You know how difficult and time consuming...

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Personally I couldn’t give a **** what forza or any other games does or doesn’t do.
If you’re that bothered then play them instead
 
I'm all for having 700+ cars to drive, or just the most expensive 100 cars in the world, it would be nice to drive them on country roads and around every city of every country - just for the VR experience. There isn't a game that has what I want :guilty:

For sport mode racing - I only need a few cars of the ones we already have in the game and a few more real world tracks. I'm pretty sure PD will be delivering a few more real world tracks this year.
 
It great for speeding up the work. But Some time the car model in game don't look like exactly the same like other. Having only contract worker from other country. You pay cheap for there work to save money. It is good thing for you don't go over budget. but you will get less high quality model or sometime good quality. It end up 50/50 thing, you ending not like some car because it look like toy plastic model. For in house you know who your best person is and not some random people you just do work for you one time.

In the link posted earlier about Forza outsourcing modelling they seemed to put very strict rules and quality control for the company's tending for the work according to the link. And that was 2006. You keep the important cars in house, and you outsource the not so important. If the supplier doesn't meet the quality standard, then adios, and you haven't lost the core cars. If they are good enough, production speeds up. But hey, I'm an outsider. :-)

The stealing stuff yeah they real. Someone from the community found there moded version of AC F1 car in Codemaster F1 2017. I want to say this. How you could afford F1 right but can't afford equipment to scan a car or the people help out ? What annoying the most they tend brush it like nothing happen.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/did-codemasters-copy-this-modders-in-f1-2017.1751/
That's very poot from Codemasters.

Personally I couldn’t give a **** what forza or any other games does or doesn’t do.
If you’re that bothered then play them instead
I think I mentioned that as an option in my original post. ;-)

And here's me thinking it was a forum to discuss GT amongst other games. :-/ But apparently if I don't like some aspect of a game, and show some appreciation for another the answer is not to discuss the problem in any rational way, it is to go away and play the other game. Mmm, most forums on any subject on the internet would be down a lot of members in a short time with that attitude.

Btw, do you know what I do on forums when I see a subject that doesn't interest me, I don't get involved. But that is just me. :-)

I'm all for having 700+ cars to drive, or just the most expensive 100 cars in the world, it would be nice to drive them on country roads and around every city of every country - just for the VR experience. There isn't a game that has what I want :guilty:

For sport mode racing - I only need a few cars of the ones we already have in the game and a few more real world tracks. I'm pretty sure PD will be delivering a few more real world tracks this year.
I admire your optimism with regards to more tracks. :-)

As for types of cars and the number, PD baffle me. People like lots of different cars, so they seem to be inclusive with a broad range of cars, but then do it half **sed imho. If you stick a pickup in a game, put in two of them. If you put in an odd car type have two similar so that they can race, otherwise what is the point. Now I would rather there were no pickups, or Nascar's from the previous games, or carts or whatever, but there are lots of people who like those types of cars so have em all. :-)

Saying that, the pickup stands out like a sore thumb in a race and just ruins the view when it towers over the cars. ;-) lol
 
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Honestly, GT Sport has a lot of cars in it that are brand new, built from the ground up, apart from maybe the Red Bull’s and maybe a few road cars. The 2016 Super GT’s are new, the Ferrari GT3 is new, the Porsche’s are new, it’s basically an entirely new GT game, compared to GT5 and GT6 where more than half the cars were PS2 ports or GT5 models carried over to GT6.

Plus, I think doing the old track’s would take work because they’re updating all of them to fit PS4 standards, which will take time. Real tracks are easy because you can rescan them easily if needed because you can just go to the track, whereas fictional ones could probably need to be reworked or even remade in the new engine if things don’t go right.

I’m hopeful and confident that by the time we bid GT Sport farewell, it’s gonna have many tracks and cars and single player options that have been added over time.
 
What should we do when we see an opinion that doesn't interest us?

Btw, do you know what I do, I share my opinion. We can't always change our opinions or others, but we can make people realise theirs isn't the only opinion that exists.


Edit : PD built a game - GT Sport, the public didn't like that game and wanted it to be GT7, it seems PD are throwing them people a bone or two.
Tracks will come this year I am almost certain of it.
 
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Personally I couldn’t give a **** what forza or any other games does or doesn’t do.
If you’re that bothered then play them instead
Or we could play them all and discuss the differences between them.
 
Or we could play them all and discuss the differences between them.

I think forza has great car culture in its games. Id like to say forza is american muscle and gran turismo is japanese import. Based on what cars are in the games. Last forza i played was horizon 3. Lots of muscle in there (american and aussie).
 
I think forza has great car culture in its games. Id like to say forza is american muscle and gran turismo is japanese import. Based on what cars are in the games. Last forza i played was horizon 3. Lots of muscle in there (american and aussie).
Quite agree.

While I don't have an Xbox this gen, I played the hell out of Forza on the 360.

This gen is awash with racing titles (two and four wheel, track and off-road), I just could not limit myself to a single title, too much to miss out on.
 
You know how difficult and time consuming some people say it is for PD to model cars and tracks, well on the front page of the site my eye got caught by a link to a Forza Motorsport 7 photo competition, so I went and had a look. Some very nice pics. I saw a particularly nice one of a TVR Sagaris. :-) So then I had a look at the specs of FM7.

Total Cars: 741
Total Manufacturer: 90
Forza Editions: 39
DLC Cars: 34

Tracks: 32

How have they been able to do all that at a similar quality level to GT and PD haven't? It can't be money. If you look at how many games PD have sold over the years they should be swimming in the stuff. The mind boggles that some people are happy with what PD have given them.

I know, before you say it, if you are not happy with it then go and whatever.... But seriously, how can one company deliver so much, and another not.

I have been hooked on GT since I first saw a Japanese import playing in my local games shop. I bought a modded console and the game. :-) And have bought every GT since. I even bought a PS4 just to play GT Sport, so I am no 'hater'. Is it purely that PD just do what they want and either like it or lump it! Because as far as the number of cars at least, I thought GT Sport was a bit low compared to previous games, but when a competitor can do that number of cars, albeit on a different machine, but the same generation of machine as the PS4, it makes me think at least, that GT users may not be getting the best treatment.

Make of that what you will. I'm in a grumpy mood stuck inside on holiday, and saw the original FM7 photo thread which prompted this.
GT users may not be getting the best treatment? Treatment is very important, glad we agree on that.

Check out this artist or a hundred others out there
https://kotaku.com/game-industry-veteran-writes-horrifying-article-in-defe-1771434170
 
The issue is quite simple. Profit taking. The vast amount of money that PD makes selling GTS to a largely captive player base doesn't equate to a fraction of the content that other hungrier, smaller developers have managed.

In the same timeframe that PD had access to the PS4 specs and finally brought out GT Sport, SMS developed PC1, released PC1, developed PC2 and released it, and in that time built 180 anally modeled cars (especially with regard to the handling models) and made 140 track layouts (all of which feature full day/night progression and weather). With a vastly larger real life tracks ratio.

There honestly is no comparison. The money that PD have made dwarfs what SMS have made. Sales totals/player numbers are an order of magnitude greater with PD, but the track and car modeling is a fraction. Track and car creation cost money. PD have vastly more of it, but make vastly less with it. Ergo, profit taking.

PD simply have not been taking the money they made and throwing it at a team to quickly make tracks and cars. Guess where ELSE that money has been going? :rolleyes:
 
Not only do T10 outsource their models, they also use the basic skeletons of returning cars from previous games. If I remember correctly someone pointed out that Forza's MR2's skeleton goes all the way back to either the original Forza or Forza 3. This makes it easier to remodel the cars to the new standard

I've mentioned that a few times, yeah. It really is a tiny fraction of the 750-ish cars though; at this point, I'd say it's maybe 2%. Or, put another way, less models in FM7 have FM2 bones than there were "Super Standards" in GT6.

PD dumped basically everything they had when they made GT Sport- except maybe for the Aventador. But even that's a stretch

Whereas in GT Sport, everything was created from scratch (apart from some DLC cars, which were further upgraded anyway).

Yeah... that's highly unlikely. I'm not saying models weren't updated — there's plenty of comparison shots that show as much — but considering the time invested with the GT6 car models, I doubt PD threw absolutely all of it away, for every car. That'd just be a colossal waste of time, to say nothing of the recycling of identical cars. If it really was all from the ground up, why use something like, say, a 2009 458 Italia?

Turn 10 said roughly the same thing around the time of FM5's release. The livery editor was the easiest way to disprove that (the same strange little issues persisted across generations), but we don't have that option in GT6 for comparisons.

Also, Sport uses plenty of fantasy cars in the Gr.4/3/B classes, which conceivably should save some time as they're usually related to existing models. Though that's what makes something like the Beetle Gr.3 all the more fascinating...

Honestly if you can, just buy Forza. It's even easier now that Forza 7 is available on Windows too, so no more Xbox required. I would if I could, since I still get the car collecting craving once in a while

Weirdly enough, I tend to get the craving based on whichever game I'm not playing. :P

Have I sat down with FM7? Suddenly, I really would like to take part in some Sport Mode races, or set up an elaborate, multi-car Scapes shot.
Have I sat down with GT Sport? There's a bunch of cars I'm now wishing I could drive, at a bunch of tracks I don't have access to, with weather.

You do realize that Forza 7 uses old assets, from previous games, right? Some of them are as old as Forza 3.

To be fair a large amount of cars are from pervious series on this generation. This is the 1st gt game on ps4.

GT6 and Forza 5 came within a month of each other. So did FM7 and GT Sport. That's roughly four years in both cases.

Also, I think we'd all agree that if another GT happens on PS4, we'd want PD to reuse Sport assets. I can't see how that's a mark against any racing game!

I don't want them to be like other developers just lazy steal other people stuff without paying them.

That may have happened with another dev, but not with the two being discussed. Well, actually — I'm sure plenty of people snapped up the models for FH3 when Playground accidentally released that developer version January 2017... :eek:

In the same timeframe that PD had access to the PS4 specs and finally brought out GT Sport, SMS developed PC1, released PC1, developed PC2 and released it, and in that time built 180 anally modeled cars (especially with regard to the handling models) and made 140 track layouts (all of which feature full day/night progression and weather). With a vastly larger real life tracks ratio.

Didn't PC1 development start back in 2011?

Talking strictly visuals, as nice as PCARS2's models are, they're not on GT Sport's level. That takes time. Same with the lighting engine, though personally, I readily accept a drop in visual quality in PCARS2's case for the sake of LiveTrack 3.0. That being said, some tracks handle it better than others: Bannochbrae looks terrible in winter weather.

Not all of PCARS2's real-world tracks are laser-scanned, too. I'm not necessarily sure that saves time (or money), but it results in a place like Sonoma feeling a little off. I want more tracks in GT Sport as much as the next person, but in semi-realistic titles, I'd rather see real-world tracks made accurately.

The fantasy tracks in Sport feel better than the PS3 era creations to me. The Tokyo tracks aren't my cup of tea, same with the rally stuff, but Maggiore, Kyoto, and Dragon Trail are all fantastic. To a lesser extent, same with Alsace.

In response to the OP, and tying all of the above together: all of these games, while existing in roughly the same space, approach the problem of making a racing game very differently. There's a list of priorities for each, and they all understandably play to those strengths, be it GT's visuals and competition approach, FM7's diversity and approachability, or PCARS2's motorsports focus.
 
GT6 and Forza 5 came within a month of each other. So did FM7 and GT Sport. That's roughly four years in both cases.

They did. T10 also released fh2 and fh3 (through playground games) on xbox. They also had these resources to pool from. Cars from fh2 and fm6 are rife in fh3 as cars in fm7 are rife 9n all of them.
 
I've mentioned that a few times, yeah. It really is a tiny fraction of the 750-ish cars though; at this point, I'd say it's maybe 2%. Or, put another way, less models in FM7 have FM2 bones than there were "Super Standards" in GT6.





Yeah... that's highly unlikely. I'm not saying models weren't updated — there's plenty of comparison shots that show as much — but considering the time invested with the GT6 car models, I doubt PD threw absolutely all of it away, for every car. That'd just be a colossal waste of time, to say nothing of the recycling of identical cars. If it really was all from the ground up, why use something like, say, a 2009 458 Italia?

Turn 10 said roughly the same thing around the time of FM5's release. The livery editor was the easiest way to disprove that (the same strange little issues persisted across generations), but we don't have that option in GT6 for comparisons.

Also, Sport uses plenty of fantasy cars in the Gr.4/3/B classes, which conceivably should save some time as they're usually related to existing models. Though that's what makes something like the Beetle Gr.3 all the more fascinating...



Weirdly enough, I tend to get the craving based on whichever game I'm not playing. :P

Have I sat down with FM7? Suddenly, I really would like to take part in some Sport Mode races, or set up an elaborate, multi-car Scapes shot.
Have I sat down with GT Sport? There's a bunch of cars I'm now wishing I could drive, at a bunch of tracks I don't have access to, with weather.





GT6 and Forza 5 came within a month of each other. So did FM7 and GT Sport. That's roughly four years in both cases.

Also, I think we'd all agree that if another GT happens on PS4, we'd want PD to reuse Sport assets. I can't see how that's a mark against any racing game!



That may have happened with another dev, but not with the two being discussed. Well, actually — I'm sure plenty of people snapped up the models for FH3 when Playground accidentally released that developer version January 2017... :eek:



Didn't PC1 development start back in 2011?

Talking strictly visuals, as nice as PCARS2's models are, they're not on GT Sport's level. That takes time. Same with the lighting engine, though personally, I readily accept a drop in visual quality in PCARS2's case for the sake of LiveTrack 3.0. That being said, some tracks handle it better than others: Bannochbrae looks terrible in winter weather.

Not all of PCARS2's real-world tracks are laser-scanned, too. I'm not necessarily sure that saves time (or money), but it results in a place like Sonoma feeling a little off. I want more tracks in GT Sport as much as the next person, but in semi-realistic titles, I'd rather see real-world tracks made accurately.

The fantasy tracks in Sport feel better than the PS3 era creations to me. The Tokyo tracks aren't my cup of tea, same with the rally stuff, but Maggiore, Kyoto, and Dragon Trail are all fantastic. To a lesser extent, same with Alsace.

In response to the OP, and tying all of the above together: all of these games, while existing in roughly the same space, approach the problem of making a racing game very differently. There's a list of priorities for each, and they all understandably play to those strengths, be it GT's visuals and competition approach, FM7's diversity and approachability, or PCARS2's motorsports focus.
Thanks for the in-depth analysis and corrections! I really do think though that PD did make all these cars up from scratch. It explains a lot why it took them so long + all the few cars. But honestly I think I'm more wrong than you so I'll take my own opinion with a pinch of salt :lol:
 
I bought my first PS just because of the original Gran Turismo. I have bought every other PS and Gran Turismo since. GT Sport is the only game I have for PS4 right now. I occasionally play NASCAR or F1 on PS but GT is my main reason for owning a PS. I also have XBOX, I have XBOX 1 now, I think that is the most current, but I have most of the Forzas too, never cared for Forza as much as GT though. What I would like out of PD is more tracks and race cars/hi-perf cars, I dont care for stock Civics, early Mustangs and Camaros and pick ups, etc.. unless you can build race cars from them like in the early GT games. I would love to see some of the GT originals like Trial Mountain, Grand Valley, High Speed Ring, the huge oval test track, Deep Forest, Red Rock Valley and whatever others I am missing. Dont really care about VR either. I would happily pay for additional tracks, cars and races too.
 
I bought my first PS just because of the original Gran Turismo. I have bought every other PS and Gran Turismo since. GT Sport is the only game I have for PS4 right now. I occasionally play NASCAR or F1 on PS but GT is my main reason for owning a PS. I also have XBOX, I have XBOX 1 now, I think that is the most current, but I have most of the Forzas too, never cared for Forza as much as GT though. What I would like out of PD is more tracks and race cars/hi-perf cars, I dont care for stock Civics, early Mustangs and Camaros and pick ups, etc.. unless you can build race cars from them like in the early GT games. I would love to see some of the GT originals like Trial Mountain, Grand Valley, High Speed Ring, the huge oval test track, Deep Forest, Red Rock Valley and whatever others I am missing. Dont really care about VR either. I would happily pay for additional tracks, cars and races too.

That's the thing though, my love of GT came from the fact they had low performance every day cars that we could race. I can get a ton of other racing games with high performance cars but how many racing games can I race an every day road car? I'm not saying I don't want more race cars, I most certainly do but if GT ever stops representing 'normal' cars in their games I'll probably stop buying the game.

I appreciate the care PD puts into their modeling detail and it really shows but at the pace they're going now it's going to take ages to ever reach the car numbers of the older GT games (if it ever does). But in the end if I had to choose I'd prefer PD stays with what they want to do, if they want to take their time modeling the cars to perfection then so be it.

I do really wish they'd out source their tracks. While their car modeling is second to none their track modeling pretty average at best and I wouldn't mind them letting some other studio take over if it meant they could get tracks out of the gate quicker. GTS desperately needs tracks to race on and I'd give just about anything to get this track count way higher than what it is.
 
I could not agree more with you on the track thing. As far as driving the old and current original street cars you really cant say they feel like driving those cars in real life. With each car that they offer there are different characteristics from each other including sound, suspension dynamics etc.. but I cant really say they mimic real road cars. Even the race cars, if you turn off TC its almost impossible to accelerate without spinning the tires, in the real world its just not like that, even with an excess of 1200HP on tap.
 
I could not agree more with you on the track thing. As far as driving the old and current original street cars you really cant say they feel like driving those cars in real life. With each car that they offer there are different characteristics from each other including sound, suspension dynamics etc.. but I cant really say they mimic real road cars. Even the race cars, if you turn off TC its almost impossible to accelerate without spinning the tires, in the real world its just not like that, even with an excess of 1200HP on tap.
The cars in GT Sport seem to be more alike than different imho compared to previous games. Can't say the front wheel drive cars feel as front wheel drive cars did in previous games.
One of the things that always does my head in that if you are stopped and are turning as you accelerate it doesn't do it fast enough. But I'm sure we could pick apart "The Real Driving Simulator". ;-) lol
 
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