ZedTunes' Autumn/Fall Rally Shootout 2011

[dr_slump]

hey Onboy123 did you forget to review praiano63's mini? I dont see it in your review.

I think we are 3 in this case. Question of time.👍

CyKosis1973 - Peugeot 206 S16 '99
dr_slump - Mitsubishi CZ3 Tarmac '01
praiano63 - Mini Cooper S '05

He hasn't forgotten my car, he's just too scared.
little grammar fail......

 

[CSLACR]

Anyway, here are my thoughts so far, reading reviews.

CSLACR- Lancia Stratos ‘73
I am not going to lie… I had high hopes for this car, very high hopes. But I was disappointed with it. This car was so prone to spinning on the dirt, if you turned the wheel just a tad too much you spun the car, this took place on both snow and dirt. And because of this you had to drive the car slow and I mean slow!!!!!!! I could not even think about drifting the turns. On the track it was much better the spinning was gone and you could really drive it, there was a little tail happiness but nothing bad all good there. I just wished it drove on the dirt and snow like it did on the track.

To me this is all pretty much pointing out the obvious, all RWD cars lack any amount of grip off tarmac, so the only thing I can actually take from this review is that it worked well on tarmac for the driver.

Tarmac: Well tuned 1st for standing starts. A lot of grip in the corners, less scary than any other Stratos I've driven. Very quick turn in. Feels too numb in corners sometimes.
Gravel: Very easy to work with, even on a relatively unknown surface. Very controllable, easy to manage. Doesn't bite. Much. Need to tread carefully, too much throttle + short wheel base + slippery gravel = spin. Great fun to try and master though.
Snow: Edgy. Scary. 1st is useless, need to short shift. Car lacks grip on surfaces and on turns with banking.

I'm surprised a bit no complaints of standing starts, though it didn't quite bog, it's a pretty long gear, but for racing a 5spd that can easily exceed 150mph...
The rest is pretty much spot-on, though snow typically has more grip than gravel...Sooo, a bit odd, but fair enough, not complaining that RWD has no grip, which is good, as there was no choice in car.👍

CSLACR - Lancia Stratos '73
Tarmac: Pretty decent in a straight line. Understeers in corners but gives a few little slides out of them, which are actually rather controllable.
Gravel: Rather slippery, but not too hard to keep facing the right way.
Snow: Pretty slippery, and making a mistake has much consequence, in that it is very hard to keep it where it is after slipping too wide. If you can keep it under control, it's OK, but still is slidey, albeit not hard to keep facing the right way again.

Again, these are all true (though it still over-steers for me entering corners a little bit)
But the gravel and snow is just complaints of the car itself's grip levels, which are made by PD, not me.


Sorry if that all comes off a bit harsh, but as of this writing, the only test reviews I can really go off of are tarmac apparently, because the snow and gravel ones simply complain about the game's grip level for the car off-road.

I'm disappointed because I'd expected the test drivers knew what to expect from rwd on gravel and snow, and two of these replies tell me some do not.

 

[Michelin]

Gonna test the 3 that are left tomorrow. Or 2, if Jack didn't accept my FR. I know that RJ and CSLACR accept it.

 

[Onboy123]

Right. 2 down, one to go. And I've hit a problem. I've still got lumpy's Mitsu to test but my mum just came back…so…my current options (please give your opinions as to which is best)-

- carry on regardless and hope my mum's in a good mood
- leave it till past midnight when it is technically the public holiday but dragging the shootout a few hours and a few minutes longer
- leave it till tomorrow and drag it on for 24+ hours.

P.S Cykosis, got a spare 106/206? Can I have it, please????

 

[XDesperado67]

Right. 2 down, one to go. And I've hit a problem. I've still got lumpy's Mitsu to test but my mum just came back…so…my current options (please give your opinions as to which is best)-

- carry on regardless and hope my mum's in a good mood
- leave it till past midnight when it is technically the public holiday but dragging the shootout a few hours and a few minutes longer
- leave it till tomorrow and drag it on for 24+ hours.

P.S Cykosis, got a spare 106/206? Can I have it, please????

Do whatever doesn't get you in trouble.

 

[Onboy123]

Do whatever doesn't get you in trouble.

I didn't. I got caught. But, as it turns out, my mum was in a good mood! So, testing has finished!! That's one bit of good news. Here's the other one, particularly for you, Desperado. Look who won for mine.

 

[VTiRoj]

I didn't. I got caught. But, as it turns out, my mum was in a good mood! So, testing has finished!! That's one bit of good news. Here's the other one, particularly for you, Desperado. Look who won for mine.

XDesperado has practically won this shootout already. Congrats XDesperado! Can you see why I wanted an Evo now?

Hella jealous of the Evo!

 

[Onboy123]

XDesperado has practically won this shootout already. Congrats XDesperado! Can you see why I wanted an Evo now?

I could tell, I could really tell you were a bit bitter about it. To be honest though, I'm with you, I'd much rather the Evo over the Alpine any day. But I'd much rather an 90's Impreza over any Evo, any day.

 

[VTiRoj]

I could tell, I could really tell you were a bit bitter about it. To be honest though, I'm with you, I'd much rather the Evo over the Alpine any day. But I'd much rather an 90's Impreza over any Evo, any day.

A bit? I was effectively screwed out of any chance of winning thanks to that waste of disc space. I would've done better if I'd have just quit the moment I got the car.

I'd take any late-90's Impreza over any Evo. The earlier models are good but they have their problems that the later models fixed. After '99, I'd take an Evo every time.

 

[CyKosis1973]

CyKosis1973's Peugeot 206 S16-

Tarmac: Goes like that ricey 90hp shopping trolley we all seem to have in mind, but grips enough to compensate. Understeer is kept to a minimum and there's fun to be had when you give it a flick into the corner. Very easy to drive, responsive steering and no understeer issues means this car is great fun.
Gravel: Much of the same, rear is more slippery, front still grips well. Still easy to drive. Still fun. A good starting car if you've just started rally driving.
Snow: Understeers if you're not careful, and that will range from slight understeer to simply failing to steer at all, depending on the situation. Otherwise, top of the FWD class.

Rankings-

FWD (Tarmac)- Praiano's Mini Cooper S
FWD (Gravel)- Cykosis1973's Peugeot 206
FWD (Snow)- Cykosis1973's Peugeot 206

FWD (Overall)- Cykosis1973's Peugeot 206

Huzzah..!! Someone who 'gets' the little Pug. Sounds like you drove the car exactly as it was meant to be driven, hard. Surprised, and delighted, to pip Praiano to top FWD spot. I know he had issues with his car, but we're all well aware of his outstanding work and I'm chuffed to have given him a good run.

I was beginning to loose a little faith, fingers crossed that NascarManic enjoys the car as much as you did. As ever, thank you for your time and efforts... 👍👍

{Cy}

EDIT:

P.S Cykosis, got a spare 106/206? Can I have it, please????

I have a 206 RC that I've been working on since submitting the S16, I think you might like it. I've used my 'trade' for the day, but I'll send you a copy of the RC tomorrow, if you'd like...

 

[Onboy123]

A bit? I was effectively screwed out of any chance of winning thanks to that waste of disc space. I would've done better if I'd have just quit the moment I got the car.

I'd take any late-90's Impreza over any Evo. The earlier models are good but they have their problems that the later models fixed. After '99, I'd take an Evo every time.

You could just shuffle the tickets, it's not like we're going to know, are we? Who knows, you could have struck lucky and got the Bread Van!

Huzzah..!! Someone who 'gets' the little Pug. Sounds like you drove the car exactly as it was meant to be driven, hard. Surprised, and delighted, to pip Praiano to top FWD spot. I know he had issues with his car, but we're all well aware of his outstanding work and I'm chuffed to have given him a good run.

I was beginning to loose a little faith, fingers crossed that NascarManic enjoys the car as much as you did. As ever, thank you for your time and efforts... 👍👍

{Cy}

I'm glad I opened up the tune's link and read the quoted excerpt, otherwise, I would have screwed it up royally

And you still haven't answered me, do you have a spare?

Edit: You have answered me!! Yes, I'll take it!

 

[XDesperado67]

XDesperado has practically won this shootout already. Congrats XDesperado! Can you see why I wanted an Evo now?

Thanks but its not over until the fat lady sings as they say.
To be honest I guess its a matter of priorities but I still think I would have enjoyed tuning the Alpine over the EVO. The EVO is very competent regardless of tune and has no soul. You have to practically ruin its performance to give it any real feeling of life. I'm sure I have its performance on the snow to thank for its success as its so ridiculously fast and stable there that it starts to become fun. Otherwise for me its just another fairly quick car in a field of quick cars with nothing to distinguish it.

 

[VTiRoj]

You could just shuffle the tickets, it's not like we're going to know, are we? Who knows, you could have struck lucky and got the Bread Van!

I didn't want to risk being excluded for re-rolling tickets (C-ZETA said it wasn't allowed) and C-ZETA was practically watching me anyway. I wanted to enjoy the shootout and I honestly thought I'd get a decent first roll, since I actually got the same Evo XDesperado got when I opened my very first rally ticket back in December. So yeah, you can imagine my disappointment when I saw the Alpine appear instead of something that would actually be competitive.

I'm probably going to avoid any sort of shootout where the car choices are out of the tuner's hand. It just makes me hate the car I'm given.

Thanks but its not over until the fat lady sings as they say.
To be honest I guess its a matter of priorities but I still think I would have enjoyed tuning the Alpine over the EVO. The EVO is very competent regardless of tune and has no soul. You have to practically ruin its performance to give it any real feeling of life. I'm sure I have its performance on the snow to thank for its success as its so ridiculously fast and stable there that it starts to become fun. Otherwise for me its just another fairly quick car in a field of quick cars with nothing to distinguish it.

I kind of disagree. I went and built up an Evo X under the shootout rules to shake off my disappointment and I loved it to bits. Plenty of fun on any surface, compared to the Alpine which felt dull.

 

[CyKosis1973]

CyKosis1973 - Peugeot 206 S16 '99

Tarmac: Not as much understeer as would be thought of from an FF, and has semi-fast acceleration. If you've come out of the wrong car though it can affect your performance with it.
Gravel: Simple drive, can flick about rather well. Less power makes its job easier and still makes for a pretty good ride.
Snow: Grippy, but actually feels quite fun. Pretty fast given how it only has 170bhp, which I presume gives it more fun factor.

Final result:

4. CyKosis1973 - Peugeot 206 S16 '99 (good on tarmac but only if you've got the right driving feel, decent gravel ability, fun in snow)

Wow, 4th spot <- that's me blushing by the way.

I was surprised at how well it drove on tarmac, parked way up high on fairly weak springs. If you get the time, take it to the Green Hell, you'll like it quite a bit.

The reduced configuration really suited the car. Whilst my initial efforts with much more power, less weight and no downforce were quite good, the car really came into it's own with a bit more weight and less power. If you're driving manual, you can short shift into 2nd out of the hairpins and maintain traction, for auto shifters, you've just got to carry more speed than you might think safe into the corner. When the car had more power, exiting hairpins (particularly on up hill sections) was torturous. No matter what I did, it just kept spinning the wheels. Lower power meant that even if you are in 1st, you can feather the throttle lightly and it'll grab 2nd quick enough.

As per above, if you're looking at any of these cars, start here and work your way up. If you can put in fast laps in this thing, then you'll derive more enjoyment from some of the faster cars here.

Thanks for your time and efforts... 👍👍

{Cy}

 

[CyKosis1973]

I'm glad I opened up the tune's link and read the quoted excerpt, otherwise, I would have screwed it up royally

And you still haven't answered me, do you have a spare?

Edit: You have answered me!! Yes, I'll take it!

That little excerpt formed a large part of the car's build. If you haven't already, have a look at the source that I got it from, should be linked at the bottom of the quote. Gives some great tips and hints on how to drive on gravel. Things like using the sidewall of the rear wheels to brake, rather than the brakes themselves. And being able to use the brake and throttle to simulate using the handbrake, but with the bonus of keeping the revs up.

I should have the 106 Rallye finished by the end of the week and a revised version of the S16 too. Those and the RC will form my 400PP Peugeot Rallye Party Pack. You'll get an exclusive preview of the pack with the RC tomorrow, Sir

{Cy}

 

[Onboy123]

I didn't want to risk being excluded for re-rolling tickets (C-ZETA said it wasn't allowed) and C-ZETA was practically watching me anyway. I wanted to enjoy the shootout and I honestly thought I'd get a decent first roll, since I actually got the same Evo XDesperado got when I opened my very first rally ticket back in December. So yeah, you can imagine my disappointment when I saw the Alpine appear instead of something that would actually be competitive.

I'm probably going to avoid any sort of shootout where the car choices are out of the tuner's hand. It just makes me hate the car I'm given.

Well, this is the only shootout I can think of which doesn't let you choose your car.

I kind of disagree. I went and built up an Evo X under the shootout rules to shake off my disappointment and I loved it to bits. Plenty of fun on any surface, compared to the Alpine which felt dull.

A fun Evo? That I have to see. And you only have 90hp to play with, so it's reasonable

 

[VTiRoj]

Well, this is the only shootout I can think of which doesn't let you choose your car.

A fun Evo? That I have to see. And you only have 90hp to play with, so it's reasonable

Perhaps you weren't around for them, but it was organised by Adrenaline. We all had the same car to tune, then the testers would test and whichever car had the fastest average time among the testers would win. After the first completed shootout I'd already had enough.

Also way to go putting XDesperado's name instead of mine. I find Evo's fun to drive, deal with it. And no, I won't be reasonable with a car that can only win anything because everyone else felt sorry for it and let it win.

 

[Onboy123]

Perhaps you weren't around for them, but it was organised by Adrenaline. We all had the same car to tune, then the testers would test and whichever car had the fastest average time among the testers would win. After the first completed shootout I'd already had enough.

Also way to go putting XDesperado's name instead of mine. I find Evo's fun to drive, deal with it. And no, I won't be reasonable with a car that can only win anything because everyone else felt sorry for it and let it win.

I was! I read about it back when I was still a new member (like, really, really new).

So fail. And I wasn't being nice, I was being honest, I was better. For once, power didn't dictate a car's place in a competition.

 

[C-ZETA]

So right now, in terms of points, as it stands, with NM's current (but not final) results...

XDesperado67 - 10 pts
Jackthalad - 5 pts (but not tested by NM yet)
krenkme - 5 pts
CyKosis1973 - 2 pts
VTiRoj - 1 pt
dr_slump - 1 pt

The only way Despy can be dethroned from top spot is being relegated to 4th by NM, which would mean all three remaining cars beating it - and it would mean Jack would also have to get 1st place from NM. If Despy finishes 3rd and finishes on equal points with Jack if he wins NM's top vote, Despy wins the whole thing anyway as, for a tiebreaker, he'll have 2 tuners top votes, while Jack will only have 1.

Essentially, Jack'll have to hope NM prefers CSL's Stratos and RJ's A110 over Despy's Evo...yeah.

 

[CSLACR]

Essentially, Jack'll have to hope NM prefers CSL's Stratos and RJ's A110 over Despy's Evo...yeah.

If we were comparing how the cars improved over stock maybe there would be a chance.
But I can't see anything non 4WD having a shot at "driving pleasure" off road. I think the current standings reflect that pretty well.

You should be more wary of Nascar's testing though, if only a little.

7 reviews finished. Rankings:
1st. XDesesperado Lancer Evo VI
2nd. CyKosis 206 S16
3rd. Roj's A110
4th. GfxJG Cooper S
5th. dr_slump CZ-3 Tarmac
6th. praiano's Cooper S
7th. krenkme's Lancer Evo V

While 4wd of course remains supreme, other drive trains at least have some chance with him and Onboy.

 

[Michelin]

If we were comparing how the cars improved over stock maybe there would be a chance.
But I can't see anything non 4WD having a shot at "driving pleasure" off road. I think the current standings reflect that pretty well.

You should be more wary of Nascar's testing though, if only a little.

While 4wd of course remains supreme, other drive trains at least have some chance with him and Onboy.

Just to say, I'm really looking forward to the Stratos and the other A110 tune, since I'm a fan of Lancia and of Alpine. Even though I like AWDs overall.

 

[XDesperado67]

Well since it appears my "Bubblegum Bandit" will be stealing at least part of the loot for this shootout I would like to request that said ill gotten gains be transferred to my secondary account on PSN. Not sure if I have you on my friends list there C-ZETA, ID is GTP_Desperado67

 

[Michelin]

Starting 8th review, with the Impreza. Let's see if it can put down Desperado Lancer, since they're rivals!

 

[CSLACR]

Just to say, I'm really looking forward to the Stratos and the other A110 tune, since I'm a fan of Lancia and of Alpine. Even though I like AWDs overall.

Hopefully you enjoy them both, since that's the main joy of testing, driving enjoyable cars.

I'd be lying to say the results are dramatically important to me, I myself would also pick 4WD for anything off-road based on sheer driving pleasure. Of course on tarmac I dislike 4WD quite a bit.

 

[Michelin]

I say Jack still has a chance. So far, in both snow and gravel, his Impreza has beat by almost 2 secs both Desperado's Lancer VI time. Mind you those tracks that I'm testing are custom, with the same setting (wide fast section up first, then a more narrow but still fast section then two sections narrowed to the max, with tight slow turns. Just to you guys imagine, the Toscana Custom track has 8408.3 meters, with a 771.3 meters long straight, over 60 turns and the medium time is 4:30. So yeah, it's a hrad to challenge.

 

[CSLACR]

So I hopped in Desperado's Evo, (Since I was already downloading a track from him) took it for 3 spins around Chamonix, offline.

And it's nothing short of fantastic, at least in the snow. Drives exactly the way I want it, brakes give me oversteer at will, throttle also gives me oversteer at will, while the general balance is mild understeer, which makes it super easy to control and return from slides.
9.9 out of 10 from me, nothing short of fantastic. 👍

Attached is a replay of a 3:29 lap at full Chamonix, with time left on the track.

 

[Michelin]

Missing one car now. CSLACR, your Stratos just gave me one of the most fun rides ever in the Tarmac!

Ohohohohoho 500th post!

 

[XDesperado67]

@CSLACR thanks for your review on the Bubblegum Bandit.

If your interested give me a little bit and I'll put my Alaskan sleigh ride course on share. It's 5.5 miles of high speed thrills.

 

[Michelin]

And I'm done !
All test's we're done with ABS 1 and Manual Transmission.
---------------------------
praiano's Cooper S:

Tarmac: Quite a bit of understeer, which is normal. Gearing give a good acceleration and good top speed.
Gravel: Reached the limiter of 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears like 20km/h before the normal on tarmac. Car is very good.
Snow: Pure grip. Car can make any turn, no matter is a slow tight or fast wide turn, it will make.
----------------------------
dr slump CZ-3 Tarmac:

Tarmac: Name makes justice. It's all I can say.
Gravel: Same thing of Roj's A110. But it wasn't controllable. And this isn't a RR car.
Snow: Again same surprise as I got in Roj's A110. Controllable, can do whatever I want with it and it will answer.
----------------------------
CyKosis 206:

Tarmac: Lacks on fun, but sure is comparable in grip terms with the CZ-3 Tarmac tune by dr slump.
Gravel: What a BEAST ! Hold any line I wanted. Any. It left me speechless.
Snow: Car feels good here too. Just lacks fun. Again.
----------------------------
RJ's A110:

Tarmac: Same thing that happened in both snow and gravel.
Gravel: Same thing that happened in snow.
Snow: Back seemed happy for most of turns, but it was controllable. Some hints of understeer, nothing too serious.
----------------------------
krenkme Evo V:

Tarmac: Understeer monster. Couldn't make a turn without hitting the wall.
Gravel: It was a beast, the car answered to all that I tryed to do with it. And a beast acceleration.
Snow: The understeer is there, but you don't feel it as much as on tarmac.
----------------------------
Roj A110:

Tarmac: Underpowered, but it pretty much answers to what you want to do with it.
Gravel: Back seemed wayy too happy... more than normal for RR cars, but it was controllable at all times.
Snow: Got a huge surprise. A helluva of a car, can do whatever I want with it and it will answer.
----------------------------
Jack Impreza:

Tarmac: Same thing as Desperado Evo VI, but lacked a little on top speed. And didn't went that well on some turns.
Gravel: Same thing as Desperado Evo VI.
Snow: Even being a little ovesteery in slow tight turns and understeery in fast wide turns, it beat the Lancer VI time in my Alaska track. And it went against my snow principiles, just like the Lancer VI.
----------------------------
GfxJG Cooper S:

Tarmac: Car had some bits of understeer, nothing too serious. But I think it could've gone better, had big expectations after snow and gravel tests.
Gravel: Acceleration looks like improved from snow, maintaned the good handling it has.
Snow: Good Acceleration, good turns. Can't complain about it, liked the way it.
----------------------------
XDesperado Evo VI:
Tarmac: Pure grip. Hold whichever lane you want thru any corner, to the tightest ones to the widest ones.
Gravel: Controllable drifts. That's what you get. And they help you make better laps. HOW? I don't know.
Snow: It likes to go little sideways, against all my principles in snow driving (which are like the tarmac principiles). Still, those little drifts helped it make a pretty qucik time.
----------------------------
CSL Stratos:

Tarmac: Back kicks out in every turn, turning it in a fun ride sliding at every turn. Loved it every single second of it's run.
Gravel: Likes to go sideways, but can save. It's a fun car. But doesn't like to be pushed too far. If pushed too far, it will bite you. Hard.
Snow: Back wayyy too happy for my taste. Atleast no sign of over or understeer.
----------------------------

1st. XDesperado Lancer Evo VI
2nd. Jack Impreza
3rd. CyKosis 206 S16
4th. Roj's A110
5th. CSLACR Stratos
6th. GfxJG Cooper S
7th. RJ's A110
8th. dr_slump CZ-3 Tarmac
9th. praiano's Cooper S
10th. krenkme's Lancer Evo V

 

[XDesperado67]

Bubblegum Bandit
steals
Rally Shootout Trophy
in surprise runaway victory!​

Big thanks to all the test drivers.
Would like to take more credit as a tuner but really its the car. Incredibly competent base car that's easy to tune for increased performance. I'm sure most of the other tuners would have seen similar or better results if they had gotten this car as their base car.

Good job everyone.👍👍
Remember as Harvey Wallbanger always says...
Drive hard and have fun!