400PP Nordschleife Shootout

[mike_gt3]

Those are some outstanding times Mike. Thanks for throwing the CTR about, seems like I wrung the most I could out of it. I thought FWD might still stand a chance up to about 450PP on these tyres, but alas that doesn't seem to be the case.

Props to Herman, we've traded places throughout this round, but I think he'll be the cat that gets the milk 👍

{Cy}

Yes it was very good, it had a nice balance and not much understeer considering its FWD, liked the gearing too. The other cars are just superior from the start

 

[Onboy123]

10- Onboy123 Fiat Punto HGT abarth '00
8:24.900
Speed under bridge: 218kmh
Lot of oversteer, too low suspension, poor top end power, did only 2 complete lap, its not fun to drive unfortunatly. I did some tweaks on the suspension and diff setting and could shave 0.700 in the first 2 splits and the car had 4 less hp it needed an oil change(vs the 8:24.900 at full power). I was expecting better, the car looked good and had a nice sound though.


To me, they were all really close fun wise, except the Fiat (sorry Onboy)

Eh, expected. As explained for countless times, I didn't give the second round much thought, as opposed to the first round where I was suffering from a case of OCD with the Hyundai's gears and power to weight. So yea, car is crap, so sorry for wasting your time.

 

[mike_gt3]

Eh, expected. As explained for countless times, I didn't give the second round much thought, as opposed to the first round where I was suffering from a case of OCD with the Hyundai's gears and power to weight. So yea, car is crap, so sorry for wasting your time.

Dont feel bad, i was happy to give your car a try We both know you can do great tunes

 

[Onboy123]

Dont feel bad, i was happy to give your car a try We both know you can do great tunes

Eh, I don't feel bad as such, I just feel a bit of a cock when I had the Round 1 Hyundai and the backup '99 Turbulence to use, and didn't but went for this loony Italian. Great? You're too kind, more like "slightly above average at best". Still, more praise to you and your (as usual) epic skillz on the Green Hell.

 

[praiano63]

Finaly, its done!




1- praiano63 Lotus Elise 111R '04
8:03.198
Speed under bridge: 228
Very fast car, quickest around the track, plenty of grip at any speed, good gearing, look and sound, only complaints (not really bad) would be you cannot use its drivetrain at your advantage, any loss of grip will result in a loss of time, slow entry fast exit apply to this car, once you find the line it will be fast!, the other one would be running on cobblestone sometimes make the car react brutaly, you need to be careful and use the right line. awesome car once again praiano!

Thanks Mike, great drive on the video, don`t worry for the driver choice, i have build this car looking exactly for this result. Anybody with any skills can be fast with it. Like i say in my driver choice, i prefer cars like Zigatan 111s for the fun.
I just don`t know how do you do to have so cleans lines when you drive, even with a wheel, this is a great performance.
Congratulations.

 

[mike_gt3]

Thank you my friend!
Your time was really good too, 8:04 is very quick.
Its hard to describe with my english, but its almost like you have to get the wheel straight before you exit the corner... not really but it feel like that somehow... you can see it in the video but still doesnt recreate exactly the wheel movement, i try to turn it gradualy on exit, and countersteering movement should be kept at minimum, sometime i barely move the wheel on countersteering unless the car understeer brutaly, take some time to get used to it.

you can see at 0:53.000 in the video when it touched the grass i barely countersteer rapidly, just small burst because i felt the car may want to oversteer since it was touching the grass, it helped and didnt slowed it down, without preventive counter steer it would probably get a little sideways and get me on the left side of the track and cost a tenth.

another example would be at 1:05 taking the curve, i countersteered if you watch closely around 1:08 in that curve, not because it was sliding but to keep the line smooth, you can see the wheel move, if i kept it steady the rear of the car would have become unstable, not a lot, but it would have slowed down. It was more preventive than anything, but can shave a small amount of time.

You can also prevent some oversteer on deceleration using both foot to drive, in some area i give a little throttle while braking, this will help keep the car on its line and keep more grip.

 

[praiano63]

Thank you my friend!
Your time was really good too, 8:04 is very quick.
Its hard to describe with my english, but its almost like you have to get the wheel straight before you exit the corner... not really but it feel like that somehow... you can see it in the video but still doesnt recreate exactly the wheel movement, i try to turn it gradualy on exit, and countersteering movement should be kept at minimum, sometime i barely move the wheel on countersteering unless the car understeer brutaly, take some time to get used to it.

you can see at 0:53.000 in the video when it touched the grass i barely countersteer rapidly, just small burst because i felt the car may want to oversteer since it was touching the grass, it helped and didnt slowed it down, without preventive counter steer it would probably get a little sideways and get me on the left side of the track and cost a tenth.

another example would be at 1:05 taking the curve, i countersteered if you watch closely around 1:08 in that curve, not because it was sliding but to keep the line smooth, you can see the wheel move, if i kept it steady the rear of the car would have become unstable, not a lot, but it would have slowed down. It was more preventive than anything, but can shave a small amount of time.

You can also prevent some oversteer on deceleration using both foot to drive, in some area i give a little throttle while braking, this will help keep the car on its line and keep more grip.

Will try to learn this, i looked at this video 5 times, but yet no way to find the clean line, my 8:04 look more like a battle against the wheel.

For the provisory classification, hhere is it. Need 4 times Mr Grado and CSLACR to finish,... Jackthalad - PSN: CHRYSTALBUDS,DigitalBaka - PSN: DigitalBaka ???

 

[CyKosis1973]

Tense stuff. You could throw a dish cloth over 2nd to 6th place...

{Cy}

 

[Hermanvongerman]

Mike that Lap you posted with Praiannos lotus was absolutely sensational to watch!!!!

one of the smoothest laps of Nurburgring I've seen on GT5 thats for sure

 

[luv2drive]

Final Results

Once again, I had a blast with this shootout, and I defintely learned a lot.

I think I've got RWD figured out for the most part, although it's clearly evident from my times that I've still got some learning to do and skills to acquire. I still did much better with the cars which were more forgiving, and not so well with those that weren't.

I also have to agree with Cy and others who have said that part of this has to due purely with some tunes being better matched to a driver's style.

In any case here are my results:

1- praiano63 Lotus Elise 111R '04
8:15.748
I really enjoyed this car! I felt completely comfortable with it and had loads of fun driving it. For me the balance was perfect, and somehow it must have fit my style perfectly, because I was able to drive it faster by far than any other car in the competition. Others have stated that it's too easy to drive, but is that a problem? The car smokes around the track and the grip is superb. What's not to like? For me, easily my driver's choice.

2- Zigatan Lotus Elise 111S '03
8:22.768
This car was lots of fun as well. I really enjoyed both of the Loti. This one was just a little more squirrelly which forced me to drive a little more conservatively than I had to with praiano's entry. I constantly felt that I should have been able to drive it faster, but simply couldn't. I chalk this up to my lack of skill, not the car.

3- Jackthalad Honda S2000 '03
8:23.776
This car had excellent handling and grip. I found it had a little extra oversteer but it wasn't too bad. Also lots of fun to drive.

4- MotorCityHami Mazda RX-8 Type-S '07
8:24.421
Really enjoyed this car a lot, including the sound. I guess I just like the RX-8 in general. This car had super grip and was extremely responsive. I felt it would do whatever I wanted it to at any time. It fits my style very well, just doesn't seem to have the same speed as some of the others, but the handling and balance were excellent. Great tune.

5- RotaryJunkie RX-8 Type-E '03
8:25.205
Enjoyed this RX-8 as well. Very similar to the other RX-8 entry, and my times were pretty close as well. I think the slightly additional oversteer is what made the difference for me in terms of lap times

6- Cykosis Civic Type-R EP '04
8:25.897
I really loved this car! Perfect balance. Like praiano's and MotorCityHami's cars, I felt I had complete control over the car at all times. Acceleration was great, loved the sound. I felt I should have been able to go a bit faster, not sure why I couldn't.

7- CSLACR S2000 '06
8:25.966
Enjoyed this car as well. I guess I'm still not skilled enough to be able to describe the difference between this one and Jackthalad's entry. Somehow I was more comfortable with the other S2000. This may be just a style thing.

8- Jontank Integra Type-R (DC2) '95
8:27.634
Being that I'm such an Acura fan I expected to enjoy this car more than I actually did. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed it. The handling was great as to be expected from an Integra, but I'm not sure why I couldn't do more with it. I will say that it did feel a bit sluggish at times, but this could simply be because it was one of the heavier entries

9- Onboy123 Fiat Punto HGT abarth '00
8:32.282
I didn't really enjoy this car very much. It seemed to have much more potential, but I found it to have major understeer, and really suffered from a lack of top speed that the other cars possessed. In undertand Onboy123 didn't have as much time to perfect this entry, so that makes sense.

10- TRIS_73 Lexus IS200
8:34.344
This car more than any other highlighted my lack of driving skill I suppose. It was really the only car where my times weren't proportional to the other drivers. That in itself is somewhat of an accomplishment for me over round 1 where I didn't do justice to many of the RWD entries. Initially it really took me quite a while to figure out how to deal with the massive oversteer on exit. And I never really did completely. In this round, this is the only car that I never felt that I figured out how to drive consistently. As a result, I had to drive much more conservatively than I would have liked, and as a result, my "low speed" through most corners was 5-10 mph slower than with the other cars. This combined with the poor acceleration of the Lexus doomed my result. This car had one of the fastest top speeds but this acceleration issue negated any advantage that might have had

Anyway, as I said really enjoyed the shootout overall, and I'm already looking forward to the next one.


Driver's Choice

1 - praiano63 - Lotus Elise 111R '04
2 - MotorCityHami - Mazda RX-8 Type-S '07
3 - CyKosis1973 - Honda Civic Type-R EP '04

 

[mike_gt3]

Mike that Lap you posted with Praiannos lotus was absolutely sensational to watch!!!!

one of the smoothest laps of Nurburgring I've seen on GT5 thats for sure

Thank you Hermanvongerman! i will post other one soon.

 

[luv2drive]

Mike that Lap you posted with Praiannos lotus was absolutely sensational to watch!!!!

one of the smoothest laps of Nurburgring I've seen on GT5 thats for sure

I have to agree! And extra thanks Mike for posting these. Much of my improvement between round 1 and round 2 can be attributed to watching the videos of CSLACR's Integra and Priano's MR2 you posted last time.

And this lap with the Lotus was definitely pretty spectacular!

 

[CSLACR]

1. Praiano63: 8:05.901
2. Zigatan: 8:07.814
3. CSLACR: 8:10.646
4. MotorCtyHami: 8:11.253
5. Jackthalad: 8:11.316
6. Rotary Junkie: 8:11.887
7. Jontank: 8:13.698
8. CyKosis: 8:15.008
9. Tris_73: 8:17.701
10.Onboy123: 8:22.970


1. Praiano63: 8:05.901
A little over-steer, a little more than I'd like entering corners, but pretty close to perfect.


2. Zigatan: 8:07.814
A tiny bit over-steery high speed and under braking, great drive, feels like a go-kart.


3. CSLACR: 8:10.646
I usually like my own tunes, this is no exception.


4. MotorCtyHami: 8:11.253
Over-steer on entry, under-steer mid corner and exit. Feels a bit heavy, this was a pretty good lap, I expected more reading the other remarks tbh. Very good car though.


5. Jackthalad: 8:11.316
A little over-steer on entry, a little under on exit, possibly the most fun car here, lots of grip on the standard S2000, more than the premium.


6. Rotary Junkie: 8:11.887
Great car, still a little loose on entry, lsd maybe a tad too high and it's pretty bouncy over the rumbles and bumps of the Nordschleife.


7. Jontank: 8:13.698
It's actually pretty under-steery, the lsd sends a little too much power to the outside wheels, and it needs a longer second gear. It seems tuned for a speed, you can't ever exceed that speed, because you'll go off straight into the grass, but that speed it still pretty fast, feels like a classic FF in many ways.


8. CyKosis: 8:15.008
Under-steer, and lots of it. This was one of very few cars I could take the last turn before the straight without lifting. Can't brake late, or exit early whatsoever. I think if you let the rear come out and play this would have beaten the Acura hands down, tbh.


9. Tris_73: 8:17.701
Under-steering suspension, over-steering LSD. Very difficult to drive, as you can't tell where the limit is until you've crossed it. Extremely entertaining to drive though.👍


10.Onboy123: 8:22.970
Not nearly as bad as I expected, it under-steers, but less than the other FF's somewhat, lsd hurt some corner exit by sliding too wide, but the gears were great, and really were the saving grace for this slow, poor cornering car. Certainly not terrible for what the car's limits are.


Drivers choice:
1. Jackthalad
2. Theo
3. Rotary Junkie

 

[mike_gt3]

Nice laps Dom !

 

[sheephead99]

seems like the final round has been fun the cars seem to have all done well. Well done

On another topic, is there any word on the next shootout? I wanna get back in the drivers seat for some tuning

 

[XDesperado67]

seems like the final round has been fun the cars seem to have all done well. Well done

On another topic, is there any word on the next shootout? I wanna get back in the drivers seat for some tuning

Next shootout just got posted.

 

[CSLACR]

Nice laps Dom !

Not too shabby there yourself.

 

[mike_gt3]

Not too shabby there yourself.

Thx!


Theo777's Lotus Elise 111S:

 

[CyKosis1973]

6- Cykosis Civic Type-R EP '04
8:25.897
I really loved this car! Perfect balance. Like praiano's and MotorCityHami's cars, I felt I had complete control over the car at all times. Acceleration was great, loved the sound. I felt I should have been able to go a bit faster, not sure why I couldn't.

1 - praiano63 - Lotus Elise 111R '04
2 - MotorCityHami - Mazda RX-8 Type-S '07
3 - CyKosis1973 - Honda Civic Type-R EP '04

Woohoo, a driver's choice..!! Glad you enjoyed the car. And yes, I think this shootout has really polarised some cars and their builds.

8. CyKosis: 8:15.008
Under-steer, and lots of it. This was one of very few cars I could take the last turn before the straight without lifting. Can't brake late, or exit early whatsoever. I think if you let the rear come out and play this would have beaten the Acura hands down, tbh.

That, Sir, is because you're taking it beyond its performance envelope. The best I ever managed was an 8:18 and I felt it was on the edge of disaster throughout. Apparently there was still a little room left

{Cy}

 

[CSLACR]

Woohoo, a driver's choice..!! Glad you enjoyed the car. And yes, I think this shootout has really polarised some cars and their builds.



That, Sir, is because you're taking it beyond its performance envelope. The best I ever managed was an 8:18 and I felt it was on the edge of disaster throughout. Apparently there was still a little room left

{Cy}

Something I realized, is that I've gotten so used to making cars drive exactly as I want them too, it takes longer for me to adjust my driving style to match other cars.
I see I ran my car faster than anyone, including Mike, yet ran every other car slower (except Onboy's Punto )
Next time I'll probably do as planned, and not enter a tune, just test drive so as not to give out this advantage to myself.


It was certainly fun, so big thanks to all who took part, helping make this happen, and I can make up some final results on Tuesday when I have off work again.(And start going into prize payouts for those special folks)

 

[praiano63]

So here are the finals times from testers who have tested all the 10 cars only.
Hope it can help you to pulblish your final results.
It was a great shootout on my favorite track. I will not be able to do the next one, don`t know when i will play again, in a week or two i will begin a long trip with my bags, on the road again.

Good day everybody.

 

[CSLACR]

Thanks buddy.
Enjoy your venture too.👍

Anyone notice the overall times match exactly to Mike's order, and nobody else's?

 

[praiano63]

Thanks buddy.
Enjoy your venture too.👍

Anyone notice the overall times match exactly to Mike's order, and nobody else's?

I have almost the same order too, only you and RJ that are inverted with a difference of 0.100 seconds.

 

[mike_gt3]

Well done everyone! Thx Laurent for the final results sheet 👍
and thx Dom for the shootout i really enjoyed driving all the cars.

With the Punto i did 2 laps, the first lap i cleaned the guardrails and cut the grass , then i did clean lap, 8:22 is nice!

I didnt noticed you had a faster time with your car, good job! i had a good pace with it, i would need more time to improve that. 👍

edit: and have a nice trip Laurent, keep us posted!

 

[Onboy123]

I like how we've wrapped up the event already and CSLACR still hasn't posted his round 1 reviews yet. Anyways, good shootout this, well, it started well for me. First car to ever use a nose up tune for circuit that I've tuned, first time into the finals, first time int the top ten (alright, 10 out of 10, but still, gimme a break, it's the top ten. ), I'm quite happy with this one.

If only I used the retuned Tuscani, god knows how high I would have come…

 

[CSLACR]

I have almost the same order too, only you and RJ that are inverted with a difference of 0.100 seconds.

In fairness, you're car was the fastest, so running your own car faster for it being yours wouldn't (or didn't) change anything.
Great stuff from you as always.👍

Well done everyone! Thx Laurent for the final results sheet 👍
and thx Dom for the shootout i really enjoyed driving all the cars.

With the Punto i did 2 laps, the first lap i cleaned the guardrails and cut the grass , then i did clean lap, 8:22 is nice!

I didnt noticed you had a faster time with your car, good job! i had a good pace with it, i would need more time to improve that. 👍

edit: and have a nice trip Laurent, keep us posted!

I ran almost every car 3 laps, but I only ran 2 laps with the Punto, interestingly. I had just driven Jontanks car though, so it being slightly less under-steer prone, combined with 3 laps in the Teggy probably helped. I'm sure it can turn a 19 at hells bells.

I like how we've wrapped up the event already and CSLACR still hasn't posted his round 1 reviews yet. Anyways, good shootout this, well, it started well for me. First car to ever use a nose up tune for circuit that I've tuned, first time into the finals, first time int the top ten (alright, 10 out of 10, but still, gimme a break, it's the top ten. ), I'm quite happy with this one.

If only I used the retuned Tuscani, god knows how high I would have come…

It's just so much typing, and I really don't have anything to add that wasn't covered by Mike and Praiano.

I guess I can if you insist.

 

[CyKosis1973]

Photo finish between the FWD Hondas, nice one Herman 👍

Thanks to everyone that made this possible, my Mom, my Manager and all the fans that bought my album

{Cy}

 

[ryangt]

Photo finish between the FWD Hondas, nice one Herman 👍

Thanks to everyone that made this possible, my Mom, my Manager and all the fans that bought my album

{Cy}

forgot god Cy. XD

 

[Onboy123]

forgot god Cy. XD

Yea, you really need to thank him for letting me forget my Hyundai's readiness, had it been ready, I would be up there, somewhere close to you, maybe ahead but we'll never know...irritatingly.

Edit: @CSLACR, I do insist, for the 4th time. If every tester thought of it like that, we'd only need Praiano and Mike, all other testers would think o themselfs as being rendered redundant when every bit of info and praise helps.

So post the reviews for frickin' sake!

 

[Theo777]

@MrGrado

I tuned the 111s for just a hint of instability in the chassis during mid-low speed cornering. I am glad the small amount of error correction allowed you achieve a quick lap. Awesome driving! 👍

@bypo

Nice driving! Originally I had a setup for the car that was about 2-3 seconds slower at the Ring. Very safe on any speed corner and an curbs. I took a chance and tuned the Grasshopper to have instability in the rear to offer more rotation in mid-slow corners. This didn't work for all drivers and is something I will improve on in future shootouts. Thank you for the feedback!

@mike_gt3

Wow, fantastic driving! The Grasshopper could be a challenge to drive at times but I am amazed at the quick lap you achieved. You really brought out the agressive nature of this jump little car at the limit in the lap replay! Also, thank you for posting the replay! Its great fun watching the car dive into the corners at a speed only an elite driver could manage. I loved the little mini drift at the very end of the video!

@luv2drive

Good driving! I took a gamble making the chassis require much more attention to detail then a safer tune. As a time attack car I still think the loose setup was faster overall. Im glad that you were able to compete a clean lap even if the car darts around like the insect name suggests. Thank you for testing!

@CSLACR

Wonderful driving! I am glad you liked the Grasshopper's unique handling. I learn so much about tuning from these shootouts. This shootout has taught me to try to find a balance between a super safe chassis and an all out time attack special.

I had a blast with tuning for this shootout and watching all the effort that the test drivers put forth.
Great job on a successful shootout CSLACR and great driving test drivers!