Your Opinions on the H-Shifter/Clutch Changes

Do you like or dislike the changes to the H-Shifter/Clutch combo?

  • Like

    Votes: 38 31.4%
  • Dislike

    Votes: 83 68.6%

  • Total voters
    121
  • Poll closed .
This update is the worst thing that can happen to H-shifter users.

Maybe we had a advantage before but this update puts us in a huge disadvantage ! It seems like we can’t shift faster than people not using an H-shifter. We can only be slower... Add to this the difficulty of timing the clutch and the risk of miss-shifting, it became pointless to use it if you’re trying to be competitive. Moreover it’s not fun anymore to play with H-shifter.

Last but not least, the sound they added it ridiculously bad, it sounds more like a wastegate than a miss-shift sound !

I hope PD will try to balance this, because H-shifter are now pointless...
 
Only the long tail F1 GTRs had a sequential box, the standard ones had a renforced varient of the road cars manual gearbox. This specific car would not have had a sequential system, given that it was chassis No.1 of the GTRs and following its Le Mans win was immediately retired.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_F1_GTR

Even sequential boxes of that age didn't shift that fast, in many cases they were no faster than a manual box, they were initially used because they were more convenient and kept your hands on the wheel (depending on the exact system).

The shift on the F1 is too fast, the WRX is a fantasy car so it's not the best example and I should go back and look again with the Quattro Group B (as that is 100% a manual).

The thing is GTS makes all Gr.3 and Gr.4 cars act like they have a sequential gearbox. The Ford GT Gr.3 is the same situation, as it is modeled with a H-pattern shift knob, but still acts like a sequential. The WRX also has the H-pattern knob and animation, you can still use the clutch but it doesn't work the same way as most other cars when used with paddles. Bottom line is using these cars for your test is not relevant. The result you should focus on is the GT86's.

Your OPINION is a different fix would of been "better" the clutch pedal is :censored:ed.

BoP in N classes is broken, that's a fact everyone agrees on. I have tested 150+ road cars in time trial on the same track with the same tyres, so the data I gathered from that are facts, not opinions, and facts say that slow shifting speeds for some cars is one of the big factors for such disparities in the BoP. Even Polyphony themselves agree, because in the Paris World Tour, all cars in the N300 and N500 races had race transmission locked to the same top speed preset and custom LSD locked to default settings fitted - and they did that because world finalists suggested it beforehand. And even though it didn't make the BoP perfect (even though the BoP used there was custom), it was definitely better as it allowed cars like the E-Type to be competitive. It also prevented people from taking advantage of the double upshift glitch. They even do it for daily races when it's a Fiat 500 or Sambabus one make, so forcing that when BoP is turned on is probably just a matter of copy-pasting a bit of code and changing a couple variables.

PD has done and will do things people disagree with, they seem to know what they are doing as despite all there mistakes and blunders, not going with suggestions like yours or mine, they will keep on going with or without us as individuals.

They don't. If they did, they would have postponed the N300 race by switching it with a no-shifter race in the calendar, so that the only race where shifters mattered would be held AFTER the "fix". There's literally no other race that counts towards Nurburgring World Tour qualifying left where shifter could have been an advantage, as Fuji N500 will see a meta of no-clutch cars anyway. So the update is actually not bringing any more fairness to Stage 1.

Many issues within the game have been discovered by the community while PD had no clue. Grip bug comes to mind, it took extensive research from members and a long detailed report to have them looking at it. Now some of us went to live events and PD invited some of them to a meeting specifically to hear their suggestions. That's actually where they were suggested to take action on the whole shifter situation. They were not aware of the advantage it could bring. So that "fix" they did is again a direct consequence of player feedback - only thing is they tried to do it in a different way that was suggested and they failed miserably because it doesn't even solves the glitch side of the problem.

I can also tell you they don't know what they're doing about FIAs, which is why you now see some of the best players tanking their DR on purpose to be in lower splits to earn points more easily. Talk about fairness when being 3rd in top split gives you less points than being 1st in 2nd split with a qualy time that would have put you 12th on the top split grid. And I also figured out something even worse regarding the points system with the help of a couple friends, but as there's still time to change this, we're not making this public and only giving the info to PD.


I aint laughing at people who use SIM rig gear on a Arcady console game (0_0)

You do :

None, cry me a river, boo who, Zero sympathies for them.

Don't forget 80% of GT Sport players never did a single sport race. Only 5% has done more than 20 races. You CAN'T ignore the 95% who don't care about Sport mode - which is the whole reason PD shoehorned GT League events into the game after release. The game would have DIED if they kept ignoring those players, and FIAs wouldn't have been a thing at all then. Shifter users are not 100% of those users, but they keep being more and more every day.

Now imagine Starcraft decides to set a 1 second delay to all inputs because they think people who can set macros on their keyboard / mouse have an unfair advantage. Sure everyone will be on equal grounds, but many will also stop playing the game completely because it ruined the experience for nearly everyone.

You just can't break something even for the sake of fairness, period. You have to find a workaround that doesn't remove something from the experience, if you can't do that, you just failed at game developping. Otherwise, what's the next step : nerfing steering wheels reaction times to make it fair to DS4 players who use cross and square to accelerate and brake ?
 
The update to the H-shifter /clutch is absolutely atrocious. It is far from realistic and quite frankly renders the clutch useless when trying to keep up with other drivers. I pray this was a mistake and it is not intended to stay this way. I doubt anyone who claims paddle shifting is slower has had an opportunity to miss a shift with a clutch.
 
BoP in N classes is broken, that's a fact everyone agrees on.

Sooo BoP is broken and everybody agrees.... Swell :)

Many issues within the game have been discovered by the community while PD had no clue. Grip bug comes to mind, it took extensive research from members and a long detailed report to have them looking at it. Now some of us went to live events and PD invited some of them to a meeting specifically to hear their suggestions. That's actually where they were suggested to take action on the whole shifter situation. They were not aware of the advantage it could bring. So that "fix" they did is again a direct consequence of player feedback - only thing is they tried to do it in a different way that was suggested and they failed miserably because it doesn't even solves the glitch side of the problem.

Okay so PD did what PD wanted to do. Seems like:

PD will do what PD wants to do

eh...

I can also tell you they don't know what they're doing about FIAs.

Didn't they come up with it? IDK seems something this new will have growing pains, Id prefer a normal GT# no need the FiA stuff for me. # ed titles I get so much more features than this E-Sports spin off we have to deal with like its back in GT5P days...


You misunderstood even though I repeat myself a number of times. You only see what you want to see.

I have respect for those who recognized there was an issue before the update, I also have respect for those who understand and want the issue to be fixed instead of just going back to the way it was. I have no sympathies, cry me a river, boo hoo, those who think there was NOT a problem until the update, and who would prefer it go back to the way it was vs fix the issue for all....


You just can't break something even for the sake of fairness, period.

Sure can, kinda feels like thats exactly what they did.

You have to find a workaround that doesn't remove something from the experience, if you can't do that, you just failed at game developping.

I dont know, Ive never developed any games let alone a franchise like Gran Turismo who am I to tell them how to run PD and develops GT, they are doing fine without me. Im sure they listen to their users how and when they want to.
 
I don't know if I'm affected at all by this but I'm using a DS4 with manual shifting and I'm finding myself a distant last in every single lobby race I've played over the last few days. Usually I can manage middle of the pack.

maybe I'll switch to automatic and see if things change.

*shrugs*
 
This update is the worst thing that can happen to H-shifter users.

Maybe we had a advantage before but this update puts us in a huge disadvantage ! It seems like we can’t shift faster than people not using an H-shifter. We can only be slower... Add to this the difficulty of timing the clutch and the risk of miss-shifting, it became pointless to use it if you’re trying to be competitive. Moreover it’s not fun anymore to play with H-shifter.

Last but not least, the sound they added it ridiculously bad, it sounds more like a wastegate than a miss-shift sound !

I hope PD will try to balance this, because H-shifter are now pointless...
I've found that the road car homologation models you can pick up from mileage exchange can be raced with the shifter, and you can change gears as fast or as slow as you please.

Other models Ive found dont seem to suffer post update:
-Diablo GT
-McLaren F1
-Ford GT
-Evo Final Edition
-Honda Project 2&4 (The first shift has to be careful but the rest seem fine)
-R92CP

(Obviously I havent tested every car so I'm certain there are more! These are just ones I've tried since 1.36)

I agree, we should be allowed to run any manual car we want and shift as fast as we want, we've spent the extra money to buy a shifter for our setup! But just letting you know all is not lost, and there are still some cars you can have a blast in :D
 
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From daily races changed to weekly, now to h shifter changes. People appreciate the free content PD add to GTS but my main criticism with Polyphony is that they didn’t take this and the weekly races into account.

I’ve just tried out the h shifter change and OMG, what were they thinking? BTW that sound when the revs aren’t matched sounds like a steam train making me say to myself “wtf is that?”.

Anyway, I’m more looking forward to Wreckfest on console. That has wheel and clutch support on PC at the moment. Surely the clutch is better in that game.
 
As a DS4 user who has never used a wheel and shifter combo because of money, I understand the reasons why PD did the nerf.

But frankly, I don't like it at all, I think if someone had the guts, money and dedication to sim racing to the point of compromising and buying a wheel with shifter, they should be rewarded as such.

Plus, it's not like they could just make small changes to the cars in sport mode which would be a effective fix as well, like applying customized gearbox to all N-class cars on Sport and FIA mode races.

Sometimes it looks like PD just makes things complicated for the sake of making them complicated.
 
Plus, it's not like they could just make small changes to the cars in sport mode which would be a effective fix as well, like applying customized gearbox to all N-class cars on Sport and FIA mode races.

Sometimes it looks like PD just makes things complicated for the sake of making them complicated.

Let's keep this thread going we are onto something

My assumption is - they resorted to this complicating change since that seems cheaper (in terms of time) than manually adjusting car by car. Global Change of clutch in stage of already running game may resort to bugging cars completely which would be much much worse. That would affect all players not just the shifter bunch. I believe if this posts gets enough attention PD will see out frustration and reward our constructive feedback with possitive fix be patient folks.

PD values customers but everything takes time
 
As a DS4 user who has never used a wheel and shifter combo because of money, I understand the reasons why PD did the nerf.

But frankly, I don't like it at all, I think if someone had the guts, money and dedication to sim racing to the point of compromising and buying a wheel with shifter, they should be rewarded as such.

Plus, it's not like they could just make small changes to the cars in sport mode which would be a effective fix as well, like applying customized gearbox to all N-class cars on Sport and FIA mode races.

Sometimes it looks like PD just makes things complicated for the sake of making them complicated.

I agree with your solution, they could add the customized gearbox to all cars when BoP is activated, they will be no more advantage for any control device and the fun of driving with a H-patern will be available for online lobby (without BoP) and offline playing.
 
Holy crap.
So that's why I couldn't shift last weekend.
I was driving around with the Toyota Supra, and I was always locking the shifter going to 3rd.
I was like wtf, why can't I shift from 2nd to 3rd? It was going from 2nd to Neutral EVERY TIME.
I even went ballistic at my shifter, shaking it like an idiot.
So I started playing Driveclub, and I didn't have any issues with the shifter.
I was very frustrated, but I still wanted to find the problem, so I went back to GTSport.
I started playing it again.
Then, I started going at it veeeery slowly, pressing the clutch, and shifting veeery slow and *gasp*, it worked.
 
My shifter finally showed up today, I unplugged it within 5 minutes, it’s useless and being sent back.
Or you could get another game like AC, PGR2 and use it.
Don't send it back just because one game doesn't take advantage of it.
 
Shifting is now just horrible. Took away my joy of playing this game. It takes forever to shift even with sports cars. Even with the DS4 I delay applying gas for about 1 sec after shifting up and still get the cringe worthy rev-jump sound because the clutch is still not engaged. I really do hope someone from PD notices this thread. They could've at least spared the offline content from this but it is utterly unrealistic.
 
VBR
I do hope that it's a Thrustmaster shifter, & that Thrustmaster is being made aware that they are losing product sales due to PD, you know, their partner in licensing!

Oh, the irony...


:lol:

It is indeed, a TH8A. I was really looking forward to bangin some gears too!
 
For how horrible changes may be they were necessary in PD logic. GTS is entirely focused in Sport mode for them and they could not allow anymore wheel+h-pattern+clutch to have such an advantage on every other user. I agree that now clutch is completely broken (not that it was fine before tbh) but I understand this change. And yes I agree with people that say that they should’ve gone the other way around and make every gearbox a semi-automatic one (at least in sport mode).
 
I just sent the following message to Thrustmaster;


"Dear Thrustmaster,

I would like to make you aware of losses in your product sales due to the poor behaviour of one of your licensing partners, namely Polyphony Digital. I am of course referring to the T-GT FFB wheel & GT Sport.

They have deliberately ruined the clutch model in their GT Sport game, making it virtually unplayable to your customers using the extra pedal sets with a clutch, & those buying shifter add ons. I know of at least one customer so far who has returned his item because of this (see link below), & this will probably be the first of many.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...er-clutch-changes.386449/page-7#post-12692712

Because of a slightly unfair advantage that clutch shifting had over paddle shifting In GT Sport, PD nerfed the clutch, instead of fixing the underlying problems in their bad game design. Not only are you going to lose sales over this, but your clutch using customers are being disregarded & treated disrespectfully by PD. There are many people who have invested many hundreds in an officially licensed Thrustmaster T-GT plus extra pedal set & shifter, who can no longer enjoy using your products in GT Sport.

Please contact Polyphony Digital & have them correct this situation before you lose even more sales, & end up with many more furious customers - how many GT Sport players already own the extra pedal sets & shifters?



Yours Sincerely,

[VBR]."


If anyone else wants to bring this clutch nerf situation to the attention of Thrustmaster, & encourage them to put some pressure on PD, then please use this contact form:

https://support.thrustmaster.com/en/contact-en/



👍
 
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For how horrible changes may be they were necessary in PD logic. GTS is entirely focused in Sport mode for them and they could not allow anymore wheel+h-pattern+clutch to have such an advantage on every other user. I agree that now clutch is completely broken (not that it was fine before tbh) but I understand this change. And yes I agree with people that say that they should’ve gone the other way around and make every gearbox a semi-automatic one (at least in sport mode).

or they could've simply said that H-pattern shifters are no longer allowed in sport mode. But when you think of it... Don't you think that people who put effort into using a manual and perform well deserve to have advantage? Why pull people down instead of making them a benchmark for the others? I just can not justify this update with regards to sport mode. Kind of a lazy solution if you ask me. (PS: and I always thought the H-pattern was already slow.. well forget it now).
 
alp
or they could've simply said that H-pattern shifters are no longer allowed in sport mode. But when you think of it... Don't you think that people who put effort into using a manual and perform well deserve to have advantage? Why pull people down instead of making them a benchmark for the others? I just can not justify this update with regards to sport mode. Kind of a lazy solution if you ask me. (PS: and I always thought the H-pattern was already slow.. well forget it now).
Maybe they even deserve an "advantage" for the effort of using a clutch and h pattern, but then if I wanted to be competitive in Sport mode I was forced to buy T3PA+TH8A (more or less 260€) since Thrustmaster doesn't give you them in bundle with the T300RS (already a 300€ buy). Then the whole narrative of Sport mode "from 7 to 77" thing that PD wants to push goes to hell.
 
VBR
I do hope that it's a Thrustmaster shifter, & that Thrustmaster is being made aware that they are losing product sales due to PD, you know, their partner in licensing!

Oh, the irony...


:lol:
Guaranteed they won't be happy.
I have the Logitech G29 and the shifter doesn't work either but lately Logitech and Polyphony haven't had a good relationship so it's not like Logitech cares anyways.
 
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