Zeta News 2.0: New VF Commodore and Chevrolet SS

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You're STILL talking about this? Fine, let me tell you AGAIN, because you didn't get it the first several times. 30,000 a year is not a big number in the USA, if you weren't aware. Ford sells 60,000 F150s a month by comparison. And the G8 released in 2008. How many times do I have to remind you of the 2007-2010 recession? Nobody was buying cars. Sales for cars tanked all across the board. Especially for Chrysler and GM. To the point they had to be bailed out by the government. Remember? It had nothing to do with the car being good or bad, and everything to do with people losing their homes and their life's earnings in the course of 4 months.

The G8 is a Commodore, you know. Built in Australia. Along with the Caprice PPV, the SS, the Chevrolet Lumina, the Chevrolet Omega, Vauxhall VXR8, and the Chinese Buick Park Avenue. Every single one built on the Commodore production line in Port Elizabeth, Australia. And then you have to include the Commodores sold in New Zealand, built in PE. I can guarantee all of those, along with the Statesmans and Caprices, and all the VE and VF HSVs will send that production number north of the 210k required for your little statistic.
And since the majority of those numbers are the plain Jane Commodores, and the majority of those Commodores are in Australia, my point remains valid.

Are you through? It really doesn't matter, because I'm sick of arguing with a brick wall. Because all it does is make me look stupid. So I'm not responding to you anymore.
Dude, cool it.
 
You're STILL talking about this? Fine, let me tell you AGAIN, because you didn't get it the first several times. 30,000 a year is not a big number in the USA, if you weren't aware. Ford sells 60,000 F150s a month by comparison. And the G8 released in 2008. How many times do I have to remind you of the 2007-2010 recession?

That's quite a strange argument, since up until now you were repeatedly stating that the reason it didn't sell better was that there weren't any more to sell. LIMITED. PRODUCTION, I believe was the term you used. You literally just told someone completely unrelated to the conversation that "G8 was limited production so they only had so many they could sell", when if you had actually bothered to see if you knew what you were talking about before claiming that you would have known that the amount they sold was half as much as the amount they planned on selling (and thus had to sell).



Not that stopped you with the other things you've claimed.


The G8 is a Commodore, you know. Built in Australia. Along with the Caprice PPV, the SS, the Chevrolet Lumina, the Chevrolet Omega, Vauxhall VXR8, and the Chinese Buick Park Avenue. Every single one built on the Commodore production line in Port Elizabeth, Australia.

I'm sorry, what was it you said?

But those other cars never progressed beyond the drawing board, if they even got that far. For all intents and purposes, it was a Commodre-specific platform. The vast majority of Zeta cars are Commodores, and the vast majority of Commodores are in Australia. That means by definition it is a primarily Australian platform.

for your little statistic.

I don't believe I was the one who claimed that a car that sold 407,000 (or we can be nice and ignore all the other information from earlier and say 448.000) over ten years represented a vast majority of a car platform over a car on the same platform that sold 576,000 in 6; so not my statistic I'm afraid.


And since the majority of those numbers are the plain Jane Commodores, and the majority of those Commodores are in Australia, my point remains valid.

I see in addition to basic fact checking (for Christ's sake the sales figures were on both car's Wikipedia pages, with sources for each year) you also have failures with basic math.






So, as someone who attempted to chew me out for my reading comprehension earlier, do you really not have control over the words that you type, or do you just throw whatever crap that you think might stick and hope people won't call you on it?

Both things?
 
GM could very easily move the Commodore to the Alpha platform along with the new Camaro and ATS.

At this point in time, it's a difficult call on what GM would do here. Some people have pointed to using the E2XX (Epsilon III) chassis to replace the Commodore, Insignia, Regal, and so on with a greater tilt toward fuel economy and practicality for most markets. Adapting the Alpha chassis makes sense, but there would be a little too much overlap in North America to make it a clear choice compared to the Impala/LaCrosse and CTS. The most-likely choice still seems, at least to me, would be adapting the Omega chassis from the Cadillac CT6 for both a Buick luxury sedan in China and a Commodore/Statesman that could be sold in small numbers in the US and Australia. We know it is a great chassis based on the Cadillac, I think the big question would be how adaptable it is in terms of size to make a slightly smaller car for Holden.

Wouldn't be able to keep them in stock.

That's betting an awful lot against market forces not just in Australia, but across the globe. The sedan is no longer a safe bet, regardless of the drivetrain. If GM can make a Commodore that gets more than 13 km/L, maybe it would fair a bit better in the market. There's an awful lot that depends on not just Australia, but also China, and the US, to get it done.
 
Here we go:
http://www.australiastoughestcars.c...vs-will-wave-goodbye-with-638-hp-of-goodness/
Before production of its RWD sedans ends, HSV will roll out a final, special edition model.
After lots of back and forth and speculation, it seems the last of the great V8 sedans from Australian-based Holden will be getting the powerplant it deserves. We’re pretty sure that they won’t be fitted in stock form either, the HSV techs will probably do a fair amount of fiddling to raise the power even higher. As it stands, GM will be supplying the supercharged LS9 V8 rated at 638 hp and 604 lb-ft, the same seen in the previous Corvette ZR1, according to Motoring.

See Also: HSV GTS 25th anniversary limited edition unleashed

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To run out the Commodore model, there will be at least two interesting HSV versions created. One will be an easy one to get hold of with a 6.2-liter, supercharged V8 rated at 576 hp and 538 lb-ft on tap. This will be dubbed the GTS-R, harking back to a previously successful limited edition with the same name from 1996. The big daddy will be the GTS-R W1, and that Vette engine will certainly give it the performance to make it a legendary car. And with just 250 models planned, it’ll be a collector’s piece in no time. Guestimates are that pricing will be over $130,000, making it the most expensive HSV ever made as well as the most powerful and fastest.
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The HSV GTS-R W1 will see fitment of a Tremec TR-6060 gear box, which is a six-speed manual; no option of an auto will be given. The suspension will be tuned too, HSV looks to have enlisted the services of Supashock, who it knows via sister company, the Holden Racing Team who have been using Supashock dampers on the Commodore VF supercars. Bigger and better AP Racing will be added. If the new one looks anything like the current HSV (pictured here) then it will be menacingly awesome. We can expect both the GTS-R and GTS-R W1 to be out towards the middle of 2017, but we’ll let you know if things change with this story as we’ve seen on a few occasions.
 
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/1AAB3CD8C5443777CA258056002B793F

Such a tease.
GENERAL Motors is injecting $8.7 million into Holden’s vehicle emissions test labs at its 60-year-old Lang Lang proving ground in Victoria in a reversal of fortune for GM’s embattled Australian vehicle development unit.

While many other Holden engineers such as body development specialists are still getting their marching orders as GM scales down its Australian engineering and manufacturing operations, the powertrain calibration unit – now part of GM Global Propulsion Systems (GPS) – is advertising for 11 more engineers to take its staff tally up to 106, which is about the same as it was at its peak when Holden was developing the all-Australian VE Commodore and related American Chevrolet Camaro about a decade ago.

Most of the money is being spent on new hi-tech emissions test cells capable of testing to the highest European emissions standards as part of Holden’s powertrain calibration engineering service to GM affiliates such as Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC, Opel and Buick.

The proving ground roads and test facilities are currently bristling with Cadillac luxury cars and Chevrolet and GMC pick-ups, all undergoing optimisation work on next-generation petrol powertrains.

These include Cadillac’s potent XTS-V Sport and CTS-V Sport, as well as the American versions of the Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon.

All up, the current test fleet totals 104 vehicles, with some being put through their paces on test roads, while others are attached to exhaust assessment equipment in dynamometer test cells that do up to 7000 tests a year.

GPS Holden Calibration Group manager David Eliott said his Australian engineers had been responsible for powertrain optimisation in GM models that would account for about five per cent of GM’s 11 million global sales this year.

He listed 18 models currently on sale around the world that had passed though Lang Lang in the development stages.

Mr Eliott said the Australian GPS unit was being offered more work than it could handle.

“We are struggling to get engineers,” he said. “Everyone is hiring.”

In a nutshell, powertrain calibration engineers optimise vehicle settings for a range of vehicle functions such as power delivery, emissions and fuel economy, often having to juggle software settings in up to 34 control modules (computers) across the vehicle, not to mention up to 54 different petrol brews from around the world.

While the Holden team can test diesel, LPG and ethanol engines, it specialises in petrol units, especially GM’s 1.4-litre turbo “family four” that is common in small Opels, Chevrolets, Buicks and Holdens.

As GoAuto has already reported, the massive 4.7 kilometre high-speed banked test track at Lang Lang will also be resealed after GM’s change of heart on the future of the 877 hectare facility that it now sees as a necessary, albeit small, cog in its vehicle development machine.

The track is badly deteriorated, and despite patching, it is well below its best.

Three years ago, GM announced that it would close the proving ground as it wound up its ground-up vehicle development capability in Australia, along with its manufacturing operations in late-2017.

However, a few months later, it had a change of heart and announced it would maintain part of its engineering operation at Lang Lang, although 50 staff there would be made redundant.

Some chassis engineers working on local chassis tuning for imported products are also still engaged, along with a smaller group of engineers in support of Holden’s design studio, GM Design Australia, next to Holden’s Port Melbourne head office.

All up, Holden expects to end up with a team of more than 300 designers and engineers, which is better than originally expected, but well down on the halcyon days of Holden vehicle development when the engineering squad alone boasted about 900 people.

It is also well short of the 1500 employed across town at Ford’s Asia Pacific Vehicle Development centres.



Cadillac_emissions_test_car.jpg

As a side:
Man, I've saying Cadillac should have been sold as is or rebadged HSVs. They would smash 300C/SRT & Jeep SRT sales.
 
Not that I could afford one, but I'd love to have Cadillac in Australia after the Commodore's gone, the ATS-V is one of my dream cars.
 
Looks LHD from the front photo. Can't read the rear script.
When the SS was being road tested in Melbourne, it displayed "LEFT HAND DRIVE" on the top of the rear windscreen.
 
Damn shame. That ATS-V could be a Monaro. It uses the same wheels as an SSV. Imagine that as a Red Bull Racing Australia Special Edition.
 
https://www.motormag.com.au/news/1611/hsv-builds-final-grange
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After 20 years of production, HSV has built its final long-wheelbase Grange model.

The final car is number 50 in its limited-edition run of 'Grange SV' models, which wear gloss black 20-inch 'Rapier' rims, shadow chrome exhaust tips and various exterior trims pieces all finished in black.

Painted in Nitrate (silver), the car wears a special build plate stating that it's the last of its kind, finished on Friday, October 28, 2016.

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An HSV spokesman confirmed that the car has been pre-sold to a customer through Metro HSV in Adelaide, telling MOTOR: "Hopefully i'll be a great drive and a wise investment."

The Grange first appeared in October 1996 as part of the VS Series II range, available with HSV's 185kW 5.0-litre V8 or 215kW 5.7-litre stroker and a four-speed automatic as the only transmission option.

It has been a fixture of HSV's line-up ever since, all the way through to the current Gen-F2, which is powered by the 340kW/570Nm version of GM's LS3 V8, mated to a six-speed automatic.

hsv-grange-sv.jpg
While Ford's Fairlane ceased production in December 2007, Holden has remained committed to the long-wheelbase cause, with HSV's sports limo attracting a small but loyal band of buyers.

Holden will reveal its own sports-luxury farewell model, the Director, early in 2017, while HSV is expected to farewell the Commodore with the monstrous 476kW GTS-R W1.

The Walkinshaw Group recently announced it will move facilities, signing a 15-year lease on a larger premises in Clayton South, Victoria, consolidating its many interests under the one roof.
 
HOLDEN might have to find a fresh description for its new-generation liftback Commodore that, in early briefings to journalists, has been dubbed Sportback.

A search of Australian trademarks by GoAuto has confirmed that Sportback is a registered trademark of Audi AG, which uses it to describe hatchbacks such as the five-door A1, A3, A5 and A7.

The trademark was registered in Australia in 2004, and is current until 2023. It is still in active use by Audi Australia in public relations and marketing materials.

Holden product communications manager Mark Flintoft said the use by Holden of Sportback was a description of the five-door Commodore, not a model designation, in similar fashion to sedan or wagon.

He said official names for Commodore variants had yet to be announced.

The new imported model’s release is more than a year away, in February 2018.

Unlike the current locally made Commodore that comes in sedan and wagon formats, the Opel-built Commodore will come in two five-door variants, a liftback hatch and wagon.

In the United Kingdom, the Vauxhall Insignia liftback’s name has been confirmed as Grand Sport, while the wagon version has been named Sport Tourer.

Holden will have no trademark concerns if it chooses to continue with the Sportwagon name for its Commodore wagon, as this has been a registered trademark of General Motors in Australia since 2008 when it was applied to the VE Commodore station wagon.

Rival Ford has run into trademark issues with its Territory SUV replacement, the Edge. The Edge trademark is held by Toyota which has applied it to variants of its RAV4.

As GoAuto reported in August, Ford has asked Toyota for permission to use the Edge name for the American-built large SUV that will be launched in Australia in 2018, replacing the locally made Territory that went out of production with the Falcon in October.

Ford and Toyota spokespersons both told GoAuto last week that they had no news on the SUV naming issue.
 
The UK weekly mags (Autocar and AutoExpress) seem to have positive things to say from a ride in the test mule. I'll probably buy one today to read at work.
 
How does the Mondeo fair against the Insignia in the UK?

Official numbers wise, I don't know, but from the number I see on the road, not favourably. By that flawed metric, the Insignia has been something of a sales success for a dwindling market.

It's not a great drive, but it holds on gamely. My dad's turbo diesel wagon is loud as heck, and it's dead when off boost. The biggest gripe I have is a weird feeling when the steering is self centering, like a remote guide rather than a natural motion. Extortionate tax on the VXR of £500 a year ruled one out for me as my next car.
 
How does the Mondeo fair against the Insignia in the UK?

Not entirely apples to apples anymore, I'd say. Ford just refreshed the Mondeo/Fusion for 2017, adding some additional refinements inside and out, and also started offering the new Sport trim (at least in the US) with 325 BHP and AWD. The Insignia/Regal is getting old, and despite a visual upgrade a year or so ago, it only is able to hold on with clever packaging and odd performance options. Knowing that the next Insignia/Regal/Commodore will share a platform with the new Chevrolet Malibu, things bode well when you keep in mind that the car is both lighter and stiffer than the chassis that is under the current Insignia/Regal, and should be able to take a wide variety of powertrains to meet people's needs. Our Malibu, unfortunately, isn't available with AWD, which limits how directly it can be compared to the Fusion, saving space for whatever AWD version Buick has in the next year or so. On top of that, they're planning on offering a wagon and a quasi-crossover version (think Subaru Outback), which gives it a bit more of a leg-up on the Fusion long-term.
 
When you take into consideration the history of the Director nameplate & the outcome of the last time it was used, I'm pretty sure I won't be the only one unhappy about it should Holden use it.
Growing up, Peter Brock was God to me & although the Polarizer hocus pocus BS made me uncomfortable, I stood by him in the transitions to BMW, Ford & back to Holden. Did this :rolleyes: :odd: when he put his name on Russian Ladas though.
Ultimately, IMO it's an issue better not relived, remembered or otherwise.
 
No being silly, but Holden could have added special plaques or collab with HSV. Like:

100 SS-Vs with HRT badging/graphics/colour schemes.

100 wagons signed by Courtney & Tander. Red/black & white bodies with random white, red or black wheels.

50 light weight sedans(Holden & HSV) Carbon bonnet, boot & rear bumper, Recaro seats, Supercar replica wheels.
Sandown plaque or Pirtek enduro plaque w/Tander & Luff signatures.

Even a special Anzac edition, with a percentage going to ANZAC charities.

A few of these floating around, seem like modern collectors to me.
 
What I'm wondering is, there's a replacement Commodore already, but what will happen to the ute?

An Insignia based franken-ute would be pretty cool.
 
VXR
What I'm wondering is, there's a replacement Commodore already, but what will happen to the ute?

An Insignia based franken-ute would be pretty cool.
That would be brilliant, but I'm sure the current Commodore ute will be the last of its kind. People favour bigger duel-cab utes like the Hilux instead these days. :(
 
VXR
What I'm wondering is, there's a replacement Commodore already, but what will happen to the ute?

An Insignia based franken-ute would be pretty cool.
Yeah, sadly, a V6 & V8 ute can't compare to a turbo diesel that can tow the boat/caravan/tools/family/go off road and go the distance on fuel.

The Commodore ute, is pretty much a Corvette that can tow the jet ski. The Maloo does it much faster. :)
 
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