Yamauchi at DICE 2011: Gran Turismo to invoke mimesis creating Existance

[CarreraGT]

Yawn...typical, big bag of wind speech from Kaz IMO. I can't say reading this type of stuff does anything to help ease my frustrations toward PD & the GT franchise (considering how unfinished/issue plauged GT5 is)

I agree. Before GT5, I would have paid attention to stuff like this but I've since realised that its all a load of . Actions speak louder than workds Kaz, and the bottom line is GT5 is a let down, no good trying to explain it now

 

[Tenacious D]

So far, it's alweays a trade off between different games. Go from Forza to GT, and you're getting better physics, but lose the better cusomization. Go from GT to iRacing and you're getting a better overall simulation, but you're loosing the pick-up-and-play-ability... You get the idea. As long as this remains evident in the sim racing genre, there's plenty of evolution to be done, in my opinion.

In terms of racing, we have a very basic damage system that leans to visual more than anything else - though I do finally appreciate the appearance of mechanical damage. We don't have any advanced race rules (flags, multi class racing, tuning restrictions, etc). Fuel is set at one value no matter the car, proper qualification is not in the game and completely absent from A-Spec. Some tuning options present from GT1 are missing, and some rather ridiculous setting conventions have never been rectified (What does "60" mean when you set the rear wing?). There is plenty for GT to improve.

And beyond just fixing issues, there's room to innovate. I'd love to design a rear wing or undertray for my car instead of just building it....

There is so much not present in the simple driving games currently available. I agree that GT does lead overall, but it still has much room to expand. GT6 could be something ground breaking. There is that much left untapped by racers, especially the ones on consoles.

I thought I'd put these two together, since they kind of flow and play off of each other.

While taking the best bits of all racers could be seen as an evolution, I rather cringe at using that term to describe it. To me, and I think most people, a game which is evolutionary or revolutionary would have some aspects to it which advance the genre in a unique way. Not gene splice the best bits of all games, but create your own new genes.

In the serious vein of simulation racing - and setting aside Toca's rather odd, quirky merging of numerous different racing types in an arbitrary progression with storylines - I see basically that Gran Turismo and Forza have pretty much staked the unique markers in racing games.

Gran Turismo defined a genre which numerous games, to one extent or another, have been copying. It was the first, and to me and many others, still the best. And yes, even including the odd offspring, GT5. And even within this revolutionary game, it sought to drive itself forward.

• B-Spec is an interesting approach to training bots, and if you check out the techniques people have discovered in GT4, it was evidently a fairly advanced and innovative series of A.I. routines. So far, no one to my knowledge has uncovered some similar methodology to approach GT5's bots the same way, so it may be an entirely different system.
• Photo Mode was amazing, when many of us finally dug into the thing. Polyphony took the concept and gave it a trimmed down but slick photographer's lab approach to making surprisingly great looking images you could easily save to a USB drive and share online.
• In GT5, the Course Creator allowed you to expand GT5's race tracks with simple but fairly powerful tools over a variety of terrain and track types. While not as incredible as ModNation Racer's track maker, it's the next best thing and still a lot of fun to see what new challenges you can come up with.
• Even the release of official high quality racing wheels tailored to the games is rather unique in racing games.

Forza basically took the entire concept with very few changes at all. But it did bring a few unique innovations to the table.

• Forza 1 featured a trainable Drivatar, which raced according to the techniques you "taught" it by racing yourself over a series of tracks with different classes of cars.
• It included a dynamic racing line to use as a guide for every track. Being dynamic, it would adjust to your racing performance, encouraging you to increase speed if you were too slow, and warn to brake earlier if you were being too aggressive.
• Turn 10's Livery Editor was an amazingly elegant but still rather simple tool to create racing liveries, or any paint job within its capacity you could conceive of. It was so powerful that realistic portraits and album covers could be recreated to almost perfect detail.

To my estimation, these two games have staked out just about every facet of racing. I think only a few things are missing.

• Some kind of Replay Maker, which allows you to edit the camera placements and behavior of the replay cams to make your own productions.
• A good on- and offline Race Event Generator which would enable anyone to create any kind of events, from one-off races, manufacturer cups, championships, all the way to entire racing seasons.
• A proper Career Mode, which mimics the real life experience in some fashion of starting out with a sports car and entering enthusiast leagues, running all the way to whatever professional racing league you want to race in. This would involve livery designing, sponsorships, basic racing budgets and strategies, and detailed stat tracking of your progress through each season, as well as your named bot competitors. This is something I've posted about here a number of times since early 2005.
• A Season Mode, which would put you through a racing season in the league of your choice.

I know some think designing car parts or entire cars themselves would be epic, but I'll remain dubious on that until I see it properly done.

Someone is going to design a racing game including my above bullet points, and I hope it's Kaz, unveiling it in GT6. I don't think another game would quite do it justice.

 

[JJ72]

I really can't remember what GT did to redefine the genre except the fact that we can have hundreds of cars in one game, not just 20.

all the other features were done before in other games, stunt had one of the first track creator, emotional/adaptive AI were done in some alfa game/toca etc, weather change and dynamic track surface done in GP4 etc etc.

 

[Luminis]

While taking the best bits of all racers could be seen as an evolution, I rather cringe at using that term to describe it. To me, and I think most people, a game which is evolutionary or revolutionary would have some aspects to it which advance the genre in a unique way. Not gene splice the best bits of all games, but create your own new genes.

Evolution, however, is not about creating a new set of genes, per se. It's about being the fittest in a given situation.
And the situation, currently, is being the best among a lot of different sim racers with different strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I don't think evolution makes innovation a necessity; even without innovating a new feature, a game that pulls off all the good stuff we have seen so far, in a single game, would mop the floor with the competition quite easily.

I mean, think about it.
A game that gives you:
1000 cars, looking like GT5's premium cars
A level of customization along the lines of Forza
iRacing-esque physics
Dynamic weather and time on all tracks
Support for all steering wheels on the market
Highly detailes damage model, both visual and technical
Long and challanging offline single player
Deverse and well structured online mode
Headtracking
3D
Decent penalty system

It may not do anythign new, but, to me, it would become my go to game in a heartbeat.
In other terms, reinventing the wheel isn't necessary, in my opinion. Neither is inventing the engine or the chassis. Somebody should just put the best chassis, engine and wheels together to make one fine car, though.

I'd prefer that over a game that tries to innovate for innovations sake - which, in my opinion, is somethign that plagues the current generation of video games in general.
Exhibit A: Final Fantasy XIII

And Kaz's talk about mimesis sounds just like that: Innovation for innovations sake.

Someone is going to design a racing game including my above bullet points, and I hope it's Kaz, unveiling it in GT6. I don't think another game would quite do it justice.

Why? If a game contains all the good stuff, does it matter who it was made by?

 

[sk0pe]

ROFL i would say having a racing game that is in 720P 3D is just one of the things that make it pretty fu:censored: revolutionary.

Funny that shift 2 is coming out AFTER GT5 and no 3D??? After playing GT5 in 3D it's a big enough letdown when i come home from my friends and have to play it in 1080P, let alone the new games coming out not even supporting 3D.

Not too mention the premium models that won't be matched by another racing title for a long time.


Play it in 3D with surround sound and then comment,otherwise your talking without a clue.

 

[Killinator]

Play it in 3D with surround sound and then comment,otherwise your talking without a clue.

Erm.....no!

Unless 3D and surround sound add better customization, more races and better crash physics( to name just a few) then we are talking with a 'clue'.

Top notch graphics(when they come about) don't get GT off the hook, no matter how fancy your TV or speaker setup.

 

[sk0pe]

Erm.....no!

Unless 3D and surround sound add better customization, more races and better crash physics( to name just a few) then we are talking with a 'clue'.

Top notch graphics(when they come about) don't get GT off the hook, no matter how fancy your TV or speaker setup.

Oh god did you read the subject of the thread " Mimesis "

More customization on what we already have and more races is not revolutionary, nor would it invoke mimesis... You are a funny man.

When you are hotlapping the nurburgring in 720P 3D, watching the time of day change before your eyes the last thing you are thinking about is more races.Trust me on that one.

3D in a racing game is however revolutionary as it hasn't been done before. More customization is just Forza.

Like i said until you have played it in 3D then you are talking with a very un-informed opinion, Kaz's opinion of the game invoking mimesis came from the perspective of someone who was
1) Playing with a wheel
2) Playing in 3D
3) Playing with surround sound

Until you have played it with a combination of those 3 features you will never understand this mimesis nonsense he is talking about.

Edit : New games like Shift2 are also forced to have Daylight,dawn,night options as they can't replicate a smooth time of day change, yet another thing GT5 is revolutionary in.

 

[Killinator]

Oh god did you read the subject of the thread " Mimesis "

More customization on what we already have and more races is not revolutionary, nor would it invoke mimesis... You are a funny man.

When you are hotlapping the nurburgring in 720P 3D, watching the time of day change before your eyes the last thing you are thinking about is more races.Trust me on that one.

3D in a racing game is however revolutionary as it hasn't been done before. More customization is just Forza.

Like i said until you have played it in 3D then you are talking with a very un-informed opinion, Kaz's opinion of the game invoking mimesis came from the perspective of someone who was
1) Playing with a wheel
2) Playing in 3D
3) Playing with surround sound

Until you have played it with a combination of those 3 features you will never understand this mimesis nonsense he is talking about.

Edit : New games like Shift2 are also forced to have Daylight,dawn,night options as they can't replicate a smooth time of day change, yet another thing GT5 is revolutionary in.

Thats your interpretation of what this 'mimesis' thing is, not mine though,

And I have had times when I been caught in the moment in GT5, thrashing down the Mulsanne at night tearing past slower cars while flashing the lights to let them know I was coming,
It felt good, because I've been to the 24 Heures Du Mans and it had an appeal( even an emotional one at that) to me,

But those moments are often fleeting,
when your rear ended by 'dumb' computer AI that is obviously nowhere near human,
when you crash at 200KPH and drive away with a mild scrape that a bit of T-Cut could cure, theres no fear involved,
When numerous graphical glitches highlight themselves, be it spray/smoke, shadows, screen tearing, poor surroundings, etc....This immediately gets rid of the impression of realism and realistic stakes,

I play the game with 2 of the 3 things you've have listed, so I have a decent sense of what the game is like at its best,

Don't talk to me like I'm a simple minded fool because I don't agree with your point of view.

Race Driver: Grid had day/night transitions well before GT5

 

[pay2021]

My take on implementing mimesis:

1)You hit a wall at 150mph, you die. Game over, back to level 0.

2)Could possibly break the game up into eras?
Imagine you start your career in the 1940's... and progress into present day. You would be timeless yourself, but the cars would come and go. This would implement mimesis into the the life and death of a particular vehicle/era.

Otherwise, I haven't a clue.

Do you play NFS Porsche?

Race Driver: Grid had day/night transitions well before GT5

rFactor has first.

 

[Luminis]

ROFL i would say having a racing game that is in 720P 3D is just one of the things that make it pretty fu:censored: revolutionary.

So, basically, any console game at the beginning of this generation was revolutionary because it was the first in the genre that offered HD graphics?
If that's the way it... Then Forza 2 was also revolutionary for including HD graphics in the 'GRan Turismo' forumla long before GT did, right?

Funny that shift 2 is coming out AFTER GT5 and no 3D??? After playing GT5 in 3D it's a big enough letdown when i come home from my friends and have to play it in 1080P, let alone the new games coming out not even supporting 3D.

Given the amount of people that actually have 3D TVs, it doesn't sound like much of a big deal.
But I agree, GT5 in 3D is pretty impressive, even though I only had a little seat time with it. One of the local electronics warehouses used GT5 to showcase the new 3D TVs... Bravias, I think. Not the kind of stuff I'd shell a thousand bucks out for, but impressive none the less.

Anyways, the racing genre has hardly been revolutionised, at all. It has always just evolved, in my opinion. There wasn't that single game that was a quantum leap over everythign prior to it. And GT5 isn't, either. And I doubt there will ever be a game that singlehandedly does that, as far as sim racing goes.

In my opinion, very few games have ever been revolutionary. World of Warcraft is about the only recent example I can think of, turning MMORPGs from a nieche market to a major one. That's what a revolutionary game does. Not adding a feature or two to an existing formula that has been used for decades.

Edit : New games like Shift2 are also forced to have Daylight,dawn,night options as they can't replicate a smooth time of day change, yet another thing GT5 is revolutionary in.

Other games did that before, so how is it revolutionary?

/edit:
This might actually be important:
I don't think being revolutionary makes a game good by default. If a game came about that just did what has been done, but all of it and it does all of that good, I'd consider that to be a darn good game.
Better than one that tries to be innovative and misses out on good stuff that has been done before.

 

[Killinator]

rFactor has first.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say Grid was first, just that it had that feature long before GT.

 

[sk0pe]

when you crash at 200KPH and drive away with a mild scrape that a bit of T-Cut could cure, theres no fear involved,

Don't talk to me like I'm a simple minded fool because I don't agree with your point of view.

Race Driver: Grid had day/night transitions well before GT5

Thankyou for the correction on the day/night i was under the impression it was a first. My apologies.

Not talking to you like a simple minded fool because you don't agree, more for the fact that you believe adding more customization or more single player races is somehow revolutionary.

I'm more than willing to change my opinion on something when good solid points are put in front of me.

As for no fear involved, well when even the rumble strips have amazing depth in 3D ( especially when in a go kart ) then let me tell ya when you see that wall coming at 200kph in 3D it certainly does invoke some fear into you... Sometimes you wanna hit the start,restart button as soon as you get on the grass to avoid seeing it come at you.

And with mechanical damage on full then you can't just "drive away" like you claim. But then people like you would rather have it off and then complain about how you can just drive away after a high speed crash.. Look at your logic and then ask why i speak to you like a simpleton

 

[Killinator]

Thankyou for the correction on the day/night i was under the impression it was a first. My apologies.

Not talking to you like a simple minded fool because you don't agree, more for the fact that you believe adding more customization or more single player races is somehow revolutionary.

I'm more than willing to change my opinion on something when good solid points are put in front of me.

As for no fear involved, well when even the rumble strips have amazing depth in 3D ( especially when in a go kart ) then let me tell ya when you see that wall coming at 200kph in 3D it certainly does invoke some fear into you... Sometimes you wanna hit the start,restart button as soon as you get on the grass to avoid seeing it come at you.

And with mechanical damage on full then you can't just "drive away" like you claim. But then people like you would rather have it off and then complain about how you can just drive away after a high speed crash.. Look at your logic and then ask why i speak to you like a simpleton

If your getting afraid driving over rumble strips(3D or not/and yes I have done it in real life(the real 3d)....it isn't scary) then we obviously have different fear thresholds,

You hit a wall going at 200KPH in real life and you don't drive away, you get cut out of the car and put in intensive car, if your lucky!
In GT you get a damaged engine and wheels which result in the car driving sideways like a crab while stumbling through gears,
But you know the car will be better for the next race, you know the driver will 'walk it off' and you know it will cost you next to nothing to fix(an oil change here and there).

Sorry, but its gonna take more than 3D to make me think this is more than gibberish from a man who's ego has become a little too inflated for the games good!

 

[sk0pe]

If your getting afraid driving over rumble strips(3D or not/and yes I have done it in real life(the real 3d)....it isn't scary) then we obviously have different fear thresholds,

You hit a wall going at 200KPH in real life and you don't drive away, you get cut out of the car and put in intensive car, if your lucky!
In GT you get a damaged engine and wheels which result in the car driving sideways like a crab while stumbling through gears,
But you know the car will be better for the next race, you know the driver will 'walk it off' and you know it will cost you next to nothing to fix(an oil change here and there).

Sorry, but its gonna take more than 3D to make me think this is more than gibberish from a man who's ego has become a little too inflated for the games good!

I said the rumble strips having amazing depth in 3D, i never mentioned getting afraid. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though aye.
I had the nervous sign next to "go karts" , i assure you some of the rumble strips at certain tracks are about as high as half way up the go-kart wheel. Obviously i don't fear rumble strips in a GTR, don't be so silly and twist my words.

So what do you want to happen Mr Revolution once we hit a wall at 200kph? For the game to say " Sorry you have died and can no longer participate in this game " Then everytime you try to put in the disc it says " Sorry you are dead to this game, play another one " ..... give me a break.

 

[Killinator]

I said the rumble strips having amazing depth in 3D, i never mentioned getting afraid. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though aye.
I had the nervous sign next to "go karts" , i assure you some of the rumble strips at certain tracks are about as high as half way up the go-kart wheel. Obviously i don't fear rumble strips in a GTR, don't be so silly and twist my words.

So what do you want to happen Mr Revolution once we hit a wall at 200kph? For the game to say " Sorry you have died and can no longer participate in this game " Then everytime you try to put in the disc it says " Sorry you are dead to this game, play another one " ..... give me a break.

Now who's putting words in someones mouth, eh?
Kaz was the one talking about life and death, maybe hes the one to ask, but something tells me you would lap up anything he had to say regardless.

I never said you were afraid of rumble strips in your GTR, you must have imagined that bit,

And for the record I think a feature(implemented well) that had your driver injured or killed in an accident would sure as hell make drivers consider slowing down earlier for a bend,
It reminds me of Hidden & Dangerous for the PC many years ago, when a soldier died he was dead, you continued on with the men available but Wesley 'Spider' Webb was dead and gone and only a complete restart was gonna bring him back, so you better do better or find a new sniper(people who know of the game will understand who 'Spider' was and what I'm babbling about).

I AM NOT suggesting that once you die you can't play the game again, so don't try to say I did.
But YES some kind of injury/recovery or death mechanic COULD work very well and take the game in a different RPG direction seems for whatever reason its soooo desperate to be more than a racing game(though most are happy with it being 'just' a racing game).

 

[sk0pe]

Now who's putting words in someones mouth, eh?
Kaz was the one talking about life and death, maybe hes the one to ask, but something tells me you would lap up anything he had to say regardless.

And for the record I think a feature(implemented well) that had your driver injured or killed in an accident would sure as hell make drivers consider slowing down earlier for a bend,
.

The price of a chassis restore is enough to make me not want to just drive 200kph into a wall.

I never said you were afraid of rumble strips in your GTR, you must have imagined that bit

I chose GTR, pick any car you want the fact is you implied i was scared to drive over rumble strips in a regular car, completeing ignoring the fact i said it was nerveracking in a GO-KART. Be pedantic all you like, doesn't change anything.

I AM NOT suggesting that once you die you can't play the game again, so don't try to say I did

Actually you did.

a feature implemented well that had your driver injured or killed would make you slow down"

Ok so what happens once your driver is killed, he just magically comes back to life.. So yeah not being able to play the game again would be the result of dying.

Quit now, stop digging. Your clutching at straws now.

For the record it's not a "racing" game, never does it state it's a "racing simulator" . There is no race rules, no race flags etc . It is a driving game, a car enthusiasts game, it just so happens the best place to see these car's potential is at a race track.

 

[Khoin]

I haven't read the full interview, but based on the OP, I'm not impressed.

What is he actually saying? He wants games to invoke "mimesis". Does he mean that it should inspire other game developers to want to make a game like that too? Or should games copy reality? It seems he means the latter, but then what does he mean by “a certain reaction when you meet something incredible, find something new, and are infected with feverish desire to do something. What I want to do with Gran Turismo is invoke this mimesis on the audience of players.”

So he want's GT to get people to go racing for real?

Anyway, besides the point.

Whatever he means, I don't really see how he's applying any of it in GT5.

While GT5 has improvements over the previous GT games, they are basically limited to the physics engine and the graphics.

If he would want to mimic "real" racing, why not put more effort into everything that goes on in a race besides janking the wheel and stomping the pedals?

Qualification, seasons, careers, sponsorships, persistent damage, different racing leagues, etc. etc. etc. Why is damage, tire wear, wheather and fuel only "on" in a few races? I could go on but it's all been said a thousand times already...

And how does Bspec fit in here? Is it supposed to "mimic" being a race-team manager? Because if so, it fails horribly. What should it inspire in players, except for a feeling of boredom and the fear that they will wear out their PS3...

I'm all for seeing games as a medium comparable too books and movies. Sure, you can make a game that would lead you to contemplate real-life issues such as dealing with death or how to live, just like you can do with a book or a movie. However, a racing game wouldn't be my first choice for that. And if you had to do it in a racing game, I don't see how GT5 even begins to try and do that (except maybe for inspiring people to earn more money so they can buy fast cars...).

Personally, I still enjoy GT5, because it has a lot of beautiful, realistic cars that are fun to drive (especially with a wheel). However, I don't really see what Kaz adds to this game, apart from a love for cars. Reading stuff like this, I'm inclined to think that GT1 was a lucky hit and he's actually a rather mediocre game developer. GT5 still has a lot of beautiful, reallistic cars (like GT1 had for it's time) and reallistic handling (for a console game, and again, like GT1 had for it's time), however, he hasn't added anything dramatic and he's not improved anything beyond evolving along with the available hardware. Photomode, Bspec, museumcards... meh. Nice to have, but could do without them. It's not just not revolutionary, it's hardly really evolutionary... I think there's a lot of developers who could do a much better job if they had his resources...

 

[Killinator]

The price of a chassis restore is enough to make me not want to just drive 200kph into a wall.

I chose GTR, .......

just so happens the best place to see these car's potential is at a race track.

I'm sorry what are all those closed off roads doing in this driving game, and why is everyone driving as fast as possible to be number 1,
Oh yeah:idea:

They're RACING CIRCUITS and you're RACING on them!!!!

How much of the career mode is spent racing and how much is spent driving around with no specific goal, just to get a feel for the car,
seriously,
I'm not talking about what you do to have fun, I'm talking about the career mode PD have implemented in the game.

As for death, I would envision it implemented in such away that if your driver dies then you have to start from scratch with a new one....
You can still play the game but you must suffer the consequences of your actions or even the actions of others on track.

And just because you say stop digging doesn't mean I'm 'losing' this 'argument',
I don't see me clutching at straws but by all means jump ship while your sinking.
If your really struggling then I'll understand if you resort to more thinly disguised personal attacks!

 

[Luminis]

The price of a chassis restore is enough to make me not want to just drive 200kph into a wall.

I don't want to interfere with your discussion, I'd just like
to point out that the chassis restoration isn't linked to the damage you put on the car, but to it's milage. Basically, as soon as you've driven it, you've got the restoration available, at full price

 

[BWX]

I'd rather play on a 52" 1080p HDTV than play at 720p 3D. Yeah I cannot imagine playing GT5 without a home theater setup but 3D @ 720p I can live without. I'd rather have the extra resolution. What that has to do with memesis I don't know.

 

[sk0pe]

I don't want to interfere with your discussion, I'd just like
to point out that the chassis restoration isn't linked to the damage you put on the car, but to it's milage. Basically, as soon as you've driven it, you've got the restoration available, at full price

Are you positive? I would like to think in-race damage would have an effect on your chassis over time ? Or maybe i'm being wishful and delusional...
I do know that the chassis restore is availiable after you have driven your car, but doesn't have any noticeable affect if you apply it ? ( due to the chassis not being damaged? ) Please correct me if i'm wrong.

BWX - I'd rather play on a 52" 1080p HDTV than play at 720p 3D.

- Each to their own and i can see your reasoning, but have you played it in 3D ? It's a lot different than just watching a 3D movie let me tell ya.
Yes 1080p is a lot crisper and cleaner but i go home to my 46" 1080p after being at my friends who has a 42" 3D and i'm always deeply dissapointed when i go home and turn GT5 on without 3D.
I know 1080p is stunning, but 3D is one of those things where if you have never had it then your not fussed and don't really notice it, but boy oh boy once you have experienced it then you just can't settle for the regular old way. I can relate to what Kaz is saying in a strange way, playing it in 3D really get's me excited.

Killinator How much of the career mode is spent racing and how much is spent driving around with no specific goal, just to get a feel for the car,
seriously,

- You answered your own question, why have a career mode driving around with no specific goal - that's the reason for the racing tracks to give you some sense of purpose. But it's hardly a racing game without race rules,flags etc, and i'm sure that's the reason why they chose "driving" simulator rather than "racing" simulator, not because you can't race but because it doesn't simulate a race.
Shift2 however has tagged itself as the "the real racing game" so it will be interesting to see what it has to offer, i'm apprehensive but i approach it with an open mind.

 

[Luminis]

Are you positive? I would like to think in-race damage would have an effect on your chassis over time ? Or maybe i'm being wishful and delusional...
I do know that the chassis restore is availiable after you have driven your car, but doesn't have any noticeable affect if you apply it ? ( due to the chassis not being damaged? ) Please correct me if i'm wrong.

This has been discussed a few times, and the general consensus (currently) is that the only thing that affects the car's handling and therefore warrants the chssis restoration is an insane amount of milage on the car.

Basically, if you have two identical cars with the same mileage, they will perform the same. Even if car A was driven properly and car B was crashing into stuff the whole time. That's what I did to test that theory, at least.

 

[BWX]

I haven't seen it in 3D, but you'd have a hard time prying my 52" 1080p Sharp Aquos out of my cold dead hands. Especially sitting 4 feet away in my new racing rig. When 3D is 1080p, then I'll decide.

 

[tyl0r_r]

“It would make me happy to see a game that really makes you think about how a person should live and how they should come to terms with death,” - Kaz

... Make crashes more violent, and a bad one instantly deletes your save game and shuts off your PS3 .

 

[Luminis]

... Make crashes more violent, and a bad one instantly deletes your save game and shuts off your PS3 .

And make it send a 50'000 volt discharge through the game pad/wheel

 

[sk0pe]

This has been discussed a few times, and the general consensus (currently) is that the only thing that affects the car's handling and therefore warrants the chssis restoration is an insane amount of milage on the car.

Basically, if you have two identical cars with the same mileage, they will perform the same. Even if car A was driven properly and car B was crashing into stuff the whole time. That's what I did to test that theory, at least.

I'm disappointed to hear this. I hope in future update damage to your chassis will be implemented, it surely can't be there for no reason. If it's gonna cost me heaps to fix my chassis i'll think twice about letting any idiotic friends drive my $20,000,000 Jag, and think twice about crashing

BWX - I haven't seen it in 3D, but you'd have a hard time prying my 52" 1080p Sharp Aquos out of my cold dead hands. Especially sitting 4 feet away in my new racing rig. When 3D is 1080p, then I'll decide.

No reason to get rid of a perfectly good Aquos just to go to 3D,they are stunning tv's but if you become best buddies with that neighbour you really hate that has a 3D tv, even just for the day, you'll come back here and thank me for it.

 

[BWX]

I have no neighbors, LOL.

 

[Killinator]

- You answered your own question, why have a career mode driving around with no specific goal - that's the reason for the racing tracks to give you some sense of purpose. But it's hardly a racing game without race rules,flags etc, and i'm sure that's the reason why they chose "driving" simulator rather than "racing" simulator, not because you can't race but because it doesn't simulate a race.
Shift2 however has tagged itself as the "the real racing game" so it will be interesting to see what it has to offer, i'm apprehensive but i approach it with an open mind.

You have a point, its a valid one,
But I don't subscribe to the defense that its a 'driving' simulator to excuse it for its faults as a 'racing' simulator,
If the majority of the game is spent racing then you need to treat it as a racing game,
Lets face it, 99% of people buy GT to race.

GT has always consisted of mostly racing, if PD are going to largely ignore the racing because its not the main aspect of the game then they need to be more inventive with events/career mode, and not put the emphasis on racing.

I am looking forward to shift 2 though, hopefully the jelly suspension and immediate oversteer is gone this time around!

 

[sk0pe]

You have a point, its a valid one,
But I don't subscribe to the defense that its a 'driving' simulator to excuse it for its faults as a 'racing' simulator,
If the majority of the game is spent racing then you need to treat it as a racing game,
Lets face it, 99% of people buy GT to race.

GT has always consisted of mostly racing, if PD are going to largely ignore the racing because its not the main aspect of the game then they need to be more inventive with events/career mode, and not put the emphasis on racing.

I am looking forward to shift 2 though, hopefully the jelly suspension and immediate oversteer is gone this time around!

One time i'll agree with ya Yeah it's not really good enough to call it the driving simulator to excuse the lack of the racing side of things, when like you point out 99% of people are playing to race.
I'm by no means a fan of the Shift or any NFS series, but i am intrigued to see what Shift2 brings to the table.

BWX - I have no neighbors, LOL.

- Ahhh the good life huh. Wish i could say the same sometimes.

 

[Killinator]

One time i'll agree with ya

I WIN Just joking, nice to not always be at loggerheads with you