Yamauchi at DICE 2011: Gran Turismo to invoke mimesis creating Existance

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Simple answer? Because other games dont offer 1000 cars? And all the little marketing stickers that come with it.
Other games still manage 400+ cars. In less than half the time. Which would amount to an equal amoutn of cars/year.

Times change evrything is harder to get now and a lot more legal work to go through. We talking about a lot fo brand recognition here.
Timees have changed a lot since 2004? You sure about that? Or rather, since 2009, when Forza 3 did the job easily?

Lawyers and marketers and developers work together and guess what...developers get the short end of the stick. It is the lawyers and marketers who run the show.
Actually, no. It's the executive producer (read: Kaz) who runs the show. The lawyers do the paper work for him on this project.

How are you supose to put something in the game if you did not have any legal work done for that car? You wasting development time making things that are going get cut.
The physics engine doesn't need a license, does it? And how about remodeling the cars that were used in Prolugue? Or do you think those licenses just expired?
I guess that's why EA still has this neat little deal with Porsche going, which dates back to NFS Porsche Unleashed :lol:

It is one reason they did not do all out dmg in game. Because companies dont want to show their brands all smashed up. Bad image and no safety friendly.
That's why the interior may not be compromised and why the car isn't allowed to stop operating completely. Doesn't explain why GT5 shows less damage than other games.

I am sure those who work in marketing brand and sales can tell you the same thing.
Tell me what? If our marketing department was working remotely similar to what you're describing, they'd be fired faster than you'd ever think :lol:
Years to get a license, yeah right :lol:
 
"I am sure he is not the man to blame"

Actually I think the blame for any deficiencies in GT5 lie squarely with Kaz. He is the visionary that determines the focus and direction of the series.

A handful of GT fans in on the early planning for the game and some beta testing could have worked wonders for the game and series. But you don't need customer input when your developing a work of art that expresses your inner vision.

Maybe Sony will begin to realize that the creative force behind the highly successful GT1,2,3, and 4, has gone off the reservation over the last six years and managed to somehow produce a sequel that is a lot less fun than its predecessors in some respects.
 
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Someone get word to Kaz - Racing games aren't that complicated. Coding competitive AI and a realistic physics model is as "complicated" as the racing genre gets. If he wasn't such an arrogant, stubborn ass, maybe he'd play something like iRacing or GTR and realize how "simple" racing can be. You don't need B Spec or Photo Mode or any of the other gimmicky features which have nothing to do with racing.

Kaz has lost it. His "vision" is nothing more than a convoluted mess.

👍
 
Other games still manage 400+ cars. In less than half the time. Which would amount to an equal amoutn of cars/year.


Timees have changed a lot since 2004? You sure about that? Or rather, since 2009, when Forza 3 did the job easily?


Actually, no. It's the executive producer (read: Kaz) who runs the show. The lawyers do the paper work for him on this project.


The physics engine doesn't need a license, does it? And how about remodeling the cars that were used in Prolugue? Or do you think those licenses just expired?
I guess that's why EA still has this neat little deal with Porsche going, which dates back to NFS Porsche Unleashed :lol:


That's why the interior may not be compromised and why the car isn't allowed to stop operating completely. Doesn't explain why GT5 shows less damage than other games.


Tell me what? If our marketing department was working remotely similar to what you're describing, they'd be fired faster than you'd ever think :lol:
Years to get a license, yeah right :lol:

I am not going to participate in this "but I know better" internet olympics.

I simply stated the obvious, before you challenge me on this topic do a little research maybe learn something new.

1 Everything requires licensing.
2 Licence period expires.
3 Every company does it differently.
4 There were few articles going back to GT2 days where GT developers and KZ explained that it is not an easy task to reserve rights to use so many cars in the game.
5 I work for marketing company so yes I know wtf I am talking about it.
6. Why NFS does it faster? I dont know EA runs half the gaming industry I am sure they can make things go faster with more money.
7. Which other games had 400 cars? Forza and? and it was in development for 2 years add another 600 cars and thats 2-3 more years.
8. Many games donot use actualy brand cars they do mock brands or look alike.
 
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Sorry Amar, but most these un-educated idiots on this thread will never understand or get anywhere near this level of deep thinking which is more or less post-graduate level thinking, they fail to understand the whole concept of Kaz actually having a life and not just making a game for their selfish desires 24/7 the rest of his life, if they saw the other businesses and projects that people like Kaz have running or are involved with, they just simply wouldn't be able to comprehend it and resort to the usual hunter-gatherer cry which requests that Kaz gives up his life for their selfish desires.

It is a great shame that brilliant thinking from Kaz is overlooked because these people have such a narrow scope to their minds.
 
Sorry Amar, but most these un-educated idiots on this thread will never understand or get anywhere near this level of deep thinking which is more or less post-graduate level thinking, they fail to understand the whole concept of Kaz actually having a life and not just making a game for their selfish desires 24/7 the rest of his life, if they saw the other businesses and projects that people like Kaz have running or are involved with, they just simply wouldn't be able to comprehend it and resort to the usual hunter-gatherer cry which requests that Kaz gives up his life for their selfish desires.

It is a great shame that brilliant thinking from Kaz is overlooked because these people have such a narrow scope to their minds.

What, is Kaz suppose to buy all 6M copies of the game sold so far himself to indulge his own desires or is he suppose to deliver on the features people actually want? It has nothing to do with his intellectualism, just his failure to compromise with reality...
 
Sorry Amar, but most these un-educated idiots on this thread will never understand or get anywhere near this level of deep thinking which is more or less post-graduate level thinking, they fail to understand the whole concept of Kaz actually having a life and not just making a game for their selfish desires 24/7 the rest of his life, if they saw the other businesses and projects that people like Kaz have running or are involved with, they just simply wouldn't be able to comprehend it and resort to the usual hunter-gatherer cry which requests that Kaz gives up his life for their selfish desires.

It is a great shame that brilliant thinking from Kaz is overlooked because these people have such a narrow scope to their minds.

Thats all nice and all, but GT5 wasn't exactly all that great. Maybe he needs to focus on one thing. Its like a your favorite professional athlete, very good at the sport he plays, but one day decides to take half the season off to write a book. As a fan, I would be pissed.
 
What, is Kaz suppose to buy all 6M copies of the game sold so far himself to indulge his own desires or is he suppose to deliver on the features people actually want? It has nothing to do with his intellectualism, just his failure to compromise with reality...

You completely missed the point I was making.

I know it's not nice, but whats even worse is the disgusting way in which you guys have come out and decided to totally piss on Kaz's concepts and theories.
 
You completely missed the point I was making.

I know it's not nice, but whats even worse is the disgusting way in which you guys have come out and decided to totally piss on Kaz's concepts and theories.

If he wants to preach on philosophical crap in game design then he can write a book on it for future game programmers... personally I'm only interested in having events with variable difficulties and restrictions and features that every other racing game since the beginning of the arcade era has had that this game completely lacks.
 
If he wants to preach on philosophical crap in game design then he can write a book on it for future game programmers... personally I'm only interested in having events with variable difficulties and restrictions and features that every other racing game since the beginning of the arcade era has had that this game completely lacks.

Well good on you if you have nothing else in life to focus on. Your point here is severely flawed, game design is like any other form of design, those who are truly great at it look at things on the deep philosophical level, how do you think games like GTA, etc. end up being so good? They don't just turn up and say "I know! I'll do this because I feel like it! And i'll add this because its sooooo coool", game design isn't just a single stand alone field like it used to be, it is now more of an amalgamation/formula of many different fields just like all the other forms of design, it's just a shame that the core of the target demographic will always fail to figure this out.
 
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Look... all I'm saying is most people expect A-spec to be a challenge and for the game economy and leveling process to be a little more straight forward. He should start with that aspect of the game and when it's perfected, implement the other features as time permits. The game as it's presented now is nothing more than a compiled mess of half initiated ideas that were never polished and lacks any distinct direction for game design that I'm aware of.

Kaz trying to be revolutionary in game design may be good and well, but GT5 is not his shining example to be placed upon a pedestal; it's more of the shining example of how not to do a racing game.
 
I Think Kaz and the team at PD should really think about making a Final Fantasy style RPG

take a brake from the gt series







Dont flame me -_-
But yea im serious.
 
Something I noticed while playing GT5 is that the devs seem to be perfectionists and are limited by technology. Personally, I am happy that they are limited by hardware in the PS3(AI, shadows) and development time(standard vs premium) rather than raw skill and creative vision.

I think a game where we just get into cars and try to drive faster than other cars would be very one dimensional(except maybe for teenagers), so I appreciate the depth that GT5 brings for a car enthusiast. I like the schwimmwagen, I like the museum cards, I do the "demo" on every car I buy to learn more about it, and I am in the apparently minority of people who thinks that the "driving around and obeying traffic laws" mode would be really great addition to the game!

I also think people are taking the life/death thing waaay out of context, I am fairly sure(didnt see the whole presentation) that he was using this as an analogy for wanting to meticulously recreate reality in his games(GT or if he does anything else), hes not saying he wants to add a perspective of death in GT...honestly thats just silly.

I am really, really glad that Kaz has this more philosophical vision for hos role in the game world. In my opinion far too many developers(especially producers!) in every area of entertainment including music, movies, and games, focus almost entirely on creating a products that lack artistic vision in order to get sales, while not really going for anything that could have a deeper involvement in the fanbases lives.

It might sound stupid, but GT has inspired be to become more of a car enthusiast, and I think that is what he was going for with the whole "mimesis" idea.
 
I've been playing GT since GT1, but I could see myself leaving the GT series if the game goes more into the direction Kaz seems to want to take it. All I'm really looking for is a racing simulator without all the BS. I don't like grinding the same race over and over to get money and "level up". I also think GT5's B-spec might be the worst thing ever. Seriously, it should just be scrapped all together.
 
Sorry Amar, but most these un-educated idiots on this thread will never understand or get anywhere near this level of deep thinking which is more or less post-graduate level thinking, they fail to understand the whole concept of Kaz actually having a life and not just making a game for their selfish desires 24/7 the rest of his life, if they saw the other businesses and projects that people like Kaz have running or are involved with, they just simply wouldn't be able to comprehend it and resort to the usual hunter-gatherer cry which requests that Kaz gives up his life for their selfish desires.

It is a great shame that brilliant thinking from Kaz is overlooked because these people have such a narrow scope to their minds.

lol, keep going man you are killing me. Being a post-graduate I assume you think my comments worthy of your attention? Why is it that the apologists always lay the blame squarely at the feet of the 'uneducated' customer? The vast majority of people who have commented in this thread have expressed their support for KY and his vision. He's entitled to dream and have in his minds eye a vision of the ultimate game. However, what most are disappointed with is this vision getting in the way of a fairly simple process, namely, making the best racing game ever made. He failed. There is no other way to put it. GT5 is not the best racing game ever made. It does some things better than any other but fails in so many other areas in can't be considered the best.

You can't expect people to not get disillusioned and angry with his words regarding what he dreams of producing when the reality of what he produces is so lacking. As others have said, talk is cheap it's actions that define us.
 
"On Gran Turismo and I.”

There's no I in team Kazunori San!



:sly:
 
They don't just turn up and say "I know! I'll do this because I feel like it! And i'll add this because its sooooo coool"

There's a great example of a developer doing that in the first post.

If you have this advanced graduate level thinking, the point should be obvious. What Kazunori is doing just sounds pointless, and it stands to take away from GT, which already isn't all that it could be.

I don't mind seeing him achieve his dream, I'd just like to get the driving sim he said he would sell me.


It might sound stupid, but GT has inspired be to become more of a car enthusiast, and I think that is what he was going for with the whole "mimesis" idea.

This is kind of the point. GT had a pretty big influence on me, it got me into cars and I haven't gotten out of cars yet. Why? Because it was a good driving sim that taught you about cars and driving. To appreciate the physics behind a vehicle in motion and the engineering behind them. If he wants to inspire people, all he needs to do is make a great sim. Adding things beyond that will just start to detract.
 
I am not going to participate in this "but I know better" internet olympics.
Seems like you're trying, though.

I simply stated the obvious, before you challenge me on this topic do a little research maybe learn something new.
Well, take your own advise, I guess.

1 Everything requires licensing.
Simply put, no. The stuff PD creates by themselves doesn't. That encompasses the whole physics engine, lighting engine, the original GT tracks, menues, network code and the like. Basically, everything besides the real world cars and tracks. Which is a pretty darn lot of things.

2 Licence period expires.
They do. However, like many other basic contracts, they can be renewed fairly easily.

3 Every company does it differently.
The legal basics licensing is based upond don't change just because a different company tries to do it.

4 There were few articles going back to GT2 days where GT developers and KZ explained that it is not an easy task to reserve rights to use so many cars in the game.
Nobody says it's easy, it just doesn't take years to do it.

5 I work for marketing company so yes I know wtf I am talking about it.
You'd better make sure your employer doesn't read what you're writing here, then.

6. Why NFS does it faster? I dont know EA runs half the gaming industry I am sure they can make things go faster with more money.
Given that Sony is a bigger company than EA, given that GT5 had a bigger budget than, well, anything, I don't see your point.

7. Which other games had 400 cars? Forza and? and it was in development for 2 years add another 600 cars and thats 2-3 more years.
What? I'm just pointing out that other games do the same amount of cars/year without getting into a lot of trouble.

8. Many games donot use actualy brand cars they do mock brands or look alike.
Doesn't matter, given the topic at hand, right?

Let's try logic shall we? If it takes four years to license all the cars, that would leave PD with 2 years at best to model them, right?
Now, Kaz states that it takes six man months to model a car. And a lot longer for the tracks, right? Does it seem likely that they spend so long before starting to model all that stuff?

Now, to prove your whole idea wrong:
If it takes four years to license the cars, how is it possible to have a 2010 car licensed? It should be completely impossible to have, say, a Tesla in the game.

There might be a company or two that drag out the negotiations, true. Ferrari and Lamborghini probably did. That doesn't mean that you can't work on the other 80% of the cars.

Well good on you if you have nothing else in life to focus on. Your point here is severely flawed, game design is like any other form of design, those who are truly great at it look at things on the deep philosophical level, how do you think games like GTA, etc. end up being so good?
A very basic design element is to match your product to the target audience.

You wouldn't start to write a huge essay on life and death only to publish it in the next issue of the weekly Mickey Mouse magazin.
If Kaz wants to dive into a deeply philosophical story, that's fine. If he feels like it, he should be making a game that does all of that.
However, Gran Turismo isn't the game to do it in.
 
I've been playing GT since GT1, but I could see myself leaving the GT series if the game goes more into the direction Kaz seems to want to take it. All I'm really looking for is a racing simulator without all the BS. I don't like grinding the same race over and over to get money and "level up". I also think GT5's B-spec might be the worst thing ever. Seriously, it should just be scrapped all together.

+1000

This is what a sim racing fan really think. Yama we just want to make you know we don't give a damn about your life/death rpg. And there's no need you tell us "hey you have to be inspired, you should think about the meaning of life" WTF is that? Seriously.

All we are looking for is a great racing simulator, you become famous with Gran Turismo The Real Driving Simulator, we became your fans for this KEEP IT IN MIND we don't even care about rpg world, life/death cycles, utopia style things, sorry to disappoint you but all we want is RACING, in the best way possible, we want a much better and deeper A-Spec Career, we want a difficoulty level to choose from, we want your team fix bugs... we want more events, the career mode use just 30% of tracks available, even the seasonal events, always the same tracks!! Deep Forest, Trial Mountain, Rome, Suzuka Tsukuba... come on! If you want we race Deep Forest and Trial Mountan the whole GT5 life give us reverse track sometimes.. and all those great GT4 tracks.. why you removed them?? El Capitan, Opera Paris, Hong Kong, New York... one thing is sure, you, Mr Kazunori, Yamauchi San, you and your team Poliphony Digital you well know how to upset people. After GT4 you smoked too much weed and these are the results..

..next time if you know what "coherency" means please change the title of your game Gran Turismo 6 The Real Life and Death RPG Simulator

We will find a new leader somewhere, somebody we are interested in creating a racing simulator without all your unnecessary BS... That's all dear Yama.
 
I've just removed a few post.

Play nice or don't play, guys.
 
Well good on you if you have nothing else in life to focus on. Your point here is severely flawed, game design is like any other form of design, those who are truly great at it look at things on the deep philosophical level, how do you think games like GTA, etc. end up being so good? They don't just turn up and say "I know! I'll do this because I feel like it! And i'll add this because its sooooo coool", game design isn't just a single stand alone field like it used to be, it is now more of an amalgamation/formula of many different fields just like all the other forms of design, it's just a shame that the core of the target demographic will always fail to figure this out.

A designer's role is to infuse that philosophy into actual gameplay, which even uneducated audience can feel it subconsciously and consciously through the game design and mechanics.

if you need to host a forum to get that philosophy across and your game design has no reflection of your concept, you fail as a game designer.

A design should speak for itself, and frankly I see none of what he mentioned in GT5.


How many of you here are also on Escapist? if you are on escapist, look at "Extra Credits", especially the latest episode, you will realize what Kaz lacks as a game designer.
 
saying no other racing game is breaking the mold is not 100% true, anyone seen the e3 footage of forza 4 the the knex? now that is how you move things forward, i for one love both games and most racing games, tho i admire kaz creative thinking, you have to at some point take a step back and ask your self, use the tools and tech that is here now and keep an eye out for the future, or keep dreaming what cant be done with current tech
 
Sorry Amar, but most these un-educated idiots on this thread will never understand or get anywhere near this level of deep thinking which is more or less post-graduate level thinking, they fail to understand the whole concept of Kaz actually having a life and not just making a game for their selfish desires 24/7 the rest of his life, if they saw the other businesses and projects that people like Kaz have running or are involved with, they just simply wouldn't be able to comprehend it and resort to the usual hunter-gatherer cry which requests that Kaz gives up his life for their selfish desires.

It is a great shame that brilliant thinking from Kaz is overlooked because these people have such a narrow scope to their minds.

As I said in an earlier post, this is a video game we're talking about. An escape from reality for most people, not something to make you think about life and death.
 
I totally feel him, this whole time I have been wondering if I'm one of the few that actually "gets" what he is trying to do. I have defended gt from day one and will always, I freaking love this game!
 
Although I am very aware this thread will probably result with 90% of comments that will be criticism of GT5 on already known basis and ignorant comments regarding the ways that Kazunori Yamauchi spends his time, I really hope for decent level of discussion.

I am not sure what kinnd of decent discussion you are hoping for when you right up front validate the obviuos line of comments that this will bring forth.

And I am not sure why you feel it's necessary or appropriate to label any group of comments "ignorant" when at the very least the empiracal eveidence points to exactly a problem with time management on Kaz/PD's side. I don't think it's fair to group all such comments as ignorant becuase you don't agree with them unless you have some information that proves to the contrary.

Honestly at this point Kaz reminds me of someone on some kind of hallucinogen... they are in a world all their own and it's all very clear to them exactly what's going on and what needs to happen. But to everyone else back on earth it's a big WTF?

All his grandeous talk of mimesis and infections experiences... that's what pretty much all game shoot for... it's called an exciting and unique experience. GTA3 did it, Minecraft did it, WoW did it... it's not some magical thing just because you stick your own word to it and it doesn't make it any less of a missed target with your product. Talk about how you want to do it is all well and good but unless you actually DO do it, in terms of products it doen't really matter. The term walk the walk and talk the talk come to mind.

I don't mean it as an insult but I have to wonder if he is off in his own world somewhere and doens't realize it... reminds me of a musician who gets hooked on a certain aspect of music then starts cranking out works that are so focused on that one aspect that the are just unpleasant no longer really "music" but he is constantly fascinated sure he is discovering new facets and exciting things when really he has just gone so one dimensional he is focusing on something no one but he appreciatets it.
 
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