AI slow down to let you win.

[Doober]

Cars are even and the races are short...

AI definitely alters their pace to help you win, I'd like to think I can make up 10 sec in a lap, and there are time and tracks that I can pull a big gap on AI even on slower cars. But in races where my lap time varies less than 1 sec and my gap to leader has not changed running that lap time, and all of a sudden I am on AI's arse on the last lap? Somethings are not normal there..

For the normal races thats how it works. I already know that. That was the only possible way I won the I-A Karting championship. Just for the Red Bull challenge I didn't notice them slowing down.

 

[mister dog]

I just could not get past the awful driving physics, put it aside 2 weeks after I bought it after not being able to get a Lambo around Bathurst in one piece on my own! It was like trying to turn an oil tanker and the cars would veer horribly also. Actually, now that I remember, when turning, it felt like the cars had one wheel in the centre of the body. That sound right? Loved the first one, particularly the sounds. Bit arcady in NFS but they should have stuck with the same physics in 2 IMHO.

- Don't buy the PS3 version as it's full of steering lag.
- Take some time to adjust your wheel and the advanced settings in game.

Voilà; you have one of the most exciting racing games available now (although i have to agree the physics are not as realistic as GT or FM).

 

[tarantula]

They need to take catch-up off and reel in the first place driver. I haven't had a race yet where I pass the 2nd place guy, only to see that the guy in first place is 10 seconds ahead. He shouldn't be that far ahead, and without catchup he would be impossible to beat.

 

[Tenacious D]

This seems to be rather like the sound issue, that some things have improved, some things not. While for me, these are the best bots in the GT series, they are something of a mixed bag. While much of my experience has been like HBR-Roadhog's, I've also blown through races with a 75PP handicap. The funny thing is, once again, the code for fast, competitive bots is in Arcade Mode. While they sometimes slow down and let you catch them, not always, and they rarely let you win. I've used Arcade races to train for tracks I don't know well or are new to, like the Kart Spaces and Ascari. I usually have to race my bum off, and occasionally I'm stuck a certain distance behind the leader and just can't get any closer.

Because of the multitude of cars and tunes available, this serves more than well enough as a difficulty setting, but I'm sure this hasn't occurred to a good portion of the fanbase who don't hang out at boards like this. Plus with rare standing starts, no qualifying and other factors which really would help out the game, I can understand people's vexations.

Maybe this is one of those things the coding team is working on. They're up to something, B-Spec isn't in yet, and they have a basis to work with. In GT5's Course Maker, every race was a standing start. There was qualifying in previous GT games, and in GT5's Online Mode. In GT5 Prologue, Arcade Mode had a wonderful difficulty scale of 1 to 100, though much of that was in assigning more or less powerful cars, but it's there. Arcade bot code in both GT5 and 6 are much more challenging.

Recode a number of events in Single Player to include this stuff, and GT6 takes a huge step towards 2.0.

 

[MeanElf]

...This is why there is now a section in the game called "recommended cars" , tells everyone new to GT which car he should get for every part of the game.
So why still make the AI so extreme "dynamic" that you can win with more or less any car ?

Yeah, but most of those are pretty overpowered, well if you pick one you know is good from previous GTs - it is a handy feature though and one I like.

I've no idea why PD made it so dynamic - mine was really just a suggestion as to why the range possibly exists, so we can re-do the races (pretty common practise in GT games) but have fun at the same time.

 

[CarBastard]

The most frustrating thing about the AI is that PD actually made AI quite fast and aggressive. Just not for an entire race. The front runners are fast on the first lap and then go on vacation on the last lap of the race. So PD knows how to program a fast AI and the pace have nothing to do “old” PS3 hardware.
So why not have all of the opponents at the same level, as we have seen from the lead car on the first lap and the aggression from the lead car, when it has been overtaken on the final lap.
If all of the opponents were programmed in that way, we could have some nice close racing with the entire pack and standing starts/qualification should be an option.

This is what I was referring to when I said I thought the AI was fine. They're made right, they're good drivers. I kid you not, I've been fooled a good couple of times and thought they were actually competing with me, that they saw me going inside the corner and tried to close the gap and don't let me overtake. The AI is competitive right up to the point where it's subject to absurd levels of rubber banding.

Kaz, wanna fix GT6's career?

1. Remove rubber-banding.
2. Make grids as closely matched as possible.
3. Grid. Starts. 'Nuff said.
4. Ok, want to know why grid starts? Because short races need shorter gaps between the drivers at race start for everyone to have a shot at winning given that everyone has a competitive pace. If all drivers are closely matched, giving one driver a 11s gap on a 3 laps race won't work at all. They do rolling starts at Le Mans, guess why, because it's 24 hours of racing.
5. QUA-LI-FYING.

There. It's fixed. Make it so PoDi! Honestly, it's the only thing ruining the game for me. Love the career mode events, love the cars, the tracks, I wanna make love to the physics...but please, fix the competition!

 

[Morphisor]

I just entered the 600PP WTCC career event with the '13 N24 GT3 GTR.
I managed 3rd on the Grand Valley Race, and only 7th on the other two races. The AI didn't slow down on any of them!
Hell, on Tokyo R246 the AI was actually faster than I was every single lap! (I was running 1.43-1.44)

Pleasant experience losing like this, since the slowdown had been rather apparent to me lately.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Confirmed. Same race, I managed 5th and the lead Fina F1 stayed 14-15 seconds in front constantly right to the flag.

I've never been so happy to lose a race.

 

[turismoslayer]

I've been following this thread since the beginning because I too felt like something was a bit off. A few things have come to mind over the past couple weeks...

A. We really are that good, or we are just pushing the cars far beyond realistic being this is virtual.

2. We're driving through a field of B-Spec drones. (Like others have said)

D. This is the drama PD was talking about. Along the B-Spec lines, hot and cool drivers.

Maybe PD wants us to race and smell the roses. Who knows.

 

[tarantula]

The catch up doesn't activate until you're in second place. Pay attention and you'll see it's true

 

[jimbo11]

No the reason I caught him was because I was driving fast, staying on the track and then in his slip stream.
He did not spin me out. He did catch me and he tried to pass, would have passed if I would have let him.

I won by a small margin because he was in my slip stream, tried to pass right at the end and I cut him off.

As for programming, I don't think I need anyone to tell me about how they are programed unless of course it is someone who actually wrote the code. I am a professional developer so I know a thing or two about programming.

The point here is that it was a great race and something I see very little of on Nurburgring from the AI. Generally when I play Forza with the AI set to the hardest possible I just run away from the AI and only see them again when I lap them.

GT6 this race was actually fun, and no matter what anyone says they do not let you win I have over 100 loses to prove that already. They do however drive a bit slower when you are slow and faster when you are fast so they do seem to try and give you a chance which is kinda good as different skill levels racing against the same AI can still get a decent race.

In any case I see no evidence of the AI letting you win in any race I have entered. It does appear that there may be some code in place that alters the pace of the AI based on your pace and they do tend to drive a bit slower if you crash early or have a weaker car or just aren't very fast. If you drive hard and avoid mistakes they are fairly quick and they can offer up some entertaining races if you pick the right car.

If you don't see any evidence of them letting you win, then you have not been looking. Driving 18 seconds slower on the last lap just so I can catch up and beat the AI by half a second is exactly "letting me win." Pay more attention and you will see that all of your results so far versus the AI have been false. It's completely ridiculous. Sorry to spoil the illusion.

And for everyone who thinks it's proof that they're not slowing down when the 2nd place car chases you down and stays right behind you - but, for some reason, never actually manages to pass you - well, that's exactly what I've been talking about. They're programmed to let you by and then stay close behind you, to make you think you're actually racing. You're not. It's all fake. Look for it, it's there.

 

[Morphisor]

Sadly, after my good experience with the 600PP WTCC, the slow down was back in the GT3 series championship.

The catch up doesn't activate until you're in second place. Pay attention and you'll see it's true

This is not true. In the aforementioned championship I consistently ran in 4th by the penultimate lap, with the front 3 all in a pack well ahead. Over the last lap and a half or so, they all slow down considerably until I catch up the leader.

 

[grrlpurple]

Final race of La Sarthe in the Supercar Festival, I took a mostly stock Superveloce out on track - all I upgraded was the suspension, brakes and clutch. This brought me in at about 90pp below the entry limit. I flew through the field up to 3rd place but the last two cars really gave me a run for my money - a Ferrari FFX and an Enzo. I took them both coming out of the 2nd lap and into the final one but knew they would outrun me on the long straights - which they both did.

I overtook one again at a chicane and then noticed on the next straight the final car slowed down to allow an easy pass. I was just about to curse the AI once again when Bob found an extra gear and flew back at me. The lead bounced between the two Ferrari's and myself several times on the final lap, including me almost being pitted by one of them at 170mph - it was a real fight to the finish and I took 1st place on the very final chicane before the line. Adrenaline was coursing nicely through my veins and, frankly, that final lap was the most fun I have had in GT to date!

 

[RacingManiac]

For the normal races thats how it works. I already know that. That was the only possible way I won the I-A Karting championship. Just for the Red Bull challenge I didn't notice them slowing down.

BTW there is also another factor with the Red Bull Challenge that doesn't really apply to the rest(though it is the same with the kart), standing start. Where the gap in the beginning of the race wasn't that big. Karting is just karting, I suck at it on the GT Arena(most of other karting tracks are ok, but I just can't figure that place out) and without AI slowing down I never would've caught them....

 

[altid6]

Confirmed. Same race, I managed 5th and the lead Fina F1 stayed 14-15 seconds in front constantly right to the flag.

I've never been so happy to lose a race.

But it is not really racing is it!!!!! Woulden´t it have been more fun, if both of you have started from a grid position of number 1 and 2 and you only lost by 1 sec. and had a fight with the F1 during the entire race. PD have the tools for doing this, so why dont they.

 

[stb155]

IA 15min races a really bad, stupid AI does not even make a prediction for the whole race .
3rd race (Nordschl.) I would have had no problem to catch the leading Fina F1 somewhere in 3rd lap, but he already started to slow down on the begin of the 2nd lap and i overtook him half way throgh it.

Apricot Hill the same, 2nd lap he does 1:20,9 (s2/s3 from his 1st where even faster but you cant tell s1), 3rd lap he is down to 22,2 in 4th already 23,5.
Again i would have cought him anyway if he had stayed at 1:20's
After i overtook him in 6th i tryed to slow down a bit to pull him but didnt really work he become faster but only~ 21,6.
Later i let him pass and stayed close behind him 2 laps, 1st he immediatley slowed down to 1:24, 2nd he did 21,5 again.
Edit: My best was 1:17,8 in the stealth F1.

Its just not possible to have a race because of this idiotic AI slowdown.

 

[CarBastard]

And, when the AI doesn't slow down, it just keeps on going with it's stupidly overpowered car.

The reason why "Catch the rabbit" worked beautifully in GT4's Driving Missions is because they were carefully thought off. But not in GT6. I don't know why the 🤬 a McF1 GTR is on the 600PP touring car championship, it's just stupid. I'm a decent enough driver and can only come in 2nd at GVS after driving my perfect race and 5th at R246 with a BMW M3 GT3. It's 600PP and the AI shows with a car 150HP more powerful, 100KG lighter, and 11 or so seconds ahead?

Shoot yourself in the head Kaz, please. They give us a better structured career mode, they give us GREAT driving physics and yet, they manage to 🤬 the AI in an incredible way. Two steps forward, one step backwards, way to be a perfectionist!!!

 

[stb155]

Yup, the opponent selection is just awful and makes the AI rubberbanding so much worse.

In so many races you have one "nemesis" that is totally overpowered compared to the others, starts P1 and runs away like crazy for the first half of the race , only to "park" it completely on the 2nd half and making you feel like an idiot.

Example:
FXX in IB Allstars or V12 LMR in Dreamcar Championship.
They are so much faster that 3rd is usually 1 minute behind at the finish line.

 

[Alss]

Guys using a car with 100 or so pp less than the AI is not the way to go you may think your getting a better race but believe me your not ( check your live timing's ) by using a car with far lower pp the AI will only go slower for you after lap 1 .

You guys that think your having a close race I feel good for you honest I do but what ever you do don't go and check the AI's lap & sector times after the race as your allusion will be shattered.

 

[BWX]

I think it is just another example of PD's continued march toward lazy game balancing.

GT1 through GT4 was all about balance, and well-thought-out races and the ai was at least competitive. They also had reasonable restrictions to make the races fun and challenging. Since then it has all gone to crap and they don't seem to spend any time on making the races balanced or fun 90% of the time in career mode.

At least in GT5 you could run a slower car, and the ai were predictable enough to at least give you a challenge, although the chase-the-rabbit races were otherwise a lazy design choice to cover their otherwise broken ai.

Now in GT6, that problem is even worse, and they made it much harder for the player to try to have a competitive race against the ai. Now even the old tricks of using a slower car doesn't work half the time because the game is "dumbed down" even further with this "one size fits all", rubber banding, "slowing down to let you win" ai.

I think it's just pure laziness on PD/Kaz's part. The biggest mistake is that they don't even let you turn this ridiculous "feature" off. It seems they just want to be lazy, and make the game easy for the most untalented drivers out there, while letting the people who are fast go pound salt.

 

[HuskyGT]

The A.I is very inconsistent. Sometimes it does fight back with all its strength, but most of the time I've seen the A.I behaving like in GT5 were they brake or let off the gas when you are next to them at a corner exit. Sometimes even when you're behind them. It's kind of annoying.

 

[Gabe Logan]

And, when the AI doesn't slow down, it just keeps on going with it's stupidly overpowered car.

The reason why "Catch the rabbit" worked beautifully in GT4's Driving Missions is because they were carefully thought off. But not in GT6. I don't know why the 🤬 a McF1 GTR is on the 600PP touring car championship, it's just stupid. I'm a decent enough driver and can only come in 2nd at GVS after driving my perfect race and 5th at R246 with a BMW M3 GT3. It's 600PP and the AI shows with a car 150HP more powerful, 100KG lighter, and 11 or so seconds ahead?

So why the huge disparity between the slower and the faster classes ?

There seems to be lots of evidence of races > 600 Pi, being very difficult to catch, but my experience in the < 550 Pi limit races, is that they're far too easy. If the Ai are "stock", in some of the 550 Pi races, the fastest cars Ai cars are around 450 Pi !!!

Maybe it's because the slower licenses are for "Beginners" ??

 

[Sier_Pinski]

I'm taking a quick guess that PD intentionally 'dumbed down' the AI to save on RAM and improve performance slightly. The new physics and other features may be taking up more RAM than in GT5, so PD may have been forced to make the AI simpler. That could explain why they no longer pay attention to your car and constantly spin you out.

 

[BWX]

I don't think it has to do with resources, as sometimes the ai can be fast. I think it was just a design decision.

 

[Tmortn]

You are pretty funny. No really - I am confident I have forgotten more about motorsport in my life than you have ever known.

But the topic is Gran Turismo 6 AI.

Let us approach this logically shall we.

In 4 lap races with you starting in 14th place 40 seconds BEHIND the leader with 1 minute 30s lap, how would YOU propose the game give you a chance of ever winning?

Either they need to allow you to use a car that is 50mph faster than 1st lace car, or the game MUST allow you to catch up within 4 laps so that you can start dicing with the leader.

What is YOUR suggestion?



The game does NOT have standing starts in its current form, so based on what the game DOES have, how else would you propose the game allow you a chance of winning?

How about starting you at the front of the grid to begin with? Thus starting you with a reasonable disadvantage with closely matched and hard driven cars?

How a about incentivizing the PP selection by griding you further back the higher your pp, and farther forward the lower it is? Up to say third for 100 pp less than recommended. This assumes the racing harder from the get to because people are winning easily at 100 pp down at present.

How about user assigned grid from their garage and selectable AI from 'let me win' to 'death to all in front of me'?

How about track day style time trails where you share the track and 'winning' is about your single fastest lap time without committing a dq offense during your best lap. Black flagged if you crash or have a 4 off? Button for point buys? Overheating brakes and tires. Etc... You know, an actual track day format?

How about in a championship series assign grid randomly for the first race the grid by finishing order of previous race.. Or even reverse grid?

How about ANYTHING except having you start in an impossible position and rely on a wait and fight system that is great at waiting and typically sucks majorly at the fight part even when the AI is in a vastly superior car?

 

[Caliper]

So...I'm racing at Monza, lap 2 of 3, I completely miss my braking point on the main straight and get wedged between those white wall markers to prevent corner cutting, takes me about 15 seconds to clear and I still win by 2 seconds.

LOL! dumb!
I can't believe I don't have a 100% race win because I dropped out a race by mistake.

 

[CarBastard]

How about starting you at the front of the grid to begin with? Thus starting you with a reasonable disadvantage with closely matched and hard driven cars?

How a about incentivizing the PP selection by griding you further back the higher your pp, and farther forward the lower it is? Up to say third for 100 pp less than recommended. This assumes the racing harder from the get to because people are winning easily at 100 pp down at present.

How about user assigned grid from their garage and selectable AI from 'let me win' to 'death to all in front of me'?

How about track day style time trails where you share the track and 'winning' is about your single fastest lap time without committing a dq offense during your best lap. Black flagged if you crash or have a 4 off? Button for point buys? Overheating brakes and tires. Etc... You know, an actual track day format?

How about in a championship series assign grid randomly for the first race the grid by finishing order of previous race.. Or even reverse grid?

How about ANYTHING except having you start in an impossible position and rely on a wait and fight system that is great at waiting and typically sucks majorly at the fight part even when the AI is in a vastly superior car?

How about NO?

 

[Brend]

iA 15 Minute Races with a GT-R GT3 is pretty damn fun.

 

[Uday9479]

I was racing within the National A set of races in Cote De Azur. I was 16 seconds adrift from the leader on the 2nd lap but was only 6 seconds on the 3rd & final lap.

Ultimately won the race.

Don't know why the AI become so unprofessional?

 

[Tmortn]

Does seem to sum it up. Gripes aside I am mostly happy with the game. Just wish career mode was more interesting rather than a means to an end. Once I have the cars I want I spend most of my time in free run or time trails... Until, I want something else.