Polyphony Digital Inc. (PDI) and FIA to Form Long-term Partnership

[crowhop]

How far FIA certification is going to realistically push the series forward remains to be seen. It may make the game sell more, that's a no-brainer, but in terms of moving forward, innovating and breathing new life into the franchise, it means very little.

Regarding the FIA partnership, you say effects remain to be seen then you say it means very little. Which is it?

 

[commanderr]

On the new pitstop blog they say the online championship will start spring 2015.

 

[Speedster911]

Regarding the FIA partnership, you say effects remain to be seen then you say it means very little. Which is it?

Means little *at the moment* and *long term* effect remains to me seen. In any case, it WILL have a positive effect on the franchise naturally. To what degree, time will tell.

I wouldn't necessarily say other games have better audio.. they're just more saturated.

Hmm.. games like PCARS, FM 4 and 5, Dirt 3.. you wouldn't say the audio is nothing short of phenomenal?

Look, I used to love GT just as much as you love it now. But all the flash the game has, is seriously hurt by a weak and lackluster sound design. Anyway enough about that, devs are going to continue doing what they feel is right for the franchise.

 

[crowhop]

Hmm.. games like PCARS, FM 4 and 5, Dirt 3.. you wouldn't say the audio is nothing short of phenomenal?

Look, I used to love GT just as much as you love it now. But all the flash the game has, is seriously hurt by a weak and lackluster sound design. Anyway enough about that, devs are going to continue doing what they feel is right for the franchise.

Thing is sound and physics aren't the primary negatives of the GT Series for 95% of players.
GT is the introduction to driving and racing, not the fulfillment of it. Things will never, ever, ever be perfect. Especially on a console.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Hmm.. games like PCARS, FM 4 and 5, Dirt 3.. you wouldn't say the audio is nothing short of phenomenal?

No game I've ever heard has come anywhere close to replicating the sound of real race cars in person. GT is not the best of the bunch by quite some way, but to suggest that the other games come close to being phenomenal is simply hyperbole.

 

[Speedster911]

No game I've ever heard has come anywhere close to replicating the sound of real race cars in person. GT is not the best of the bunch by quite some way, but to suggest that the other games come close to being phenomenal is simply hyperbole.

That's a bold statement you've made there mate. What kind of sound system you got and have you played FM4 and 5 at length? Have you heard or driven those cars IRL?

Thing is sound and physics aren't the primary negatives of the GT Series for 95% of players.
GT is the introduction to driving and racing, not the fulfillment of it. Things will never, ever, ever be perfect. Especially on a console.

Ain't that the sad truth? Devs always worried about keeping the masses happy.

 

[HKS racer]

Because that's how real racing works.

Simulating racing means simulating as much as possible. Ultimately, that should include damage, because that's a consequence of reckless driving and/or an aspect of luck that everyone has to deal with. It should also include flags and safety cars, because those are important strategic elements of modern racing.

No one expects all this stuff at once, but the ultimate goal should definitely be to have it in. It is important.

I agree. But I think you also agree with me we can have flag rules and safety car without a FIA logo. That's the mambo jumbo PR he was refering to.

 

[Dionisiy]

Where are you guys getting the pictures?

Sony press-release from e-mail.

 

[crowhop]

No game I've ever heard has come anywhere close to replicating the sound of real race cars in person. GT is not the best of the bunch by quite some way, but to suggest that the other games come close to being phenomenal is simply hyperbole.

I want to know who around here knows exactly what fully tuned "car X" sounds like anyway? Other than the standard line of "I don't like the way it sounds", most of the time no one knows for sure what the car might sound like anyway.

 

[Speedster911]

^^ Youtube vids are never a good indicator.

Actual TV races, yes. Car review videos and shows, yes. Real life experience, absolutely!

Based on the above, the sound design needs an overhaul. It must. I am still puzzled to this day: Mr. Yamauchi has done some good things with the game visually and physics-wise, why is sound getting the short end?

 

[crowhop]

Ain't that the sad truth? Devs always worried about keeping the masses happy.

Umm, yes. That's called business sense. You cater to the 95% and hope to appease the 5% who will never be satisfied or appreciative anyway.

 

[MatskiMonk]

That's a bold statement you've made there mate. What kind of sound system you got and have you played FM4 and 5 at length? Have you heard or driven those cars IRL?

Believe me, the Audio systems I've played, and observed these games on is more than up to the job (one of the many benefits of spending 17 years of my life selling mid - top end HiFi). I've also spent enough time on live pit-lanes, staging areas, paddocks, rally stages and circuit events to know what real cars should sound like.

The first time I heard an F1 V10 at full chat (bridge corner at Silverstone), the first time I heard (and was showered with mud) by Loeb in his rally car passing a few feet in front of me.. the first time I woke up at Santa Pod, rubbed my eyes, and heard a couple of 1000 hp american muscle cars stand on the rear wheels.... well, I'm not ashamed to admit I had a tear in my eye, and a lump in my throat --- games do not convey this.

I'm not saying GT is better than the others, I'm saying they all have a long way to go.

 

[Lawndart]

Polyphony Digital Inc. (PDI) and FIA to Form Long-term Partnership

The Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) and the creators of the highly-acclaimed Gran Turismo® series, Polyphony Digital Inc. (PDI), today announced exciting plans for a long-term innovative partnership. The FIA’s role as the governing body of motor sport worldwide, and the representative of almost 80 million road and track users from 141 countries on five continents, will help grow the direct relationship between the millions of fans of Gran Turismo and the real-world of motor sport.

To mark the start of this collaboration, Gran Turismo®6 will become the first-ever video game to feature FIA-certified content. Gran Turismo 6 for PlayStation®3, which launched late last year, has been granted an FIA certification for four of the game’s world-famous tracks. The virtual circuits in Gran Turismo have been recreated in intricate detail. The track inspection for each was conducted by FIA officials who visited PDI’s development studio in Tokyo, where Gran Turismo 6 track models were accurately compared to FIA standards. Other tracks included in Gran Turismo 6 will be subject to inspection in order to obtain certification by the FIA in the near future.

As a second key element of the partnership, FIA & PDI plan to launch an official FIA Online Championship in 2015 with the intention of offering the large number of Gran Turismo players and motor sport fans the opportunity to engage with real motor sport.

Jean Todt, President of the FIA said: “This innovative new partnership will ensure that millions of Gran Turismo and motor sport fans can race on even more detailed tracks at home. The Gran Turismo series has played an important role in helping to attract a new fan base to motor sport. With the input of FIA in the development of the upcoming FIA Online Championship, Gran Turismo 6 will now offer an experience even closer to the real world of motor sport. We are also excited to be working closely with Polyphony Digital and Sony Computer Entertainment in the future to find new ways to continue to make motor sport more accessible to millions of fans that share a passion for racing.”

Kazunori Yamauchi, President of Polyphony Digital Inc. and creator of the Gran Turismo franchise, explains: “We are incredibly proud for Gran Turismo to be officially certified by the governing body of world motorsport. In the 15 years of Gran Turismo, this has to be the biggest accolade we have ever received. I believe this will be a major step forward for our mission to connect the virtual and real racing worlds in full circle, thereby expanding the population of car and motorsport enthusiasts in the world."

Jacques Berger, Head of Safety at the FIA said: “It was not until we completed the tests between our track data and the game’s track data that we fully appreciated the level of work and attention to detail that goes into the development of Gran Turismo 6. It was not just the tracks that have been precisely mapped out, but also the surrounding landscapes such as the run-off areas, grandstands and buildings.”

http://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/news/00_1153498.html

The track inspection for each was conducted by FIA officials who visited PDI’s development studio of in Tokyo, where Gran Turismo 6 track models were accurately compared to FIA standards.

Wow... My interest just went up 200%, the first full series licence in GT's history... I'm also an FIA member.

 

[Speedster911]

Believe me, the Audio systems I've played, and observed these games on is more than up to the job (one of the many benefits of spending 17 years of my life selling mid - top end HiFi). I've also spent enough time on live pit-lanes, staging areas, paddocks, rally stages and circuit events to know what real cars should sound like.

The first time I heard an F1 V10 at full chat (bridge corner at Silverstone), the first time I heard (and was showered with mud) by Loeb in his rally car passing a few feet in front of me.. the first time I woke up at Santa Pod, rubbed my eyes, and heard a couple of 1000 hp american muscle cars stand on the rear wheels.... well, I'm not ashamed to admit I had a tear in my eye, and a lump in my throat --- games do not convey this.

I'm not saying GT is better than the others, I'm saying they all have a long way to go.

They most certainly do. Some of them are taking positive strides though.

However, not to the same degree as visuals or physics. Seems to me sound takes a proverbial backseat most of the time.

Umm, yes. That's called business sense. You cater to the 95% and hope to appease the 5% who will never be satisfied or appreciative anyway.

Not to justify my previous statements or anything, but it has nothing to do with being under appreciative or not satisfied. There is a very stark divide between GT's visuals and audio. Most fans (according to you) it seems, are happily ignoring it or just making do with it. Believe me, there are a handful of GT fans who envy Forza's sounds and have gone to it just to experience the sound design.

Well, this is not a comparison thread, but can you honesly tell me for a moment that the audio design doesn't irk you at all? If not, then you're probably quite happy playing it and enjoying it as a game. It must have accurate audio in order to truly be hailed as the "real driving simulator".

 

[dimassa19]

..... and Keiko Ihara

 

[crowhop]

Well, this is not a comparison thread, but can you honesly tell me for a moment that the audio design doesn't irk you at all? If not, then you're probably quite happy playing it and enjoying it as a game. It must have accurate audio in order to truly be hailed as the "real driving simulator".

Sounds are not even in my Top 5 "complaints" with GT6 (or GT5, for that matter). Sure, I'd like them to be better, but they remain "good enough" to me. When it comes to sounds, I'm actually much more interested in hearing the tire squeal anyway. And I think they've made some really good strides in that area from GT5 v1 to now. I do wish I could eliminate the custom transmission whine, but that is actually quite accurate. If I ever do get a "real" racing setup (wheel/seat rig with devoted TV and sound system) sounds would likely become more important.

I think gameplay issues like AI and the dearth of offline events are much more of an issue for a wider range of GT players.

 

[MatskiMonk]

However, not to the same degree as visuals or physics. Seems to me sound takes a proverbial backseat most of the time.

That's true, I think the approach to sound is fundamentally different.

When they create a 3D wireframe, they are creating an asset from the very basic building blocks. With sounds, they sample, and they loop this sample, with effects applied, to create the finished item. The visual equivalent of this would be to take a photo of the car from different angles, and instead of using a 3D model in the game, just overlay the closest photo to the cars orientation, which would look terrible.

To treat sounds the same way as the visuals, they would need to artificially synthesize the sounds that the major components of the engine and drivetrain make, thereby giving full control of the output sound to the game. I suspect this is pretty hard to do, though ultimately could give a better end result.

.. I've re-read that, and I'm not explaining my point very well, I just can see why they are struggling with the sampling route.

 

[crowhop]

That's true, I think the approach to sound is fundamentally different.

When they create a 3D wireframe, they are creating an asset from the very basic building blocks. With sounds, they sample, and they loop this sample, with effects applied, to create the finished item. The visual equivalent of this would be to take a photo of the car from different angles, and instead of using a 3D model in the game, just overlay the closest photo to the cars orientation, which would look terrible.

To treat sounds the same way as the visuals, they would need to artificially synthesize the sounds that the major components of the engine and drivetrain make, thereby giving full control of the output sound to the game. I suspect this is pretty hard to do, though ultimately could give a better end result.

.. I've re-read that, and I'm not explaining my point very well, I just can see why they are struggling with the sampling route.

From what I know...
If they did the samples "properly", each one would be a 320kbps file associated with each rev increment in each individual condition (idle, loaded, free, etc). It isn't possible to do sounds with the level of detail the models gets.

This seems to be what you're getting at...you explained it pretty well.

 

[stuff1138]

This thread is digressing...what does the FIA have to do with sound modeling and wire frames?

 

[dacc10]

The sounds in GT are bad, that we can't hide, I'm not happy with the sounds like most of us and I think they are a big part of racing games BUT the thing is, what do we really want? Ultra loud and exaggerated sounds or we want the real sounds? Other games have better sounds than GT sure, but not really accurate, in Forza 5 there are accurate sounds but they all have a generic sound, the Aventador for example, sounds nothing like the real car.

I would rather wait for them to get the sounds right and accurate rather than just rush their work on it and give us just loud noise.

 

[gtracedriver1]

Damn, GT6 is getting great support. This is great and bodes well for PS4 too

 

[SCER]

This thread is digressing...what does the FIA have to do with sound modeling and wire frames?

Well the standard of the wire frame modelling of the FIA tracks is probably a contributing factor to the FIA agreeing to the partnership, and some people are speculating that the FIA could press PD to improve their sound modelling.

 

[SavageEvil]

Damn, GT6 is getting great support. This is great and bodes well for PS4 too

If anything I hope to God that FIA works with PD to implement rules at the core of GT7. Online racing would do great if we had rules that reflected real life racing, building and coding that into a game that is a whole other story but lets hope these guys come up with something or another.

 

[stuff1138]

Well the standard of the wire frame modelling of the FIA tracks is probably a contributing factor to the FIA agreeing to the partnership, and some people are speculating that the FIA could press PD to improve their sound modelling.

good show old chap...well played

 

[Speedster911]

The sounds in GT are bad, that we can't hide, I'm not happy with the sounds like most of us and I think they are a big part of racing games BUT the thing is, what do we really want? Ultra loud and exaggerated sounds or we want the real sounds? Other games have better sounds than GT sure, but not really accurate, in Forza 5 there are accurate sounds but they all have a generic sound, the Aventador for example, sounds nothing like the real car.

I would rather wait for them to get the sounds right and accurate rather than just rush their work on it and give us just loud noise.

I'm willing to support this 100%. Worth the wait.

Well the standard of the wire frame modelling of the FIA tracks is probably a contributing factor to the FIA agreeing to the partnership, and some people are speculating that the FIA could press PD to improve their sound modelling.

This sounds promising and could lead to some exciting possibilities in the not too distant future.

 

[Quakebass]

You make it sound like the reason we don't get certain content in Gran Turismo is that the license holders are not sure that Polyphony can do it justice.

I seriously doubt that is the case, in any situation. It's about money and value, like any business.

Gran Turismo was already the most well-known racing game brand in the world, with the possible exception of Need for Speed. The last thing they needed was more credentials, more legitimacy. If license holders didn't think they were worthwhile working with when they were selling 10+ million copies of games, I don't see why having four tracks "certified" by the FIA is going to mean anything to them.

Maybe it's true. Maybe there are license holders out there who were just waiting for a developer to come along who could do such a good job on their track that the FIA would certify the digital work.

If so, give me their numbers. I've got a bridge to sell them.


With my sarcastic hat off, your idea isn't too bad, but any serious business person is not going to be taken in by a flashy sticker saying "FIA". They will evaluate whether the FIA association is worth anything to them, and I fail to see how much value it's going to add over the exposure that a multi-million copy selling game would already.

I wasn't necessarily saying some license holders were/are hesitant, I'm saying they could be more willing to lend their asset(s). Sort of like the early gaming days, when auto manufacturers would want a lump sum of cash in order to allow representations of their assets in a game. Now they more willingly (and cheaply) lend their cars, realizing that appearances in video games are very good advertising/marketing tools for them, creating more revenue in the long run. This is what FIA certification could do for them (emphasis on could). FIA approval would prove that the tracks are well-dome and true to life, therefore an accurate depiction of the venue, and could expose more people to it. Therefore more potential visitors. It'll do something.

 

[Mulan]

PDI and Gran Turismo is significantly more world renowned than T10 and Forza. PDI runs a very successful GTA program which is a key component of this. And PDI models tracks very well. It is a no brainer which company the FIA would want to align with.

From the outsiders perspective, PDI and Yamauchi has taken GT to the pinnacle and beyond.
*The FIA is involved in a video game series now. This is more significant than it is given credit for. Even if it is only a "seal of approval", that's THE greatest seal of approval in International Motorsport.
*The Vision GT features 28 car manufactures building custom cars for GT6 on a "dying" console.
*GTA racers are filling grids on real race days.
*Gran Turismo has a major presence at Goodwood.
*KAZ has a movie.
*Kaz is a big presence at the Pebble Beach Concours.
*GT took over a town for its 15th Anniversary Celebration.

PDI, GT and Kaz are MAJOR players rubbing elbows with the wealthiest and most influential people in international motorsport. There is no close second place in this race.

Frankly, when you're talking about GT's flaws you're speaking from the perspective of the fanatical 5% who wouldn't be satisfied with anything less than absolute perfection anyway. Balance and perspective must be maintained. Who knows where GT will go in the next five years, but this FIA announcement should set them up well for the foreseeable future.

For me it all is marketing, so was the Toyota carinfo gadget for Suzuka all this you mention is for 0.1% of users
(i speculate since i think you do to with the 5%).
But sure you can use it to get millions to buy the game because it appears so real. If nothing else comes from this FIA thing then It is just for selling more games.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Has this been posted ? Looks like there will be 3 tier FIA championship

 

[Spagetti69]

Has this been posted ? Looks like there will be 3 tier FIA championship

Half life 3 confirmed then.

 

[lator-illa]

I think Kaz is looking at the big picture here. Having a partnership with the FIA, along with all the events PDI is involved with, just shows that Kaz is further widening his footprint in the automotive/motorsport world. Having this kind of exposure is ultimately what Kaz or any developer wants. I highly doubt Kaz partnered with the FIA just because he wanted to get his tracks licensed, or he wanted to bring in the latest F1 vehicles.

With that said, having the FIA license gives him that ability to further expand and enhance his product as a result of the partnership. The great thing is, Kaz has acknowledged the faults of the game and has recently mentioned that they're working on fixing it (ie. sounds). Sure he's not focusing all his energy on game development, but only a madman would turn down the opportunity to rub shoulders with the uber Elite of Motorsports.