To Shift or not to Shift

Yes the PS3 version still freezes, the console freezes actually, you have to shut down the system. Doing the Drag championship was a nightmare because of this, with a 8-lane grid and cars braking the 400 km/h mark, it happened every 2 or 3 races.

Also, I would imagine that the 360 controller is much better than the DS3 for twitchy racing games such as Dirt 3. You really don't lose anything by trying this game out, specially if you're bored of FM4 and other racing games plus it's very cheap now and If I enjoyed it on PS3 which is the worst version, then I don't see why you wouldn't like it on the 360.

Don't see it as a replacement for FM4, just see it as a fun new game, the things it does right you can't find anywhere else. @ussr mentioned Test Drive Ferrari, while I'm not a huge fan of that game, it's also another option, it has the same excitement as the Shift games but the handling is a bit more natural and by that I mean the physics are a bit more polished but they're still sim-cade physics. The problem with that game is that you won't get all the options and customization that Shift 2 has, personally I would've liked it to be just a Ferrari DLC for Shift 2 and not a whole new game.

Try it @Speedster911 but don't give up on the first 10 minutes if you don't get a good first impression. If you go through your first day with the game and think ''this game isn't as bad as people think'' then it will only get better. Also, try it with the default settings first, see how it feels and if you really can't stand it, then customize your settings. Do this so that you can experience how the cars behave within the game's physics engine, that way, you'll know what to change to make it better, it will give you a better idea on what you can improve and what you want them to behave like.

Like I said, you can make them behave however you want, this also gets addictive, grabbing a car and tune until it feels perfect for you, specially with the test drive feature you have similar to FM4's one where you can test and tune on the fly without backing out to the menu. Also, you can save tunes for each track if you really need to so that your car will perform the best it can no matter what track you choose to race on.

BTW, this is me racing on Bathurst, bad quality I know but it shows you do not need to drift through every corner to be fast, in fact, the car in question, the Z4 GT3 was completely stock. Also, it was very late and I was sick so I apologise for that.



And this is me drifting

 
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Yes the PS3 version still freezes, the console freezes actually, you have to shut down the system. Doing the Drag championship was a nightmare because of this, with a 8-lane grid and cars braking the 400 km/h mark, it happened every 2 or 3 races.

Also, I would imagine that the 360 controller is much better than the DS3 for twitchy racing games such as Dirt 3. You really don't lose anything by trying this game out, specially if you're bored of FM4 and other racing games plus it's very cheap now and If I enjoyed it on PS3 which is the worst version, then I don't see why you wouldn't like it on the 360.

Don't see it as a replacement for FM4, just see it as a fun new game, the things it does right you can't find anywhere else. @ussr mentioned Test Drive Ferrari, while I'm not a huge fan of that game, it's also another option, it has the same excitement as the Shift games but the handling is a bit more natural and by that I mean the physics are a bit more polished but they're still sim-cade physics. The problem with that game is that you won't get all the options and customization that Shift 2 has, personally I would've liked it to be just a Ferrari DLC for Shift 2 and not a whole new game.

Try it @Speedster911 but don't give up on the first 10 minutes if you don't get a good first impression. If you go through your first day with the game and think ''this game isn't as bad as people think'' then it will only get better. Also, try it with the default settings first, see how it feels and if you really can't stand it, then customize your settings. Do this so that you can experience how the cars behave within the game's physics engine, that way, you'll know what to change to make it better, it will give you a better idea on what you can improve and what you want them to behave like.

Like I said, you can make them behave however you want, this also gets addictive, grabbing a car and tune until it feels perfect for you, specially with the test drive feature you have similar to FM4's one where you can test and tune on the fly without backing out to the menu. Also, you can save tunes for each track if you really need to so that your car will perform the best it can no matter what track you choose to race on.

BTW, this is me racing on Bathurst, bad quality I know but it shows you do not need to drift through every corner to be fast, in fact, the car in question, the Z4 GT3 was completely stock. Also, it was very late and I was sick so I apologise for that.



And this is me drifting


I was reading this thread and was about to say everything you said. I still play this game a lot and I really like it. Anybody that only has the option to play on a console and loves racing should get this and like PepeMickey said: you can tune your cars on the fly so you have the cars handling like you want in no time.

A lot of people playing console race games expect that you can just buy a car, add all the fast parts and have it handling like a dream. In this aspect I think shift 2 is very realistic. Adding a v10 to an e30 m3 and tuning it to 1200 go means it will be useless on any track unless you tune it well and even then it will be hard to keep on the road like it should.

Buy it.
 
Pepe! Thanks again for the detailed feedback.

Really enjoyed those vids you put up. The first one a bit creepy though.. no game sound, just you breathing! :lol:

On to the serious stuff: loved the Bathurst vid. Can't believe I've been missing out on this. The cam movement in cockpit gets me every time.. it is seriously impressive. Even in a low quality video clip, I can see track and car visuals look pretty good on consoles. You were playing a PS3 version I think? Good precision driving by the way! The GT3 BMW seemed firmly planted with a believable sense of traction. Were you using a wheel?

The drift vid was nice too. Decent smoke effects, although I wish they'd hover around a bit like FM4's.

I think I'm pretty much convinced I SHOULD give it a try, it looks like a lot of fun, albeit a simpler physics engine. 👍
 
I think I'm pretty much convinced I SHOULD give it a try, it looks like a lot of fun, albeit a simpler physics engine. 👍
One minor thing is the track inaccuracies. Bathurst has some width problems and the Nurburgring has some height issues. It's not a big deal really.

Other than that, go ahead. It'll keep you busy for a while.
 
I think pretty much every sim and racing game has that issue in some form or the other. With some, it's more noticeable, less in others.

It's pretty much a non-issue for me, since I'm not training to be a pro race driver! :dopey:
 
The Ring in Shift 2 is better than Forza's one though, that's a plus and yes Bathurst is really wide in Shift 2, makes it easy to overtake but it's still scary though, specially at night.
 


Even after so many months i still feel deep connection to this game. I can feel excitement when i watch other people playing it. Shift 2 has this momentum, once you are pushed to race on some decent level you just can't let it go. Game is so DYNAMIC !!! and for that i love it
 
You've got nothing to lose really, even if you don't end up liking it. I could see how people weren't happy with buying it on release and paying full price, but for what you could pick it up for now (probably $10-$15) it will be well worth it.
 
On a related note: would kill for a "serious Dirt game".

I know, While I like Dirt 3 a lot I would like to play a serious rally simulator with such graphics, sounds, gameplay and diversity, WRC 4 looks great but you're stucked with WRC cars only and the overall quality of the game isn't quite there yet.

It'll be interesting to see what can they do with next-gen hardware, both Dirt and WRC, F1 series as well.
 
Yeah, that's for sure.. all of those titles.. if done right, hope to get em!

I almost ended up getting WRC.. but it seems they need to work hard on refining the control.. and the graphics and sound just didn't do it for me. Lacked polish. Hopefully, with the next iteration then.

A serious rally sim with the Dirt engine would be heaven. What would be even sweeter though is that engine running at 60 fps uninterrupted! :cheers:
 
So I got the game. My first impression was: this isn't bad at all and a fresh change from FM4.

The deeper I went, the more er.. glitches I ran into. For instance, when I made a transmission upgrade on the first Audi I started out the game with, the driver's hand no longer moves in any way to shift gears. He doesn't even move his hand to flick the handbrake, even though you see his feet working the pedals! What....?!!

The tire screech sounds are initially fun and give you a good sense of what the tires are doing (or trying to do) but then you get this accompanying sound which sounds like something's just getting dragged under the car... kind of like when you're hitting multiple shuttle cocks with a racket! Wierd...

The graphics look like a water painting.. a good one though. But I don't think they'll do it for me. FM2 had better visuals than this, though some aspects of Shift 2 stand out. The night driving is interesting. The sense of speed is good from the bumper cam. The helmet cam is nothing short of brilliant.

BTW, and Wolfe I hope you're reading this, here are the settings I'm trying out in order for the game to feel less twitchy and more true to life (or trying to):

Tire pressure 30, F and R

Steering lock 25.00

Steering deadzone zero

S.sensitivity 100%

Throttle deadzone zero

T.sensitivity 100%

Brake deadzone zero

B.sensitivity 100%

Speed sensitivity 40%
Speed (drift) sensitivity 40%

^^ The last two, what are those two anyway? The speed at which your driver turns the wheel lock to lock?

And I'm assuming steering/brake/throttle sensitivity is the max range, right?

Do share your tunes/settings.

So far I'm not getting as much pleasure out of Shift 2 as I had hoped for, but I'm going to give it at least a few weeks.

Engine and exhaust notes are brilliant!

Wish this were a 60 fps game.

Kudos to T10 for have much BETTER graphics running at 60 fps!
 
So I got the game. My first impression was: this isn't bad at all and a fresh change from FM4.

The deeper I went, the more er.. glitches I ran into. For instance, when I made a transmission upgrade on the first Audi I started out the game with, the driver's hand no longer moves in any way to shift gears. He doesn't even move his hand to flick the handbrake, even though you see his feet working the pedals! What....?!!

The tire screech sounds are initially fun and give you a good sense of what the tires are doing (or trying to do) but then you get this accompanying sound which sounds like something's just getting dragged under the car... kind of like when you're hitting multiple shuttle cocks with a racket! Wierd...

The graphics look like a water painting.. a good one though. But I don't think they'll do it for me. FM2 had better visuals than this, though some aspects of Shift 2 stand out. The night driving is interesting. The sense of speed is good from the bumper cam. The helmet cam is nothing short of brilliant.

BTW, and Wolfe I hope you're reading this, here are the settings I'm trying out in order for the game to feel less twitchy and more true to life (or trying to):

Tire pressure 30, F and R

Steering lock 25.00

Steering deadzone zero

S.sensitivity 100%

Throttle deadzone zero

T.sensitivity 100%

Brake deadzone zero

B.sensitivity 100%

Speed sensitivity 40%
Speed (drift) sensitivity 40%

^^ The last two, what are those two anyway? The speed at which your driver turns the wheel lock to lock?

And I'm assuming steering/brake/throttle sensitivity is the max range, right?

Do share your tunes/settings.

So far I'm not getting as much pleasure out of Shift 2 as I had hoped for, but I'm going to give it at least a few weeks.

Engine and exhaust notes are brilliant!

Wish this were a 60 fps game.

Kudos to T10 for have much BETTER graphics running at 60 fps!

Edit: after more than 3 hours of play time, I can't deny it's fun. However, the physics model is pissing me off a little. Into the barriers you go at even 60 km/h and your perspective goes into warp mode, while your driver decides to go into a mini-coma. :confused: :boggled:

I've tried experimenting with a lot of the settings and tunes. While I have tamed the beast quite a bit.. I do agree with some reviewers and critics how the car feels like it's on a pivot being swung either way when going into turns, rather than all 4 tires biting into the tarmac. Also loss of grip feels wierd. My car understeers when it shouldn't and wildy flails its tail and goes into oversteer when it shouldn't. Oh boy, don't even get me started on going off road.. it's as if there's a separate magnetic filed around the track that sucks you deeper if you dare go off road! :mad:

And why is there a transmission whine when I'm driving stock road cars with no mods?! The stick shift still looks the same after I install a full-race transmission. The exhaust tip looks the same after I make a full upgrade. Hmm, this sounds familiar.. :(

And my poor driver never grabs the handbrake even though I'm pressing the button and the rear tires are locking up. Sad :irked:
 
Speed Sensitivity is how much input is needed to move the car at high speeds, the lower the value the easier it is which makes it too twitchy but a high value can also make it unresponsive. With a gamepad, anything below 80 can be way too twitchy.
 
So I got the game. My first impression was: this isn't bad at all and a fresh change from FM4.

The deeper I went, the more er.. glitches I ran into. For instance, when I made a transmission upgrade on the first Audi I started out the game with, the driver's hand no longer moves in any way to shift gears. He doesn't even move his hand to flick the handbrake, even though you see his feet working the pedals! What....?!!

The tire screech sounds are initially fun and give you a good sense of what the tires are doing (or trying to do) but then you get this accompanying sound which sounds like something's just getting dragged under the car... kind of like when you're hitting multiple shuttle cocks with a racket! Wierd...

The graphics look like a water painting.. a good one though. But I don't think they'll do it for me. FM2 had better visuals than this, though some aspects of Shift 2 stand out. The night driving is interesting. The sense of speed is good from the bumper cam. The helmet cam is nothing short of brilliant.

BTW, and Wolfe I hope you're reading this, here are the settings I'm trying out in order for the game to feel less twitchy and more true to life (or trying to):

Tire pressure 30, F and R

Steering lock 25.00

Steering deadzone zero

S.sensitivity 100%

Throttle deadzone zero

T.sensitivity 100%

Brake deadzone zero

B.sensitivity 100%

Speed sensitivity 40%
Speed (drift) sensitivity 40%

^^ The last two, what are those two anyway? The speed at which your driver turns the wheel lock to lock?

And I'm assuming steering/brake/throttle sensitivity is the max range, right?

Do share your tunes/settings.

So far I'm not getting as much pleasure out of Shift 2 as I had hoped for, but I'm going to give it at least a few weeks.

Engine and exhaust notes are brilliant!

Wish this were a 60 fps game.

Kudos to T10 for have much BETTER graphics running at 60 fps!
Never noticed that glitch with the gear changing. The game didn't have many glitches for me. The only one Ican remember is the game freezing when I hit one of the shoulder buttens at the end of the race right before the load screen for the next race.

I think the graphics are good for what the game is trying to do. 16 cars on a track with a full damage model means you have to make sacrifices in some area's. You can really beat op the cars till they are not recognizable.
 
Yeah, the only bug I encountered was the game freezing after a long session with GT1 cars on the ring. I think trees hurt graphics the most, they are rendered like little balls of cotton and only get fully rendered in 3D as you fly by them.

It bugged me in the beginning coming from the first Shift which had perfectly rendered trees but now I can live with it, the lightning is much better than the first Shift.

FM4's graphics are inmaculate though, I wouln't expect any other game to match that even though the contrast is too high in certain situations, only GT5 in my opinion can outdo Forza but just because it looks more natural and realistic not necessarily prettier.

And yes 60 fps would do wonders for this game, specially on the input lag/steering department. Every 30 fps game I've played felt em...sluggish? slow?, it just felt off but we can't do anything about it, just adapt.
 
Heh, glitches/bugs. They always fun. Could just be my game, but has anyone noticed the Radical's tires when you drive it? They are twitchy as is. :lol:
 
Heh, glitches/bugs. They always fun. Could just be my game, but has anyone noticed the Radical's tires when you drive it? They are twitchy as is. :lol:

Ah yes, the Caterham has this as well, it doesn't actually translate into the physics model because the Radical is one of the more stable cars in the game and the Caterham likes to slide and it's predictable which is to be expected but it looks weird as hell.
 
@Speedster911 -- Here are my control settings for you to try. They're a tweaked version of the widely-shared setup I found on the internet the day I brought the game home. I used the "Elite" handling mode with ABS turned on (I don't think this is one of those games where ABS off is worth the trouble):

Steering Deadzone = 5
Steering Sensitivity = 0
Throttle Deadzone = 5
Throttle Sensitivity = 50
Brake Deadzone = 5
Brake Sensitivity = 35
Clutch Deadzone = 5
Clutch Sensitivity = 50
Speed Sensitivity = 95
Speed Sensitivity (Drift) = 100

With the speed sensitivity up (lower = twitchier, as PepeMickey said) and the steering sensitivity down, hopefully the game will become smoother and seem more natural. Bear in mind that I've always preferred weighty steering like the Normal setting in FM4, which you said you've recently tried. :) The reduced throttle/brake sensitivity should also allow for more control over those inputs. Your deadzones could probably remain at zero, as you prefer it. I don't remember if there was a reason I set them to '5'.

Your tire pressure and steering lock settings should be good, I tweaked those a bit depending on the car. Just don't forget to set those on every new car you pick up...like Gran Turismo and its driving assists. :boggled:
 
Yeah I use 0 steering sensitivity and 2 steering deadzone (on a pad) because this game doesn't have as much dampening as FM or GT so the deadzone will help you with straight-line stability.
 
Speed Sensitivity is how much input is needed to move the car at high speeds, the lower the value the easier it is which makes it too twitchy but a high value can also make it unresponsive. With a gamepad, anything below 80 can be way too twitchy.

Ah, you don't SAY! This should be interesting to try out.

Never noticed that glitch with the gear changing. The game didn't have many glitches for me. The only one Ican remember is the game freezing when I hit one of the shoulder buttens at the end of the race right before the load screen for the next race.

I think the graphics are good for what the game is trying to do. 16 cars on a track with a full damage model means you have to make sacrifices in some area's. You can really beat op the cars till they are not recognizable.

If you can, try this:

Upgrade your car's transmission from a stock to any other. Who knows maybe this is a bug with the organge Audi Quattro only that you start out with. I did notice though, it wasn't there with the S2000. But after getting a full race transmission, the stick/gear shaft looked and moved exactly the same! Little things like these... get to you!

Yeahhh... I'm trying to live with the graphics. Forza spoils you rotten! Night driving... man... nice job Slightly Mad! :D

Yeah, the only bug I encountered was the game freezing after a long session with GT1 cars on the ring. I think trees hurt graphics the most, they are rendered like little balls of cotton and only get fully rendered in 3D as you fly by them.

It bugged me in the beginning coming from the first Shift which had perfectly rendered trees but now I can live with it, the lightning is much better than the first Shift.

FM4's graphics are inmaculate though, I wouln't expect any other game to match that even though the contrast is too high in certain situations, only GT5 in my opinion can outdo Forza but just because it looks more natural and realistic not necessarily prettier.

And yes 60 fps would do wonders for this game, specially on the input lag/steering department. Every 30 fps game I've played felt em...sluggish? slow?, it just felt off but we can't do anything about it, just adapt.

My game froze once - after a race ended and it was loading back to the menu.

I completely agree with you when you say GT5's colors are more realistic and natural.. they are quite the crowd pleaser.

Interested in making the colors look more natural in FM4? Don't use Cinema or Vivid on your screen, just standard picture mode. Tone down the saturation to 40%, use warm color hue (initial only, not warm 2), keep brightness locked in at 55% or adjust accordingly to avoid black crush, contrast between 55 and 70% and no enhancements at all. From the game's menu, keep brightness around 40. You're going to experience a little black crush, but you may be willing to live with it. Even in-game set to 50 is OK, so long as you don't use very high values in standard/normal picture mode. Just avoid Cinema and Vivid; both make the game look overblown.

Same here - all 30 fps games feel sluggish to me... unless I play in a completely dark room with the backlight all the way down to zero. Helps the human eye perceive smoother motion, but it doesn't quite feel as "real" as 60 fps games. 30 fps games are as if you're inside a trippy, lucid dream. But like you said, we just adapt. PC gaming spoils you good, doesn't it?

@Speedster911 -- Here are my control settings for you to try. They're a tweaked version of the widely-shared setup I found on the internet the day I brought the game home. I used the "Elite" handling mode with ABS turned on (I don't think this is one of those games where ABS off is worth the trouble):

Steering Deadzone = 5
Steering Sensitivity = 0
Throttle Deadzone = 5
Throttle Sensitivity = 50
Brake Deadzone = 5
Brake Sensitivity = 35
Clutch Deadzone = 5
Clutch Sensitivity = 50
Speed Sensitivity = 95
Speed Sensitivity (Drift) = 100

With the speed sensitivity up (lower = twitchier, as PepeMickey said) and the steering sensitivity down, hopefully the game will become smoother and seem more natural. Bear in mind that I've always preferred weighty steering like the Normal setting in FM4, which you said you've recently tried. :) The reduced throttle/brake sensitivity should also allow for more control over those inputs. Your deadzones could probably remain at zero, as you prefer it. I don't remember if there was a reason I set them to '5'.

Your tire pressure and steering lock settings should be good, I tweaked those a bit depending on the car. Just don't forget to set those on every new car you pick up...like Gran Turismo and its driving assists. :boggled:

I always prefer a weighty steering over a quick and twitchy one, always. Feels more realistic to me. You said about keeping ABS on. I think keeping it off makes no difference whatsoever - in a straight line, the brakes never lock up.. on any car.. ever! How bizarre...

Why can't I tune my car right before a race? Do I need to go back to the main menu and load up a specific tune for my car before entering a race? The tunes don't remain loaded like they do in Forza. You have to load them up every time you boot up the game. Annoying to say the least.

Hey, what's that wierd sound of cans rattling in the back seat, or somebody hitting multiple shuttle cocks really fast with a racket? It happens around corners... is it the sound of your tires struggling to hold the tarmac??? Because it is one WIERD sound... it's louder than all the other sounds! :grumpy:

And why oh why Slightly Mad, have you put a transmission whine on all the stock cars? This by far was the wierdest!
 
Wolfe, I tried the settings you posted.

Unfortunately they are not working for me that well. The steering feels dull and lifeless, even though I've tried toying around with wheel lock and tire pressure, along with different suspension settings. It's almost as if the car is a boat, hovering just an inch above the ground, on a pivot I might add, and that pivot magically disappears around turns.. that's when the tires seem to catch on to the tarmac suddenly, and give way just as suddenly. It's as if grip in Shift 2 works on an on/off principle.

Resetted the controller settings to default, except for deadzones - those are always kept at zero. The steering seems to have more bite and response now, without being too twitchy, but the way the tires react with the tarmac and the chassis/body of your car rolls around even on the stiffest of settings, is strange, unpredictable...heck, even cartoony. I hate to admit this, but physics like these make me appreciate Horizon all the more. Even though as far as braking is concerned, it does the opposite of S2; you slow down too quickly without the brakes even locking up.

Here's another example: you hold a line before entering a corner, and you feel as if your car's understeering.. then out of nowhere you get this MAD grip, and you think you're going to get oversteer but you don't. God forbid, if you clip a wall, this magnetic field pulls you in and you hit it harder than you possibly could IRL, all the while going at under 70 km/h I should mention. I'm driving a 435 hp S2000 with a curb weight of under 1300 kg, and the tail doesn't kick out. That's completely uncalled for! The only way for your tail to kick out is to wildly swerve the wheel in either direction while going at a decent speed. Can't believe Slightly Mad pitched this as a 'realistic racing game'.

And why do I get the feeling my car's going sideways into a corner, as if it were a plane banking on either side. The way the nose yaws, especially in the helmet cam just throws me off.

At this point I'm highly compelled to stop playing. It could cramp my driving in Forza AND IRL sooner than I think!

No brake locks ups at all.. none. Who on the development team got that idea?!

Sadly.. on a final note, I'd say GRID II and Dirt 3 are far more realistic and predictable than S2.
 
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