YSSMAN is crazy.

[YSSMAN]

Stack up just about any V8 you can think of against a GM Small block and I don't think you'd find anything that will come close in terms of (low) cost, a strong power curve, being light in weight, overall more reliable, and easy to work on. Don't get me wrong, I have a soft spot for those new DOHC V8s that the M-Division is cranking out, and a similar fondness for the AMG hand-built beauties... But the General still has the V8 stuff down pat.

I don't care if they're ass-backwards engineered with little effort, I don't care if they're "inefficient," and I sure has hell don't care that the design is over 50 years old. It always has, and always will work. They've done a good enough job modernizing the engine over the years, and consequently, we've reached the point where we're going to bring the engine sizes back down. Rumors continue to fly that the new Corvette could go as little as 4.5-5.0L. The smallest engines they've offered in the car since the I6.

You don't need fancy gizmos to make power and be efficent. It helps, it certainly makes things "easier," but you don't need it. General Motors has proven it time and time again, and its part of the reason why Ford has continued to perform the EPIC FAIL with their modular program since the mid-90s. They can't beat the small block, simply put.

===

Now if we want to keep this thing on topic, I suggest we go back to the whole quality/reliability of American cars versus that of everyone else. We don't need another OHV vs OHC thread again...

So, it may be important to point out:

- Ford upset Toyota/Lexus last year in initial quality tests with their Fusion and company cars
- Buick has been in a deadlock with Lexus on reliability scores, Cadillac continues to float in the top five
- Sales of the Chevrolet Malibu (North American car of the year) have gone through the roof and have had to add production at the Lake Orion plant to compensate for the Fairfax assembly line
- Both the new Malibu and CTS have won numerous awards for design, quality and performance not to mention making impressive showings in every new comparison test

There is a long, long road ahead for American car companies to have the respect they would otherwise deserve, but its happening. That makes me happy, at least. Unfortunately, its only happening at General Motors and the Ford Motor Company. Acting like global corporations has helped greatly, however, they have managed to make Chrysler the laughing stock of the automotive world... Left for dead in a world where a Hyundai is a great alternative (often better) than a Toyota. Amazing.

 

[Boundary Layer]

You mean by re-using the same basic design for an engine they have had for 50 years? Saves on engineering costs I guess.

I don't really see the benefits of them going OHC with the Corvette. The reliability would probably be worse. Efficiency could be better, but this isn't exactly a family sedan.

I'm sorta playing devil's advocate here, but I thought I'd mention that for the OHV the parasitic losses may be less (fewer rotating parts, etc), the engine will be a little shorter (= lower cog), and the overall packaging can be made a bit tighter. As well, they've been able to overcome the 'rpm limit' inherent to most OHV engines by using modern materials to delay the onset of valve float, meaning they can make more power if the spark advance, flame speed & burn angle, and intake & scavenging processes are all tuned appropriately for the linear velocity of the piston at those high rpm (which they almost undoubtedly are). So, I can see a lot of reasons for them to stick with the OHV in this particular application, apart from saving on design costs (edit: infact, I really doubt they saved anything on design costs at all on the LS7)

 

[YSSMAN]

I've never heard much about design costs on the LS7, or for that matter the LS9, but generally speaking they save a lot of money by building a bunch of them and sticking it in almost everything. You can go down to your local Chevrolet dealer and order a crate 505 BHP LS7 for $15,000 (not including shipping/handling). I don't think that would even cover a 1/3 of the cost for that new BMW V8, and I sure has hell know thats a long shot for the $50K+ that it would cost for an AMG 6.2L unit.

Its that whole "everything is pretty much the same" thing that keeps costs down. All of the LS engines are related to the LQ engines, the main differences usually the type of construction and the different heads. I've seen a lot of LS1s with swapped LQ4 heads on them, and its a HUGE bonus having so many parts interchangeable... Again, costs stay down, you can really have great opportunities to tinker, and can come up with crazy-awesome results.

====

And for those who continue to say that GM is ass-backwards with the Small-Block, they are planning on adding direct-injection starting in 2009, as well as VVT on more of the different variations. As of right now, I believe only the L76 and L92 make the use of VVT in the V8 line. Match that with cylinder deactivation and E85 capability, and you're finding that these oversized, under-engineered V8s are quite capable of making loads of power while still having very decent fuel economy.

American engineers know what they're doing, they just do it differently. Screw using a calculator, change a few things around, see what happens. I like that. Its what we've always done, and will likely continue to do. I tend to appreciate that a bit more than that Japanese/German way of over thinking everything, making it too complicated and too expensive, and often coming up with mixed results (points to Nissan's 5.7L V8 and Toyota's 5.7L as well...).

We're getting there. Takes time. Ford's EcoBoost is still EPIC, and one hopes that GM has something up their sleeves to counter-it.

And Chrysler?

...They're dead to me...

 

[Thirdeye]

I've never heard much about design costs on the LS7, or for that matter the LS9, but generally speaking they save a lot of money by building a bunch of them and sticking it in almost everything. You can go down to your local Chevrolet dealer and order a crate 505 BHP LS7 for $15,000 (not including shipping/handling). I don't think that would even cover a 1/3 of the cost for that new BMW V8, and I sure has hell know thats a long shot for the $50K+ that it would cost for an AMG 6.2L unit.

Its that whole "everything is pretty much the same" thing that keeps costs down. All of the LS engines are related to the LQ engines, the main differences usually the type of construction and the different heads. I've seen a lot of LS1s with swapped LQ4 heads on them, and its a HUGE bonus having so many parts interchangeable... Again, costs stay down, you can really have great opportunities to tinker, and can come up with crazy-awesome results.

====

And for those who continue to say that GM is ass-backwards with the Small-Block, they are planning on adding direct-injection starting in 2009, as well as VVT on more of the different variations. As of right now, I believe only the L76 and L92 make the use of VVT in the V8 line. Match that with cylinder deactivation and E85 capability, and you're finding that these oversized, under-engineered V8s are quite capable of making loads of power while still having very decent fuel economy.

American engineers know what they're doing, they just do it differently. Screw using a calculator, change a few things around, see what happens. I like that. Its what we've always done, and will likely continue to do. I tend to appreciate that a bit more than that Japanese/German way of over thinking everything, making it too complicated and too expensive, and often coming up with mixed results (points to Nissan's 5.7L V8 and Toyota's 5.7L as well...).

We're getting there. Takes time. Ford's EcoBoost is still EPIC, and one hopes that GM has something up their sleeves to counter-it.

And Chrysler?

...They're dead to me...

Oh goody Direct Injection, enjoy the fuel dilution!

 

[JCE]

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE IMPALA AND NOT V8'S OR AUSSIE CARS OR AMERICAN CARS--MINUS THE IMPALA. Let's get back on the topic at hand? This subject's (American V8) been beaten to death already. I'd like to hear people discuss their personal experiences with said Impala.

 

[TopHat]

Oh yes, the old Impala is terrible. The new one is pretty ok.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think it would be fair to say that for the money, the 2006+ Impala is one of the best cars you can buy for $25K or less. I guess thats just my opinion I guess, but again, they're pretty reliable and run forever. Can't go wrong with that...

 

[JCE]

I think it would be fair to say that for the money, the 2006+ Impala is one of the best cars you can buy for $25K or less. I guess thats just my opinion I guess, but again, they're pretty reliable and run forever. Can't go wrong with that...

Errr...you do? $25k gets me a whole plethora of choices that easily beat out the Impala...and that is quite alot. Infact just about anything $25k and under is a better drive than the Impala...and that includes the Camry.

 

[niky]

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE IMPALA AND NOT V8'S OR AUSSIE CARS OR AMERICAN CARS--MINUS THE IMPALA. Let's get back on the topic at hand? This subject's (American V8) been beaten to death already. I'd like to hear people discuss their personal experiences with said Impala.

This thread has a topic? Don't all threads about American cars have to do with OHV? I'm still waiting for someone to mention "leaf springs".

 

[Casio]

All American cars can't handle because all American cars use leaf springs and weigh 5000lbs.

 

[Jim Prower]

You forgot the [/sarcasm]

 

[JCE]

This thread has a topic? Don't all threads about American cars have to do with OHV? I'm still waiting for someone to mention "leaf springs".

The topic is the first post:

So, today, I added a new entry into my Carcyclopedia. We were doing a pizza run, and my friend who owns the car we were doing the run with was...incapacitated. What does he drive?

Essentially identicle, too.

Now, here is where the "YSSMAN is insane" part comes into play: Remember how he has said in the past that the Impala isn't actually that bad of a car for the money? Well, I have always given him the benefit of the doubt. Other than the police version, I had never been in one, so I felt that I wasn't one to judge the car based on the mere fact that it was a rental bin vehicle (because the Lumina was as well, and I liked the Lumina).
Since my friend wasn't fit to operate a motor vehicle, I felt that I should be the good friend and not let him drive. So without any preparation, I drove a Chevy Impala. Let that sink in for a moment. Settled? Good.


Here is the crux of the matter, and anyone with weak constitutions should leave the room: The Chevrolet Impala is, quite frankly, the worst vehicle I have ever driven in my life. The seats had less support than a bean bag chair, so after a 3 minute drive, my back was in pain (I have a bad back from an accident a few years ago). The suspension was...well, lets say that there was a period of time where the rear springs of my Dad's Neon went through the bottom of the trunk, and that had more suspension control than this Impala did. The interior feels like it was made out of melted Legos...actually, scratch that. More like Mega Bloks. There are panel gaps you could drop dimes in perpendicular to the way the gap runs. The instrument cluster seems to be designed for people with eyes so bad they have no business driving. There was fake wood that didn't even look to be the same color as wood until it was exposed to direct sunlight (it just looked like plastic sheen from any other angle). The list goes on.

All these points make me wonder a few things: Why exactly did Chevy take a decent car and replace it with something Hertz probably doesn't even like? Are old people really that dumb to buy something like that? Where is "End my life now, because I have no business living" button? And why is the hazards button bigger than the dials on the center console? Most importantly, why haven't time machines been invented to prevent this car from being made? I almost think the Malibu on sale now deserves to fail simply because of how terrible the Impala is.


YSSMAN, you are crazy. I hope this doesn't detract from our friendship, so I am trying to get it out of the way now.

========================================

You forgot the [/sarcasm]

He better have or there'll be hell to pay.

 

[socomplayer2]

[Walks into thread][Walks out of thread]

 

[Azuremen]

[Walks into thread][Walks out of thread]

postwhore is postwhore

/irony

 

[YSSMAN]

Errr...you do? $25k gets me a whole plethora of choices that easily beat out the Impala...and that is quite alot. Infact just about anything $25k and under is a better drive than the Impala...and that includes the Camry.

I stand by that statement. While I certainly agree that $25K buys you a lot of car these days, you can get a pretty nicely equipped Impala that will run forever off a dealer lot for $21-23K. Alloy wheels, moon roof, bucket seats, iPod connectivity (with Bluetooth for 2009?), OnStar, etc... I'd say they've managed to shove a lot of value into a car that cots them $0.25 to build.

Personally speaking, I've seen stripper Camrys. No one wants a stripper Camry. You have to spend a good amount of money to even come up to the playing field where the Impala, Malibu, Accord, Altima and Passat all start.

 

[JCE]

Ford Fusion, Mazda 6, and the Subaru Legacy seemed to have been neglected by your list. All of which are a BILLION times better than any GM saloon you just mentioned.

 

[YSSMAN]

Keep in mind that the Impala is larger as well, and not suited to do the same "sporty" tasks as they. As the regular "vanilla" car for the general "vanilla" American buyer, you'd likely be looking at an Impala, Camry, Accord, Taurus and Charger. In terms of value, comfort, and overall reliability, I'd side with the Chevrolet. Better yet, spend a few extra bucks and get yourself a Buick LaCrosse. Not all W-Bodies are created equal...

 

[Tornado]

25 grand could probably buy you two used Hyundai Azeras. Or at the very least 1 new one.