WRS Week 11 Results!

[SHigSpeed]

So I went home last night and went to the Gymkhana parking lot with my S2KLM'01...

Just so we're on the same page, I left TCS at 1. ASM 0/0.

Increasing the front spring rates DEFINITELY increases oversteer. Now, let me clarify that I couldn't induce any steady state power on oversteer by just feeding gas and steering normally. I'm sure this is due to the TCS being on. I could get a nice easy spinout with TCS off with some ham-fisted provocation, but I don't consider that a valid test for oversteer.

Perhaps those of you that feel that you were able to induce more oversteer with a stiffer rear might be driving with POWER oversteer instead of chassis oversteer? Also, with MT, maybe you're using the clutch drop downshift lockup technique that drifters use to induce oversteer?

What I did get a feel for is lift throttle oversteer. Drive hard into a corner and release throttle. The stiffer the front end, the more the tail came around. DEFINITELY.

I haven't until now used the Gymkhana lot to chassis tune but I believe I will from now on. I like how it has the slalom and skidpad set up. Too bad the timing and replay functions don't work...

The swaybars do act as expected, stiffer rear = more oversteer, but it is a very subtle effect, but perhaps this is because of the relatively high springrates I was chosing therefore the relative increase in roll stiffness, even at max setting, was not enough to significantly shift anything. I may go and reset the springs low front low rear and then play with the swaybars which should magnify the effect of the bars.

I did notice that it seems as if the squat/dive modeling of the springrates is correct though. Stiff front soft rear tended to squat a lot on hard accel but didn't dive hard in braking, but the opposite was true with soft front stiff rear. It is MY OPINION that though they modeled the physical reactions of the car correctly based on the tuned spring rates, the handling results are backwards for this car on this day.

I did play with the dampers a bit and it seems as if classic tuning philosophy does apply, however, again, it was very subtle. Basically, the main tuning knob for handling balance seems to be the springs.

-Scott

 

[KLR142]

The stiffer the front end, the more the tail came around. DEFINITELY.

That kinda pisses me off... Considering that a stiffer front spring would reduce weight transfer to the front... Oh well.


I GREATLY appreciate you taking the time to go and do this, and am very happy to hear your results. It will help me with my tuning in the future. Once again, thanks a bunch man!!!!

 

[Kent]

My questions are...

ShigSpeed,
Why did you not come out with all this tech knowledge during the week?

Next,
Why was I able to do such a good lap (top 10 placing) with such "horrible" settings?
(no one said they were "horrible," but they certainly go against everything SHigSpeed's mech engineering degree has told us)

Soft springs, low camber, high bound/rebound... OH MY!

btw, this screen shot is for old geezer.

 

[KLR142]

Mad skillz! Duh! lol, good job man! And maybe they suited your style...?

 

[SHigSpeed]

My questions are...

ShigSpeed,
Why did you not come out with all this tech knowledge during the week?

Next,
Why was I able to do such a good lap (top 10 placing) with such "horrible" settings?
(no one said they were "horrible," but they certainly go against everything SHigSpeed's mech engineering degree has told us)

Soft springs, low camber, high bound/rebound... OH MY!

btw, this screen shot is for old geezer.

All the answers are there, man!

Low camber: Honda engineered short-long arm suspension with superior camber curve that requires little static camber to work well.
High bound makes up for soft springs, and high rebound is always good in my opinion.
I think the only way you were able to get away with such soft spring rates (even with the high dampers) was your relatively high ride height.
Finally, the one setting that doesn't show up in the toolbox menu is GOOD DRIVING. I think this one always helps.

If you get a chance, try my setup and see if you get anywhere near your ghost. My setup is closer to that of at least two of the guys that beat you this week that yours so that may be telling as well!

-SHig

 

[Kent]

Well, I guess it comes down to this...
After all I have seen in this thread, this is all that needs to be said.

Well, I have degree in Mechanical Engineering

I must admit though, for some reason I thought that in real life softer springs = more grip.

Oh, and I tried settings like everyone else used this week and it never worked for me.

I tried a few different settings and along the way tested something very similar to what Shigspeed and holl01 have posted... It never worked for me.

Guess I will just have to stick with what I make work.

Of course, one thing I never mentioned in the week 11 thread was that in week 32 (the cote S2000 wrs race from way back when) was my first ever overall win.

To achieve it what did I do?
Used low camber settings and custom settings on all the other parts.

Oh well, the days I my taking first place in D1 are long gone.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Been lazy, sorry for the late late replay!, its been more than 3 days and my time is still in... Just!.

Luxy better hurry or his time may be deleted

Small_Fryz .max and PAL as always

 

[Luxy]

I'll have mine up tomorrow. I've checked with CFM, and let him know it'd be a bit late. Work has been really crazy the last couple of weeks

EDIT: Here's my replay

 

[SHigSpeed]

Yo Kent,

I tried your settings, and TTYTT, I think I could easily go as fast as I did on mine on yours. I think what it comes down to is that on a given set of tires, as long as the car is balanced to match your driving style, there are probably many different ways to run the same laptimes.

Now I still need to figure out which ways to turn what knobs to gain that balance.

-Scott, BSME ;^)

 

[holl01]

i was messing around alot with my settings during the week, but i only set my car up for the purpose of driving around the track as fast as possible, and on monaco, in particular, u need alot of grip, downforce, and stability.

as soon as i decreased the ride height down to 55/60, i noticed a huge difference in the way the car handled, particularly in the first corner, and also, decreasing the LSD down to nothing was a big help also.

i think the lower you set the ride height, in turn, the higher you have to set the springrate, dampners/stabalisers, but, i wanted to induce a little bit of oversteer also, so all i did was to only raise the rear springs/dampners and stabalisers a bit, not as much as the front, meaning that the rear end of the car was looser than the front. the one thing i wasnt sure about in setting this car up was B.B, in the end i set it to 6/6, and it seemed to stop the car more suddenly, but it required more skill to do so, as u had to get it just right.

i will always offer my setup regardless of the fact that it may jepardise my chances of winning

c ya later everyone

 

[Kolyana]

holl01, you're a damned good sport and an asset to the WRS.

 

[circa86]

Hey! So what am I gonna do with the lap. I can't submit my time. Are you gonna disqualify me?

I can vouch for his laptime, I ran a lap faster than that but I scraped the wall at casino. allthough I would get first if it wasn't accepted 💡 muahahahaha!

 

[circa86]

everyone is talking about suspension settings and this and that but honestly with this car there wasn't that much time to gain with suspension. I think that this track is so precise and technical that almost every turn can result in a huge loss or gain in time. just look at turn one.