Lamborghini Asterion Concept

[McLaren]

If they go SUV, it competion would be the Supercharged Range Rover or the soon to be Bentley SUV (EXP9?). Bmw, porsche, audi and land rovers evoque have got the mid ranged market done. Top range has been owned by the RR for ages and with the new lighter, more technical and greener one, owns it again.

Unless price bracket is different in the UK, a RR Supercharged here still falls well under $100,000 unless you opt. for the Autobiography edition. Only the LWB tips just over $100,000, the Autobiography at $143,000. A Bentley competitor, but far from the Urus.

 

[Youngun]

Unless price bracket is different in the UK, a RR Supercharged here still falls well under $100,000 unless you opt. for the Autobiography edition. Only the LWB tips just over $100,000, the Autobiography at $143,000. A Bentley competitor, but far from the Urus.

Well the overfinch with the bells and whistles is around £130k, autobiography is £120k and the 5.0 v8 Supercharged is £110k. The cheap 3.0 Tdv6 Vogue is £80k, not sure on exchange rates but i thought the Vogue would be over $100k (all that included showroom tax)

 

[McLaren]

The Evoque is $40-45K here as it falls under the LR4.

I want Lambo to bring back the Estoque.

Audi wants a SUV, so that's what the Urus will fill. Winkelmann however, is still partial to a 4-door. The car was shelved (not canned fortunately), so it will need a small update, but it's not gone forever.

http://www.motoring.com.au/news/lar...lamborghini-estoque-four-door-to-return-42036

It's been no secret that Lamborghini has been developing a high-performance SUV to rival the likes of the Porsche Cayenne and BMW X6 M, previewed in the form of the Urus at the 2012 Beijing motor show.

Widely expected to be ready by 2017, Lamborghini is still yet to officially confirm the Urus SUV for production.

In a recent chat to motoring.com.au the night before the new Huracan super car's official unveiling at the 2014 Geneva motor show, Lamborghini CEO Stephan Winkelmann wouldn't confirm the SUV was still on track.

"We're working on a third model. It's years down the road," he said.

Winkelmann said a vehicle smaller than the Huracan, which replaces the best-selling Lamborghini of all time, the Gallardo, is "possible but it's not planned".

He stated that for "a third model we certainly would not go and do a smaller car".

When the topic turns to a four-door super car with ample room for four adults, Winkelmannn perks up.

"If you ask me, if somebody would say 'make a wish' I would go to a four-door car."

That Winkelmann personally prefers the idea of a Porsche Panamera or Aston Martin Rapide-like vehicle to an SUV is reflective of many Lamborghini traditionalists, but if parent company Audi demands an SUV, that's certainly what it will get.

Lamborghini unveiled the four-door Estoque super car (pictured) at the 2008 Paris motor show but shelved plans for production because of the global financial crisis that year.

But with expected record sales in 2014 thanks to the new Huracan, which already has a record 1000 orders before it's even released, the company will be flush with cash to spend as it sees fit.

Whichever car Lamborghini decides to deploy in two or three year's time, becoming the third vehicle after the Aventador and Huracan, it's almost certain to mark the debut of a non naturally-aspirated engine for the purist brand.

"It's clear that CO2 regulations are catching up with us," said Winkelmann. "I think there's still a huge opportunity in naturally aspirated engines, and we're betting on those. But down the road, there might be an opportunity for all the other possibilities. You've seen what other brands are doing," he conceded.

"Turbocharging could be an opportunity in years to come," added the Lambo chief.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

The Evoque is $40-45K here as it falls under the LR4.

Vogue is a trim level for the Range Rover, you may not have it.

 

[Alex.]

That would be a Porsche-Lamborghini family feud.

I also don't think Lamborghini knows how to make a car that can compete with the others.

Stephan Winkelmann recently stated in an interview that the Aventador itself has no competitors, only the Gallardo. They don't build cars to compete with anyone though, they're Lamborghini and they do what they want, which is why we like them so much.

 

[McLaren]

Vogue is a trim level for the Range Rover, you may not have it.

Ah, I see. I thought it was a typo.

Comparing trim levels/options isn't an applicable comparison at this time or any other, really. It's hard to say what options a Urus will have, & it puts the Porsche as the direct competitor when you buy all the silly options on it. MSRP v MSRP is what I'm going by.

 

[Youngun]

Ah, I see. I thought it was a typo.

Comparing trim levels/options isn't an applicable comparison at this time or any other, really. It's hard to say what options a Urus will have, & it puts the Porsche as the direct competitor when you buy all the silly options on it. MSRP v MSRP is what I'm going by.

Well, the Cayenne Turbo S here is 20k cheaper than the top Landy but is the closest competitor to the normal RR SC V8. X5 M sport and Q7 4.2 tdi are at the £60k mark with the stupid q7 v12 closer to the £100k mark, and Mercedes only real competitor is the GL63 at £90k

 

[McLaren]

Explain where it is you're getting your figures from. A Cayenne Turbo S starts at £107,784. The top-of-the-line Range Rover LWB Auto. starts at £102,120. A ML63 starts at £84,125 & the G63 at £123,975. The X6 M (because the X5 isn't available anymore) is £86,680 & Audi Q7 Sport 4.2 starts at £64,100 (the V12 is not in production anymore). The Urus is expected to start at £135,000.

Besides the Urus which is from a 2 year old source, (more around £120,300 if the US pricing is correct), these are all from the manufacturers. I'm not getting into a game of adding options & varying trim levels because there's too many and there's no info on the Urus. MSRP v. MSRP, G63 AMG is the closest starting competitor.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

"Rich" is a vague, undefinable term. But if the rich aren't buying lots of SUVs, then why did Jaguar Land Rover have to double the size of their aluminium body shop because demand was twice what they estimated? They're making thousands of Range Rovers a week. Someone's buying them, and I certainly can't afford a £70,000 SUV. Tehy said themselves that the Chinese love their cars.

Once again read what people say, I can't stress that enough to you comparing a vehicle that is less than a 100K usd and easily accessible by the Upper middle class to one that is entry level 200k doesn't show proof of the rich buying up. It more likely shows the buying power of the middle/upper middle to the high class and the cut off which could be argued is the Turbo S at this point in time. Not really seeing how you can use the much larger market the Rover sells in to a car twice the price.

If it was as I said earlier I'd probably be more inclined to believe it would, but at the numbers they seem to want or see potential in and at that price I just don't see it. If it happens let me know.

It's not an image thing, it's a legal thing. Like how Aston Martin built the Cygnet. It made them look bad, but helped them out with the EU and their emissions regs. An SUV is in a different class than a supercar, and has lower standards for emissions and economy.

Yeah I know how that stuff works thanks, but from the verbiage you used it seemed you were talking more about their hybrid system hence why I replied the way I did.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

@LMSCorvetteGT2 We're going round in circles here. You're not understanding what I'm trying to say, and I'm doing a terrible job of saying it. How about we wait until the Urus comes out and we'll see if it sells.

 

[Youngun]

Explain where it is you're getting your figures from. A Cayenne Turbo S starts at £107,784. The top-of-the-line Range Rover LWB Auto. starts at £102,120. A ML63 starts at £84,125 & the G63 at £123,975. The X6 M (because the X5 isn't available anymore) is £86,680 & Audi Q7 Sport 4.2 starts at £64,100 (the V12 is not in production anymore). The Urus is expected to start at £135,000.

Besides the Urus which is from a 2 year old source, (more around £120,300 if the US pricing is correct), these are all from the manufacturers. I'm not getting into a game of adding options & varying trim levels because there's too many and there's no info on the Urus. MSRP v. MSRP, G63 AMG is the closest starting competitor.

Never included the X6 as it suxs alround so through in a '13 x5m with a couple thousand miles on it, same with the Q7 v12 (see Top Gear episode comparing them all) Most of there prices are off there sites and dealers, including the GL63 from 90k assuming that the "GL" is higher model than the "G", as the G AMG is crazy. ML is the smaller one. Range rovers are correct too with the Autobiography LWB at 100-120k with delivery miles and a few good options and Over finch is the 30k option with custom work all over. Cayenne Turbo S is 110k but 20k to much with its dog ugly looks so devalues like a stone.

Even though im now looking at a range rover 5.0 v8 sport '13 plate with options 4k miles but 30k cheaper than new, thats ridiculous but new one is good.

 

[McLaren]

Never included the X6 as it suxs alround so through in a '13 x5m with a couple thousand miles on it, same with the Q7 v12 (see Top Gear episode comparing them all) Most of there prices are off there sites and dealers, including the GL63 from 90k assuming that the "GL" is higher model than the "G", as the G AMG is crazy. ML is the smaller one. Range rovers are correct too with the Autobiography LWB at 100-120k with delivery miles and a few good options and Over finch is the 30k option with custom work all over. Cayenne Turbo S is 110k but 20k to much with its dog ugly looks so devalues like a stone.

Even though im now looking at a range rover 5.0 v8 sport '13 plate with options 4k miles but 30k cheaper than new, thats ridiculous but new one is good.

The problem I'm immediately reading is this:

1) The BMW X5M & V12-optioned Q7 are not in production anymore. By the time the Urus/Bentley is out, they will become even more used & thus, not comparable.
2) You're comparing optioned cars. I don't care what options are on the cars because you can't compare similar options to the Urus/Bentley b/c they are not available. When we're talking about a Porsche, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Land Rover, & so forth, that's 5-7 different cars to try & come options to & it's going to vary far too much; some come with this, some come with that, some don't come with anything, some come with standard.
3) Do not bring up used cars like the X5 or RR V8. Irrelevant in comparison to the Lamborghini or the Bentley.

My prices are directly from the manufacturers & that's what I'm comparing to the Urus/Bentley because what they start at is the best way of getting an idea of who's the closest competitor in the price bracket. If you want to start talking about a Range Rover covered in $30K in options to match the price of a Urus, remember the APP can turn a $200,000 Urus into a $250,000+ one. There's no point in bringing in the options of these cars for the time being.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

@LMSCorvetteGT2 We're going round in circles here. You're not understanding what I'm trying to say, and I'm doing a terrible job of saying it. How about we wait until the Urus comes out and we'll see if it sells.

Yeah I said that ages ago...glad you finally are on the same page.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Isn't it the Veneno? It's just a prettied up Aventador, I thought.

Yup. Reventon = modded Murcielago. Veneno = modded Aventador

 

[Youngun]

The problem I'm immediately reading is this:

1) The BMW X5M & V12-optioned Q7 are not in production anymore. By the time the Urus/Bentley is out, they will become even more used & thus, not comparable.
2) You're comparing optioned cars. I don't care what options are on the cars because you can't compare similar options to the Urus/Bentley b/c they are not available. When we're talking about a Porsche, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Land Rover, & so forth, that's 5-7 different cars to try & come options to & it's going to vary far too much; some come with this, some come with that, some don't come with anything, some come with standard.
3) Do not bring up used cars like the X5 or RR V8. Irrelevant in comparison to the Lamborghini or the Bentley.

My prices are directly from the manufacturers & that's what I'm comparing to the Urus/Bentley because what they start at is the best way of getting an idea of who's the closest competitor in the price bracket. If you want to start talking about a Range Rover covered in $30K in options to match the price of a Urus, remember the APP can turn a $200,000 Urus into a $250,000+ one. There's no point in bringing in the options of these cars for the time being.

Yeh but theres nothing stopping them bring a new range topper out in that period either. Audi, merceds and Bmw all just brought out new/facelift models of there SUV with x1,3,4,5,6-Q1,3,5,7-M,ML,G,GL so in 1-2 years against the Urus, turbo charged/supercharged model could come out again so is adding them to the comparison so bad. Also some options even out the range, Porsche come with nothing and some of the others come with stuff. X6 M and G63 AMG could replace two then but audi have yet to bring out the fast but useless suv for a few years.

That between 70k and 170k there is a good range and variety there for a supersuv to be at the top? Bring ferrari in to the mix later on too? Already done a shotting-break hatch style 4x4 with the FF.

Again it all depends on the chassis they use, aventador which is a bit wide could push 180k but on a Hurucan chassis could be just over 130k.

 

[McLaren]

Yeh but theres nothing stopping them bring a new range topper out in that period either. Audi, merceds and Bmw all just brought out new/facelift models of there SUV with x1,3,4,5,6-Q1,3,5,7-M,ML,G,GL so in 1-2 years against the Urus, turbo charged/supercharged model could come out again so is adding them to the comparison so bad.

Is Land Rover doing that? Is it planned? Last I checked, no. L405 just released as a MY13. Facelifts don't mean a thing, either & further my point that updates aren't likely to come any time soon.

Also some options even out the range, Porsche come with nothing and some of the others come with stuff. X6 M and G63 AMG could replace two then but audi have yet to bring out the fast but useless suv for a few years.

Options are irrelevant at this point, plain & simple, and you prove why. Comparing the starting prices is the best ways of getting an idea who is going to be a competitor against the Urus/Bentley's price bracket.

That between 70k and 170k there is a good range and variety there for a supersuv to be at the top? Bring ferrari in to the mix later on too? Already done a shotting-break hatch style 4x4 with the FF.

Again it all depends on the chassis they use, aventador which is a bit wide could push 180k but on a Hurucan chassis could be just over 130k.

What on earth are you talking about now? Ferrari have already said NO to a SUV & the next 2 years in Ferrari's production will be the 458's incoming replacement.

Chassis? Lamborghini are not using an Aventador or Huracan chassis on anything else but those cars. Again, what exactly are you trying to convey?

 

[The Stig Farmer]

Bring ferrari in to the mix later on too? Already done a shotting-break hatch style 4x4 with the FF.

I really want to see a Ferrari SUV.

Just to see the fanboys melt in blind rage.

 

[Youngun]

Is Land Rover doing that? Is it planned? Last I checked, no. L405 just released as a MY13. Facelifts don't mean a thing, either & further my point that updates aren't likely to come any time soon.

Options are irrelevant at this point, plain & simple, and you prove why. Comparing the starting prices is the best ways of getting an idea who is going to be a competitor against the Urus/Bentley's price bracket.

What on earth are you talking about now? Ferrari have already said NO to a SUV & the next 2 years in Ferrari's production will be the 458's incoming replacement.

Chassis? Lamborghini are not using an Aventador or Huracan chassis on anything else but those cars. Again, what exactly are you trying to convey?

Just saying but Companies can be predictable from past events but they can also surprise you in strange ways. Im thinking with Lexus FIRST sports car that was the new yard stick, Ferraris first 4wd car that changed peoples perception, lamborghinis 'sleeping' 4 door saloon that people stepped back for.

Ferrari in the SUV camp (especially if Lambo do) could happen, big power SUVs for newest models will happen (not big capacity but turbo'd) and the other range topper no matter the price are still competition. Just look who buys new high priced RRs, sports man and celebs, people who could bye any car.

And what about Aston or Jaguar coming in on the act (maybe using the Landy as a base)

 

[The Stig Farmer]

And what about Aston or Jaguar coming in on the act (maybe using the Landy as a base)

 

[Youngun]

Love you. Ha

Best thing, Astons flag ship could be the 5.0 v12 from the v12 vantage with a G class platform. Jaguar looks good too on that CX17 concept, hope for a engine bigger than the test 2.0 tdi, want that 5l from the XJR

 

[The Stig Farmer]

I really hope they don't make the Lagonda. Front end just doesn't look right. And the back is... interesting.

Maybe...



Maybe they're getting us used to the styling with the Rapide...

Look at the size of that mouth.

💡

[/conspiracytheory]

 

[Youngun]

I really hope they don't make the Lagonda. Front end just doesn't look right. And the back is... interesting.

Maybe...



Maybe they're getting us used to the styling with the Rapide...

Look at the size of that mouth.

💡

[/conspiracytheory]

The design was criticised in 2009 but pushing forward with the car but going a different design. Get the dude behind the DB9 on the case.!

 

[McLaren]

Just saying but Companies can be predictable from past events but they can also surprise you in strange ways. Im thinking with Lexus FIRST sports car that was the new yard stick, Ferraris first 4wd car that changed peoples perception, lamborghinis 'sleeping' 4 door saloon that people stepped back for.

What does this still have to do with bringing up used cars & cars with various options? These aren't just brought out of the blue either.

Ferrari in the SUV camp (especially if Lambo do) could happen, big power SUVs for newest models will happen (not big capacity but turbo'd) and the other range topper no matter the price are still competition. Just look who buys new high priced RRs, sports man and celebs, people who could bye any car.

Ferrari have already said no. The only reason Lamborghini has the Urus is bc of Audi. The article I posted already shows they would have preferred a saloon.

And what about Aston or Jaguar coming in on the act (maybe using the Landy as a base)

Who said anything about these 2? And what does that still have to do with you comparing optioned put Land Rovers & out of production Audis to a Lambo 3 years away?

 

[Youngun]

What does this still have to do with bringing up used cars & cars with various options? These aren't just brought out of the blue either.

Ferrari have already said no. The only reason Lamborghini has the Urus is bc of Audi. The article I posted already shows they would have preferred a saloon.

Who said anything about these 2? And what does that still have to do with you comparing optioned put Land Rovers & out of production Audis to a Lambo 3 years away?

I only brought up options to level the playing field, no good going to a dealer and putting options on a car only to make it more expensive than another with it standard.

Ok so Ferrari in the 4 door, SUV or Hatch is a pipe dream but as he was quoted, "i just point them towards Maserati" ok, so not fast compared to the other list before. Ghilibi is a nice 4 door so ill let Ferrari have there 5 years plan.

Models are never dropped, just in a time frame, in three years all the new Bmws will have the range toppers out, including the i8, 1m, m2, m4 gts, m5 touring, m6 gt, X1m, x3m ,x5m and new x6m will happen so whats wrong with using a rough past gen pricing in a comparison list (reviewers through in past models all the time

 

[MoLiEG]

Estoque or Urus. That's what I want them to do 👍

 

[1Lambofan]

I want to see a proper LaFerrari/P1/918 competitor.

Yes , they definitely need one to compete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[McLaren]

I only brought up options to level the playing field, no good going to a dealer and putting options on a car only to make it more expensive than another with it standard.

That doesn't do the comparison any good because there's too many cars with multiple options & 2 cars that have none revealed.

Comparing the starting price is the only reasonable comparison because that's the minimum you have to pay to get into the cars to start & that's the only price we know for the Urus.

Models are never dropped, just in a time frame, in three years all the new Bmws will have the range toppers out, including the i8, 1m, m2, m4 gts, m5 touring, m6 gt, X1m, x3m ,x5m and new x6m will happen so whats wrong with using a rough past gen pricing in a comparison list (reviewers through in past models all the time

Because it's the past generation .

Those cars will be even older by the time you have a exact pricing information on the Urus & the Bentley. All these current cars are also fresh from face lifts like the Land Rover thus there being no chance at the time being of trying to theorize "what ifs". By the time the Urus is finally ready, this will still be the current gen. of sports SUVs.

Unless you have evidence of these models coming, you don't have a solid argument to stand on with them. It would be like me trying to compare a C7 ZR1 to the Hurcan just because there was a C6 version whilst using the C6 figures to debate it. It's a pointless debate because the C7 is here which nullifies the C6 altogether & there's no confirmation of a ZR1 coming. The best comparison is the C7 Z06 just like the best comparisons to the Urus are the models I listed available right now.

 

[Dhalism]

I don't think Lamborghini's customers care much if their car is "green". Even in hybrid hypercars, the electric motors are there to make the car faster, and in the 918's case, break the Nurburgring record. Not to make it green.

Do you think the public knows? Electric motors seem to be a marketing exercise first and foremost at this point.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Models are never dropped, just in a time frame

You should probably have just stopped there.

 

[JMoney]

Do you think the public knows? Electric motors seem to be a marketing exercise first and foremost at this point.

For regular cars, yes, but not for Lamborghini.