My mom wants a new car.

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M5Power
Underpowered
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Underpowered? It's not that underpowered is it? With the current 3.0L V6, I think it does fine. Even with the 160hp I4 it isn't that horribly underpowered?The car isn't trying to break any speed records and when it gets 265hp from the 3.5L is it still underpowered?
 
Monte Carlo
I don't have to worry about that, my dad already owns one. :D

I've just returned from school, with my trusty New Car Buying Guide, I've realised how much space the Suzuki SX4 has in such a small package! 38 Cubic Feet would please my mom very much... Also how could I forget the Toyota Prius, she loves hybrids, might show her a basic one.
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I saw couple of SX4 at the local auto show. While it looked pretty nice, the engine wasn't too impressive. Underpowered, and poor gas mileage. Suzuki's losing combination I also saw with their Aerios. I was interested in both, until I saw the horsepower/mpg figures.
 
a6m5
My Nissan Altima won that award in 2002.

How is one of the cheapest car in its' class over priced?
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Because it's extremely overpriced for what it delivers: very little. Base model vs. base model, the Fusion is okay - Ford clearly benchmarked the Accord there, because the Fusion is slightly cheaper and offers literally the exact same spec list. Accord has more torque, gets better gas mileage, and offers more interior room for both front and rear passengers. It also has more cargo room. But again, Fusion is cheaper, so we can call it a wash.

But then again - maybe it's not a wash - since for $18000, which is the price of this thing, you could have a very well-specced Civic. Or a top spec Focus. Which would you choose? Not a Fusion loss per se, but my point is that the base model is for suckers. Ford can claim it's the cheapest car in its class all it wants, but the incredible majority of the sales come in the mid- and high-spec versions, and that's where it loses out.

Fit and finish looked really good.
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I can't decide what I like more. The fact that Ford's too cheap to offer a turn signal separate from the brake light, or the fact that Ford can't seem to work out how to make a manu-matic transmission for a "sporty" car.

Underpowered? It's not that underpowered is it? With the current 3.0L V6, I think it does fine.
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Power ratings of midsize sedans using their top 6-cylinder engines
- Volkswagen Passat: 280
- Toyota Avalon: 268
- Toyota Camry: 268
- Nissan Altima: 265
- Nissan Maxima: 265
- Hyundai Azera: 263
- Pontiac Grand Prix: 260
- Mitsubishi Galant: 258
- Pontiac G6: 252
- Saturn Aura: 252
- Subaru Legacy: 245
- Honda Accord: 244
- Buick Lacrosse: 240
- Chevrolet Malibu: 240
- Chrysler Sebring: 235
- Hyundai Sonata: 235
- Chevrolet Impala: 233
- Ford Fusion: 221
- Mazda 6: 215
- Ford Five Hundred: 201
- Kia Optima: 185

So it comes in fourth to last, and two of the products behind it are made by Ford. And the other one is stretching the definition of 'midsize sedan.' Can't put it any clearer - the Fusion is unbelievably underpowered.

The car isn't trying to break any speed records and when it gets 265hp from the 3.5L is it still underpowered?
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Regardless, that engine should've been in that car five years ago. That it wasn't reflects Ford's incompetence as a brand, and their products, the Fusion included.
 
Are you the one buying the car? No. 220 hp is plenty for the majority of people. Is this thread about you? No. Go make a case elsewhere, because for what it is, the Fusion is a fair car on the market. Also, most of those cars are more expensive than the V-6 fusion. In example, the V-6 Passat is $29,960 at the cheapest and the Fusion the most expensive one with every option short of spoiler and heated seats, is $29,480.
 
The Fusion is a fair car. But I still think Consumer Reports is kind of opiniated.. Half their recommended buys are Buicks and Lincolns!
 
Whats wrong with them? They're stodgy of course, but they usually have good packaging and reliability.The only detractor is the interior.
 
Monte Carlo
Are you the one buying the car? No. 220 hp is plenty for the majority of people. Is this thread about you? No. Go make a case elsewhere, because for what it is, the Fusion is a fair car on the market. Also, most of those cars are more expensive than the V-6 fusion. In example, the V-6 Passat is $29,960 at the cheapest and the Fusion the most expensive one with every option short of spoiler and heated seats, is $29,480.
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I assume he didn't read post #1 of this thread.

Monte Carlo
Whats wrong with them? They're stodgy of course, but they usually have good packaging and reliability.The only detractor is the interior.
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Well, have you seen that most of the new Ford's have been using styling similar to the fusion? (yes, you should have by now) And for those who don't like the fusion will obviously not like the new '08 focus, the new '07 edge, the '08 five-hundred, the '08 super duty, the airstream concept & the interceptor concept.
 
Of course not. Does anyone? Also, notice how a lot of the cars on his list are also on mine.
 
Monte Carlo
Of course not. Does anyone? Also, notice how a lot of the cars on his list are also on mine.
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At least I did, did you read my 1st post in this thread?
 
Yeah, TS you posted something informative and helpful. It was a price chart with the econocars on it right?
 
Monte Carlo
Yeah, TS you posted something informative and helpful. It was a price chart with the econocars on it right?
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Yeah. If you want me to do a price check on a specific car, ask.
 
Its fine actually, I might have 10 tabs open at a time, building cars willy nilly.
 
Monte Carlo
Are you the one buying the car? No. 220 hp is plenty for the majority of people. Is this thread about you? No.
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:rolleyes:

I agree with your contention that 220hp is plenty for the majority of people. But you've missed my point unbelievably - the car IS underpowered for its class. Period. Full stop. Case closed. So regardless of whether it's plenty for the majority of people or not, my point still holds.

As for whether my posts have been regarding 'my' tastes, I'm merely pointing out the unbelievable deficiencies of the vehicle. Considering that you may be considering purchasing the vehicle, you think you'd be interested. Guess not.

Ever wondered why they're offering rebates on a two-year-old vehicle, while Honda has yet to do so on the five-year-old Accord? Hmm.

In example, the V-6 Passat is $29,960 at the cheapest and the Fusion the most expensive one with every option short of spoiler and heated seats, is $29,480.
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If your budget really was $22k:

'05 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT w/ 10k = $22k
'05 Honda Accord EX w/ 9k = $22k
'07 Toyota Camry SE V6 w/ 5k = $22k
'06 Nissan Altima 3.5SL w/ 10k = $22k

Each of those cars is top-spec, fully-loaded, and leagues better than a new Fusion. Now - tell me why not.

Now, you know these aren't my preferences, because if it were me buying this car, it'd be:

'02 Audi A8L w/ 64k = $22k
'91 Porsche 964 Cabriolet w/ 89k = $21k
'01 Mercedes CLK55 AMG w/ 60k = $21k
'00 BMW 740i M Sport w/ 70k = $22k
'81 Ferrari 308GTSi w/ 110k = $19k

See the difference?
 
M5Power
Because it's extremely overpriced for what it delivers: very little. Base model vs. base model, the Fusion is okay - Ford clearly benchmarked the Accord there, because the Fusion is slightly cheaper and offers literally the exact same spec list. Accord has more torque, gets better gas mileage, and offers more interior room for both front and rear passengers. It also has more cargo room. But again, Fusion is cheaper, so we can call it a wash.

But then again - maybe it's not a wash - since for $18000, which is the price of this thing, you could have a very well-specced Civic. Or a top spec Focus. Which would you choose? Not a Fusion loss per se, but my point is that the base model is for suckers. Ford can claim it's the cheapest car in its class all it wants, but the incredible majority of the sales come in the mid- and high-spec versions, and that's where it loses out.



I can't decide what I like more. The fact that Ford's too cheap to offer a turn signal separate from the brake light, or the fact that Ford can't seem to work out how to make a manu-matic transmission for a "sporty" car.



Power ratings of midsize sedans using their top 6-cylinder engines
- Volkswagen Passat: 280
- Toyota Avalon: 268
- Toyota Camry: 268
- Nissan Altima: 265
- Nissan Maxima: 265
- Hyundai Azera: 263
- Pontiac Grand Prix: 260
- Mitsubishi Galant: 258
- Pontiac G6: 252
- Saturn Aura: 252
- Subaru Legacy: 245
- Honda Accord: 244
- Buick Lacrosse: 240
- Chevrolet Malibu: 240
- Chrysler Sebring: 235
- Hyundai Sonata: 235
- Chevrolet Impala: 233
- Ford Fusion: 221
- Mazda 6: 215
- Ford Five Hundred: 201
- Kia Optima: 185

So it comes in fourth to last, and two of the products behind it are made by Ford. And the other one is stretching the definition of 'midsize sedan.' Can't put it any clearer - the Fusion is unbelievably underpowered.



Regardless, that engine should've been in that car five years ago. That it wasn't reflects Ford's incompetence as a brand, and their products, the Fusion included.
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I've been going by.......
Monte Carlo
To be honest, the I4 SEL is a better value than the V6 SE. My mother prefers value over power, not an enthusiast.
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Monte Carlo
Ideally it would be new.
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Entry to standard models, 4 banger engines. Impressive research on V-6's and used car prices(in another post), but I didn't think that's what the buyer is looking for. ;)
 
a6m5
Entry to standard models, 4 banger engines. Impressive research on V-6's and used car prices(in another post), but I didn't think that's what the buyer is looking for. ;)
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All I'm asking is why not. It'd be nice to see someone not get seduced by the typical 'used cars are scary' thing, but it looks like that's exactly what's going to happen here, which is, as it always is, extremely unfortunate.
 
M5Power
All I'm asking is why not. It'd be nice to see someone not get seduced by the typical 'used cars are scary' thing, but it looks like that's exactly what's going to happen here, which is, as it always is, extremely unfortunate.
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I'm surprised to see you cheerleading for used cars considering the luck you had with yours.
 
M5Power
All I'm asking is why not. It'd be nice to see someone not get seduced by the typical 'used cars are scary' thing, but it looks like that's exactly what's going to happen here, which is, as it always is, extremely unfortunate.
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Not everyone has faith in used cars. Risks are very real.
 
skip0110
I'm surprised to see you cheerleading for used cars considering the luck you had with yours.
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There's a difference between a decade-old Swedish car with a high-pressure turbocharger and 90k on the clock and a year-old Japanese car with dealer demo miles. Unfortunately, it's a difference that people who buy new Corollas, Vibes, and Scions can't seem to grasp. :rolleyes:

I mean seriously - say she gets a Fusion new. In less than a year she'll have more miles than several of the cars I found on AutoTrader. Then it'll be just as "bad" as those cars. Then she'll wish she had a sunroof.
 
M5Power
There's a difference between a decade-old Swedish car with a high-pressure turbocharger and 90k on the clock and a year-old Japanese car with dealer demo miles. Unfortunately, it's a difference that people who buy new Corollas, Vibes, and Scions can't seem to grasp. :rolleyes:

I mean seriously - say she gets a Fusion new. In less than a year she'll have more miles than several of the cars I found on AutoTrader. Then it'll be just as "bad" as those cars. Then she'll wish she had a sunroof.
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Touche.
 
M5Power
I mean seriously - say she gets a Fusion new. In less than a year she'll have more miles than several of the cars I found on AutoTrader. Then it'll be just as "bad" as those cars. Then she'll wish she had a sunroof.
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Or she could end up with Camry that was owned some lady who happened to have a teenage driver in the household who treated the gas/brake pedals as a on/off pedals, wearing out the clutch, transmission, brakes. Engine should be good, right? Except I know too many people who are dumb enough to brag about how they never change the oil in their cars and it still runs great!

You know people like this, yes? :D
 
a6m5
Or she could end up with Camry that was owned some lady who happened to have a teenage driver in the household who treated the gas/brake pedals as a on/off pedals, wearing out the clutch, transmission, brakes. Engine should be good, right?
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A year-old Toyota with less than 10,000 miles - yes, and it should still be under heavy warranty!!

EDIT: by the way, I hate Toyotas, and I would buy the one I linked to. 4,800 miles and a sunroof?! You know that car does 0-60 quicker than a Miura, right?!

You know people like this, yes? :D
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No, but I've heard the horror stories - hell, I think I bought one.
 
That is a nice Camry. I love those ones with the body kits. 👍

On this new cars vs. used cars discussion, since you were pushing used, I was just countering to offset the balance. I think it's case by case.
 
a6m5
On this new cars vs. used cars discussion, since you were pushing used, I was just countering to offset the balance. I think it's case by case.
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I agree, although you can make more general statements with more recent, lower-mileage cars as those were.
 
Ok, M5, my mom REALLY doesn't care about sunroofs, V6s, or even leather, that is my dad. He is the one who would give it all to have a better driving car, he likes being involved. Heck, in the few years my mom has owned the car, she hasn't even used the manumatic function on the transmission yet!

Also, what may I ask is wrong with Scions? Whats so bad about bieng reliable, space efficient, and a tremendous value?

Also, with the thing about wanting more, my mom owns an entry level Sonata, she doesn't even have a power drivers seat! I'm trying to find her something with a little more features, while still bieng cheap. I don't think she'll care about not having a sunroof.
 
Monte Carlo
Ok, M5, my mom REALLY doesn't care about sunroofs, V6s, or even leather, that is my dad. He is the one who would give it all to have a better driving car, he likes being involved. Heck, in the few years my mom has owned the car, she hasn't even used the manumatic function on the transmission yet!
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You're again missing my point. Regardless of whether you care about sunroofs or not, you can have a sunroof - and a powerful V6, and maybe leather, and heated seats, and automatic climate control, and a CD changer - in addition to a significantly better car in every way. For the same price as a Fusion with, probably, hubcaps.

See my point?

Also, what may I ask is wrong with Scions? Whats so bad about bieng reliable, space efficient, and a tremendous value?
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:lol: :lol: :lol: Tremendous value. :lol: :lol: :lol:

By the way, you never addressed whether your mother would consider a pre-owned car. '05, '06, or '07.
 
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