My mom wants a new car.

[Tornado]

I can't understand how you guys are continually seduced by crap like the Ford Fusion.

Which perfectly explains why everyone in the automotive press loves the car. Oh wait, you have said before that the Ford 500, which is garbage for the exact reason the Taurus was garbage for 10 years, was better than the Fusion. Puts things into perspective.

And then you recommend against the new Camry - Motor Trend's car of the year. Lord.

Yes. Quite. Because Motor Trend has been such a quality publication in the past 6 years.
Did you perhaps read the Motor Trend article? It was biased garbage, where they kissed the ass of the Camry all day long, and essentially gave it to the car because it had its lovely and useless hybrid technology that they seem to love so much.

I can't figure out how you drive such an interesting car, look to buy interesting cars, and yet recommend and praise such insipid, crappy, trash heaps. Are the Big Three paying you to rep these cars?!

This coming from someone who wanted to buy one of the biggest trash heaps GM had made in the past decade in his own "Pick me a car" thread.



Anyways, if you allow yourself some wiggle room on the $22k limit, I highly suggest the Hyundai Azera. Starts at $24k, essentially loaded. It is also a full size car, and not a mid-sizer.
If no wiggle room is allowable, try the Sonata, the car that SHOULD have won Motor Trend's Car of the Year award this year. You can get a nearly maxed out example for $21k, and a fully maxed out example for 24k.

 

[a6m5]

What about a Versa? They look funky, but whats the deal with the space. Also, the SX4 has massive amounts of room.

EDIT: Oooh! Heres an idea... Kia Rondo?

I recommend Versa over SX4. Slightly less power, but fuel economy is considerably better, should get over 30mpg on highway. Entry level Versa has a really cheap looking interior, but "s" trim(I think it was like 1.8S) is really nice. It is a smaller car than the Sonata your mom currently drives though

Versa is priced really reasonably. You should be able to get a loaded one way under $20,000.

 

[YSSMAN]

If only the buying public was as happy with it as you.

I can't understand how you guys are continually seduced by crap like the Ford Fusion. I know there's a lot of hype, and I know you want it to be good (trust me, as someone whose favorite car of all time is the 1986 Taurus, I want it to be good to), but the fact of the matter is it's just not. And then you recommend against the new Camry - Motor Trend's car of the year. Lord.

I really don't understand your hang-up with the Fusion at all. A car that has received resounding praise from the buying public and the critical press, and yet it must be poo-pooed by a man who wanted a Buick Regal GS? Please... The car is what it is, a great value, and a great car with a blue-oval on the hood. When was the last time you could say that about a Ford? The Fusion offers a great amount of value, persona, and style against the other cars in its class. I'd easily say it is a better car than the Mazda 6 by which it is based upon, mind you this is all coming from a man who had once sworn a blood-oath against FoMoCo. If it woudln't hurt me to drive a Ford so much, I would be happy to say that a basic Fusion SE with a stick would be a great car for me. But, alas, that will probably never happen for me...

...Don't even bother brining up the Motor Trend/Camry issue. We all know that Toyota bought that award, especially when we compare tests of the Camry in other magazines compared to that of the one in MT. I've had some time with the car, and I have to say that it is one of the most underwhelming cars in recent memory that had absolutely no effect on me whatsoever in a positive way. If I wanted to drive a crappy car, it seems as though shopping at the Toyota dealer is the place to do it these days, as this car seems to falter on every point of "greatness" that it once had.

God.

I can't figure out how you drive such an interesting car, look to buy interesting cars, and yet recommend and praise such insipid, crappy, trash heaps. Are the Big Three paying you to rep these cars?!

I think you're missing the point of this thread, sir. Carlo's Mom obviously doesn't need a race-car or anything near-sporty, so why would I go about recommending something like a Passat R36 or Nissan Altima 3.5 SE? Simple, it doesn't meet her needs, and thereby presuming that she is looking for something inexpensive and relatively easy to drive and operate, why not go for the "average" cars here in North America? Yes, Impalas are dime-a-dozen and generally aren't noted for being anywhere near exciting, but when you're on a budget and looking for a GOOD car for not much money, I can't think of too many cars that offer that much for that little in price.

I love my quirky Volkswagens and Nissans just as much as the other guy, and in most circumstances they are what I would want to drive, but that may not be the case for Carlo's Mom. For God's sake, she is replacing a Sonata, not a SLR...

As for me constantly giving ups to American cars, I'm not sure why that is a problem. I'm happy to call the bluff on models like the Camry and Accord (although, that is still a good bet there Monte), but it isn't like I don't bash cars like the Sebring and DTS often enough. American cars are what they are, reasonable alternatives to the Japanese and European offerings, and although there are a few shortcomings in some circumstances, they often make up for them in the overall value of the car not only reflected in price, but in long-term parts replacement and insurance costs as well.

I'm happy to be one of the few remaining American car guys around here. I don't like to play kiss-ass with Toyota and Honda all day, but that doesn't mean that I hate everything foreign. It has been quite evident that I'm happy to play kiss-ass with VAG and BMW too, but just like Ford and GM in many respects, their products deserve the praise that they get in my eyes.

 

[Wolfe]

Man, I'd give you guys +Rep, Toronado and YSSMAN, but I need to give more to others first. 👍

Yeah, but there is slow, and then there is holy-crap-I-am-being-overtaken-by-a-10-speed slow.

The Fit falls in the latter category. 0-60 times don't tell the whole story, I'd agree, but you want to feel safe when when merging onto the highway.

In terms of acceleration, the Fit is a bit above average pretty much everywhere in the world.

If the Germans feel safe merging onto the Autobahn in their Peugeot 106s and Volkswagen Foxes, why should Carlo's mom be worried about merging onto our much-slower-paced freeways in a car that can reach 65mph with half as much effort?

The Fit is more than fast enough to meet Carlo's mom's needs, especially since she's indifferent to speed. In fact, anything you can find on a dealer lot in this country is more than fast enough.

Speed is a non-issue, and shouldn't be brought up with any car recommendation in this thread.

 

[1X83Z]

Which perfectly explains why everyone in the automotive press loves the car. Oh wait, you have said before that the Ford 500, which is garbage for the exact reason the Taurus was garbage for 10 years, was better than the Fusion. Puts things into perspective.

Actually I quite clearly stated that the particular Five Hundred that was shown was better than the Fusion. Reading helps. In reality, both cars are among the worst sedans on the U.S. market.

Did you perhaps read the Motor Trend article? It was biased garbage, where they kissed the ass of the Camry all day long, and essentially gave it to the car because it had its lovely and useless hybrid technology that they seem to love so much.

In fact, I have the issue next to me. You're right - they did kiss its ass. Maybe that's because they named it Car of the Year? And wow, you think hybrids are useless - seems like opinion to me. In fact, in your above statement you alledge no impropriety or misjudgement on Motor Trend's part. So I concur completely.

This coming from someone who wanted to buy one of the biggest trash heaps GM had made in the past decade in his own "Pick me a car" thread.

We've made it personal because we've run out of factual information to challenge me on? Man that happens a lot to me.

If no wiggle room is allowable, try the Sonata, the car that SHOULD have won Motor Trend's Car of the Year award this year.

You want the Sonata, which came out in 2006, to win the 2007 Motor Trend car of the year award?

In that case, I nominate the Chrysler minivans, the original Toyota Camry, and the '86 Ford Taurus.

 

[Tornado]

Actually I quite clearly stated that the particular Five Hundred that was shown was better than the Fusion. Reading helps. In reality, both cars are among the worst sedans on the U.S. market.

I would go back and look, because it wouldn't surprise me if your overstating what you said, but I really couldn't care less.

In fact, I have the issue next to me. You're right - they did kiss its ass. Maybe that's because they named it Car of the Year? And wow, you think hybrids are useless - seems like opinion to me.

Hmm. Lets see.

Total piece of crap.

yet recommend and praise such insipid, crappy, trash heaps.

In reality, both cars are among the worst sedans on the U.S. market.

Seems like opinions to me. What was that whole arguement about taking opinions as fact? I seem to recall you advocating that you didn't do such a thing.
I can back up my claims with facts and figures. Can you back up your claims (which pretty much everyone in the automotive press disagree with) with factual information? And NO, horsepower numbers do not count as such, because not everyone gives a crap.

In fact, in your above statement you alledge no impropriety or misjudgement on Motor Trend's part. So I concur completely.

Actually one would think that the phrase "gave it to the car because it had its lovely and useless hybrid technology that they seem to love so much" would imply both impropriety and misjudgement on Motor Trend's part. To quote the article:
"A serious competitor at the bottom end of the market (inline four), but not enough at the top (small V6 and no hybrid) to move past Toyota or to be our winner."
So, they gave it to Toyota because it had hybrid crap.

We've made it personal because we've run out of factual information to challenge me on? Man that happens a lot to me.

Oh goody. Lets play the M5Power blame game. Lets see: you insulted YSSMAN's taste in cars, despite pretty much deciding on a car that is far worse in pretty much nevery standard. Either that is hypocrisy, or you have your eyes set on the best Buick ever built.

You want the Sonata, which came out in 2006, to win the 2007 Motor Trend car of the year award?

Oops. So sorry. I meant the Kia Optima.

In that case, I nominate the Chrysler minivans, the original Toyota Camry, and the '86 Ford Taurus.

How about you nominate the Buick Regal, while your at it.

 

[1X83Z]

I really don't understand your hang-up with the Fusion at all. A car that has received resounding praise from the buying public and the critical press, and yet it must be poo-pooed by a man who wanted a Buick Regal GS?

Once again, I like how we go personal when we have no facts. And speaking of no facts, you've done a marvelous job of presenting truly no facts in your post:

The car is what it is, a great value, and a great car

The Fusion offers a great amount of value, persona, and style against the other cars in its class.

I'd easily say it is a better car than the Mazda 6

a basic Fusion SE with a stick would be a great car for me.

Since your post was devoid of facts, let me offer some.

That manual Fusion SE you want runs $18200, and you're smart, so you're going to want the $600 anti-lock brakes. Destination is $700, so the total is $19500. Ouch. A Nissan Versa 1.8SL with a manual transmission is $15100 including destination, and with my $4400 left over, I'm going to get keyless starting, steering wheel audio controls, Bluetooth ($700), a sunroof ($600), and anti-lock brakes ($250). Now I've got about $2900 left over.

So comparing. The Fusion wins the power game (160 vs. 122) however because Ford seems to have trouble putting power to the wheels, it strongly loses the acceleration game, reaching 60mph about 0.5sec after the Versa. As for spec, the vehicles are really similar, although my Versa has that keyless starter, a sunroof, and an iPod hookup. And it leaves me $2900 for a TomTom navigation system, an iPod for that hookup, or a down payment on a real car.

At this point you're saying, 'Doug you suck, go die.' Well that's a fair point, but my Versa gets 30/34mpg, compared to 23/31 in the Fusion. And since Ford is such a master of packaging, the Fusion has less cargo room than the Versa, in addition to less head room for both front and rear passengers.

So to sum up the Versa's cheaper with more stuff, it's quicker, it gets better fuel economy, and it's got more interior and cargo room. The Fusion wins in literally no categories. And you chose the best Fusion; imagine what I would've done had you chosen the V6 model.

...Don't even bother brining up the Motor Trend/Camry issue. We all know that Toyota bought that award,

Do we know that? Because I feel like you're not only speculating, but falsely accusing. That doesn't pass for knowledge down here.

I think you're missing the point of this thread, sir. Carlo's Mom obviously doesn't need a race-car or anything near-sporty, so why would I go about recommending something like a Passat R36 or Nissan Altima 3.5 SE?

Of course, I never recommended either of those vehicles, but your point is taken. My rebuttal is simply: no, she doesn't NEED something good, but since her budget includes enough to buy a good car, why settle on crap like the Impala? You've focused on meeting her needs - I've focused on meeting and exceeding her needs. Plain and simple.

I can't think of too many cars that offer that much for that little in price.

Go up and find the posts I've made with the sub-10k mile used cars in it.

 

[1X83Z]

Seems like opinions to me.

Unsurprisingly, you've missed my point, which was that you presented two reasons that the Camry shouldn't have been Car of the Year: that you hate hybrids, and that Motor Trend loved the car. My point, which seemed pretty clear to me, was that those really aren't convincing reasons as to why the car shouldn't be Car of the Year. I haven't got any problem with opinions - hell, that's what this thread is about.

So, they gave it to Toyota because it had hybrid crap.

Your point being...?

Oh goody. Lets play the M5Power blame game. Lets see: you insulted YSSMAN's taste in cars, despite pretty much deciding on a car that is far worse in pretty much nevery standard. Either that is hypocrisy, or you have your eyes set on the best Buick ever built.

May I just ask - for the pure joy of it - what you drive? I mean I know it's something probably 20 years old and incapable of going above 60mph, but I just want to know.

And also - despite the fact that it's not relevant, and that you're using it just because you can't disprove me in the facts department, I should point out that the decision in my recent 'what car?' thread was for an Acura, not a Buick, and I have decided against purchasing either car.

Oops. So sorry. I meant the Kia Optima.

You feel the Kia Optima should've won the Motor Trend Car of the Year award.

Let's say that again for effect.

You feel the Kia Optima should've won the Motor Trend Car of the Year award.

You understand the vehicle is the only midsize sedan not offering an engine 3 liters or larger. And that it's the only one that hasn't got 200 or more horsepower. Right? Actually it's comical - the specs, right down to the exterior size, are essentially mirror images of my dad's '98 Toyota Camry, though my dad's Camry has more power.

My dad's Camry of course also has a better interior than this:

Car of the Year. What a joke.

 

[skip0110]

My dad's Camry of course also has a better interior than this:

Car of the Year. What a joke.

Eh?

 

[Tornado]

Unsurprisingly, you've missed my point, which was that you presented two reasons that the Camry shouldn't have been Car of the Year: that you hate hybrids, and that Motor Trend loved the car.

Unsurprisingly, you missed my point:
That the inclusion of its hybrid tech was no reason to give Car of the Year to the Camry over a couple of other far better cars, not only including the Optima; and that it was painfully obvious that it was the only reason Motor Trend did so.

May I just ask - for the pure joy of it - what you drive? I mean I know it's something probably 20 years old and incapable of going above 60mph, but I just want to know.

I drive a 1994 S-10 Blazer. Far removed from 20 years old, and very capable of going over 60 MPH. I use it to go off road and get to and from school and my job. I couldn't give two ****s how fast it can get to 60, or how fast it can run a slalom. I bought it from my parents because it was good off-road.

And also - despite the fact that it's not relevant, and that you're using it just because you can't disprove me in the facts department, I should point out that the decision in my recent 'what car?' thread was for an Acura, not a Buick, and I have decided against purchasing either car.

Actually, it is quite relavent. You advised against YSSMAN alternative of buying Impala because it was an insipid piece of trash. The fact that you even considered buying a Buick Regal shows that you have a double standard, if only to piss people off.

You feel the Kia Optima should've won the Motor Trend Car of the Year award.

Let's say that again for effect.

You feel the Kia Optima should've won the Motor Trend Car of the Year award.

And YOUR point is?

You understand the vehicle is the only midsize sedan not offering an engine 3 liters or larger. And that it's the only one that hasn't got 200 or more horsepower. Right?

And you understand that not everyone gives a crap, right?
​

Actually it's comical - the specs, right down to the exterior size, are essentially mirror images of my dad's '98 Toyota Camry, though my dad's Camry has more power.

Oh, I'm sorry. You have seemed to misplaced your point.

Car of the Year. What a joke.

Yes. Let's not take opinions as fact or anything. That would be against your morals.

 

[TopHat]

Oh for the love of god. Stop it now. M5, I really LOVE the way you start a nice little fight because you are so damn stubborn and can't seem to accept anyones opinion. Why don't you go start a flame fest somewhere else, and leave this thread to automotive discussion. YOU ARE NOT HELPING.

 

[1X83Z]

Oh for the love of god. Stop it now. M5, I really LOVE the way you start a nice little fight because you are so damn stubborn and can't seem to accept anyones opinion. Why don't you go start a flame fest somewhere else, and leave this thread to automotive discussion. YOU ARE NOT HELPING.

Who started the argument again?

 

[TopHat]

You did.

"Arguing with you is like running a race in the Special Olympics, you might win, but in the end, you are still a retard"

 

[Tornado]

Hmmm.

Are the Big Three paying you to rep these cars?!

So, you.

 

[1X83Z]

You did.

I made an innocent post describing my feelings toward the Fusion, which I have since backed up with ten thousand facts after other people challenged it. It's not my fault the people here don't want to accept that their precious American car might not be all they want it to be.

Furthermore, I've made more good recommendations than anyone else in this thread, and at least the discussion here has given you some food for thought about a possible future car.

Regardless, out of respect for your wishes, I've moved the argument to another thread for those who want to participate.

"Arguing with you is like running a race in the Special Olympics, you might win, but in the end, you are still a retard"

That's really not funny.

 

[TopHat]

Your "innocent post" was borderline trolling. That is all.

 

[YSSMAN]

Okay, lets draw the lines here and calm down a bit, as it is quite clear that neither side is really going to make points that are going to win-out over the other. Clearly what it comes down to is what Carlo's Mom wants, not us, arguably blinded by our own personal aspirations of performance and such.

I believe that the point still stands that there are a lot of really great choices out there for less than $22K brand new, and unfortunately for your (Carlo's) Mom, she will have to wade through the various makes and models to find the car she likes.

...If we can pull out one major positive here, it is that these cars are all great in their own respects, and you would have to be trying really hard to find a car that wouldn't please...

Although I do think we need a bit of clarification: Are we looking for a compact (Rabbit, Fit, Cobalt), mid-size (Passat, Accord, Aura), or something bigger (Azera, etc...)?

 

[franz]

How about another Hyundai for your mom?
Since she needs extra space, how about the all-new Santa Fe?
I know it is a SUV, but I hear good thing about it
and she can get good warranty too

 

[TopHat]

Just as long it has more than 14 cubic feet of trunk room, with a 60/40 rear folding seat.

 

[///M-Spec]

Very low signal to noise ratio in this thread.

Break it up, gentlemen. It's time to turn this thread around or have it locked.

Monte, my suggestion to you to help improve the quality of the responses in this thread is to make a list of the top priorities your mother wants in her next vehicle.

For example;

1. Interior space (driver and passengers)
2. Safety
3. Features and amenities
4. Fit and finish
5. Price

This should clear any confusion over what your mother wants and what she doesn't.


M

 

[TopHat]

Ok then, priorities will be added to the first post.

 

[YSSMAN]

With what you are looking at, there is a pretty wide range of cars to go for. Again I would care to nominate models like the Saturn Aura and Honda Accord first and foremost, however if you want to get a "screaming" deal, the Chevrolet Impala LT3 is probably a best-bet in price, reliably, size, and yes even quality (rated very high, improved over its predecessors).

 

[TopHat]

I'm trying to avoid an Accord, by all means a great car, but its kinda has a dated interior and a horribly bland exterior. If I was to even consider an Accord, It would have to look like the Coupe Concept.

 

[YSSMAN]

I understand where you're coming from. The car is very dated, but it doesn't make it a bad car per-se. I still like the coupe, a lot, as it pretty much is a somewhat decent "replacement" (if you will) for the Prelude. IMO, the Accord is a good all-around car for most people, and despite it's age, I would easily pick it over most of the competition out there... However the Aura is impressive, and the next Malibu should be just as good as well, and I'm interested in seeing how the Avenger turns out (although I'm not keeping my hopes up).

...Too bad my Volkswagens cost so much, as I would love to just go and throw-in the Passat "Value Edition" and 2.0T models, but they don't quite meet the "cheap" factor your Mom is probably looking for. Maybe a Jetta Wolfsburg is in order?

2007 Jetta Wolfsburg Edition: $20,535 MSRP (DSG)

- 2.5L I5; 150 BHP
- 22 MPG city, 30 MPG highway
- 6-speed DSG "automatic"
- 16" alloy wheels (wearing 205/55R16 H tires, all-season)
- Safety Equipment including: 4-wheel disc brakes with ABS, traction control, stability control, dual front air-bags, tire pressure monitor
- heated, leather seats
- power sun roof
- power everything (I think seats are an option)

Nicely equipped (without the body kit and spoiler) will run you a listed price of $21,425 according to Volkswagen USA. Only problem I believe would be insurance prices (maybe), but they are pretty nice cars that are bolted together pretty well, and last quite a while. Maybe be worth a look...

 

[TopHat]

Well, the thing is its kinda small though. Maybe I can show my mom a slightly used Passat or even an A3....

 

[YSSMAN]

An A3 is going to be essentially the same size as the Jetta, given that you're buying a glorified MKV GTI, or essentially a hatchback Jetta. I can completely appreciate the addition of a hatchback, but I mean, it isn't a dealbreaker (or maker?) in this case. The trunk is surprisingly big in the Jetta for such a "small" car (it actually isn't that much smaller than the Aura/Accord crowd), and interior room is quite comfortable.

 

[mwoodski]

I say go for the Aura.

 

[slidesquad#1]

I'm trying to avoid an Accord, by all means a great car, but its kinda has a dated interior and a horribly bland exterior. If I was to even consider an Accord, It would have to look like the Coupe Concept.

Just out of curiosity, would your mum really care, seeing how she's just gonna use it as basic transportation?

 

[TopHat]

I have to like it too.

 

[TopHat]

Well I'm back, and I have some new ideas!

So I was thinking about a slightly ( less than 10k miles ) used Volvo V50 or a new PT Cruiser. I've always liked the way both of them looked, and they are fair cars.