OLR, then yes it would be wrong. And, if you're racing in an organised event here on GT Planet that doesn't stick to the OLR, but instead encourages BTCC style nudge & pass overtakes, then some aggression wouldn't be wrong.

Agreed 100%. I checked out your link in your sig about the Good Racecraft Guide. Well done 👍👍 Captures 99% of my approach to online racing from the beginning. Everyone should read it so I'm posting the link here:

[post=4888688]VBR's Good Racecraft Guide[/post] ​

 

[D-Max]

I don't see anything wrong with racing aggressively, but I don't consider nudging and paint trading racing aggressively, I see this as dirty.

I'm like everyone else, I go mad when I get taken out, but as long as the driver didn't or doesn't do it consistently, it's a racing accident to me.

Racing aggressively is most commonly deemed as nosing your car in gaps that you shouldn't, driving on someone's bumper as you try to find a passing opportunity, consistently brake late in to every turn on the inside where you are not welcome, forcing a driver not off the track boundaries but off of their line. These things I can live with.

What I can't abide is people nudging me under braking, pushing me off my driving line, weaving, trading paint and all round bad etiquette. This is deemed as dirty..

 

[Denilson]

The fact that the OP is bringing this up, and are having problem with the other guys in the room at numerous occations is probably proof enough he's not driving clean.

There's a simple process to proove you're worthy (if you join a random lobby).
1. Race super clean. Appologize for small taps <- Indicates to the others that you know how to drive.
2. Once you've gained the other guys trust, you can start pushing it.

Like in my case, if I enter a random lobby, I always show respect.
If you show respect, you'll get it back. If you don't get the respect back -> leave the lobby, it won't end up in good races.
If you show respect, earn it, and get treated with respect, you're likely in for great on-line racing.
By just showing up in a lobby and start racing "aggressive" from the get go, you're not showing respect, and you'll be given none.

This is how groups work, be it in an on-line lobby, football team, or at work.
A new guy always need to show respect, get a feel for how the group deal with this or that, and start acting along the groups lines.
By beeing "agressive" on your first day at a new job, or the first practice with your new football team will get you in trouble.
The new guy always need to adjust to how the structure of the group is formed.

I rarely race with randoms though. In the group I'm racing in, we all know eachother very well, and the code of conduct among us is well founded.
And with the respect we all show eachother, there's no red mist, arguments or other forms of retaliation efforts simply cause we know that the guy who made a mistake did'nt wreck me on purpose.
This guy who wrecked me had a 40 race streak (1,5 hour races) with no incidents.

Again, in order:
1. Show respect
2. Earn respect
3. This is where it might be ok to un-intentionally bump someone or trade paint. Show respect by texting: "sry for the bump X"
4. This is where you know your on-line friends, and small taps are a "meh".
5. This is where you'll get away with causing a wreck.
However, no matter how well you know eachother, always appologize when running someone off track. -> Good manners contribute to the overall atmospare. 👍

 

[SebiRO1293]

The fact that the OP is bringing this up, and are having problem with the other guys in the room at numerous occations is probably proof enough he's not driving clean.

There's a simple process to proove you're worthy (if you join a random lobby).
1. Race super clean. Appologize for small taps <- Indicates to the others that you know how to drive.
2. Once you've gained the other guys trust, you can start pushing it.

Like in my case, if I enter a random lobby, I always show respect.
If you show respect, you'll get it back. If you don't get the respect back -> leave the lobby, it won't end up in good races.
If you show respect, earn it, and get treated with respect, you're likely in for great on-line racing.
By just showing up in a lobby and start racing "aggressive" from the get go, you're not showing respect, and you'll be given none.

This is how groups work, be it in an on-line lobby, football team, or at work.
A new guy always need to show respect, get a feel for how the group deal with this or that, and start acting along the groups lines.
By beeing "agressive" on your first day at a new job, or the first practice with your new football team will get you in trouble.
The new guy always need to adjust to how the structure of the group is formed.

I rarely race with randoms though. In the group I'm racing in, we all know eachother very well, and the code of conduct among us is well founded.
And with the respect we all show eachother, there's no red mist, arguments or other forms of retaliation efforts simply cause we know that the guy who made a mistake did'nt wreck me on purpose.
This guy who wrecked me had a 40 race streak (1,5 hour races) with no incidents.

Again, in order:
1. Show respect
2. Earn respect
3. This is where it might be ok to un-intentionally bump someone or trade paint. Show respect by texting: "sry for the bump X"
4. This is where you know your on-line friends, and small taps are a "meh".
5. This is where you'll get away with causing a wreck.
However, no matter how well you know eachother, always appologize when running someone off track. -> Good manners contribute to the overall atmospare. 👍

Agreed to everything you said Denilson. These are the rules to which I try to abide to if I join a random lobby, and almost all the time it ends well. This is what will help you get into a group of good racers and help you make some new friends on GT5 in my opinion.

After you've gained some trust among the lobby leader & his friends, then you should race aggressively as you mentioned. Your post was pretty spot on man.

 

[VBR]

The most simple & concise way of describing clean racing imo is this:


1) No deliberate contact, corner cutting, or using of run offs to gain an advantage.

2) Try your best to keep 2 wheels on track at all times, white lines mark the track boundary.

3) When rejoining the track after an incident, do so in a safe manner that will not interfere with other drivers.



👍

 

[McClarenDesign]

I race semi-aggressively (I guess you could say slightly more aggressively then some), you know, slight taps here and then taking a passing opportunity as soon as the slightest window opens. I don't race dirty, but there are time when my semi-aggressiveness gets me into trouble in clean racing rooms, or hunted down by some foreign racer. I am a courteous racer and I don't block people intentionally and I let them pass If their car has more power/torque/speed then mine, but still I get threatened by hosts occasionally. Is there anyone else out there that deals with that? Up side is, it makes the race way more exciting, but the down side is you get on peoples black list a little more quickly than others.

I'm an instructor for GTPlanet's Racing School, and am interested in sampling how aggressive you are on the track. In modern road cars, light contact is to be expected... you can't have two people fighting for the same piece of real estate without some conflict... but it's the severity of those taps and the reactions to them that often cause further problems.
I may be able to help you keep your style and aggressiveness while making you a little more tolerable towards others online.

If you're interested, I host nightly around 10p CST US. Just send me a message on the PSN, and I'll get you the room number.