YSSMAN's Infinite Crisis: Blackest Night (Post #816)

[YSSMAN]

Official Update of YSSMAN's "Infinite Crisis"

As if Christmas Day, 2007​

So, I've been doing some thinking and things are a bit tough. With near-certainty, I'm hoping to have a new car by the end of the school year, but of course there are still plenty of variables that may in fact derail that plan completely.

So, an updated list of requirements:

- Must be no more than $10,000 USD (give or take $2,500 depending)
- Looking for $300 or less collective car payment + insurance payment
- Fun-to-drive is first and foremost
- Cheap
- Fuel-friendly
- Reliable (should be higher?)

...The biggest wildcard, living in Michigan, as always is the snow...

The top two cars (thus far) have been such:

- The Subaru Forester (pre-2003?): Moderately reliable, pretty well-built, but falls short on the fuel economy and fun-to-drive factor. Insurance isn't nearly as cheap as I'd expect either, which is unfortunate. They're pretty easy to find in Michigan, which is a bonus, but I'm unsure of pre-2002 updated models. Getting into that year range gets very expensive.

- The Mazda Miata (NA & NB): For the most part, the Mazda meets every criteria. They're really cheap to buy (I've found nice, low-mileage NA models for less than $7000), really cheap to insure (less than my Jetta), cheap to fuel, cheap to fix, and overall don't require much fixing in the first place. Thing is, we've got this thing called snow, and we occasionally get a lot of it. As much as eight inches in a few hours the other night... That causes problems. BIG PROBLEMS.

====

Recent developments:

The $10K cap and the preferred $300 monthly fee, for the most part, is all that I can afford. At most. That would pretty much eliminate any kind of long-distance travel (unless I get a raise at work), and most other "non-important" things as well.

That being said, two new vehicles have recently landed in my lap:

- 2002 Honda Civic Si Hatchback: After seeing one on the highway yesterday, it got me thinking... I really don't "hate" Hondas all that much, I love the hatchback body style, and they certainly aren't that slow either. They seem to be cheap-ish to run, cost the same to insure as my car, and can be had for $9000 or less these days... That is, if you can find one unmolested.

- 1995-1998 BMW E36 328: This is Doug's suggestion, as discussed in private. The price is certainly low, and the insurance rates actually aren't that bad either. Thing is, replacement parts scare the living hell out of me, and they not being of newer generations, I'm even less knowledgeable of the cars themselves. Snow is still an issue with the RWD models, but good tires can fix that. I have no idea what gas would be like either...

- 1999-2001 BMW E46 323: I've already been yelled at for this one, but it seems like a logical step forward. See above for similar reasonings.

====

My mood changes from time-to-time, and that is unfortunate. The cars seem to be a bit consistent, and I'm still weighing my options. I just wish the damn snow wasn't this much of a problem....

I think the title says it all... The guy who normally would shop only at the GM and VW dealers is actually considering a Subaru to replace the Jetta.

What Subaru you may be wondering?

One of these:

Thats a Subaru Forester, if you didn't know...

Yes, its a fairly drastic change of pace for me. My Volkswagen has been giving me some troubles as of late (its 12 years old now), and I'm not looking to spend much money, if any at all, to keep it running. Its still a solid car and would happily go to 220K if I let it, but I'm not in the mood to make it so. So, with the weather these past few weeks, I went about making a list of cars that would be appealing to me, and consequently, the Subaru came out at (or near) the top every time.

The general listings:

- Subaru Forester
- Mazda Miata
- Mazda Protege
- Ford Focus
- Volkswagen Golf GTI VR6 MKIV
- Chevrolet Cobalt Coupe
- Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

Its tough. Insurance has to be cheap-ish (preferably less than $150 a month) and I can't afford much of a car payment either (preferably around $200). The Subaru, I've found, isn't much more to insure than my own VW. The only car that is cheaper would be the Miata (weird?). Most of the cars are fairly easy on gas, seem to be built fairly well-ish, and fit my driving style when need be. Sticks are required across the board, obviously, with a fair amount of "fun to drive" factor baked-in.

So, I dunno. So far, the Subaru sits on top. I'd love to get a 2004+ XT, but thats about $5000 more than what I want to spend right now (God knows what insurance would be like). I'm looking at 2003+ XS models (thats with the 174 BHP H4), but they're difficult to find around here with a stick.

===

So, basically, what do you think?

Are parts expensive? Are they really all that reliable (from what I've read, its usually good)? Any Subaru owners in general want to chime in?

I'm not looking to buy anything until the spring, maybe. I've got to get some bills sorted out after taxes are done, and then I'm going shopping. I've never driven a Forester, but I like the idea of it, so I may have to wait and see how I feel about it.

...Just thinking. Feel free to make suggestions...

 

[exigeracer]

The Forester is a very competent vehicle, sitting right between SUV and regular wagon. Very popular mods are the Impreza's suspension and steering rack, making it feel that little bit more car-like, but still maintaining the Forester's practical package. I'd recommend looking into that.

 

[Sage]

I think it’s a great vehicle. My mom’s 2000 Outback constantly has its engine light on, but that’s most likely because the rats have chewed up the wiring – otherwise, it’s a fine vehicle. We’ve never had to replace anything except the clutch, so I’ve no idea about prices on mechanical bits. It’s not exactly my cup of tea handling-wise (a bit floppy), but I’m sure that the Forester is one of the better-handling SUVs out there. And I so wish every single car had a hill-holder clutch. 👍

If this were my money though, I would buy the Miata in a heartbeat – the only reason I’m not currently driving a dark purple Miata LS from a Honda dealer in northern LA is because my dad was concerned about practicality (and he was putting in most of the money, so I had to concede). I adore 2nd-gen Miatas more than anything in the world.

 

[Philly]

The general listings:

- Subaru Forester
- Mazda Miata
- Mazda Protege
- Ford Focus
- Volkswagen Golf GTI VR6 MKIV
- Chevrolet Cobalt Coupe
- Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

My tops from that list would be the GTI, Miata and Protege. I really like those Miatas. They are little rockets. Cheap, bullet proof and quick. Practicality would be an issue. I am also really impressed with the Proteges. They feel light, are pretty quick and probably wouldn't be too much to pay for. I do not know much about their reliability though. My cousin had one. I might talk to her about it.

Naturally my top would be the GTI. Quick, well built, and a VW. Not sure of reliability, but there is some guy here who has one I might be able to talk to. I've heard the MKIV wasn't true to the GTI nameplate like the early cars were, but I'm sure a V6 will help that out quite a lot. You can also do a lot to those cheaply if you are interested in mods.

That said, I don't really have anything against the Scooby. They are pretty well built from what I know. We had a 1995 legacy for a while, but I can't recall if we had much trouble with it. I also have a friend with a 1996 Outback stick which he picked up for $2000. It's a good car, but not anything especially nice. A newer Forester might be better though.

I would personally avoid the Camaro and Cobalt (unless it was an SS), but that is mostly based on GM's track record up until the last couple years. Same goes for the Focus (SVT aside). But I'm sure you know more about these cars, and it will be you who is test driving and making the final call.

And I wouldn't be surprised if you could pick up a year old bunny for the prices you are looking at. Or even a Cooper....

 

[Zrow]

Miatas handle like go-karts. If you can rationalize owning one as your daily driver, do it.

 

[YSSMAN]

The only bad thing I had ever heard about the Subaru was that the clutches can go out well-before 100K on the clock, and knowing how expensive it was to just replace one in my VW, I can't imagine replacing four.

I'm heavily considering it, I've just got to find one at the right price nearby. The Miata is in a very close second, but like others have said, the practicality of it brings it up short in the end. That, and the weather issues... Then again, I rarely have more than one other person in the car, and if it can carry golf clubs, thats all I really ever carry otherwise. Plus, they're cheap all the way around, and I'm sure I could easily work on it myself.

Bah, I'll have to drive both first...

===

And I wouldn't be surprised if you could pick up a year old bunny for the prices you are looking at. Or even a Cooper....

I'm worried about rates overall on the Rabbit, both insurance and finance.

As for the Cooper, the nearest dealer is three hours away, and I don't want to deal with that.

 

[Philly]

I'm heavily considering it, I've just got to find one at the right price nearby. The Miata is in a very close second, but like others have said, the practicality of it brings it up short in the end. That, and the weather issues... Then again, I rarely have more than one other person in the car, and if it can carry golf clubs, thats all I really ever carry otherwise. Plus, they're cheap all the way around, and I'm sure I could easily work on it myself.

Bah, I'll have to drive both first...

I can imagine that comparing a Miata and a Forester on a drive will be quite tough. I would also be a little concerned for a soft top. You might want to make sure you have a covered place to keep the thing if you would up on one.

I'm worried about rates overall on the Rabbit, both insurance and finance.

As for the Cooper, the nearest dealer is three hours away, and I don't want to deal with that.

A bit of good haggling and a year old car brought our VW at least $5k under the price of a new car similarly equipped. And if they aren't moving too well out here, that might just make haggling with the dealer easier if they are trying to get rid of the cars. Getting around insurance would be hard though....

And I forgot about the MINI dealer situation. I guess that puts it out of the question.

 

[Sage]

Of course, if the Miata is too impractical, you could go for its sibling, the Mazda 3. (Not that I’m impartial.) I just took a quick look through AutoTrader, and you can get a used 2006 Mazda 3 s stick for $15k.

 

[Thirdeye]

Ever consider the Subaru Baja? You can usually find them for a pretty good deal because for some reason they're unpopular but I think they're practical and pretty cool to be honest. I like the practicality of being able to haul things without actually having to take the big gas mileage hit from a full-size pickup.

 

[Thirdeye]

Another good possibility:

2003 Nissan Sentra SE-R, 6-speed Manual, 30 minutes from Grand Rapids depending on where you're leaving from
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...08&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=12

 

[juana b.]

What prompted me to buy a new Subaru in 2000 was a friend of mine who bought a new ‘96, put 250,000 miles on it, and punished it severely (to say the least. We each lived/worked miles away from paved roads in northern California.) I put 100,000 miles on mine without a glitch, not even a turn signal bulb or anything, sold it, and have secretly yearned for the handling of their AWD chassis's again(wife wouldn't go for "boy racer" looks of STI, needed 4 drs, so got a Volvo S60-R:tup:) . Since then, the said friend, has gotten a '06 and couldn't be happier. I don't think Subaru would get worse at making cars….
The Baja is seriously ugly though, just like the Brat.... sorry Thirdeye

 

[niky]

I'm biased for the Protege because I own/modify/wreck one. If you're looking at one, known issues are bushings that start clunking if you live in a very cold state and a clutch that shudders (replaceable and should have been replaced under warranty) on the 2.0 MP3 (which is so ridiculously rare that you're probably looking at just getting an ES or the less rare turbocharged Mazdaspeed Protege... ...any other issues will be engine-related from owners blowing them up from driving too hard. If you find a virgin one, it's a decent engine.

It's a small car that handles pretty well, corners like a front-wheel drive BMW and has a good bit of torque. But unless you're getting the MSP, doesn't have **** for power.

The Forester sounds pretty good... a 2.5 liter manual-equipped one would be great... it handles well for what is basically a truck on a sedan platform, has lots of room (although I find the back seats a bit cramped) and has a pretty big boot. And best of all... it used to be part-owned by GM! A wnnah!

Miata? Is this going to be your only car? Don't think so. It's nice to dream, though...

EDIT: SE-R... hmmm... torquey mother, six speed... is that a Spec V with the limited slip? Not a bad car, as long as it isn't a 2003 with the catalytic converter recall... but if it is (oh, it is a 2003), make sure that the recall was done and that the engine actually turns over.

 

[Slick6]

I have nothing bad to say about Subaru's. I think the build quality is very excellent. Mechanical wise, parts and labor can be expensive, but with the way cars are built nowadays, almost anything is going to cost some coin to fix. I'd say in general, your basic mechanical and body parts will cost about the same as any competitor's manufacturer. Now, water pumps, fuel pumps, ignitions, etc. will be a bit pricey. The powertrains in Subarus are extremely reliable though, so unless you get a lemon, you'll probably never have to put any money into it for the first 150k miles. As far as clutches going out at 100k, I wouldn't believe any of it. Clutch wear depends on who drives the car. Realistically, any clutch in a modern day production car should last at least 100,000 miles. On to the all wheel drive. The first time you have to drive in inclement weather, you'll grin from ear to ear. (Unless you've driven an AWD previously.) The experience isn't like driving any FWD car or 4WD pickup. If Michigan often dips below 15 degrees, I'd recommend making sure you have a block heater, as they do start a little rough. It was -15 here last week and my car still started, but it's a lot easier on them if they're plugged in. If the car doesn't have one, you can do it yourself for about $45 and it's very straightforward.

I don't know if I helped you at all, but if you have any particular questions, please ask. I didn't really know what specifics you wanted. Once you go AWD you won't want anything else.

 

[G.T]

I suggest talking to The Cracker[/i] about the Forester. If I recall correctly he owns one. 👍

 

[Thirdeye]

...

EDIT: SE-R... hmmm... torquey mother, six speed... is that a Spec V with the limited slip? Not a bad car, as long as it isn't a 2003 with the catalytic converter recall... but if it is (oh, it is a 2003), make sure that the recall was done and that the engine actually turns over.

I wasn't aware of any recall, but I've always loved those cars. They look very similar to my old '98 Altima, except on steroids! Good call though.

 

[Sage]

The first time you have to drive in inclement weather, you'll grin from ear to ear. (Unless you've driven an AWD previously.) The experience isn't like driving any FWD car or 4WD pickup.

I’ll ditto that. I’ve driven every drivetrain on icy roads (RWD, FWD, AWD, and 4WD), and driving a Subaru on an icy road is just… uncanny. You know you’re driving on ice, and yet the car sticks to the road as if it were a hot summer day.

 

[TheCracker]

I suggest talking to The Cracker[/i] about the Forester. If I recall correctly he owns one. 👍

James is quite right, i do have a Forester and love it to bits 👍

They are fairly basic and agricultural, depending on spec. Mine now has 85k and has had nothing go wrong on it, apart from a clutch and timing belt change that the dealer did for me when i bought it.

On the road it drives like a car with a slightly higher center of gravity - which is pretty much what it is, rather than other 4x4's. It also has plenty of space inside for a car of it's modest size, with great boot space.

I'd get another one again like a shot and i'd highly recommend one to someone who lives in a changeable climate 👍

 

[a6m5]

Forester is a nice choice. 👍 I've been looking into used cars myself, from Scion to Cadillac. AWD would be interesting, especially this time of the year.....

 

[Jim Prower]

Could you get the Forester XT? little WRX mill would make that thing a wagon 'o fun. :3

 

[Philly]

I'm sure you could pick up a pretty cheap Outback if you had to go the ways of the Subaru. Or maybe go a few years older, get one that needs the headers fixed (a $500 job) for dirt cheap and then do a little engine swap.

 

[Pako]

I say go for it! 👍

I love my Subaru...., not the weird kind of love, but the manly kind of love.

 

[JCE]

A Forester is a pretty good vehicle all around. However, if you don't get a Legacy estate then I'd get one of these...

Ever consider the Subaru Baja? You can usually find them for a pretty good deal because for some reason they're unpopular but I think they're practical and pretty cool to be honest. I like the practicality of being able to haul things without actually having to take the big gas mileage hit from a full-size pickup.

I really like these, they do almost everything you might need them to do on an average day.

Another good possibility:

2003 Nissan Sentra SE-R, 6-speed Manual, 30 minutes from Grand Rapids depending on where you're leaving from
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...08&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=12

I love those baby Skylines. Definately my favorite Nissan before the 350Z came out in '03 (minus the 6spd Maxima). The '04 SE-R had a stupid face and looked like ass. That front end on that model in that picture is the best thing since sliced bread. All it needs is the SE-R emblem in the grille instead of the Nissan one like the real Skyline.

 

[Jim Prower]

I love those baby Skylines. Definately my favorite Nissan before the 350Z came out in '03 (minus the 6spd Maxima). The '04 SE-R had a stupid face and looked like ass. That front end on that model in that picture is the best thing since sliced bread. All it needs is the SE-R emblem in the grille instead of the Nissan one like the real Skyline.

Thing about the '04-ups that really irked me was that they just used a standard Sentra nose. The way you identified it was if it was in an outrageous color.

 

[Keef]

Another good possibility:

2003 Nissan Sentra SE-R, 6-speed Manual, 30 minutes from Grand Rapids depending on where you're leaving from
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...08&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=12

That's an awful choice. I have two friends with 2003 and 2004 Sentra SE-Rs and both cars have already died and been brought back to life. When a car dies at 35,000 miles it's pitiful. Problems abound with these cars.

 

[Swift]

Wow, you guys are pretty hard on the Spec V. I've owned one for almost 4 years now. It's been great. More torque then almost every car in it's class and even some above it's class. Yeah, it's a challenge to drive, but that makes it fun.

It's a good car for someone wanting speed and to keep in a budget at the same time.

I'm sorry that your friend's cars have had a hard time. But I've autocrossed this car and been competitive. In fact, an instructor got in my car and got a good enough time to win our division. Scary stuff.

I'm not saying the spec V is the end all be all, but as far as FF sport coupes/sedans go, it's certainly top tier. What other car would be better in that price range and drivetrain?

 

[FoolKiller]

YSSMAN, say it isn't so.

I just looked out into the parking lot and there is water dripping from my Rabbit's headlights. You made Jack cry. I hope you're happy.



Seriously, I am not big on any non Impreza Subaru, but it is your car and what suits you best. I know making the decision is hard. I had a very strict list of what I had to have on my car and everything and I found myself going from one dealer to the next, test driving cars that didn't meet my specifications with promises that I could get it added on, and even trying cars that weren't close to my list just in case.

Whatever you get I am sure it will make you happy, even if bunnies are crying because of it.

 

[YSSMAN]

Could you get the Forester XT? little WRX mill would make that thing a wagon 'o fun. :3

That was my origional car to go and find, but I saw that they were holding an extra $5000 over the XS, and I didn't really think it was worth it. The Forester XS is actually about a second quicker to 60 MPH than what my current car is, thats a bonus, but it isn't like its amazingly fast either.

...Throw in insurance, gas, etc, I don't think I can afford an XT no matter how badly I really want one (for sleeper purposes of course)...

===

On the Sentra SE-R Spec-V

I fell in love with that particular generation of Sentra when it debuted, but by the end, I wasn't so sure on the car. I know that the 2.5L I4 is a pretty solid unit, but I don't have much knowledge on the rest of the car. I'd be worried about insurance, again. I'm really not looking to spend more than $150 a month on full-coverage.

===

On the seriousness of the Miata

For the most part, it is dependent on how weather has been, is, and will be. Today it was freezing rain and general slushyness... Not good for a RWD sports car. I like them because they're cheap and really fun to drive (my Aunt has one, goes back and fourth between Chicago and New Buffalo, MI all year in the snow), but its that pesky weather.

===

More on the Forester at hand

I'm happy to hear that those who are in the know have good reports on the quality, its something that I'm always a bit weary of (particularly after owning a Volkswagen). I heard about the clutch stuff over at Whatcar.co.uk (always check around I say!), but if it isn't a huge deal here in the US, I won't be too worried about it. The only other questionable thing I found was that the wheel bearings can go bad too, but those aren't too hard to replace either.

As for driving AWD versus FWD, my Dad has had vans and trucks with AWD in the past, so I've got an idea what its like. It would be much-appreciated in the winter months, particularly when my road generally goes un-plowed for days at a time. Generally speaking though, AWD wasn't the only reason why I had considered the Forester. The extra space in the boot is a HUGE bonus for me, furthermore, there would actually be room for extra folks in the car as well.

I may go out to the Subaru dealer later this week and talk to them about it. I'm really not in the market until spring time, after I get some bills worked out, so we'll see what happens with that. I'll just have to keep the VW soldiering on for now...

===

On other Subarus

I had considered the Baja at one time, but the only ones I could find more easily were later turbocharger models with a stick (did I mention that most cars I plan on owning MUST have a stick?). But, in general, they are cheaper than the Forester with the same level of spec.

I know Doug has talked to me about a WRX before, but like the Forester XT, insurance and fuel mileage is an issue. However, I have considered the other Impreza, preferably the Outback Sport, instead of the Forester. Its a bit smaller, gets a bit better fuel mileage, and still has that AWD bonus. Thing is, they seem to be a bit harder to find around here...

===

On deserting my beloved Volkswagen

I'm disappointed in myself too, don't worry. The thing is, between the MKIII models (what I have) and the current MKV crop, quality significantly dropped. I'm really not interested in spending big-bucks to keep another VW running, no matter how much I like them (excuse me, LOVE them). I'd be really interested in a VR6 GTI or a VR6 4MOTION Passat, but again, I don't think I can afford the payments or the insurance collectively.

...Trust me, if I could afford a new Rabbit or a Jetta, I'd have one in a heartbeat. I love my Vee-Dubs with all my heart, but unfortunately the pocket book doesn't allow for that right now...

===

Other thoughts

I'm just poking around a bit, but the Subaru sounds really attractive at the moment. It sounds like there is a pretty big enthusiast community, which is a HUGE bonus, and if they are in fact that reliable, that only helps the case further.

To place it simply for what I want:

- Reliable
- Fun to drive
- Good on gas
- Decent amount of room for four adults and their crap (obviously we can make exceptions for the Miata...)
- Good in the snow is a HUGE bonus

 

[JCE]

Thing about the '04-ups that really irked me was that they just used a standard Sentra nose. The way you identified it was if it was in an outrageous color.

+1 You are quite correct.

That's an awful choice. I have two friends with 2003 and 2004 Sentra SE-Rs and both cars have already died and been brought back to life. When a car dies at 35,000 miles it's pitiful. Problems abound with these cars.

I blame the drivers, who not only didn't know how to take care of a car but probably drove it like they stole it every second of their lives. Do that to any car and you're likely to have something happen to it.

Wow, you guys are pretty hard on the Spec V. I've owned one for almost 4 years now. It's been great. More torque then almost every car in it's class and even some above it's class. Yeah, it's a challenge to drive, but that makes it fun.

It's a good car for someone wanting speed and to keep in a budget at the same time.

I'm sorry that your friend's cars have had a hard time. But I've autocrossed this car and been competitive. In fact, an instructor got in my car and got a good enough time to win our division. Scary stuff.

I'm not saying the spec V is the end all be all, but as far as FF sport coupes/sedans go, it's certainly top tier. What other car would be better in that price range and drivetrain?

+1 on everything you just said.

To place it simply for what I want:

- Reliable - WS6
- Fun to drive - WS6
- Good on gas - WS6 w/T56
- Decent amount of room for four adults and their crap - WS6
- Good in the snow is a HUGE bonus - DAMNIT lost it on the last option

But, in all honesty minus the snow thing why not get a GTO? You know you want to.

 

[Keef]

Wow, you guys are pretty hard on the Spec V. I've owned one for almost 4 years now. It's been great. More torque then almost every car in it's class and even some above it's class. Yeah, it's a challenge to drive, but that makes it fun.

It's a good car for someone wanting speed and to keep in a budget at the same time.

I'm sorry that your friend's cars have had a hard time. But I've autocrossed this car and been competitive. In fact, an instructor got in my car and got a good enough time to win our division. Scary stuff.

I'm not saying the spec V is the end all be all, but as far as FF sport coupes/sedans go, it's certainly top tier. What other car would be better in that price range and drivetrain?

I agree that it's an excellent performance car. Both of my friends' cars are tuned mostly for handling, and the cars are fantastic at that. Both of them had similar engine management problems and both of their first catalysts blew out (the one on the exhaust manifold), clogging the exhaust at the second cat and bumming the engine. They spoke as if the problems were widespread. But all is well with both now.

To place it simply for what I want:

- Reliable - WS6, until it falls apart at 120,000 miles
- Fun to drive - WS6, as long as you have the Hulk's right arm and like burnouts and slanging 3400 pounds back and forth
- Good on gas - WS6 w/ T56
- Decent amount of room for two adults and their crap (obviously we can make exceptions for the Miata...) - WS6
- Good in the snow is a HUGE bonus - Likewise

Fixed.

I still haven't been able to differentiate "work" from "driving a GTO".

 

[JCE]

To place it simply for what I want:

- Reliable - WS6, until it falls apart at 140,000 miles
- Fun to drive - WS6, as long as you have the Hulk's right arm and like burnouts and slanging 3400 pounds back and forth
- Good on gas - WS6 w/ T56
- Decent amount of room for two adults and their crap (obviously we can make exceptions for the Miata...) - WS6
- Good in the snow is a HUGE bonus - Likewise

Fixed.

You have no idea what you are talking about. F-body cars last forEVER. I know because I own one that just crossed TWO HUNDRED FOURTY ONE THOUSAND MILES on the ORIGINAL ENGINE. My interior lasted ONE HUNDRED SEVENTY FIVE THOUSAND MILES before I choose to take it out. The T56 6spd doesn't take "Hulk" arms to shift it, that's the MUSTANG if you must know. And unless you are taller than 5'11" and larger than 240lbs you CAN fit into the back seats if the front seat passenger moves it up 1~2 spots. I OBVIOUSLY ruled out the snow portion. I'm so sick of this rubbish. I've had a bad day and you're my target. Its easy to find more F-body cars with high miles on the original motor than you can provide to the contrary.

And, whats even more awsome is I was even using a bit of sarcasm that most people would pick up on...and for those who didn't I put the wink smile afterwards. And what's even more awsome than that is this:

The general listings:

- Subaru Forester
- Mazda Miata
- Mazda Protege
- Ford Focus
- Volkswagen Golf GTI VR6 MKIV
- Chevrolet Cobalt Coupe
- Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

Now, back on topic. You're probably better off getting a regular non-Impreza Subie as the insurance will be cheap enough--and it does everything well (almost perfect infact) and will last forever. Even longer than most Camaros! *cough*most*cough*