To Shift or not to Shift

[Speedster911]

Shift 2 is not an arcade game as many say. It's a failed sim. Grid and Grid 2 get much closer to achieving what was attempted.

Do you have Race Pro? Probably won't look too pretty, but should be leaps and bounds ahead in the physics department.

I do have Race Pro. I think the physics are outright brilliant. Unfortunately, I can't get past the grainy and choppy 30 fps visuals. Everything else is good, including the engine sounds.

 

[Speedster911]

Probably the best way of putting it. They try to exaggerate everything to make it feel like real life. And Race Pro is about as close as your gonna get with a sim racing title on the console without going to the pc.

Hmm, exaggerated physics is something I do not like. Dirt 3 was passable, but I do not like how GRID II does physics. FM4 is about the only racing title in my collection NOT collecting dust!

 

[mika haka]

There is a demo for shift 1. Try that and you will see if you like the physics or not. In my opinion if this game had even semi realistic physics it would have been the best racer of last gen. Everything else is really well done but the floaty handling was confusing and annoying. E.A missed an opportunity to steal a big portion of the gt crowd.

Don't want to hijack your thread but why is it publishers think arcade handling sells better? The 2 biggest racing franchises both have realistic handling yet everybody still release's games with arcade handling.

 

[fatkrakr]

There is a demo for shift 1. Try that and you will see if you like the physics or not. In my opinion if this game had even semi realistic physics it would have been the best racer of last gen. Everything else is really well done but the floaty handling was confusing and annoying. E.A missed an opportunity to steal a big portion of the gt crowd.

Don't want to hijack your thread but why is it publishers think arcade handling sells better? The 2 biggest racing franchises both have realistic handling yet everybody still realises games with arcade handling.

Because game makers are not maturing with their audience. The core gamers are aging and wanting more from their games and developers are still trying to appeal to the kids.

 

[Speedster911]

There is a demo for shift 1. Try that and you will see if you like the physics or not. In my opinion if this game had even semi realistic physics it would have been the best racer of last gen. Everything else is really well done but the floaty handling was confusing and annoying. E.A missed an opportunity to steal a big portion of the gt crowd.

Don't want to hijack your thread but why is it publishers think arcade handling sells better? The 2 biggest racing franchises both have realistic handling yet everybody still realises games with arcade handling.

I have played Shift 1. HATED it! It was outrageous. Returned it the next day. No demos for me, ain't got no Xbox Live!

Publishers go with arcade handling because it's cheaper and more straightforward to develop fast-selling easy-to-use pick up and play racing games. And now that marijuana has been legalized, I think we might see more devs appeal to the younger generation and release a boatload of crap, appalling arcade racing games with focus on visual bling, loud and obnoxious sound effects...not to mention an emphasis on oversteer/drifting!!

The 80s and 90s were a different time see... people were more serious about stuff; the scientific, logical types often turned out to be gamers preferring hardcore sims and strategy games. The whole dude-bro mindset at the time hadn't caught on.. and you have real life pro drivers promoting crap like Gymkhana and drifting... so arcade racing games are bound to come along.

 

[Speedster911]

Because game makers are not maturing with their audience. The core gamers are aging and wanting more from their games and developers are still trying to appeal to the kids.

Right you are Sir, right on the money aa'say!

Codemasters and EA are both typical examples that used to engage the core gamers much more. Unfortunately, the line between giving loyal customers what they want/letting a series mature and raking in profits, gets blurred easily.

I don't think I'll be touching another EA or Codemasters product ever, as long as GT and FM are around. Well, not unless due to some magical reason, Dirt goes down the rally sim route!

 

[Silver-Sylph]

I have played Shift 1. HATED it! It was outrageous. Returned it the next day.

Shift 2 is pretty much the same game with new cars and tracks but still the same physics and floaty feeling cars.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

I'm tempted to try Shift 2 again, because of this thread.

 

[Wolfe]

Publishers go with arcade handling because it's cheaper and more straightforward to develop fast-selling easy-to-use pick up and play racing games. And now that marijuana has been legalized, I think we might see more devs appeal to the younger generation and release a boatload of crap, appalling arcade racing games with focus on visual bling, loud and obnoxious sound effects...not to mention an emphasis on oversteer/drifting!!

The 80s and 90s were a different time see... people were more serious about stuff; the scientific, logical types often turned out to be gamers preferring hardcore sims and strategy games. The whole dude-bro mindset at the time hadn't caught on.. and you have real life pro drivers promoting crap like Gymkhana and drifting... so arcade racing games are bound to come along.

There are many more hardcore racing sims today than there were in the 80s and 90s, when games like Out Run, Daytona USA, Ridge Racer, Cruisin' USA, and San Francisco Rush dominated the genre in the arcades from which the modern sub-genre of racing takes its name. These games appealed to the younger generation too (like me at that time), with a focus on flashy visuals, "loud and obnoxious" sound effects, and many times an emphasis on oversteer/drifting.

Even Hard Drivin' -- a racing game so simulation-focused that it featured a clutch pedal and H-shifter, a turn-key "Start" switch you had to use if you killed the engine, and just about the best effort at advanced driving physics in a 3D environment you could expect in 1989 -- depicted a wacky street race with jumps and a freakin' loop-de-loop.

Arcade racing titles aren't the result of some decline in the quality of racing games, or the promotion of anything, or the legalization of a drug. They've always been the default option for a developer, and hardcore sims are only a niche alternative for geeks like us.

To answer @mika haka's question, Gran Turismo is popular because it's not really that hardcore, and it features everyday cars that many people either own or have experienced. It's also more about driving than strict motorsports with rules and flags and seasons, which most people would find tedious. And Forza isn't the second-best-selling franchise; if I recall correctly, Mario Kart and Need for Speed are bigger.

 

[Techy]

The coolest thing about Shift 2 is the immersion. Whenever I enter the main menu I feel like a race car driver who wants close, intense racing. And the gameplay shows that well (the engine notes, apex-aiming POV, etc). The whole introduction with the Nissan GT-R is pretty awkward, considering the fact it's tuned, and a 4WD car at that. The intro also displayed the physics, which was disappointingly the same as Shift 1's physics - it's like you're driving a bathtub on ice. I'm sure you could tune some settings to alleviate the sliding but I don't really expect people who buy Shift 2 to know car settings right off the bat. Sadly I'm one of those people. Sure, anyone can just Google some setups for their favorite cars, which I have done myself. However it didn't eradicate the floating feel for me.
The FFB was odd too. With my G27, I couldn't pinpoint when and where the car's loose. It's been a while since I've played the game but I just could not feel loss of traction.
The car and track selection is one of the best I've seen in a racing game. I don't think there's much out there that features FIA GT cars, which I thought sound great. But the physics just doesn't do it for me. There's an overhaul mod for the PC that alters the tire model. I tested that out myself and it did get rid of the floating behaviors, and it gave each car a bit more character. But it's for PC, and I think you need a good rig to run the game.

I would personally skip it. It isn't very worth learning a lot from the Shift series. Maybe if you found it in a bargain cart but not more than that.

 

[LeMansAid]

Don't want to hijack your thread but why is it publishers think arcade handling sells better? The 2 biggest racing franchises both have realistic handling yet everybody still release's games with arcade handling.

But then it's not even proper arcade handling. It's a different animal again.

I think back to Destruction Derby 2 from the PS1 days and how it actually felt like there was some connection with the road. And of course actual arcade racers, in the arcade. I look forward to trying out Next Car Game from BugBear, as I get the sense that there will some weightiness to the feel. And maybe that's the clue: strong physics should be present in all driving/racing games/sims (arcade included). Maybe games that include things being destroyed (DD2, Rollcage, NCG) and require physics for other structures/objects, have better car related physics simply because physics in general is addressed seriously. Equally, maybe "arcade" titles without that slant can be produced with nary a thought of physics at all.

 

[PepeMickey]

Actually, Shift 2 feels like FM4 on Normal steering just a bit less responsive because of the inferior framerate.

If you really dig into the tuning aspect of the game, you can even recreate Gran Turismo's perpetual understeery physics.

But of course, if you play it for like 10 minutes and never touch it again, chances are you'll never see all of this.

Shift 2 is a great and fun game, it'll reward you if you give it a chance.

 

[Speedster911]

^^ Wellllll, that's news to me!

Based on what you've just revealed, I think I might actually feel compelled to try it out.

Still on the fence about it. But then again, one more title to experiment with and add to my collection ain't a bad deal. Just don't want it to take a backseat and collect dust, that's all.

How would you describe the overall feel of the X360 version, especially the engine/exhaust notes? Floaty and unpredictable according to what I've read up so far, but something that can be tuned and adjusted to make it behave more like actual race/road cars on a track.

What say?

 

[PepeMickey]

Unfortunately, I played the PS3 version which is good news for you because the 360 version can only be better.

The game is playable with the default settings and a gamepad to begin with, cars feel twitchy and light at high speeds but like I said, you can make them behave however you want.

Playing around with the deadzones and sensitivity will make a huge difference and I've heard that the 360 version has less or no input lag whatsoever, which is something you can get rid off if you use Game Mode on your TV and it'll work for all your games, specially shooters.

Like FM4's Normal Steering, cars tend to be stable at low speeds and easy to correct, at high speeds though, they do tend wobble a bit but you can fix that by increasing the Caster angle and reducing the Steering lock which are tuning options available on all cars, you don't need to purchase any parts to adjust this stuff.

Also, for some reason, the tyre pressure is set too high on default for all cars which makes them very tail-happy. Adjusting that alone will make a huge difference.

The game is just so much fun, do I need to mention that you can Works convert a.k.a. Race Mod any car in the game? Wonder how a Alfa 8C race car would look and sound like?

Sounds are definitely not as pristine as FM4, they're raw and in some cases a bit fake but they're incredibly immersive. You not only hear engine and exhaust notes but the whole body of the car just being murdered by the G-forces, you can hear the suspension working, the brakes locking up aside from the tyre screeching that comes with it.

Really, this game is easily the next best thing after Forza and Gran Turismo, it has what the other 2 lack, the thrill of racing, sometimes you might even feel fear as you fly through the Ring in a Koenigsegg CCX.

The AI is mad like FM4's AI but the difference is that they can keep up with the best of your paces and they will overtake you if you're sluggish through a corner, they just don't care.

Something that a lot people need to get off of their minds is that Shift and Shift 2 are the same, Shift 1 was like Grid but with input lag, Shift 2 is closer to FM and GT than Grid.

 

[Bigbazz]

I wouldn't waste your time with Shift 2 if you value the quality of the driving model, because there is not much quality to be found there. If you hated Shift 1 then you're definitely not going to enjoy Shift 2. It took them months into the Project Cars development/testing before they finally started to fix the issues with the handling, but even Project Cars started out just as terrible as Shift 1/2.

Shift 2 is one of the worst games I've had the misfortune of spending money on.

 

[Wolfe]

...I've heard that the 360 version has less or no input lag whatsoever, which is something you can get rid off if you use Game Mode on your TV and it'll work for all your games, specially shooters.

I have the 360 version, and I can't say I've noticed any input lag with my CRT TV. I haven't spent a ton of time with the game, though. Around 30% of the career, IIRC.

...at high speeds though, [cars] do tend wobble a bit but you can fix that by increasing the Caster angle and reducing the Steering lock which are tuning options available on all cars, you don't need to purchase any parts to adjust this stuff.

Also, for some reason, the tyre pressure is set too high on default for all cars which makes them very tail-happy. Adjusting that alone will make a huge difference.

Oh yeah, I forgot about those bits. It's such an oddball game. I had to consult FAQs online just to get everything set up to be tolerable.

 

[fatkrakr]

The Xbox and PC got a patch that was never released for the PS3 version of the game. That patch made the game somewhat playable, but didn't fix the issues.

 

[Speedster911]

Unfortunately, I played the PS3 version which is good news for you because the 360 version can only be better.

The game is playable with the default settings and a gamepad to begin with, cars feel twitchy and light at high speeds but like I said, you can make them behave however you want.

Playing around with the deadzones and sensitivity will make a huge difference and I've heard that the 360 version has less or no input lag whatsoever, which is something you can get rid off if you use Game Mode on your TV and it'll work for all your games, specially shooters.

Like FM4's Normal Steering, cars tend to be stable at low speeds and easy to correct, at high speeds though, they do tend wobble a bit but you can fix that by increasing the Caster angle and reducing the Steering lock which are tuning options available on all cars, you don't need to purchase any parts to adjust this stuff.

Also, for some reason, the tyre pressure is set too high on default for all cars which makes them very tail-happy. Adjusting that alone will make a huge difference.

The game is just so much fun, do I need to mention that you can Works convert a.k.a. Race Mod any car in the game? Wonder how a Alfa 8C race car would look and sound like?

Sounds are definitely not as pristine as FM4, they're raw and in some cases a bit fake but they're incredibly immersive. You not only hear engine and exhaust notes but the whole body of the car just being murdered by the G-forces, you can hear the suspension working, the brakes locking up aside from the tyre screeching that comes with it.

Really, this game is easily the next best thing after Forza and Gran Turismo, it has what the other 2 lack, the thrill of racing, sometimes you might even feel fear as you fly through the Ring in a Koenigsegg CCX.

The AI is mad like FM4's AI but the difference is that they can keep up with the best of your paces and they will overtake you if you're sluggish through a corner, they just don't care.

Something that a lot people need to get off of their minds is that Shift and Shift 2 are the same, Shift 1 was like Grid but with input lag, Shift 2 is closer to FM and GT than Grid.

Thanks for that mini-review!

I think I'm about 80% convinced that I should at least try it out. I need more track variety, just Forza won't do!

I have no enhancements on. I don't think there's a game mode on my Bravia 40S400A. Are you referring to PC Mode? I just use 1080p, 1:1 full pixel mapping, no enhancements, and standard/normal picture mode. No lag in games.

 

[Speedster911]

I have the 360 version, and I can't say I've noticed any input lag with my CRT TV. I haven't spent a ton of time with the game, though. Around 30% of the career, IIRC.

Oh yeah, I forgot about those bits. It's such an oddball game. I had to consult FAQs online just to get everything set up to be tolerable.

If the adjustments allow the game to behave closer to FM/GT, and real life race/road cars, I'm OK with it. It doesn't have to be completely spot on.

Need a filler you know? Until I can get a PS4/Xboner.

 

[Speedster911]

The Xbox and PC got a patch that was never released for the PS3 version of the game. That patch made the game somewhat playable, but didn't fix the issues.

Could you elaborate the issues that weren't fixed please?

And this patch, how did it alter the handling model?

 

[Speedster911]

I wouldn't waste your time with Shift 2 if you value the quality of the driving model, because there is not much quality to be found there. If you hated Shift 1 then you're definitely not going to enjoy Shift 2. It took them months into the Project Cars development/testing before they finally started to fix the issues with the handling, but even Project Cars started out just as terrible as Shift 1/2.

Shift 2 is one of the worst games I've had the misfortune of spending money on.

Have you tried adjusting all the settings like everybody mentioned?

And did you patch your version?

 

[Speedster911]

Errrr...

Could anybody please tell me how to multi-quote???? I see no option that's available on my screen.

 

[fatkrakr]

Could you elaborate the issues that weren't fixed please?

And this patch, how did it alter the handling model?

I don't think any issues were ever "fixed", but the patch was to address the imput lag, floaty physics, locking up the console, hit detection online, sticky walls and cars, and various other small bugs. I don't think everything got addressed, but I believe the imput lag was reduced a lot with the patch.

 

[Ameer67]

Errrr...

Could anybody please tell me how to multi-quote???? I see no option that's available on my screen.

Just press quote on the amount of posts that you want to quote.

 

[Speedster911]

I don't think any issues were ever "fixed", but the patch was to address the imput lag, floaty physics, locking up the console, hit detection online, sticky walls and cars, and various other small bugs. I don't think everything got addressed, but I believe the imput lag was reduced a lot with the patch.

Right. No change at all in the handling model?

 

[fatkrakr]

I don't think so, but I only had the PS3 version. I just remember people saying it was better, but still not a very good experience overall.

 

[JogoAsobi]

Like I posted earlier I had both the PS3, and the PC version.
PC version was made a lot better by the mods available over at nogripracing.com.
That being said, I no longer own said versions of Hovercraft NFS S2U...
...and will never purchase anything SMS is even remotely involved in again.

At the time, the patches that were never made available on PS3 to address the input/physics issues were attributed to relations between EA (the publisher) and SMS (the developer), with the PS3 consumer getting the short end.

I think I rear-ended fatkrakr once at high speed while online because input lag was so bad.
It really wasn't road rage.

Cannot state anything about the XBOX since I did not have that version.
Its too bad really, very nice cars, the Legends DLC had great tracks and cars.
If you can get it for cheap, I say do it and have some arcady fun with great sounds.

A sim it is not, in any way, shape or form.
Wheel is painful, controller less so on PS3.

 

[ussr]

I don't think so, but I only had the PS3 version. I just remember people saying it was better, but still not a very good experience overall.

I doubt it was better, game freezes, had problems with frame rates and i think I've read somewhere that Xbox360 version was better and didn't had those problems. Which at that time really make me mad.

 

[Rustyhole]

Saw a couple of gameplay vids of NFS Shift 2...

Gotta say I'm absolutely blown away by the engine sounds as well as the cockpit/helmet cam.

Would any of you "serious sim nuts" recommend getting it?

If the physics are half realistic, I'm getting it. How's the X360 version?

Have the PS3 version. Looks and sounds great. Physics seemed okay but couldn't get used to them as the game would crash/freeze all the time if I started going through the menus too fast. Was never able to play for more than 15 min max before crashing so just gave up. Maybe X360 won't have those issues.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

I had many crashes, mostly when using fast cars, with the PS3 version but don't remember a single crash with the 360 version. Also ran a little better graphically on the 360. Much better all around on the PC.