YSSMAN's Infinite Crisis: Blackest Night (Post #816)

[lmracer]

YSSMAN,

here are some lesser thought on the forester.

i drove one earlier this year, and i was impressed with the build quality, but i hated the powertrain. i feel like it has less torque than it should under 2000 rpms. i may be spoiled by being able to enjoy the ultra torquey spec v for a good part of the last few years. its the same one that has been mentioned actually. i love that car. can you say quick ratio LSD six speed paired with 170 ft/lbs?

back to the forester... if you do go with this option be prepared to suffer the obnoxiously loud engine. i dont mean a good kind of loud either. its so terribly zingy at any speed over 2000 rpms that i wanted to shift up at 1500 rpms no exceptions. i didnt want take it above 4000 because it just kept getting louder. the one time i did venture north of 4000 rpms, it seemed out of breath. the power must come on really high because im sure i felt little more than 120 hp. these engine characteristics alone completely turned me off. if you have not, drive one and notice.

note: i drove a 2007 non-turbo. i did like the shifter though. a bit rubbery, but its not a sports car afterall.

 

[Swift]

I agree that it's an excellent performance car. Both of my friends' cars are tuned mostly for handling, and the cars are fantastic at that. Both of them had similar engine management problems and both of their first catalysts blew out (the one on the exhaust manifold), clogging the exhaust at the second cat and bumming the engine. They spoke as if the problems were widespread. But all is well with both now.

Yeah,. I don't understand why nissan put a pre-cat in there. But if you replace the exhaust manifold, there's not problem. I did that. and of course, the throttle response goes through the roof. Well, compared to where it was.

Thanks for the replies gentlemen! 👍

 

[Philly]

if you do go with this option be prepared to suffer the obnoxiously loud engine.

Is this a feature of all Subarus? My freind's Outback is very loud, but at least it sounds nice. We drove a 2008 Impreza 2.5 before buying the GTI and whenever you got on the gas it sounded like somebody was rattling something in a tin can. It was loud.

 

[YSSMAN]

But, in all honesty minus the snow thing why not get a GTO? You know you want to.

I'd love one, problem is, they're (on average) $5-7K outside of what I'm looking to spend on most days. And yes, I'm looking at 5.7L models.

Now, back on topic. You're probably better off getting a regular non-Impreza Subie as the insurance will be cheap enough--and it does everything well (almost perfect infact) and will last forever. Even longer than most Camaros! *cough*most*cough*

That is my general assumption. Anything with a turbo is probably going to be avoided, not just for insurance, but for gas too.

===

i drove one earlier this year, and i was impressed with the build quality, but i hated the powertrain. i feel like it has less torque than it should under 2000 rpms.

I had always understood the power map to be a bit flat, but it shouldn't be any different than my VW. I always shift between 2500-3000 RPM.

note: i drove a 2007 non-turbo. i did like the shifter though. a bit rubbery, but its not a sports car afterall.

Sounds like the shifter in the VW. The only thing I'd have to get used to is the clutch position.


====

In other good news:

I talked to my Dad about it today and he approved, but said the same thing I said before; Wait 'till spring. Yay!

 

[Keef]

I had always understood the power map to be a bit flat, but it shouldn't be any different than my VW. I always shift between 2500-3000 RPM.

I just thought this was so interesting I had to comment. I realize you're talking about driving casually, and I am too when I say that my Sol cruised down the highway at no less than 3500 rpm . My normal shifts happened at about 4500-5000 rpm.

EDIT: Brad, have you already decided that you want your car to be fairly new? I was just looking at Celicas on Auto Trader a few minutes ago and the 6th gen (last, 2000-2005) models and found that the GT models seem to be going for $7,000 to $15,000 while the GT-S models start around $9,500 and peak (for a 2004 116 miles from me) at $17,777. Having driven a Celica I know that they're decently comfortable and the GT-Ss are quite sporty in ride and handling. The car satisfies my sporty desires comletely, and is also comfortable and practical when you want it to be. Obviously it's a coupe with really tight rear seats. The GT model has plenty of power at 140, and it goes pretty damn well because it only weighs about 2550 pounds. Plus they're gorgeous and chicks dig them.

Yes, a Honda guy is recommending a Toyota. The $8,000 GT-S very near my house is making me reconsider buying it's more expensive Honda competitors...

EDIT 2:

I talked to my Dad about it today and he approved, but said the same thing I said before; Wait 'till spring. Yay!

Seems logical to me that it'd be easier to get a bargain on a car during the winter. Who the heck wants to stand out in the freezing cold to look at a car? Aren't dealers desperate to sell something when they're covered in snow?

 

[Tornado]

I suggest a Baja. Particularly, if you can get one, a turbo. They are cheap, probably easy to insure, and a pretty cool idea to boot.

 

[lmracer]

I had always understood the power map to be a bit flat, but it shouldn't be any different than my VW. I always shift between 2500-3000 RPM.

but what about dead-stop accelerating? do you drive around town moving yourself from a stop at 2500-3000 rpms? that is where it felt a bit doggy.

 

[Sage]

Is this a feature of all Subarus? My freind's Outback is very loud, but at least it sounds nice. We drove a 2008 Impreza 2.5 before buying the GTI and whenever you got on the gas it sounded like somebody was rattling something in a tin can. It was loud.

Yeah, my mom’s Outback is quite loud – but at least it’s a boxer engine, so it’s a fantastic-sounding loud. It makes all other 4-cyl engines sound like vacuum cleaners.

 

[lmracer]

Yeah, my mom’s Outback is quite loud – but at least it’s a boxer engine, so it’s a fantastic-sounding loud. It makes all other 4-cyl engines sound like vacuum cleaners.

blah.. this was not a good kind of loud. i do like a WRX boxer loud, but this was like a Briggs & Stratton single cylinder loud. super zingy and annoying

 

[niky]

I agree that it's an excellent performance car. Both of my friends' cars are tuned mostly for handling, and the cars are fantastic at that. Both of them had similar engine management problems and both of their first catalysts blew out (the one on the exhaust manifold), clogging the exhaust at the second cat and bumming the engine. They spoke as if the problems were widespread. But all is well with both now.

Forgot about the engine management thing... it's a sensor that goes out... also on 2003 models. Also a warranty issue.

That pre-cat thing is what I was talking about... pre-cats on 2003s tended to come apart and little bits and pieces of them got ingested on start-up, as the engine cleared its lungs and sucked a tiny amount of air back in through the exhaust... caused quite a commotion in the Nissan community when the issue came out.

But since both are warranty issues, both should already have been addressed on the one for sale on the previous page... and if that one has had its engine die due to pre-cat ingestion, you're looking at a 2003 with a newer engine... sweet deal.

I'm not saying the spec V is the end all be all, but as far as FF sport coupes/sedans go, it's certainly top tier. What other car would be better in that price range and drivetrain?

Uhh... sst... Mazdaspeed Protege... although the turbo might be considered cheating... both are excellent road/track/autocross cars... the Protege has the advantage of a turbo... the Spec V has the six-stick. Both have helical limited slip differentials and sporty tuning. In handling and on-track, they're very similar... I'd say the Proty is better, but, again, I'm biased.

Either car is a winner if you're looking for something that's awfully fun to drive and good on gas, and if you're looking for a quick way to get into low-level motorsports. (The other good way is through the Miata... but that'll put you up against some hardcore enthusiasts). Most of the other issues with either car (aside from the ones already mentioned) seem to only arise from track abuse and poor maintenance.

-----

As a practical choice, the Forester seems to be the top for this board. It's a good car to drive (though not quite exciting, at least better than average), and if you ever get to wrenching, it's got potential. I wouldn't mind owning one myself.

 

[JCE]

I'd love one, problem is, they're (on average) $5-7K outside of what I'm looking to spend on most days. And yes, I'm looking at 5.7L models.

Too bad, 2004 models are going for cheap down here.

 

[YSSMAN]

I just thought this was so interesting I had to comment. I realize you're talking about driving casually, and I am too when I say that my Sol cruised down the highway at no less than 3500 rpm . My normal shifts happened at about 4500-5000 rpm.

I'm used to the rather-lazy VW four-pot crusing along at 2500-3000 RPM at most speeds, lol.

EDIT: Brad, have you already decided that you want your car to be fairly new? I was just looking at Celicas on Auto Trader a few minutes ago and the 6th gen (last, 2000-2005) models and found that the GT models seem to be going for $7,000 to $15,000 while the GT-S models start around $9,500 and peak (for a 2004 116 miles from me) at $17,777.

New-ish would be great, as even circa-2000 cars are getting old. My price cap is pretty much $10K (I'll be placing a $2000 down-payment, presumably), give or take a bit. I have to see what the finance rates look like, I'm not sure. I really can't afford much more than $200 a month... Maybe more, maybe less depending on my promotion that may/may not happen at work.

EDIT 2:
Seems logical to me that it'd be easier to get a bargain on a car during the winter. Who the heck wants to stand out in the freezing cold to look at a car? Aren't dealers desperate to sell something when they're covered in snow?

Normally its in the Spring and in the Fall that dealers sell-off most of their cars. Its weird around here...

I suggest a Baja. Particularly, if you can get one, a turbo. They are cheap, probably easy to insure, and a pretty cool idea to boot.

I do not fault your logic, as I'd love to have a bed to just throw stuff in. Problem is, they're pretty hard to come by around here, which is odd in itself. The only ones I've been able to find with a stick have been 2005+ models with the turbo (ie, too much money).

As a practical choice, the Forester seems to be the top for this board. It's a good car to drive (though not quite exciting, at least better than average), and if you ever get to wrenching, it's got potential. I wouldn't mind owning one myself.

I'm thinking its the general consensus. When I told my Dad he was quite happy, which is odd, because hes just as much of a GM/VW guy as I am. I'd love to get a 2004 XT and fit it with all the fancy sporting parts, but the pocketbook says no. I just want a nice car that will last for a long while... One that I'll enjoy too.

Too bad, 2004 models are going for cheap down here.

I found an early 5.7L model for sale here over the summer for a pretty "reasonable" $17K. Problem is, most cars like it were valued at over $20K, so there was something clearly wrong.

The GTO is a lovely car, and I'd really love to have one. But I don't think my means can justify those ends at the moment. Crap.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I think it’s a great vehicle.

I'll second that, Subarus are excellent cars 👍

If there's anything that ever touched the reliability of the Toyotas we've had, it's Subaru (the VR6 Passat only lasted for a year So much for your VW...). But anyway, we're currently driving 2 Subarus as well, one of them a 1986 model which still runs without too much problems, except for the smell it leaves behind of gasoline...

But I'd certainly recommend a Forester, sure, I can't compare Norwegian conditions and roads to the American, but still, the Forester is not for nothing a very popular car over here

 

[Thirdeye]

I'm used to the rather-lazy VW four-pot crusing along at 2500-3000 RPM at most speeds, lol.



New-ish would be great, as even circa-2000 cars are getting old. My price cap is pretty much $10K (I'll be placing a $2000 down-payment, presumably), give or take a bit. I have to see what the finance rates look like, I'm not sure. I really can't afford much more than $200 a month... Maybe more, maybe less depending on my promotion that may/may not happen at work.



Normally its in the Spring and in the Fall that dealers sell-off most of their cars. Its weird around here...



I do not fault your logic, as I'd love to have a bed to just throw stuff in. Problem is, they're pretty hard to come by around here, which is odd in itself. The only ones I've been able to find with a stick have been 2005+ models with the turbo (ie, too much money).



I'm thinking its the general consensus. When I told my Dad he was quite happy, which is odd, because hes just as much of a GM/VW guy as I am. I'd love to get a 2004 XT and fit it with all the fancy sporting parts, but the pocketbook says no. I just want a nice car that will last for a long while... One that I'll enjoy too.



I found an early 5.7L model for sale here over the summer for a pretty "reasonable" $17K. Problem is, most cars like it were valued at over $20K, so there was something clearly wrong.

The GTO is a lovely car, and I'd really love to have one. But I don't think my means can justify those ends at the moment. Crap.

Some other recommendations:

2000-2004 Celica (you can find them for around 10k and they're bulletproof)
2002-2005 RSX (you can find them for around 10k again, the '05 has the most HP and they're very reliable cars, and also quick)

I knew someone that had a newer Celica with 100k on it with only normal maintenance, not a single thing went wrong with that car.

And if you decide to go with a Subaru, they're a great choice especially considering our climate and the fact that I see a lot of them around, the prices might not be too sky high. Just be careful because I heard that some of the 2.5's have head gasket issues. Other than that, they're pretty reliable cars

 

[///M-Spec]

Since you seem fond of V-dubs, a Mk IV Jetta Wolfsburg should also be in your price range.

And unless I missed it, I can't imagine why you wouldn't consider an early WRX if you're looking at Subarus. It sounds like the extra room the Forester offers isn't that critical if you're also considering a Miata.

An F-bod would be fun. FWIW, I think the Camaro is way nicer looking than the Firechicken. What are the chances of finding a relatively unmolested one in your area? You would probably need to invest in some snow tires for the winter months, though.

And since you've expressed admiration for BMWs in the past, late E36s and early E46s also fall within your price range. I think a '99 328is Coupe is a pretty nice car. Snow tires would also be a good choice with this car.

Miata: Two thumbs up 👍 👍

You seem a bit all over the place with your choices. Looks almost like my thead It might help you pick if you narrow the requirements down a little.


M

 

[Keef]

2000-2004 Celica (you can find them for around 10k and they're bulletproof)
2002-2005 RSX (you can find them for around 10k again, the '05 has the most HP and they're very reliable cars, and also quick)

Like I mentioned, later-year Celicas, even the GTs, seem to average above $10,000. Also I know RSXs are out of YSSMAN's league without even looking at them. I doubt you could find an Type-S at all for under 10 grand because they're so desirable. If older Hondas are any clue, I'd say that RSXs are always going to be more expensive than a comparable Celica.

But the only thing the Celica has on its side is fun. It's a fabulous car to drive. Other than that the Forester is "better" in every way.

 

[YSSMAN]

Since you seem fond of V-dubs, a Mk IV Jetta Wolfsburg should also be in your price range.

They were the original choice, but I'm scared to death by the 1.8T. Insurance isn't cheap either...

An F-bod would be fun. FWIW, I think the Camaro is way nicer looking than the Firechicken. What are the chances of finding a relatively unmolested one in your area? You would probably need to invest in some snow tires for the winter months, though.

Thats what I had been thinking, pick up a 4th Gen Camaro when the new ones debut. But now that we're looking at March '09 before they're officially out, I don't want to wait that long. Either way, traction control + snow tires + sand bags FTW. Wouldn't be that bad. I can handle the payments and the gasoline, but insurance is going to kill me.

And since you've expressed admiration for BMWs in the past, late E36s and early E46s also fall within your price range. I think a '99 328is Coupe is a pretty nice car. Snow tires would also be a good choice with this car.

I've considered them, but I don't know much about them collectively. I'd be more worried about the cost of parts and maintenance in general. Funny that you mention the 328i, it was the BMW I fell in love with the first time. Well, a 328ci anyway...

Miata: Two thumbs up 👍 👍

So odd that its between a Miata and a Forester... lol

You seem a bit all over the place with your choices. Looks almost like my thead It might help you pick if you narrow the requirements down a little.

Yeah, completely understandable.

I think the main criteria is pretty much that it has to be cheap, fun to drive, and easy to work on if need be. The Miata is a clear winner there, but the weather factor (Michigan snow, ice and other crap) knocks it down a few points.

Of realisitic choices, I'd say that the Miata and the Forester pretty much dominate here. After I saw a late-model Nissan Maxima SE with the stick the other day, that kinda shot back up the list too.

Ugh. So far the best thing I have is a $10K price cap...

===

Also I know RSXs are out of YSSMAN's league without even looking at them.

Pretty much. A friend of mine had one in High School, and I wasn't all that impressed with it to begin with.

...If I'd be looking at newer Acuras it would have to be a TSX (too expensive) or a late-model CL-S...

 

[Jim Prower]

Now, which Miata are we talking, here, NA or NB? the NC's too new, so I doubt that's the one you're looking at.

 

[///M-Spec]

You should get a hardtop for the Miata. It will extend the life of the top and give you a little better isolation from the weather..

Why does the 1.8T scare you?


M

 

[Philly]

I would assume you are scared of the insurance on the 1.8T. It looks like a good engine. Did they sell the 1.6 here? That might be a good alternative. A TDI model might also be a good investment. In the same class, have you looked into A4s or possibly even an IS? There have to be a few of those in your price range although they might be of slightly questionable condition.

On the BMWs, a few years ago I got a good ride in a family friend's 328 E36. I don't think I need to say much more than that I have loved that car ever since. We almost bought the car; I was mad we didn't, until the VW came along.

And I probably wouldn't go the way of the Acura CL. I was talking to an owner of a different model and the general rule is that for early Japanese luxury cars, you will be looking at a pretty low up front cost but probably wind up putting much more than you want into repairs.

 

[YSSMAN]

Now, which Miata are we talking, here, NA or NB? the NC's too new, so I doubt that's the one you're looking at.

I'd personally prefer an NB Miata, but the NA would be super-cheap. If I could ever convince my Aunt to sell me her '96 M-Spec, that would be just about perfect for me.

...Taking a quick look at Edmunds, I see that I can get a '99 NB for less than $8K without much of a problem. Hrm, that may not be bad after all...

You should get a hardtop for the Miata. It will extend the life of the top and give you a little better isolation from the weather..

Of course, its a prerequisite for any soft-top around here. My Aunt has one on hers for the winter in Chicago/Southern Michigan, I'd likely do the same.

Why does the 1.8T scare you?

I've heard a lot about it burning oil, blowing out turbochargers, and just other issues that I'm not sure I could handle if I didn't know the car was really well taken care of to begin with. Plus, it requires premium-only (no, its not a HUGE deal), and is only slightly more efficent than the unit I have now.

Meh, I guess it comes down to replacement part costs. Thats what scares me the most about Volkswagens.


==========


EDIT:

Just went clicking around eBay, found an s-load of Miatas for pretty cheap. I'll have to drive both to be completely certain, but I'm almost leaning more towards the Miata now. We'll have to see what Dad (probably Grandpa too) says, and go from there. I don't need a lot of space, I just like having it.

 

[JCE]

YSS, as a former Maxima owner twice over I have to unfortunately not recommend it...the insurance is not cheap due to them (the newer ones) being targets of theft. If you can afford the insurance get one of these with a 6spd manual and you'll love it:

Remember the 2000-2001 model Maximas still had the VG30 in them (222bhp), you'll need to get a 2002-2003 in this generation to get the VQ35 (245bhp).

 

[Keef]

Brad, with a price cap like that you might have to start digging back a few more years to get these nicer cars you want. Seems like your (more) mature tastes are putting you in a bind.

EDIT: I was going to force you to consider an EM1 or EM2, but seeing as I can't find an EM1 to suit me, and both cars are still to expensive, I'll pass. There's barely a late-90s Integra GSR in your (much less my own) range! Damn Hondas for being so expensive...

 

[YSSMAN]

Yeah, I realized the price cap is pretty crippling. That pretty much limits it to $10K no matter what, assuming that I can get $2000 out of my Jetta for a down payment. As long as gas stays expensive-ish, it shouldn't be a problem. More strange, when gas was creeping closer to $4.00 a gallon, it actually exceeded the price I paid for the car nearly three years ago ($2500).

I clicked around with Miatas and Foresters today and I found that the Mazda is significantly cheaper almost everywhere I went. Beyond that, its an extra $20 a month cheaper to insure, actually $10 less than what my current payments are. The Miata is looking really good right now, I really need to drive one, but its that pesky snow/ice combo that we get every year that throws a kink in that plan. Then again, I can get a set of Blizzaks for a little more than $300...

===

Damn me and my so-so-paying job!

 

[TopHat]

Oldsmobile Aurora? With the V6 its still a nice as hell car.

Woo Chrysler 300M! Awesome car.

I think they're both pretty good cars.

 

[Keef]

I clicked around with Miatas and Foresters today and I found that the Mazda is significantly cheaper almost everywhere I went. Beyond that, its an extra $20 a month cheaper to insure, actually $10 less than what my current payments are. The Miata is looking really good right now, I really need to drive one, but its that pesky snow/ice combo that we get every year that throws a kink in that plan. Then again, I can get a set of Blizzaks for a little more than $300...

===

Damn me and my so-so-paying job!

Proper snow tires are quite the problem solver I hear. The only real problem you'll encounter if a good set is equipped will be ground clearance. My car would have turned into a snowplow at anything over 5 inches even though the tires had plenty of snow grip. Good thing it's flat as a pancake up there!

 

[YSSMAN]

Oldsmobile Aurora? With the V6 its still a nice as hell car.

Woo Chrysler 300M! Awesome car.

I think they're both pretty good cars.

One problem: Automatic transmissions

 

[TopHat]

You could get a Focus.

 

[Keef]

Problem solved. Eh, but it's hard to find SVT Foci for under $10,000. This one happens to be 8 miles from my house, woo! *edits list*

There were 3 for under 10K in a 100 mile search.

 

[YSSMAN]

I've been considering a Focus as well, but they're hard to find how I like them (usually a ZTW with the Mazda-built 2.3L I4 and a stick). Otherwise, they're not a bad option. However, I don't know if they'd be nearly as "cheap" as a Miata, or as reliable as the Subaru.