FFB 1.12 Update

[Dragonwhisky]

I agree with you down the line wahwah.

I will state it baldly, if forced to consider purchasing an entirely new, sub standard, by my reckoning, at least in regards to the pedal and feature set of that T300, to the G27 wheel controller, wherein that controller set cost will rival the cost of the console and the game, my Gran Turismo playing will come to a screeching and regretful stop. In order to get the features and functionality of my G27, even if better implemented, will cost more than the game and console.

After the catastrophes experienced at release of the GT6 beta and subsequent weeks waiting on patches to fix, I have no real confidence in PD or Sony releasing GT7 in anything close to polished and ready for use in the fashion I am currently struggling with. The functionality needed for the league I help run is just not there, and what is functional seems to break at the worst possible times.

It would be good if the PD/Sony/Logitech relationship could be repaired so the consumer would have at least the option of doing business with a company they trust and have a certain history with.

 

[F1Racer68]

The problem is that while Logitech continues to produce and sell the G27 wheel, they have already clearly and publically announced that they are no longer producing nor supporting devices for the console gaming market. In fact I just saw brand new G27s on a store shelf this weekend in updated packaging. It now clearly states "For PC", and no longer even makes reference to PS3.

As much as I hate to say it, my options are clear. I have the option of spending huge dollars on a new wheel, new console and new game, or upgrade my PC and switch to a new game leaving the world of GT in the rearview mirror. While the PC option is cheaper, it does mean that I would no longer be racing with many of the great people I have met along the way.

Decisions, decisions........

 

[Geoff]

i'm sorry...i won't buy any brand new wheel to play GT6! no 🤬 way!

logitech wheels must be some of the most used device for GT, along with DFPs and DFGTs
if this is really the case, i would find it very bad news to find that our beloved wheels are carefully planned to be useless earlier than expected just to make more cash.

PD might loose a lot of customers with that, for what's left of it...

i don't discover how things goes; i just used to have hopes that PD was...different

 

[V8-Johnboy]

@Sureboss ^

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Since the PS4 is not going to support Logitech, I was hoping that I will end my gaming "career" on a good note with GT6. But nope, PD decides to ruin that as well. I'm not going to buy a new wheel because my current one is working perfectly fine. I'm hoping somewhere along the line we will see an option to use the old feedback model again. If not then that will be a very regrettable decision by PD. They have no reason to drop support of Logitechs on the PS3 except to encourage more people to buy Thrustmasters. The gaming industry is officially ruined and has now become a thinly veiled ripoff scheme. It's pretty sad really.

 

[SmellyWallrus]

Fully agree with wahwah.

All us Logitech users are being shafted.

Shame on you PD, this will back fire when most of the Logitech guys quit the game. PD was hanging by a thread in my eyes, releasing half finished games, poor content, poor seasonals, yet keeping us hanging on with the promise of empty updates.

This is the straw that broke the camels back, no ****ing way am I buying an over priced 500rs, my G27 is in great shape. Is this PD's way of having a dig at Logitech?

GT7 no chance. PD will have to fix its ways very quickly to keep me interested.

 

[NABeast]

I don't think this is a conspiracy against logitech. I think PD is just trying to give us options for better FB,yes it may be slightly biased towards thrustmaster. Is the debate still out about pre or post hot fix? Or is everyone with a logitech unhappy since 1.12? Or personal preference.

 

[Gr8_Lakes]

I don't think this is a conspiracy against logitech. I think PD is just trying to give us options for better FB,yes it may be slightly biased towards thrustmaster. Is the debate still out about pre or post hot fix? Or is everyone with a logitech unhappy since 1.12? Or personal preference.

As far as a conspiracy against Logitech, I don't see how that would be advantageous to any company.

But, I have considered how I would seriously reconsider purchasing a new console, and wheel, just to play one game. That's a large investment in one stroke. Especially when there is a PC option.

However, if a G27 wheel is "muted" or dulled down in the current GT6 game, perhaps it will drive customers to buy a Thrustmaster wheel now. This would ultimately lessen the financial impact of purchasing a game console (PS4) in the future when GT7 is exclusively launched.

Not saying this is a PD business strategy, but it crossed my mind.

 

[NABeast]

Well I can't argue that idea,it's definetly plausible. I still think PD is trying to improve the FFB options,but maybe the way it's programmed into the game. It can't tell if it's a logitech or thrustmaster it the feedback profile. They need seperate feedback profiles for seperate wheels. They need one for stronger wheels and one for weaker wheels. Who knows,maybe they will listen to the fans and change it back,or give the user an option to change it. Part of me still thinks that when/if GT7 releases on PS4 that the logitech wheels will work. Time will tell on that though.

 

[Gr8_Lakes]

You know what, well said. 👍

 

[Robbks]

OK, here's my thoughts as a DFGT user.

I've been very happy with the extra options in 1.12 and the weight of the wheel since the hotfix.
Except for driving the Lotus 97T last night in order to gain gold in the Brands Hatch event.

The wheel is extremely light, even with FFT=10

SO definitely an issue on "some" cars

 

[wahwah]

The implementation of an option button within the game, to either return to pre 1.12 FFB settings, or plough ahead with the current 'improvements,' would be a sure sign that I'm just a little paranoid of corporations and that I may need to adjust my tin foil hat. That would be the best outcome for all concerned, because existing G27 customers could continue with their current setups and enjoy the previous gen console and game for years to come, with due respect given to their outlay on console, game and peripherals. However, from my perspective, the evidence seems to be stacking up. Exhibit A, the announcement that Logitech has abandoned the console peripheral market. Exhibit B, the Playstation logo in the middle of the T300RS. Exhibit C, the PS3/PS4 selector switch on the T300, along with confirmation of compatibility with all upcoming new gen titles, which shall remain nameless out of respect for our host.

It is apparent that there exists a menage a trios between Sony, PD and Thrustmaster. I don't think that's a surprise to anyone, since the T500 was advertised as the official wheel of GT5. If Logitech were still in the console gaming peripheral business, it may be a completely different story, and in that hypothetical paradigm we would be seeing the implementation of aforementioned option switch in GT6. Instead, we see the emergence of a new wheel from Thrustmaster that responds perfectly to the 1.12 update FFB settings, and in the same update, full control implementation of said new wheel.

In my case, I'm typing this on a Mac, so the option of switching over to PC gaming, as tempting as it may be, would be at least double the outlay of a T300RS. I had the good fortune of receiving a PS4 as a gift shortly after its release, so for me, it's a no brainer. A year later, there will be something to actually enjoy playing on it. All indications would suggest that the G27 will not be the wheel I'll be using, because Logitech have removed themselves from the playing field. That's why the T300 was the obvious choice for me. If I can get an entire console generation worth of fun out of it, it will have been worth it, but clearly this is not the same scenario for everyone, and there will be many who will take this fork in the road as a regrettable sign to leave the hobby behind. Bring on that option switch, PD, so I can adjust the radar on my tin foil hat.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I decided to confront the inevitable and buy a Thrustmaster T300RS, after only a year of having a G27. The 1.12 update was the tipping factor that made me decide to go ahead and spend more on this great little hobby. In my opinion, this is the wheel around which these changes are planned and executed. At moderate settings (5/5) the result is a fluid, tactile experience with the road and the tires' reaction to cornering. In a moment, it all made perfect sense. I think our G27s are being put out to pasture, orphaned by their manufacturer who has exited the scene, stage left. Without their support, there is nobody to apply pressure to the console manufacturer nor game developer to ensure that we have a satisfactory experience with their product. I'm assuming a lot, and I make no claim to be right, but in my opinion it would be unlikely that we will see a fix for this problem for G27 owners. I hope I am wrong, because this would be a very poor scenario for the majority who cannot or will not justify the expenditure on a new wheel, an expensive wheel at that, coupled with a set of poorly matched toy pedals. However, logic and intuition are screaming that this is what's going on. A form of planned obsolescence. It wouldn't be the first time in corporate history, nor would it be the last. I don't think it's by accident that the 1.12 update coincides with the recognition of the T300 in GT6.

For the moment, I am tied to this very average pedal set while I await my Ricmotech adapter, which will enable me to at least use my modded set of G27 pedals and avoid spending any more to keep driving on the previous and new gen console. As a replacement for a G27, the T300 wheel is certainly an upgrade and to some degree, future proof, at least on the horizon from where we currently stand. It comes, however, at a premium, one which many players will refuse to accept, and understandably so. I hope to be proven wrong by a near future hotfix aimed at appeasing G27 owners, but I wouldn't want to be holding my breath.

That was my first thought when the update dropped and the complaints started to flow about the Logitech wheels. They're setting it up for us to hate the Logitech wheels thinking we'll just chalk it up to obsolescence and blindly go out and buy a new Thrustmaster wheel Good call:tup:👍 Next thing will be a press release or facebook announcement saying,

Sorry mates, we're planning for the future and the new protocols we're using to give you guys the best, most accurate FFB in the history of the world but the really old, creaky, obsolete Logitech wheels just can't keep up. We're trying really hard because we have the greatest fans ever but we just can't get it to work...you know...because the wheels are so old and stuff.

Here's a link to the Thrustmaster Website by the way....

I've been thinking about the T300 myself and glad to hear you liked it. I was going to look for an adaptor for the G27 pedals and shifter for it. I just checked the Ricmotech Website and couldn't find the adaptor for the pedals. Do you have a link for it and is there one for the shifter?

EDIT: I found it... http://www.ricmotech.com/product_p/rmt-t500w2g27p.htm

 

[wahwah]

Yes Jp, that's the one. I haven't found anything for the shifter, but then I haven't looked extensively. Obviously the T300 is setup to receive the TH8A shifter, so I would imagine an adapter for the G27 shifter might be a more complex issue than the pedal adapter. Let's hope one of these clever engineers comes up with something so we can at least get some more use from our remaining G27 parts.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

That was my first thought when the update dropped and the complaints started to flow about the Logitech wheels. They're setting it up for us to hate the Logitech wheels thinking we'll just chalk it up to obsolescence and blindly go out and buy a new Thrustmaster wheel

I've been thinking about the T300 myself and glad to hear you liked it. I was going to look for an adaptor for the G27 pedals and shifter for it. I just checked the Ricmotech Website and couldn't find the adaptor for the pedals. Do you have a link for it and is there one for the shifter?

EDIT: I found it... http://www.ricmotech.com/product_p/rmt-t500w2g27p.htm

This is probably the route that I will take for the time being. Buy the T300 wheel and this adapter so that I can use my existing G27 pedals. This will be a lot easier for me because I have a custom built rig with my pedals inverted and hard-mounted. Changing pedals would be a pain for me as opposed to just changing the steering wheel which is only about a half hour job at most. Nothing wrong with my G27 wheel and I have no complaints as far as the hotfix goes, I just feel like its time to upgrade my wheel.

 

[BrandonW77]

Slight change to FFB = conspiracy to get us to buy all new wheels?

(I suppose this means any change to sound profiles = conspiracy to make us buy new stereo, slight change to graphics = conspiracy to get us to buy new tv)

 

[Hilts]

If my G27 won't work on a PS4, then it will be goodbye to the GT series for me. I won't buy a PS4 either. It is more cost effective for me to go PC racing and continue to use my G27. I really hate that it has come to this because I have really enjoyed the series. I hope that smarter heads prevail and it won't come to this.

 

[gt362gamer]

Slight change to FFB = conspiracy to get us to buy all new wheels?

View attachment 232096

(I suppose this means any change to sound profiles = conspiracy to make us buy new stereo, slight change to graphics = conspiracy to get us to buy new tv)

Sorry but your reply is just ridiculous. I have a g27 and now is useless because i have no money for improve my pc and buy pc sims, or buy ps4 and new wheel, so now I have no options to play a sim game online, because gt5 servers are down and gt6 force feedback has been changed and now is useless to have a logitech wheel. Sorry but i just wasted 250 bucks, so maybe you will understand our rage.

 

[BrandonW77]

Sorry but your reply is just ridiculous. I have a g27 and now is useless because i have no money for improve my pc and buy pc sims, or buy ps4 and new wheel, so now I have no options to play a sim game online, because gt5 servers are down and gt6 force feedback has been changed and now is useless to have a logitech wheel. Sorry but i just wasted 250 bucks, so maybe you will understand our rage.

I think you're confusing the term "useless" with "doesn't suit my current taste". So far as I can tell the G27 still functions properly, just with a slightly different feeling. Had you never used the G27 before the 1.12 update/hotfix I wonder if you'd still find it useless, or if you're just claiming it to be useless because you don't like the change? My Fanatec emulates the G27 profile and while it is different than pre 1.12 and the default setting was not good, I was able to get it adjusted (using the GT6 controls) to be very similar to how it was before and I actually prefer its new feeling to the pre 1.12 feeling.

Suggesting a game developer is somehow promoting one product over another (neither of which they have any financial interest or ownership in), now that's a bit ridiculous. I'm of the thinking that said game company would want as many people purchasing/playing their game as possible, regardless of what hardware the customer uses. So doing something that alienates a very large base of those customers is even more ridiculous. But then, I'm just a shill for Big Game and thus part of the conspiracy.

 

[Geoff]

well, it's not like if PD already alienated some loyal customers with missing content, no shuffle racing and so on.

 

[gt362gamer]

I think you're confusing the term "useless" with "doesn't suit my current taste". So far as I can tell the G27 still functions properly, just with a slightly different feeling. Had you never used the G27 before the 1.12 update/hotfix I wonder if you'd still find it useless, or if you're just claiming it to be useless because you don't like the change? My Fanatec emulates the G27 profile and while it is different than pre 1.12 and the default setting was not good, I was able to get it adjusted (using the GT6 controls) to be very similar to how it was before and I actually prefer its new feeling to the pre 1.12 feeling.

Suggesting a game developer is somehow promoting one product over another (neither of which they have any financial interest or ownership in), now that's a bit ridiculous. I'm of the thinking that said game company would want as many people purchasing/playing their game as possible, regardless of what hardware the customer uses. So doing something that alienates a very large base of those customers is even more ridiculous. But then, I'm just a shill for Big Game and thus part of the conspiracy.

Emm, no.

G27 is useless now, because it dont even feel like driving a car now. Its like sliding on ice with no tire resistance in the road.

 

[DSUjoeDirte9]

I kinda like the new FFB feel. (DFGT) At first i thought it was really weak, but then after a while i remembered pre-1.12 it was really weak too. And I can feel a lot more with the new settings and like it much more. Plus i can actually drift now.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I think you're confusing the term "useless" with "doesn't suit my current taste". So far as I can tell the G27 still functions properly, just with a slightly different feeling. Had you never used the G27 before the 1.12 update/hotfix I wonder if you'd still find it useless, or if you're just claiming it to be useless because you don't like the change? My Fanatec emulates the G27 profile and while it is different than pre 1.12 and the default setting was not good, I was able to get it adjusted (using the GT6 controls) to be very similar to how it was before and I actually prefer its new feeling to the pre 1.12 feeling.

Suggesting a game developer is somehow promoting one product over another (neither of which they have any financial interest or ownership in), now that's a bit ridiculous. I'm of the thinking that said game company would want as many people purchasing/playing their game as possible, regardless of what hardware the customer uses. So doing something that alienates a very large base of those customers is even more ridiculous. But then, I'm just a shill for Big Game and thus part of the conspiracy.

I don't know how good your Fanatec can emulate the G27, but try driving the Lotus 97T or Formula GT and tell me that is how driving a real car is supposed to feel. Fact is, most cars are fine (a bit weaker, but I can work with it), but some cars are clearly broken and there is zero resistance. It's not about taste. The new FFB model just don't work with some cars on Logitech. Period.

PD are probably not outright alienating Logitech users per se, but it's just the tiniest nudge to get you to upgrade to Thrustmaster. There is no reason why they could not have 2 separate feedback profiles in the game (hell even grid Autosport has a profile each for Logitech and Fanatec). I am hoping it will be implemented in a future update. Otherwise it's goodbye GT. I'm not happy to leave considering I've been with the franchise since 1997, but if they continue to screw loyal customers then count me out.

 

[Stotty]

Nothing wrong with my G27 wheel and I have no complaints as far as the hotfix goes, I just feel like its time to upgrade my wheel.

I don't think a Thrustmaster (300 or 500) is an upgrade on the G27, Mitch.

Those I know who have made the change didn't get any faster... 2 of them switched back to G series wheels.

Personally, I don't think there anything wrong with the FF in GT6, and a TM is just a heap more cash for no performance improvement IMO.

 

[Augdogg21]

It's been a week of gameplay for me with the new configurations and I can honestly say that there is not much of a difference for me. I dont rely much on the FFB being strong, but mild. My driving compensates for the changes automatically and I tweak adjustments when needed. Like many I've been playing GT since the beginning and time an time again they excelled past every other race simulation game in my opinion. There is no reason for me to doubt the programmers nor their knowledge as this is PDs craft. I am grateful for all the efforts and still hands down believe this is the greatest racing game of all time.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I don't think a Thrustmaster (300 or 500) is an upgrade on the G27, Mitch.

Those I know who have made the change didn't get any faster... 2 of them switched back to G series wheels.

Personally, I don't think there anything wrong with the FF in GT6, and a TM is just a heap more cash for no performance improvement IMO.

Well, I hadn't planned on a new wheel making me any faster , that part is really up to me. Most of the reviews I've read though and comments from other people would indicate that the Thrustmaster, and I'm only talking about the wheel itself, not the cheap ass pedals that come with it, is indeed a better wheel than the G27. Plus, I'm not sure how much longer my G27 will hold out as I've been on it pretty heavily since about 6 months after the release of GT5. Its still going strong as I've indicated, but I just don't want to be left without a wheel if something does happen. At any rate, guess I'll do some more reading before making my final decision. Thanks for your input.

 

[BrandonW77]

I don't know how good your Fanatec can emulate the G27, but try driving the Lotus 97T or Formula GT and tell me that is how driving a real car is supposed to feel. Fact is, most cars are fine (a bit weaker, but I can work with it), but some cars are clearly broken and there is zero resistance. It's not about taste. The new FFB model just don't work with some cars on Logitech. Period.

PD are probably not outright alienating Logitech users per se, but it's just the tiniest nudge to get you to upgrade to Thrustmaster. There is no reason why they could not have 2 separate feedback profiles in the game (hell even grid Autosport has a profile each for Logitech and Fanatec). I am hoping it will be implemented in a future update. Otherwise it's goodbye GT. I'm not happy to leave considering I've been with the franchise since 1997, but if they continue to screw loyal customers then count me out.

I had a G27 before the Fanatec, they feel/react exactly the same. I've never driven a Lotus 97T or a FGT in real life so I can't say what they're supposed to feel like on a simulated gaming wheel. They already addressed the FFB once, there's no reason to think there won't be (or will be) a further tweak to it in the next patch. Anyone who has been with this franchise over the last 4 years or more should be used to this kind of stuff from PD, and don't expect it to change for GT7.

 

[Fanapryde]

I don't think a Thrustmaster (300 or 500) is an upgrade on the G27, Mitch.

Those I know who have made the change didn't get any faster...

Changing a wheel in a real car won't make you faster either.

Thing is: the TM is made for GT and has all the buttons on the right places. That was not the case for the G27 I owned before.
The only "downside" for me is the rubbery substance as opposed to the leather of the G27. The leather on the other hand may wear faster...

I wonder why TM is selling these simple pedal sets with the TM300, while they have the very good T500 pedals, which seem to be compatible...

 

[wahwah]

Changing a wheel in a real car won't make you faster either.

Thing is: the TM is made for GT and has all the buttons on the right places. That was not the case for the G27 I owned before.
The only "downside" for me is the rubbery substance as opposed to the leather of the G27. The leather on the other hand may wear faster...

I wonder why TM is selling these simple pedal sets with the TM300, while they have the very good T500 pedals, which seem to be compatible...

I have to agree, I prefer the leather feel of the G27 too. But that's about where it ends, apart from value for money, in the pros column for the G27 wheel over the T300, IMO. The pedal debacle is a mystery to me too, especially when Thrustmaster have their new T3PA set, which you would think would be a perfect match to the T300.

I can't agree with whoever it was in this thread who described the difference in the 1.12 update on a G27 as 'slight.' To me, and apparently many other G27 owners, that seems like an understatement. My experience was more like one day the FFB worked, the next day, it really didn't. The only appropriate use of the word 'slight' would be to say that there is currently a 'slight' amount of FFB in the G27 on GT6, post update.

Of course PD have a deal with Thrustmaster. They cross promote on each other's presentations. http://www.gran-turismo.com/au/products/gt6/t300rs/ And of course Thrustmaster have a deal with Sony, the Playstation logo is right there in the middle of the T300RS wheel. Obviously Sony have a deal with PD. None of them have a deal with Logitech. Do any of them care if more G27s get sold, at the point where the manufacturer has abandoned that side of the business and will not be supported on the next generation console?

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I had a G27 before the Fanatec, they feel/react exactly the same. I've never driven a Lotus 97T or a FGT in real life so I can't say what they're supposed to feel like on a simulated gaming wheel. They already addressed the FFB once, there's no reason to think there won't be (or will be) a further tweak to it in the next patch. Anyone who has been with this franchise over the last 4 years or more should be used to this kind of stuff from PD, and don't expect it to change for GT7.

Common sense and logic would indicate that a Formula car with no power steering, slicks and high downforce would have super heavy steering. You don't need to drive one to know. In any case, before 1.12 came along these cars are totally fine. But after 1.12 they have lost all feedback. Other cars still have feedback (albeit lighter, but it's fine), so the problem points to these individual cars instead of the feedback model. That's what I and other Logitech users want fixed. I agree that we'll probably see more tweaks to the FFB, but it remains to be seen if the issue with Logitech will be addressed.

I don't even care if the PS4 doesn't support Logitech anymore. I've decided I won't buy it. But this is PS3 and Logitech wheels are supposed to be supported. Even within the GT6 game itself there are separate button mappings for all Logitech wheels. I'm happy that they've improved the FFB to take advantage of TM's more advanced wheels, but I'm NOT happy that they have to compromise Logitech users for that when support for both CAN co-exist. That's my main beef with the latest update.