Motor Trend - Best Driver's Car 2011

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paskowitz
Nissan GTR added. I am calling BS on the Z06's time.
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Z06 - 3320 lb - 505-hp/470-lb-ft
GTR - 3894 lb - 530-hp/448-lb-ft

Z06 is lighter (BY FAR!), has more TQ (HP sells cars, TQ wins races), AND has better tires. The GTR is not king of Laguna Seca.

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight, and don't bring a summer tire to a lap time competition. :)
 
Mmmm the sound of that car going around the track brought back some good memories. :)

I respect the Z06, but I'd rather have a GT-R. 👍
 
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R1600Turbo
I respect the Z06, but I'd rather have a GT-R. 👍
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Other way around for me. I'd still maintain that pottering along in traffic, as you would be a lot of the time, a GT-R will feel like a big Micra. The Corvette will feel special more often.
 
Not sure what Leonidae is talking about... we're talking about lap times and what effects lap times. Tires being one of them.

Even though they're low on the list, I'd actually take the BMW or the Cayman R as a daily driver.
 
On tires, yes R compound = advantage, but

Car X + R compund =/= 120% of Car X with summer tires. The change in performance that comes with a change in tires is not linear or universal. As Joey D said on page 2, the tire choice is critical and an important consideration in the design of a car. As it so happens, I'm working with a group designing a car and 100% of the chassis team's effort right now is directed at selecting the tires. They're not even going to bother thinking about the chassis architecture until the tires have been selected.

On the Z06 (my favorite in this test, so it might be fair to call me biased as much as I try not to be), it doesn't really need the R compound to keep up. MT has been doing this test for a while. The original Z06 with its far less grippy tires set a 1:40, which compared pretty well to the 1:39 of the old GT3, and the 1:40's set by the V-8 R8 and original GT-R.
 
Exorcet
On tires, yes R compound = advantage, but

Car X + R compund =/= 120% of Car X with summer tires. The change in performance that comes with a change in tires is not linear or universal. As Joey D said on page 2, the tire choice is critical and an important consideration in the design of a car. As it so happens, I'm working with a group designing a car and 100% of the chassis team's effort right now is directed at selecting the tires. They're not even going to bother thinking about the chassis architecture until the tires have been selected.

On the Z06 (my favorite in this test, so it might be fair to call me biased as much as I try not to be), it doesn't really need the R compound to keep up. MT has been doing this test for a while. The original Z06 with its far less grippy tires set a 1:40, which compared pretty well to the 1:39 of the old GT3, and the 1:40's set by the V-8 R8 and original GT-R.
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Tell me with a straight face that the Z06 is still in first place after you put R-compounds on the Ferrari, LFA, and GTR.
 
Danoff
Tell me with a straight face that the Z06 is still in first place after you put R-compounds on the Ferrari, LFA, and GTR.
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To be honest with you, I don't think the Ferrari even needs R compound to beat the Z06. I fully expected it to be the fastest car, and even though it lost to the Z06 in this particular test [lap time wise], I'm not convinced that the Z06 is actually faster.
 
it's rather convincing in this video though, the track doesn't lean towards any particular car, the simple solution of fat tires/light weight/lots of torque does produce laptimes for the vette. But the 458 should win in tracks that are more traction limited.
 
Hooray, a good old fashioned car fight with excuses flying near and far. The simple fact is, Chevrolet have brought the fastest package you can buy straight off the showroom floor to this event.
 
Paulie
Hooray, a good old fashioned car fight with excuses flying near and far. The simple fact is, Chevrolet have brought the fastest package you can buy straight off the showroom floor to this event.
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Exactly, R Compounds or not, it still won, theres no point in arguing.
 
Paulie
Hooray, a good old fashioned car fight with excuses flying near and far. The simple fact is, Chevrolet have brought the fastest package you can buy straight off the showroom floor to this event.
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...which is irrelevant.

crispychicken49
Exactly, R Compounds or not, it still won, theres no point in arguing.
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I think you miss the point. The point is that for the consumer, this test is not perfectly designed.
 
crispychicken49
Exactly, R Compounds or not, it still won, theres no point in arguing.
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I don't think you understand how much of a difference R Compounds make. Seconds. That is how much. Not to mention the insane confidence they produce. I've driven on them before, and compared to even ultra-summer tires like Star Specs or anything, there isn't a comparison. You put any of those non-R comp cars on R-comps, and the ZO6 won't look nearly as impressive.
 
Leonidae@MFT
Yet, the 'Zilla took every scalp in a drag race. :sly: Without R-compounds.
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AWD launch!

PS... R-comps don't work best when cold.

I thought the 458 would win this one... but the GT-R had the best launch. The 458 did have a bit of MPH at the end though.

(oh wait, never mind... I'm just a troll)
 
Danoff
I think you miss the point. The point is that for the consumer, this test is not perfectly designed.
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I disagree. For one thing, there are probably some people out there who don't want to go researching for a tire to fit their car, and will just stick to the original equipment. R compounds will make the non R cars faster, but they may or may not match the Z06 and may or may not retain their original handling characteristics.

Now of course, you are a consumer not afraid to tinker with the product, but not everyone is going to be, at least I wouldn't think so.

Going with stock equipment is just the simplest way for the testers and consumers. And I don't see what's different between getting your tires changed and adding an aero kit or race tuned ECU to your car, except for maybe time and cost. I'd equate running the 458 on Cup tires to running the Z06 with a supercharger.

Azuremen
I don't think you understand how much of a difference R Compounds make. Seconds. That is how much. Not to mention the insane confidence they produce. I've driven on them before, and compared to even ultra-summer tires like Star Specs or anything, there isn't a comparison. You put any of those non-R comp cars on R-comps, and the ZO6 won't look nearly as impressive.
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That doesn't change the fact that Chevy offered the fastest car though.

And while I'm not aware of test showing R compounds on the summer tire cars, I am aware of the Z06 in slightly different trim keeping step for step with the GT-R on summer tires.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...gt500_2012_nissan_gtr_comparison/viewall.html

Toward bottom of stats.
 
Danoff
I think you miss the point. The point is that for the consumer, this test is not perfectly designed.
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Yes it isn't perfectly designed, but what can we do? They decided to put R Compounds on the car, we can't change that. It still doesn't change the fact that the GTR would still out preform the Z06 massively without them. We all know this.

Azuremen
I don't think you understand how much of a difference R Compounds make. Seconds. That is how much. Not to mention the insane confidence they produce. I've driven on them before, and compared to even ultra-summer tires like Star Specs or anything, there isn't a comparison. You put any of those non-R comp cars on R-comps, and the ZO6 won't look nearly as impressive.
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Exactly, but as I said before, we really can't change it. It was a bad decision on Motortrends part. I was also looking for a good show down of the GTR vs Z06, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.
 
Exorcet
I disagree. For one thing, there are probably some people out there who don't want to go researching for a tire to fit their car, and will just stick to the original equipment. R compounds will make the non R cars faster, but they may or may not match the Z06 and may or may not retain their original handling characteristics.

Now of course, you are a consumer not afraid to tinker with the product, but not everyone is going to be, at least I wouldn't think so.

Going with stock equipment is just the simplest way for the testers and consumers. And I don't see what's different between getting your tires changed and adding an aero kit or race tuned ECU to your car, except for maybe time and cost. I'd equate running the 458 on Cup tires to running the Z06 with a supercharger.
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That's absurd and you know it. Beyond absurd.

I actually don't know a single person who has OEM tires on their car currently. Not one. My 60 year old mother-in-law doesn't have OEM tires. My 80 year old neighbor across the street doesn't have OEM tires. I can't name one single person who has them (I'm realizing I don't know anyone who recently bought a car). It's not that I'm the kind of person who tinkers with their car. EVERYONE replaces their tires.

I also don't know (in person) a single person who has added a supercharger to their car. Not one. Get out of here with that. It's ridiculous.

Edit: Motor Trend was stuck between a rock and a hard place with the tire situation. But I think they should have eliminated R-compounds from the competition.
 
I will add, that I too do not have OEM tires on any of my cars. I've ran OEM tires on a road course, and it was horrible (MINI Cooper S - ContiProContact SSR - All Season). Even on Summer tires... it's kinda blah when you know that R-Comps are available. The difference is night and day.

IMO - the serious car person should have 3 sets of tires. Summer, Winter, and R-Comps for the track! (I do)

R1600Turbo
Aerodynamics?
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Weight?

GT-R = 3894 lb - 530-hp/448-lb-ft
458 = 3440 lb - 557-hp/398-lb-ft
Diff = 454 lb - +27-hp/-50-lb-ft
 
crispychicken49
It still doesn't change the fact that the GTR would still out preform the Z06 massively without them. We all know this.
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I don't. The GT-R doesn't seem to be able to outperform the Z06 except in terms of handling feel (it's easier to drive) and low speed acceleration (off the line grip).

Danoff
EVERYONE replaces their tires.
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That may be true, but that is not the same as actively seeking the maximum track performance tires for their car, which may be more complicated than "buy R compound tire". Changing tires is easier than adding a supercharger, it's true, but it's not something that's guaranteed to make the car 10% better in every category. Putting better tires on your car doesn't mean that your suspension is able to make complete use of them. Brake bias is determined by weight transfer, which is determined by acceleration. Grippier rubber up front will increase the acceleration and the weight transfer, which might cause the rear wheels to get a little slippery.

I'm sure that lap times would improve for all cars if they were given R compounds, but they might not see the same benefit that the Corvette with its purpose built tires saw. The same goes for subjective handling. The Ferrari was described as being nearly perfect. Would it feel that way on Cup tires? Maybe, but it might also feel loose or tight. In subjective terms, the R compounds might have caused some drawbacks. There was certainly something going on with the Audi which understeered horribly despite having R tires. This Audi is a sportier version of the same Audi that won this test two years ago with worse tires. The same could happen with any car.

So yeah, anyone could go and slap R tires on to their 458, but it doesn't mean that the car will feel better than the Corvette, or that it would feel better than the 458 on Super Pilot Sports.

On the other hand, Motortrend could have used summer tires on all the cars and it would have been a perfectly valid test. However, this test was about the best you could get from the factory, and denying a car it's top factory options would only give an unfair advantage to the manufactures who didn't offer better options to the consumer. Why purposely omit the best that the manufacturer can offer?

I do see where you're coming from, and a test that run as you suggest would be interesting to see. I just don't think it's any more valid than this one.
 
I was waiting for a Ferrari GTO 599 or ZR1 to come out of no where on that drag race and show them all. Oh well got to keep it fair, not a comedy sketch.
 

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