Your BoP hopes for the next update

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Voodoovaj, May 22, 2019.

  1. Voodoovaj

    Voodoovaj

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    Here's my BoP hopes.

    First, I hope they go back to a tire model more like 1.35 where the GR3 Ferrari, Lambo, and McLaren weren't over steering nightmares. I'm not sure why they went back to the broken implementation they had before, but (for those cars) it's gone back to sucking. I think the Ferrari is fine if they fix the handling. They Adjusted the BoP of the Huracan after they fixed the handling, but they never adjusted it back. Now, I think it's BoP is ok, but the handling needs to be addressed.

    Both Gr3 and GR 4 McLarens need help. Doesn't anyone use these with consistent success?
    The Hyundais need some help, especially the GR3. It doesn't do anything particularly well enough to consistently challenge for a win.
    I'd like to see the GR3 Subaru get some love too.

    The Cayman Clubsport is a funny thing. If you're a good driver, it can be fast, but I have just scored my first win with it yesterday. I'm thinking it could use a small bump.

    Any other ideas?
     
  2. BradleyLove

    BradleyLove

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    I don’t think I’ve ever seen the Viper be the meta, so for me it needs perhaps some weight reduction. It hasn’t been competitive since Nurb 24h.
     
  3. Voodoovaj

    Voodoovaj

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    Ya, the vipers both got a bit of a nerf a while back and they haven't been of much use ever since. The GR3 viper is especially a little out of the loop.

    The Vette too.

    I don't know if the other cars need to be slowed down or if these need to be sped up, but considering the GR3 Viper is at 86% power, I am think it could be allowed to run a little more free.
     
  4. Lebowski

    Lebowski

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    954
    McLaren F1 Gr3s top speed seriously needs winding back. Sick to death of these things getting in my slipstream only for them to ram me off because they were going too fast for a braking point. Utterly ridiculous to have such a vast difference in top speeds. Both Gr3 Fords too.
     
  5. talhaONE

    talhaONE

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    Nerf Beetle And 911 gt3 rs into the ground. Those no brainer cars deserves to be trash.

    For N class nerf F40, F50 and all Porsche 911s.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  6. LotusEvoraGTE

    LotusEvoraGTE

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    Buff the 650S in general, the Veyron Gr.4 and the rest of the non-lightweight/non-FF Gr.4 cars.
     
  7. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    Tyre model is fine, it actually improved traction. The thing is they changed the BoP at the same time to match a somewhat standardized weight, which is quite high, and for most MR cars, that's quite a lot of ballast. Weight distribution is also probably changed more for those. Just having them closer to 100% weight makes them significantly more manageable (although there's still something else to tweak regarding the likes of the Ferrari Gr.3).

    For some reason, Gr.4 MR cars are all on rails pretty much. McLaren Gr.4 is actually good on pace (but it's horrible on fuel), the thing is you have to short shift it a lot. Power drops massively on high RPMs with that one, which is easy to ignore when you're used to rev the heck out of the Gr.3 which has a completely different engine character.


    Gr.3 needs the most is tyre wear and fuel balancing. It's critical.
    Gr.4 needs to stay on race hards only and never have tyre and fuel multipliers again. Then you can start trying to balance it.
    N classes need a complete overhaul, and not detunign below original class allowed in Sport mode / FIA.

    Overall, I'd take a completely different approach to just have an AI run a time attack lap on a single track. Run cars at 100% / 100% and test low to mid speed acceleration (80 to 200 km/h for Gr.3), mid to high speed acceleration (200 to 260 km/h for Gr.3), top speed. Take either the average or set target values, tweak power to match targets. When it's done, measure traction, low speed and high speed lateral Gs, adjust weight accordingly. Set an individual multiplier for each car regarding fuel and tyre wear, so more or less match in a race. When you have done all of that, and only then, run time attack laps on various tracks OR a specifically built one being a kind of best of what's in the game (doesn't need to loop, doesn't need to be pretty, doesn't need to be released publicly). That's the simple version.
    More in depth version would be to have the power adjuster also modify the power curve shape / limit power accross several RPM ranges to stop having some cars being more efficient at short shifting, plus stock gearbox ratios and aero settings changed. You could also actually ask the manufacturers to decide themselves what base setup their cars would have in the game.
     
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  8. ARTAsean

    ARTAsean

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    Gr.2 which is my favorite class needs some love. The ‘08 cars need more downforce and less weight. It’s not a Gr.1 situation - this class could be very closely balanced with some tinkering.
     
    NosOsH, Pigems, DaigoD and 2 others like this.
  9. Dimitri

    Dimitri

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    I love gr4 and TCR cars. They are ruined in GTS by all having full downforce at the rear. I hope the setups are changed so that rear downforce is at the minimum for all FF and 4wd gr4 cars. It would also help with tyre wear for these cars.
     
  10. Haitauer

    Haitauer

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    I hope they consentrate on transmission gear ratios. Theres a ton of cars with messed up gear ratios.

    Gr3 Fords dont have that much top speed. Ive driven the gr3 Mustang since vanilla, and struggle to pass many of the other cars (mostly GTR) in Monza. What it does have is torgue still past 200kph. If they nerf the only thing the fords have they render them pretty useless. Gr4 Mustang is already mostly unsuitable for racing - i think its the transmission or diff gear thats messed up.
     
  11. Benay79

    Benay79

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    I just wish they'd make the genuine GT cars better and nerf the concept cars. Love to see Ferrari actually challenge. Hate seeing that stupid VW VGT thing or that Citroen etc being better to drive than a real Gt3/GT4 car.
     
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  12. MikeV27

    MikeV27

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    The Gr3 GTR doesn't need 600+ hp with BOP, especially since most of the other cars are in the 540-570 range with similar weight.

    McLaren F1 deserves another nerf on hp because of it's top speed, but it was kind of dumb even adding this car to gr3 anyway.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  13. CallawaySS

    CallawaySS

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    I disagree. The car isn't very competitive on other tracks, mostly tracks that don't have long straights. Soo, why can't it have at least a good top speed? Besides, it's the legendary McLaren F1, it deserves to be fast. Even though it technically isn't, it's only fast on these big tracks with long straights.
     
  14. CallawaySS

    CallawaySS

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    83
    N classes could deserve some better BoP, imo. If you are in N300 and you take for example NSX, skylines, rx7 etc against a Porsche 911, bmw m4, S-FR, F50 and the people driving them have similar skills, or sometimes even little bit worse skills, you have almost no chance to keep up.
     
    talhaONE likes this.
  15. BradleyLove

    BradleyLove

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    Preach.
     
  16. VBR

    VBR Premium

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    We have two hopes for improvement in this area; no hope, & BoP Hope!


    :sly:
     
  17. Voodoovaj

    Voodoovaj

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    I think it's seen as more competitive than it is because, as the skill required to navigate turns drops, the straight-line advantage of a car increases. I agree that the F1 isn't as good as the GT R is on the fast tracks.

    That's a long standing issue regarding the VGT's. I'm firmly in the dislike camp. I hate seeing them.

    And, I know this seems petty, but at least they made the Citroen "appear" to conform to the rule of Group 3 (as in tire size, etc). This is why I don't mind the RCZ, the Subaru, Mazda, and Evo. The VW's are so far off that they ruin the suspension of disbelief. But IMHO, they should have gone the RCZ route and chosen a proper Citroen, but the concept is Kaz's baby and I imagine that he's the only one who thought it was a good idea.


    Still...BoP is the topic :D
     
  18. gapper59

    gapper59

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    GR3 & 4 Vets need to be improved
     
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  19. vvise

    vvise

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    Make the Nissan's faster. Just because. :p
     
  20. ASH32

    ASH32

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    Do this and you are looking at two new OP cars. I guess someone has picked Chevrolet. :lol:

    On this subject they need to stop the using the stupidly excessive tyre wear first before trying any more balancing otherwise you'll just get cars that are Op when there is none (daily race A or B) but they'll still be no more than an average car with the wear as it is. Even with lower rates they will still be some cars that are just better but at least the gap between them won't be as big. Not that any of this is a new idea or anything either, it's been said for a while by a number of people.
     
    SmokeyMR2 likes this.
  21. gapper59

    gapper59

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    Nope, don't do manufacturers if that's what you mean. Like the Ferraris they do well in real life but I rarely see them used in dailies
     
  22. GT5Power

    GT5Power

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    • Bring Gr.4 cars closer together in terms of tire wear, preferably by leaving the 4C, 86 etc. alone and improving the rest.
    • Same for Gr.3, make it so that MR cars like the Huracán and 458 stand a chance in extreme tire wear conditions.
    • Maybe a nerf to the R8 LMS's outright pace? It dominates the overwhelming majority Gr.3 daily B races, but isn't as good in daily C / FIA. Hopefully making it better on tires will balance that out.
    • Aside from that, Gr.3 has a decent number of viable cars, but a pretty big number of unviable cars as well. Cars like the 650S (<3), Genesis, WRX, both Peugeots, Z4, M3, Viper, Evo, RS01, SLS don't see much usage at all. Although the WRX probably won't be buffed because @TRL LIGHTNING is killing it in Manufacturers with Subaru :p
    • The Atenza needs a bit of a top speed buff, it's very good on tracks like Interlagos but in a straight line it gets left behind.
    • Buffs in Gr.4: 650S again, Genesis again, WRX again, Peugeot again (mainly tire wear), Veyron (never thought I'd be calling for a Veyron buff :lol), GT-R, Evo again, RCF, maybe more. There are some cars that really stand out in this class, both pace-wise and tire wear-wise.
    • Make the 2008 Super GT cars actually worth using over the 2016 ones, since now it's pretty much suicide :indiff: I mean, if the McLaren F1 GTR was able to fit well in Gr.3, these shouldn't be too hard to BoP for Gr.2.
    • Buff the top speed of the Group C cars not named R92CP, since on the rare occasion that Group C is the meta, it's only the Nissan. The R18, 919 and 908 could use small nerfs to make other Gr.1 cars viable.
    Oh, and... ditch the ridiculous tire wear. Please. :lol:
     
  23. WestSideMike

    WestSideMike

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    Couldn't agree more with the needed BoP updates for the Vette and Viper. Of course, I'm biased as these are the last two manufacturers I chose for the FIA races (currently in the Dodge). The tire wear is fairly ridiculous and it just seems....slow. Qualified 5th at Big Willow and finished the same, but just couldn't keep up with the top 4.
     
    Stencedaddy likes this.
  24. Brzlav

    Brzlav

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    414
    Just implement a randomized daily race function. One daily race per hour, on sign-in you get a random car. You can't change it by leaving and re-signing-in.

    Never gonna happen, but I think it would be more fun than having 50-90% meta cars in the room on some tracks. I enjoy the manufacturer's races (even with the ridiculous tire wear) because of the mixed fields of cars.
     
  25. iFerrari

    iFerrari

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    191
    They should scrap whatever BoP is on right now, every Gr.3 and Gr.4 both FR and MR become way more predictable the closer they are to 100% weight value. Imo as a general rule PD should try to make all cars a lot lighter than they are now.
     
    gapper59 likes this.
  26. Tassie_tiger

    Tassie_tiger

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    Just a general comment here from me.

    I think there are some cars that need improving. Full stop.

    But I think BoP is very awkward to set.
    I say this because it seems to me that it depends on 'who' you set it for.

    For example, there may be a car that the average Joe finds difficult to have any success in, and to their eyes (and the consensus of all average Joe's) the car is slow definitely needs improving.
    But there will be a handful of people who can drive that same car very well, and prove that the car is super competitive if driven correctly, therefore suggesting it does not need improving.

    Should PD buff that car or not?

    I think this is the dilemma PD face, and also for things such as stability, fuel consumption, tyre wear, etc.
    Once it's shown that the car can be just as good as any other car in these areas, improving it would seem to be the wrong call.
    Even if 99% of us average Joes's don't have a hope of extracting that type of performance from the car.


    I don't know, just thinking out loud I guess. :p
     
  27. Brzlav

    Brzlav

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    And, additionally: PD set a BoP that is universal for all tracks in the game. In reality, the Nordschleife has its own BoP and also Le Mans has its own BoP within the WEC because of the specific characteristics of the track. The F1 might be strong with its topspeed there, but now just imagine (as an extreme example) what would happen if the 911 RSR would be BoP'ed to the same topspeed as the F1. No one would ever pick the F1 anywhere.

    I think overall, Gr. 3 BoP is not that bad and you can see varied fields on most tracks. Gr. 4 would benefit from being RWD only.
     
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  28. Tassie_tiger

    Tassie_tiger

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    Yeh, I think it's reasonable that PD just use a general BoP.
    The work load for individual track BoP's would be asking too much.

    I understand, and don't mind, seeing a certain car on a certain track dominate the top 10 leaderbaord.
    It is what it is.
    But, at least from what I've noticed, there seems to be a fairly decent representation from multiple manufacturers on the leaderboards of late.
    Perhaps the likely candidates are always showing, and some cars never do, but it doesn't seem horribly bad at the moment.
    It's the 'some cars that never do' situation that I would like to see improved upon.
     
    Lazybike likes this.
  29. zzz_pt

    zzz_pt Premium

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    Gr.3 is OK atm. Only the front tires wear a bit too much compared to slightly faster cars.

    I'm in a league atm with the Vette and I can keep up with all the other cars with fresh tires. The M6 is slightly faster and has better tire wear but other than that, the Vette is a pretty damn good car (just slightly worse than M6, Beetle, and FT1, but on par with the Jag).

    The GR.4 I have no idea.
     
  30. ASH32

    ASH32

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    The Gr.4 was one of the better cars I tried at Interlagos last week, don't know how it does with tyres and fuel but I doubt it is bad. There are many worse manufacturers than Chevrolet for me.