2014 United Sports Car Championship

[cnd01]

Audi will make a massive stink if they are getting routinely beat by Privateers. They'll either find a way to get their car faster anyways, and threaten to leave if they get bop-d

Let them leave. I'd rather have 15 privateer teams and no Audi than Audi being way better, and this series turn into ALMS 2.0.

 

[freshseth83]

Yep, (supposedly Duncan Dayton, the same guy who ironically couldn't even keep his own team going in P1.) See the joke?

You need a history lesson. Dayton isn't to be faulted for Honda's withdraw of support. Why would Dayton be behind the rumor if he doesn't run LMP1? Whoever stated that is shooting in the dark.

The fact that your points have no concreate proof to them, especially the part about Porsche planning to race in the USCR when there is no official word anywhere (from Porsche or any credible soure for that matter)that they even said or stated this, just you (I'm seeing a pattern here). Also, I love how you've managed to jump around the question and then call it "baseless" when a lot of your Conspiracy theories seem to Lack solid proof. I'm willing to bet if it wasn't for Grand-Am being owned by NASCAR, you wouldn't even be coming with this hilarious theory (like many Sportscar elitists have).

I didn't say USCR, I said Porsche wanted to do the ALMS. They changed that idea when ALMS was bought out by Grand Am. You talk about conspiracy theories yet throw around an idea some rumor was started by a guy not involved with an LMP1 car. I don't care if NASCAR owns Grand Am. I actually watch NASCAR. So not only are you wrong about my 'tastes', your being hypocritical saying I'm using theories but you bring up rumors and names that are just as baseless as what you accuse me of.

BTW, still waiting for you to list those interested teams. And as for me "refuting" what you said, let me show you what seemingly you never can show me: Proof. I'll show you proof at how P1 has gotten laughably worse:


2009 P1 class:

De Ferran Motorsport
Patron Highcroft Racing
Intersport Racing
Autocon Motorsport*
Corsa Motorsports*


2010 LMP Class (Combined P1 & P2)

Patron Highcroft Racing (P2)
Muscle Milk Team Cytosport (P2)
Drayson Racing*(P1)
Dyson Racing Team(P2)
Intersport Racing*(P1)
Autocon Motorsports*(P1)

2011 P1 Class:

Dyson Racing Team
Muscle Milk Aston Martin Racing
Autocon*
Oryx*

2012 P1 Class:

Muscle Milk Pickett Racing
Dyson Racing Team

*= Hasn't run full season


There you go, all actual proof pulled straight from the actual team standings, not fiction made up in my mind. Now its your turn to show me proof

Proof of what? You want proof of a rumor? One that you're bringing up? Maybe Dayton wants it, that's what you seem to believe. You ask for proof of a rumor you harp on about. Muscle Milk, Rebellion, Dyson and probably Porsche were interested in LMP1. With new regulations in 2014 there is that desire to run your new car in a series that you have had huge success in. I don't think you get what I'm saying at all. People have the idea that the new USCR dropped LMP1 because there was "little interest". If that's the case why did they keep LMP2 when there's even LESS interest? This isn't up for debate. They dropped LMP1 because it'd be nearly impossible to keep the DP class at the front of the field with those cars involved. They're out for their own interests, and keeping the 'premier class' they have had success with (if you can call it that). DP won't be shown up by LMP2 because it's a lot closer and cheaper to make the DP's equal in speed.

Keyword: Qualified. Where did they finish? Behind them. Nowhere did I state they left WEC, only that they are tired of winning a 'Best of the rest" class within a class and not overall wins, Something the ALMS gives them the opportunity to do.

Again, here's Proof:




link


Now argue with me how that isn't them being sick of playing second fiddle to the factory teams. Yes they are still racing in WEC, but clearly its not important to the point where they want nothing to do with the ALMS.

I think you got my words twisted up. They're not going to race ALMS next year because it won't exist. They're staying with LMP1 as they've said before. So if that's the case where are they going to race? That would be the WEC. They've ran 2 cars at Silverstone, 2 cars will be at Spa, 2 cars will be at LeMans. They want to represent a manufacturer, by expressing their frustration of not being equal to the manufacturers you think they'll stop? What's the point of bringing up they're tired of playing "second fiddle"? If it's that big of a deal to them they wouldn't race there. But yet they're committed to LMP1. In fact, Speed.com just had a story where they said they may make their own LMP1 in the next couple of years 👍. Henry Pescarolo expressed his dissatisfaction with the equality of LMP1 factory cars and privateers, but he kept on in the same class. I don't get your point of bringing up the same talk from all private teams.

Seth can you ever go anywhere without starting an argument of some kind?

I don't know who you are, or when weve 'argued'. But I'll say what I want. And if I don't agree with you, oh well.

The main problem I have with Seth is most of time, he just posts stuff and instead of trying to find anything to back it up (like I just did), just expects everyone to believe it. The Super GT thread, he wanted us to believe something based on some shoddy, questionable website (nothing reputable or legit) instead of again, waiting on actual proof (in that case, any official statement from Honda).

And it turned out to be right. You were denying the links I gave you where Honda said it from the start they were going to run the NSX. You thought it couldn't be MR because of the DTM chassis. I showed otherwise. I don't care what you believe, if you want proof look for it yourself. I gave proof before, links in that thread. It was in Japanese and you didn't believe me or the Japanese people that translated it. That wasn't enough for you. That's why I don't bother.

 

[Mac K]

http://[domain blocked due to malware]/instances/400x/28889014.jpg

 

[freshseth83]

http://[domain blocked due to malware]/instances/400x/34823787.jpg

 

[polarbear345]

Seth has a sense of humor?????

This was a nice place for the picture, made me laugh!

 

[cnd01]

Seth has a sense of humor?????

This was a nice place for the picture, made me laugh!

I know he beat me to it.

 

[RACECAR]

Ah Seth, you make yourself look silly again.

You need a history lesson. Dayton isn't to be faulted for Honda's withdraw of support. Why would Dayton be behind the rumor if he doesn't run LMP1? Whoever stated that is shooting in the dark.

So he can run an unsupported Lola for two seasons (and support the Delta Wing Program), but can't run an unsupported Honda? Last I checked, the team isn't all THAT poor so while I understand him not able to go to Le Mans, I still can't fathom how he couldn't:

A. Run the car for a few races.
B. Perhaps pull back out the ARX-02A that won last season (it wasn't exactly old)

As for the rumor, I didn't start it. That's the word going around hence why I said "Supposedly".

I didn't say USCR, I said Porsche wanted to do the ALMS. They changed that idea when ALMS was bought out by Grand Am. You talk about conspiracy theories yet throw around an idea some rumor was started by a guy not involved with an LMP1 car. I don't care if NASCAR owns Grand Am. I actually watch NASCAR.

Oh Really? That's a surprise. Usually this repeated point of "DPs being the top car" is bought up by the elitest who just have to find some desperate excuse to Blame NASCAR so fair enough, I take back that assumption.

So not only are you wrong about my 'tastes', your being hypocritical saying I'm using theories but you bring up rumors and names that are just as baseless as what you accuse me of.

1. I didn't say a thing about your tastes, so you can stop putting words in my mouth.

2. I didn't make that rumor, someone else did therefore not my fabrication (and therefore your accusation of me being hypocritical like most of your arguing falls flat) You bringing up the idea that Porsche were going to compete in the ALMS with the LMP1 despite there being again no word about it happening, sounds made up. So if you're going to call me Hypocritical, make sure you actually have proof where I Made up stuff.

Proof of what? You want proof of a rumor? One that you're bringing up? Maybe Dayton wants it, that's what you seem to believe. You ask for proof of a rumor you harp on about. Muscle Milk, Rebellion, Dyson and probably Porsche were interested in LMP1. With new regulations in 2014 there is that desire to run your new car in a series that you have had huge success in. I don't think you get what I'm saying at all. People have the idea that the new USCR dropped LMP1 because there was "little interest". If that's the case why did they keep LMP2 when there's even LESS interest? This isn't up for debate. They dropped LMP1 because it'd be nearly impossible to keep the DP class at the front of the field with those cars involved. They're out for their own interests, and keeping the 'premier class' they have had success with (if you can call it that). DP won't be shown up by LMP2 because it's a lot closer and cheaper to make the DP's equal in speed.

Looks like you didn't read the part where I said "Proof that LMP1 class has gotten worse". That's my proof, which I once again got from a reputable source that no one will ever question (Something you don't do a lot when it comes to this debate as of late). You mentioned P1 teams being interested in ALMS and repeatidly having a problem with P1 being cut, I disagreed and showed you proof which lead to my disagreeing.

Now to Respond to the bolded bits:

1. You can stop with the hilarious accusation of me and this rumor. I brought up this rumor (which has been known since March by the way, not just made up by me) as a joke. Clearly, you didn't get the joke (nor the hint to chill the hell out).

2. Maybe because the P2 class is supposed to be the Cost-capped solution unlike P1? Unlike P1, the new P2 rules are still fairly new to the ALMS so just because we initially didn't see any other P2 teams didn't mean it was in danger since unlike P1, which as I showed has been in trouble for the last four years.

I think you got my words twisted up. They're not going to race ALMS next year because it won't exist. They're staying with LMP1 as they've said before. So if that's the case where are they going to race? That would be the WEC. They've ran 2 cars at Silverstone, 2 cars will be at Spa, 2 cars will be at LeMans. They want to represent a manufacturer, by expressing their frustration of not being equal to the manufacturers you think they'll stop? What's the point of bringing up they're tired of playing "second fiddle"? If it's that big of a deal to them they wouldn't race there. But yet they're committed to LMP1. In fact, Speed.com just had a story where they said they may make their own LMP1 in the next couple of years 👍. Henry Pescarolo expressed his dissatisfaction with the equality of LMP1 factory cars and privateers, but he kept on in the same class. I don't get your point of bringing up the same talk from all private teams.

I didn't bring up 2014 and beyond, I brought what they are doing this year, this season. I showed you where they themselves wanted actual overall wins via the comment about "Increased Visability (which again is what the ALMS allows them to do this year) hence why I said "They're tired of playing second fiddle" (that's the impression that statement gives me anyway). What else does "Increased Visibility" mean? (aside from the usual Sponsor PR sell job)

Also, I find Henri Pescarolo Hard to take seriously, especially since he bitches and moans about the P1 class being equal and when he finally has one of those diesels, he can't even get it to run anywhere near the pace of the factory cars (yet another French priveteer Oreca can do better a year later, even so much as being fast enough to chase down the Audis). Yes he does continue to compete in the same class he continually moans about, which kinda makes all his complaining sorta moot really. Its like (prepare for an odd analogy) complaining that you have the worst girlfriend ever because of all these things she does and wishing you weren't with her anymore: If you feel this way and nothing is changing, Why the hell are you still with her?

And it turned out to be right. You were denying the links I gave you where Honda said it from the start they were going to run the NSX. You thought it couldn't be MR because of the DTM chassis. I showed otherwise. I don't care what you believe, if you want proof look for it yourself. I gave proof before, links in that thread. It was in Japanese and you didn't believe me or the Japanese people that translated it. That wasn't enough for you. That's why I don't bother.

I said all that? I simply wanted to officially hear From Honda and Super GT instead of a questionable source. Nowhere did I say how wrong you were about it all because of the DTM chassis and what not.

You love to shove BS in my mouth, don't you? Oh wow you were right (according to what you're telling me), you want a trophy?

Seriously, just this response alone makes you sound like that annoying kid on the playground that has to be right all the time and when you are, you have to rub it the hell in people's faces. Its why I stopped posting in the Super GT Thread so much.

 

[polarbear345]

Seth called it!

 

[Furinkazen]

LMP2 in all markets is more popular than LMP1. Fact.

 

[cnd01]

LMP2 in all markets is more popular than LMP1. Fact.

This

 

[Snaeper]

LMP2 in all markets is more popular than LMP1. Fact.

This.

The fact that ELMS and the Asian Le Mans Series are not running them generally shows that most markets are not capable of fielding LMP1, or that the ACO doesn't want P1 to be run in those markets. They might be taking the WEC very seriously, and want to make P1 an exclusive World Racing Spec only. That the ALMS/USCR also dropped it really shouldn't be that surprising.

 

[cnd01]

This.

The fact that ELMS and the Asian Le Mans Series are not running them generally shows that most markets are not capable of fielding LMP1, or that the ACO doesn't want P1 to be run in those markets. They might be taking the WEC very seriously, and want to make P1 an exclusive World Racing Spec only. That the ALMS/USCR also dropped it really shouldn't be that surprising.

It's not surprising when it costs millions of dollars just to finish last. Make p1 sorta like the f1 of sports car racing. Thats the only way to keep it going imo. Not enough eggs to spread out to different markets. LMP2 would be really popular in the US if DP didn't exist. That's the only thing hampering LMP2 competition.

 

[freshseth83]

Ah Seth, you make yourself look silly again.

Nah. You just like laughing.

So he can run an unsupported Lola for two seasons (and support the Delta Wing Program), but can't run an unsupported Honda? Last I checked, the team isn't all THAT poor so while I understand him not able to go to Le Mans, I still can't fathom how he couldn't:

A. Run the car for a few races.
B. Perhaps pull back out the ARX-02A that won last season (it wasn't exactly old)

Wait, what? Lola's are a good deal cheaper than an HPD first of all. And like I said, you need a history lesson. Honda cancelled the car- http://www.mulsannescorner.com/AcuraARX-02.html

Years later we now understand that nearly on the car's debut, in January of 2009, Honda North America president Tetsuo Iwamura abruptly canceled the ARX-02a program. With the cancellation of the project all development ceased (chassis and engine). Most importantly, the -02a never benefited from bespoke compound and construction front tires that were predicted to have been worth 2.5 second at Sebring, had they been available (The ultimate irony is that with Peugeot and Audi's adaptation of the wide fronts concept just a few seasons later Michelin did end up manufacturing proper wide front compounds.). The race program did see the year out though Highcroft were not keen on the early departure decision and attempted to negotiate running the car through 2010 (even though they already had a two year contract to do just that) and ended up returning the car weeks after the final race as a sign of their discontent.

That wasn't hard was it?

As for the rumor, I didn't start it. That's the word going around hence why I said "Supposedly".

I know you didn't start it. That isn't the point. This topic isn't even worth bringing up. A rumor is what it is, correct? So don't fault me for saying the rumor is Porsche had intent to run LMP1 in ALMS for 2014.

Oh Really? That's a surprise. Usually this repeated point of "DPs being the top car" is bought up by the elitest who just have to find some desperate excuse to Blame NASCAR so fair enough, I take back that assumption.

You say this then you say...

1. I didn't say a thing about your tastes, so you can stop putting words in my mouth.

You thought I was a 'sportscar elitist' and NASCAR is at fault. That's odd that you now say I'm putting words in your mouth. Especially when you said this

I'm willing to bet if it wasn't for Grand-Am being owned by NASCAR, you wouldn't even be coming with this hilarious theory (like many Sportscar elitists have).

2. I didn't make that rumor, someone else did therefore not my fabrication (and therefore your accusation of me being hypocritical like most of your arguing falls flat) You bringing up the idea that Porsche were going to compete in the ALMS with the LMP1 despite there being again no word about it happening, sounds made up. So if you're going to call me Hypocritical, make sure you actually have proof where I Made up stuff.

There's where you're getting things twisted. You're not even holding a discussion, you're just jumping the gun trying to 'prove' me wrong. I just said I know that rumor and it wasn't you. The hypocritical part is you try to say I'm wrong for speaking of a rumor but you speak of one yourself! That's the very definition of hypocrite!

Looks like you didn't read the part where I said "Proof that LMP1 class has gotten worse". That's my proof, which I once again got from a reputable source that no one will ever question (Something you don't do a lot when it comes to this debate as of late).

Wow, you have a knack for observation of the obvious! The size of the P1 grid isn't the question

You mentioned P1 teams being interested in ALMS and repeatidly having a problem with P1 being cut, I disagreed and showed you proof which lead to my disagreeing.

And? That wasn't the point! Obviously you failed to see it. The point is there was 3 teams in P1 this season, and possibly 4 with the addition of Porsche next year. There were 0 teams in P2 beginning this year until ESM decided to drop out GTE because they knew they couldn't compete! Now there is 2 teams in P2. Still less than the 3 in P1.

Now to Respond to the bolded bits:

1. You can stop with the hilarious accusation of me and this rumor. I brought up this rumor (which has been known since March by the way, not just made up by me) as a joke. Clearly, you didn't get the joke (nor the hint to chill the hell out).

this is the 3rd time you've brought this up. If you don't want to be associated with it why bring it up in the first place?

2. Maybe because the P2 class is supposed to be the Cost-capped solution unlike P1? Unlike P1, the new P2 rules are still fairly new to the ALMS so just because we initially didn't see any other P2 teams didn't mean it was in danger since unlike P1, which as I showed has been in trouble for the last four years.

hah! You've got to be kidding me. The P2 rules have been stable for as long as P1! You really do need a history lesson. You keep harping on about P1 being in trouble but fail to grasp that P2 had less entries, NO takers until the last minute.

I didn't bring up 2014 and beyond, I brought what they are doing this year, this season. I showed you where they themselves wanted actual overall wins via the comment about "Increased Visability (which again is what the ALMS allows them to do this year) hence why I said "They're tired of playing second fiddle" (that's the impression that statement gives me anyway). What else does "Increased Visibility" mean? (aside from the usual Sponsor PR sell job)

It makes no difference. They intend to stay in P1- that dying class you speak about.

Also, I find Henri Pescarolo Hard to take seriously, especially since he bitches and moans about the P1 class being equal and when he finally has one of those diesels, he can't even get it to run anywhere near the pace of the factory cars (yet another French priveteer Oreca can do better a year later, even so much as being fast enough to chase down the Audis). Yes he does continue to compete in the same class he continually moans about, which kinda makes all his complaining sorta moot really. Its like (prepare for an odd analogy) complaining that you have the worst girlfriend ever because of all these things she does and wishing you weren't with her anymore: If you feel this way and nothing is changing, Why the hell are you still with her?

You don't take a founder of a privateer team serious? So what is Grand Am, not serious? That's a lot of privateer teams. It's sad you don't take serious a guy who won LeMans 3 times! As for his diesel he wasn't as fast in, what do you expect? He's not the factory team. He only had a car on borrow. He didn't have nearly the experience that Peugeot had, nor the drivers. Oreca didn't challenge until all the factory 908's had been retired from LeMans. Gives you an insight that they were being held back. They won Sebring in 2011 because Pegueot's new 908 had never ran a race and encountered issues. Even the HPD beat them!

I said all that? I simply wanted to officially hear From Honda and Super GT instead of a questionable source. Nowhere did I say how wrong you were about it all because of the DTM chassis and what not.

Denying it still? Masaki Bandoh is the representative of SuperGT. My quotes and sources were his words, and you denied them. You were also among the crowd saying the DTM chassis only was for FR vehicles.

You love to shove BS in my mouth, don't you? Oh wow you were right (according to what you're telling me), you want a trophy?

If it smells like it, talks like it, replies like it- must be it.

Seriously, just this response alone makes you sound like that annoying kid on the playground that has to be right all the time and when you are, you have to rub it the hell in people's faces. Its why I stopped posting in the Super GT Thread so much.

You were wrong, now you wanna cry about me saying I was right? My 'sources' weren't good enough for you even though they said the same thing as the story that finally put it to bed. Go cry about it somewhere. You got laughed out the sandbox when you were younger? Kids pick on you on the jungle gym? You're not my friend. I don't care what you say or think- you were wrong. Just like you assumptions about me and your story book replies. This whole argument is pointless- the interest in LMP2 being a reason to keep that class in USCR is a non-issue. It's just an easier route for the DP's to remain the 'top draw'.

 

[Wilbur]

It's not surprising when it costs millions of dollars just to finish last. Make p1 sorta like the f1 of sports car racing. Thats the only way to keep it going imo. Not enough eggs to spread out to different markets. LMP2 would be really popular in the US if DP didn't exist. That's the only thing hampering LMP2 competition.

Not a half bad idea either! LMP only series, wonder how that would go, I'm assuming it would only look good on paper but could be wrong.

The issue I see with LMP 2 in the states for most America's who don't follow it. They don't understand all the classes and to blind eye LMP 1/2/C all look similar enough but in the Grand Am, it's easy to pick out too class.

This is all coming from someone still learning (I understand the differences now) but I think that's one reason why they possibly are going route they are. Granted I wouldn't mind a DP being faster and I think overall they need some updating as I think the closed LMP look sleek compared.

 

[cnd01]

Not a half bad idea either! LMP only series, wonder how that would go, I'm assuming it would only look good on paper but could be wrong.

The issue I see with LMP 2 in the states for most America's who don't follow it. They don't understand all the classes and to blind eye LMP 1/2/C all look similar enough but in the Grand Am, it's easy to pick out too class.

This is all coming from someone still learning (I understand the differences now) but I think that's one reason why they possibly are going route they are. Granted I wouldn't mind a DP being faster and I think overall they need some updating as I think the closed LMP look sleek compared.

I would be all for some updating on the DP as long as it doesn't drive costs through the roof. You nake another great point about LMP in America in that the casual fan has a hard time figuring out what's going on with 3 LMP classes.

 

[RACECAR]

Nah. You just like laughing.

Well, its better then raging at everything, isn't it?

Wait, what? Lola's are a good deal cheaper than an HPD first of all. And like I said, you need a history lesson. Honda cancelled the car- http://www.mulsannescorner.com/AcuraARX-02.html
That wasn't hard was it?

The Lola I was reffering to was this:

He was able run that with no support from Lola, but couldn't run the car on his own? Ok he couldn't run the ARX-02A because Honda pulled that plug fair enough, but he couldn't do anything with the ARX-03A?

Also: Yay, you argued a point with a reputable link 👍

I know you didn't start it. That isn't the point. This topic isn't even worth bringing up. A rumor is what it is, correct? So don't fault me for saying the rumor is Porsche had intent to run LMP1 in ALMS for 2014.

There's where you're getting things twisted. You're not even holding a discussion, you're just jumping the gun trying to 'prove' me wrong. I just said I know that rumor and it wasn't you. The hypocritical part is you try to say I'm wrong for speaking of a rumor but you speak of one yourself! That's the very definition of hypocrite!

this is the 3rd time you've brought this up. If you don't want to be associated with it why bring it up in the first place?

I didn't see where you indicated that was a rumor prior (perhaps I missed it somewhere) so had I known that was a rumor, I wouldn't be under the impression it was some questionable claim. As for The rumor I bought up, again it was a joke. I shared it is humorous jest in response to your point about P1 but unfortunately, you've taken it as me "Being a Hypocrite". Guess I should be more obvious with my jokes and stop expecting everyone to pick up the subtle hint. So now that I know you were posting a rumor and that the rumor I posted was again a joke not even meant to be serious, lets just drop it.

You thought I was a 'sportscar elitist' and NASCAR is at fault. That's odd that you now say I'm putting words in your mouth. Especially when you said this.

But did I outright say you were one? Yes I did mention how your argument sounded like those elitists, but not once have I called you nor indicated you were an elitist, only that you sounded like them (the brainwashing part in particular).

BTW, I took the NASCAR assumption back so you can stop now (which I wanted to happen In the first place)

Wow, you have a knack for observation of the obvious! The size of the P1 grid isn't the question

That wasn't the point! Obviously you failed to see it. The point is there was 3 teams in P1 this season, and possibly 4 with the addition of Porsche next year. There were 0 teams in P2 beginning this year until ESM decided to drop out GTE because they knew they couldn't compete! Now there is 2 teams in P2. Still less than the 3 in P1.

You argued that P1's removal due to costs and interest in the ALMS was something that was merely a belief (and mentioned something about brainwashing) and seemingly try to convey that it isn't at all fact. I disagreed and again thats the reason why I posted all those season results.

hah! You've got to be kidding me. The P2 rules have been stable for as long as P1! You really do need a history lesson. You keep harping on about P1 being in trouble but fail to grasp that P2 had less entries, NO takers until the last minute.

I don't need a history lesson. Also, I didn't say they were unstable, only that they were still fairly new (this only being the third season of said rules), this is exactly what I mean by you putting words in my mouth as I didn't even say that:

2. Maybe because the P2 class is supposed to be the Cost-capped solution unlike P1? Unlike P1, the new P2 rules are still fairly new to the ALMS so just because we initially didn't see any other P2 teams didn't mean it was in danger since unlike P1, which as I showed has been in trouble for the last four years

Funny enough, you keep mentioning P2 also being in trouble as if to somehow make P1's removal unfair yet you don't mention the part where at the time, the USCR's class Structure wasn't announced yet. Seeing as it was made perfectly clear that P1 would be removed and GTE would remain intact even before said announcement, naturally those two classes already had commited teams because they already knew before hand what they had way before the announcement. So lets look at the past few seasons:


2009 LMP2 Class

Lowes Fernanadez Racing
Dyson Racing


2010 LMP Class (Combined P1 & P2)

Patron Highcroft Racing (P2)
Muscle Milk Team Cytosport (P2)
Drayson Racing*(P1)
Dyson Racing Team(P2)
Intersport Racing*(P1)
Autocon Motorsports*(P1)


2011 LMP2 Class

Level 5


2012 LMP2 Class

Level 5 Motorsports
Conquest Endurance
Dempsey Racing
Black Swan Racing


In contrast to P1, the P2 class has actually been up and down and only for a 2nd time did it looks like it was going to be a one car team this year. Before you ask, I post those (once again pulled from ALMS) to back my counter to your argument that P2 was just as much in trouble as P1.

It makes no difference. They intend to stay in P1- that dying class you speak about.

Again with shoving crap I did not say in my mouth, although kinda fits consider it isn't in the ELMS either.

You don't take a privateer team? So what is Grand Am? You don't take seriously a guy who won LeMans 3 times? As for his diesel he wasn't as fast in, what do you expect? He's not the factory team. He only had a car on borrow. He didn't have nearly the experience that Peugeot had, nor the drivers. Oreca didn't challenge until all the factory 908's had been retired from LeMans. Gives you an insight that they were being held back. They won Sebring in 2011 because Pegueot's new 908 had never ran a race and encountered issues. Even the HPD beat them!

What do you mean by "You don't take a privateer team?" or "So what is Grand-Am?" If you actually read the whole thing, I said I find it hard to take Henri himself seriously because of him being the loudest to complain yet failing to keep up when he had the same equipment, nothing about not listening to him because he was a privateer or whatever you are saying (you really have confused me with that). Yeah I know he won Le Mans several times, doesn't mean I should automatically listen everytime he complains. Tony Stewart is a three time Cup champ, I'll still call BS on his hypocritical attitude towards other drivers regardless when he complains. Should I take Scott Tucker, a criminal who's already commited fraud and who's racing operation is practically founded on stolen money from his fake loan business in Kentucky, seriously because he's a champion? Admittingly abit of an extreme example, I just really despise him with a passion, but you (hopefully) get my point.

Back on topic, Oreca also wasn't a factory team yet in 2010 at Le Mans, they were the ones chasing the Audi (and catching might I add) when the factory cars blew up. Of course it blew up too (I still remember that look of disappointment on Hugh's face), but it was quite quick enough itself. Yeah, I saw the Sebring Victory and saw the factory cars have trouble.

Denying it still? Masaki Bandoh is the representative of SuperGT. My quotes and sources were his words, and you denied them. You were also among the crowd saying the DTM chassis only was for FR vehicles.

Wow, really?

Where am I "Denying it"? Again I never even said anything about the whole FR Vehicles, you are simply lumping me in the same group that didn't agree with you.

You were wrong, now you wanna cry about me saying I was right? My 'sources' weren't good enough for you even though they said the same thing as the story that finally put it to bed. Go cry about it somewhere. You got laughed out the sandbox when you were younger? Kids pick on you on the jungle gym? You're not my friend. I don't care what you say or think- you were wrong. Just like you assumptions about me and your story book replies.

Again, you made yourself look silly. I disagreed with many of your points, made some ill-informed assumptions (which I did take back), but I've avoided taking any personal shots and even threw in a joke just to lighten things up yet you come back not only with a response but with this hilarious part all because I disagreed with many of your points, which is funny. Favorite part by far: "You're not my Friend" And this after you tell me about "Storybook replies" and saying that I'm "crying". You just made a Oscar winning performance with that all in itself. That right there sounds abit like someone is mad.

Obviously you're the one guy I cannot disagree with and make a case for my disagreement without it turning silly somehow so I'll just leave it alone. PM me if you want to continue this otherwise I'll just end this before more brain cells are destroyed.

 

[Earth]

It seems there is support to stamp P2 out of the future of USCR

"There's no way a P2 car can survive a 24-hour battle [at Daytona],”

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/uscr-series-teams-working-towards-2014-dp-regulations/P1

In the end, my opinion is DPs need to be faster no matter what. Part of making them faster is giving them more advanced aero, things sportscar fans like to begin with. 6 seconds faster? Not really necessary. 3 seconds faster? Definitely.

 

[FoolKiller]

If they go down this road then I'm afraid we may lose all the unique LeMans aspects from thi unified team, and I can't say I'd stick around to watch.

I know I'm in the minority, but I was a P1 fan. I loved the engineering. When I attend races I like getting to the paddock early enough to watch the cars getting prepped and occasionally talking to the guys working on the cars. I'd go over to the tire manufacturer tents to watch them testing the used tires. If DP refuses to change and pushes P2 out then I desperately hope they have a few cases of the GT cars out performing the DP cars. Some inter-class battles for overall win would make for great viewing, and might be a wake up call.

But I always feared this would be where it goes. Someone is going to lose what they loved watching and those fans will drift off. One thing these GE need to keep in mind during this process is that a lot of ALMS fans I know considered it the only good autosport in the US. GT classes may keep them around, but not everyone.

 

[RACECAR]

It seems there is support to stamp P2 out of the future of USCR



http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/uscr-series-teams-working-towards-2014-dp-regulations/P1

In the end, my opinion is DPs need to be faster no matter what. Part of making them faster is giving them more advanced aero, things sportscar fans like to begin with. 6 seconds faster? Not really necessary. 3 seconds faster? Definitely.

It seems like its only Mike Shank and Wayne Taylor (the same guy who stopped racing in anything ACO sanctioned) that want this unsurprisingly. Not really liking the attitude those two have as they don't relize LMP2 is part of that Le Mans link. Would love for the sanctioning to keep P2.

 

[Wilbur]

I like DP's and even pull for Shank but he sounds a babbling idiot about the changes. Rear wings aren't going to blow the cost out the window, nor will anything else really. The wind tunnel stuff will be I'd think USRS or whatever it's called will take teams to see what each one is doing not so much private testing.

Now I understand why LMP1 isn't much of an option as it isn't really a class most can or even want to play in anymore but what I do enjoy out of it was all the technology that has been used in it. I find that extremely interesting even more than the racing itself as I can always spend more time in a garage than anywhere else.

They don't need to bump LMP2 either, it's what ALMS was different styles of Prototypes and we need to keep that or else LeMan's portion just died all together and it's a fancy Grand-AM series from what it seems. Teams need to be able to run a car they own already for most part with upgrades or changes to make both classes equal. Every car in GT isn't equal completely, some shine on a style of track while others are the class of the field, I think we need to keep that in all classes as best we can. Some will try to slow the GT cars down which isn't what needs to happen, as even if you do that the slower prototypes still will be caught, while you just slow race pace down for no reason.

If I was going to change top class, I would take LMP2 to Daytona first test and see what they do in current trim (don't use old data), then being DP there with options to speed them up. Yes I understand this is a long shot but I don't want a Grand-AM series that killed ALMS, that's a bad move and this is coming from someone who knows very little about each series overall other than class's and some little things here and there.

 

[cnd01]

I'd listen to team owners. The buck stops with them ultimately.

 

[hawkeye122]

I'd listen to team owners. The buck stops with them ultimately.

Of course you would, because you irrationally hate the LMP cars.

P2's can't last at Daytona? What kind of garbage is that? Yeah, ok then. That's why many run faultlessly at Sebring and Le Mans, year after year. Those tracks are much more rough than Daytona.

What needs to stop is the close-minded attitude of all the DP guys, and the unsportsmanlike body contact they all get to do with no consequences.

 

[Mac K]

The arguing between fans of both series is actually laughable, I don't quite get it...

 

[cnd01]

P2's can't last at Daytona? What kind of garbage is that? Yeah, ok then. That's why many run faultlessly at Sebring and Le Mans, year after year. Those tracks are much more rough than Daytona.

Peter was referring to the amount of contact that happens between DP during the race, but what do I know, I've only watched the race at the track 9 out of the last 10 years. I'm not a FIA WEC LMP2 Championship team owner and a NAEC DP team owner, so I'm going to defer to him when it comes to what will and will not last at Daytona

video evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqP9VE6oW_c&safe=active

Not to mention the top 3 PC cars beat every P2 car at the ALMS race at Long Beach...http://www.alms.com/results

What needs to stop is the close-minded attitude of all the DP guys, and the unsportsmanlike body contact they all get to do with no consequences.

10 years of irrational hatred toward DP isn't unsportsmanlike body contact too?

 

[RACECAR]

What needs to stop is the close-minded attitude of all the DP guys, and the unsportsmanlike body contact they all get to do with no consequences.

So its okay in say BTCC, but not in Sports cars?

 

[Hernan04]

Katherine Legge to race at Monterey driving a DeltaWing car

Legge joins Andy Meyrick to create an all-English driver lineup for the DeltaWing’s first start in Laguna Seca.
Link

 

[cnd01]

Katherine Legge to race at Monterey driving a DeltaWing car

Legge joins Andy Meyrick to create an all-English driver lineup for the DeltaWing’s first start in Laguna Seca.
Link

Im trying so hard not to say anything lewd about a girl driving a vehicle shaped like a Johnson

 

[BKGlover]

^Mission Failed^

On the LMP subject (AGAIN), I've been begrudgingly looking at both arguments and have come to a conclusion neither, most likely no-one, will like. It isn't that P1(and P2) aren't popular, people love the speed, power, and cutting-edge stuff included, but it isn't that there is no support, as has been obvious that the cars still run. No, the conclusion I have come to is that, once again, it all comes down to what make more money. P1 draws, DP draws, so that SHOULDN'T be the case, but as I think about it, there must have been some sort of compromise monetarily that would not only bring in the most cash, but not hemmorage it just as fast.

This is NOT a fact, but my theory. I will say now, I hope I am 100% wrong, but the more I think about it, the more I come around to thinking "Backroom Politics", to over-simplify.

 

[Wilbur]

It just seems there are some DP guys who complain about money issue, well top level motorsports isn't a cheap business to run. Instead of running off at the mouth, start figuring out how to get your cars faster or able to compete.

It seems ALMS teams just put their big boy underwear on and try to figure out how to win or what's lacking while Grand-AM just have gotten so comfy in current setting that they don't want to change. Here is an idea, go find another series to run if you don't like it.

 

[cnd01]

It just seems there are some DP guys who complain about money issue, well top level motorsports isn't a cheap business to run. Instead of running off at the mouth, start figuring out how to get your cars faster or able to compete.

It seems ALMS teams just put their big boy underwear on and try to figure out how to win or what's lacking while Grand-AM just have gotten so comfy in current setting that they don't want to change. Here is an idea, go find another series to run if you don't like it.

How much faster is "fast" though?

Remember, grand am is buying the alms out, so it would be assumed that grand am would keep its priorities first. Grand am cars compete with each very well. Another note: grand am teams just shelled out 250K a car to upgrade gen 2 DP to gen 3 specs in the last 2 years. I can see why owners might have beef with extra changes.

I agree with you saying "if you don't like it, run another series." Well, that's my advice to anyone unhappy about the merger. Dyson is already getting ready to change his cars. I support upgrading DP as long as the formula doesn't change.