Polyphony Digital's General Shift in Philosophy -Hardcore fans UNITE.

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NeuroFiZT

NeuroFiZT

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NeuroFiZT
After much consideration, it seems to me that PD have undergone a general shift in attitude towards their games since GT4.

Preamble: I love Gran Turismo. I've been a fan since the first GT came out, and EVERY GT since then has been the sole reason of me buying a PS3.

I used to respect PD because no other developer out there had the attention to detail they did, and while others were always just trying to make a buck off of an over-hyped product, PD always kept it real, and just released great racing sims.

Now, it's safe to say that PD have shifted their focus to marketing hype, generating rumors, and generally just exploiting their hard-core fan base.

Examples:

Remember how long it took you to finish (100%) GT4? Remember how you had to grind MINIMALLY compared to GT5? Remember the diversity and number of events? I worked HARD finishing GT4, and it was VERY satisfying.

With GT5, it's different:

Instead of making the career mode complex, evolving, challenging, and diverse. (Like GT4 for example), they made it relatively simple, repetitive, easier, and grind-happy. (I'M PRACTICALLY DONE WITH GT5... if you factor out my grinding, I would've been done a while ago).

Still not convinced that PD is short-changing it's fans???

A perfect piece of evidence is in one of the MAJOR parts of update 1.05: you can now RESTART a race RIGHT AFTER you've just finished it!!!! WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT THAT?!!?!? I JUST FINISHED THIS RACE!!!!!!!!!

What's worse is that people are applauding this..... as if it's an improvement to the game.

If you care about the future of the GT series, and call yourself a true hardcore GT fan, you will use this thread to remind PD of how great they were, and how they should go back to that philosophy if they hope to hold on to this AMAZING fan base that is the GTPLANET community!

So, let's have it. Hard-core fans, list your nostalgia on how the previous GT games where better than GT5.......... More comprehensive, less insulting to gamers, and just generally.... finished games. My hope is that you'll help me divert the attention of PD to this. WE HAVE A SAY HERE. If we just sit back and take it, GT6 will only be worse.

Let's hear it.

-A hardcore GT fan since 1997.
 
I registered just to reply to this post - **** yeah, this man knows what he is talking about. I agree with everything listed above; well said!
 
Yay! Another thread about earlier gran turismo games being better!
 
I've been a hardcore GT fan since the 1st release myself and yet I don't entirely agree on everything. I do however agree on the leveling system in GT5 is repetitive and a tedious to say. I am happy they are releasing frequent updates that add/improve the game. They are at least listening to a majority of their customers. I for one enjoy having the ability to restart the race right after I finish, this saves me a lot of time. Since I grind a lot (due to the leveling system in GT5) in order to move up the ladder. PD and Kaz can't please everyone, that's impossible, but at least they are doing great with the updates and I'm very appreciative of that.
 
NeuroFiZT
Remember how long it took you to finish (100%) GT4? Remember how you had to grind MINIMALLY compared to GT5? Remember the diversity and number of events? I worked HARD finishing GT4, and it was VERY satisfying.

With GT5, it's different:

Instead of making the career mode complex, evolving, challenging, and diverse. (Like GT4 for example), they made it relatively simple, repetitive, easier, and grind-happy. (I'M PRACTICALLY DONE WITH GT5... if you factor out my grinding, I would've been done a while ago).

Still not convinced that PD is short-changing it's fans???

A perfect piece of evidence is in one of the MAJOR parts of update 1.05: you can now RESTART a race RIGHT AFTER you've just finished it!!!! WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT THAT?!!?!? I JUST FINISHED THIS RACE!!!!!!!!!

What's worse is that people are applauding this..... as if it's an improvement to the game.
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You do realize that GT1 was also absurdly short, no? And I remember doing more than my fair share of grinding, particularly in GT2. GT All Stars, Super Speedway. 50000 to win, Mines Evo VI prize car. And the 80's sports car cup (Think that is what series it was) on Tahiti Road that had the 125000 resale Skyline Silhouette Race Car? Haven't played the game for ages, but I still remember that. That is how much grinding I did.

Remember the prize wheel in GT3, how often times you would get a prize car you weren't aiming for, so you had to do the series all over? Only to find out that your LM Edition race car you just got is in some putrid color that makes you wanna vomit. Do it again.

Heck, I even remember grinding for a RM Viper GTS as my third car ever in GT1. Doing the same race over and over again is part of the series and always has been.

And the restart right after finishing is brilliant. You even mention grinding, all this does is speed up grinding dramatically. No more load screens to sit through, plus if the days really only do change during load screens you can keep that rare car in the dealership while you amass the required funds.

-A hardcore GT fan since 1997.
 
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digitalic
I've been a hardcore GT fan since the 1st release myself and yet I don't entirely agree on everything. I do however agree on the leveling system in GT5 is repetitive and a tedious to say. I am happy they are releasing frequent updates that add/improve the game. They are at least listening to a majority of their customers. I for one enjoy having the ability to restart the race right after I finish, this saves me a lot of time. Since I grind a lot (due to the leveling system in GT5) in order to move up the ladder. PD and Kaz can't please everyone, that's impossible, but at least they are doing great with the updates and I'm very appreciative of that.
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I see what you're saying... and I think we agree on everything actually. See, they didn't address the problem with the 'restart race button'. They just made it slightly easier to swallow it, nudging you to accept grinding. WE SHOULD NOT ACCEPT THIS. There's no "it's better than nothing" here.

We waited 5 years for this release..... and it's not even a finished game.

My purpose isn't to start another thread that's just complaining about what I don't like. My purpose is to direct PD's attention to the fact that it's hard-core fans will simply not take this. As far as I'm concerned, GT5 is not what I'd expect from Kaz, OR PD. If you call yourself a hard-core fan, and would like to see the PD that we know and love, speak out! They read this, and so you can make a difference here.

For example: I WILL NOT PRE-ORDER GT6 WHEN IT'S ANNOUNCED. I WILL WAIT FOR THE REVIEW, AND THEN DECIDE.

I never had this kind of cynicism toward PD and the GT series. But now because of GT5, I do.... and guess what?? If someone else comes out with a comprehensive game that's not half-effort...... I may just buy that instead. I don't like being jerked around after being a loyal fan and customer since '97.


Don't just take it because you've been starving for 5 years and they just threw you a saltine cracker..... demand the feast they promised.
 
When online is fully developed that should change things. For me it is more annoying the thing about having to unlock cars and tracks, not being able to save tuning configurations, and in general the lack of control of what you want to do with the game.

In my opinion those are the things that are undoing the "sim" reputation this game had. Physics are really nice this time, though.
 
No. Simple as that.

"oh my god! You can restart a race just after you finished it! The horror!"

This is as nonsensical as it gets.

I care about the future of the GT series, and I will use this thread to remind you that you're spouting a large bunch of nonsense. Anyone that doesn't see how GT5 is a LARGE improvement over it's predecessors simply lacks a functioning brain and is completely blinded by illogical nostalgia.
 
I have to agree with you buddy, I think PD showed us exactly how much they appreciate us hardcore fans. I think people will still complain about PD when they listen when the same fans said there not being rewarded with enough money for races, now they did that and your not happy with it? I just dont get this forum. Honestly, constant improvements is what Im looking forward to and 1.05 was a perfect addition.
 
GT5 is trying to focus towards online play. This is about the 5th thread I've repeated this but ONLINE IS THE FUTURE.

Look at other examples.
Mario Cart is STILL original priced. How old is it and it's still popular enough to command top dollar? Why? Because of ONLINE play.

COD has very, very small offline gameplay. You don't prestige up unless you go online.

Red Dead Redemption. Very cool offline BUT you "legend" up online and get gold guns/special mounts online.

GT6 won't be any better for offline play. If anything it will be smaller. Those days are gone.
 
Abriael
No. Simple as that.

"oh my god! You can restart a race just after you finished it! The horror!"

This is as nonsensical as it gets.

I care about the future of the GT series, and I will use this thread to remind you that you're spouting a large bunch of nonsense. Anyone that doesn't see how GT5 is a LARGE improvement over it's predecessors simply lacks a functioning brain and is completely blinded by illogical nostalgia.
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Wow is that really necessary? I will refrain from commenting on your insults. That's just wrong.

And actually, it is horrifying to me that a company would EXPECT it's fans to keep repeating the same thing over and over. Why? I love working hard to get ahead in games... and sure, a LITTLE grinding is fine... if you're trying to save up to buy something you want. But grinding for HOURS just to get to the next level of the game when you've already cleared everything else? Yes, it's HORROR that a developer would expect us to be OK with that.

Know what's even more horrifying? That there are people that ACCEPT this as a given.

Please, I kindly ask you to try and show more respect next time. I'm trying to stimulate a constructive discussion here. It's OK if you don't agree... but try to articulate your thoughts about you not agreeing instead of hurling insults: that's no good for anyone's cause.
 
NeuroFiZT
Wow is that really necessary? I will refrain from commenting on your insults. That's just wrong.

And actually, it is horrifying to me that a company would EXPECT it's fans to keep repeating the same thing over and over. Why? I love working hard to get ahead in games... and sure, a LITTLE grinding is fine... if you're trying to save up to buy something you want. But grinding for HOURS just to get to the next level of the game when you've already cleared everything else? Yes, it's HORROR that a developer would expect us to be OK with that.

Know what's even more horrifying? That there are people that ACCEPT this as a given.

Please, I kindly ask you to try and show more respect next time. I'm trying to stimulate a constructive discussion here. It's OK if you don't agree... but try to articulate your thoughts about you not agreeing instead of hurling insults: that's no good for anyone's cause.
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lol I agree with the insults. Don't be such a baby.
 
NeuroFiZT
WE SHOULD NOT ACCEPT THIS.
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And here was I thinking that the way it goes in a market economy is that they offer you a product and you choose whether to buy it or not.

You are not, as you seem to think, entitled to anything but what you paid for.

Don't like it? Tough. You bought it.
 
Maybe just maybe the testers were first time gt players and because they didn't know what to do they had to repeat races to gold everything before they moved to the next race so they didn't uncover the "grinding" issue everyone complains about.
I can remember grinding gt2 I think on high speed ring to get a ceberera speed 12 with 500000 when sold and it was only a three lap race
 
NeuroFiZT
Wow is that really necessary? I will refrain from commenting on your insults. That's just wrong.

And actually, it is horrifying to me that a company would EXPECT it's fans to keep repeating the same thing over and over. Why? I love working hard to get ahead in games... and sure, a LITTLE grinding is fine... if you're trying to save up to buy something you want. But grinding for HOURS just to get to the next level of the game when you've already cleared everything else? Yes, it's HORROR that a developer would expect us to be OK with that.

Know what's even more horrifying? That there are people that ACCEPT this as a given.

Please, I kindly ask you to try and show more respect next time. I'm trying to stimulate a constructive discussion here. It's OK if you don't agree... but try to articulate your thoughts about you not agreeing instead of hurling insults: that's no good for anyone's cause.
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A true fan wouldnt make such a harsh claim over a game thats kept your entertained for 13 years. I mean I was only a kid when this game was released. Your just showing the lowest form of complaint and you wont win over any long time fans with this non sense. PD are showing that they are listening... thats what us fans care about. Your arguing the lonhetivity of grinding in the game, I personally think increasing credits helped ease this with the ability of buying almost all cars we love along the way.

Online is the future! 👍
 
NeuroFiZT
Please, I kindly ask you to try and show more respect next time.
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Considering that your post shows no respect for the work of a whole company, made of several tens of individuals, why would you ask respect for yourself?

It's always massively funny how trolls get all bent out of shape when it's their turn to be on the receiving end.
 
marcandre187
lol I agree with the insults. Don't be such a baby.
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You can agree with the intent... I just don't see why you'd agree with the insults.

It was my hope that we could have a discussion in this thread. Seems like there's not much chance of that.

Future sure looks bright for GT6................
 
Gotta disagree with the hating on the restart option... the legitimate reason to want to restart is noteably in license tests. If you finish the test you will have to load several screens to get another try. This means in all the license tests I have done the hundreds of times I come up a fraction of a second short I have to reload multiple screens to try again when my goal is simply to try again and again as fast as I can so I can get the gold.

If I screw up bad, I will just ram a wall and force a restart easily, but when you are close to gold you have to ride it through and see if you win... I am glad those forced reloads are gone now.

Also during normal races, if I don't get first, I will probably want to try again right after. I can always restart the race instead of finishing but then I miss a lot of XP and Cr (which I have done many times because I didn't want to wait for the course to reload).
 
I'm sick of starting 7th. What happened to qualifying? What happened to being able to drive the track right before the race to see what tune you would need, what gear ratios for the straights? What about changing individual gear ratios? I'm a big boy, I can pick them myself. I want more control, not less.

Why are some tune up items unable to be removed? If I take the seats out of a car I can put them back in. Most things that can be done can be undone. Also, adding ballast weight to a car again would be nice. I'd like to be able to restore a car back to its factory form.
 
Abriael
Considering that your post shows no respect for the work of a whole company, made of several tens of individuals, why would you ask respect for yourself?

It's always massively funny how trolls get all bent out of shape when it's their turn to be on the receiving end.
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I think that buying all their products since 1997, in addition to buying a console just because of their products shows respect for the company, thanks very much (this was in fact in the original post).

Point is, this thread is not about me, or you. It's about whether or not we think PD has undergone a shift in emphasis in their games... namely, from creating quality content to hyping a game and then releasing it 5 years later, after many delays, largely unfinished.

If you don't have anything to contribute to this discussion, then don't. I, for one, will not waste my time replying anymore.
 
The restart button is helpfull because you don't always win. And having to go to the main page to just reload the race is annoying.

About the game being dumbed down, we have karts, Nascar, Loeb, Vettel, point-to-point races, which for me shows how much PD cares, plus it offers more variety in gameplay than ever before.
 
Abriael
Considering that your post shows no respect for the work of a whole company, made of several tens of individuals, why would you ask respect for yourself?

It's always massively funny how trolls get all bent out of shape when it's their turn to be on the receiving end.
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+1 👍

No one is going to keep a thread full of non sense alive and theres nothing to discuss, your alone on this one mate.

GT5 1.05 has restored the faith in PD for me. Keep these innovations coming PD, I love it!!!

:gtplanet: for life
 
Devedander
Gotta disagree with the hating on the restart option... the legitimate reason to want to restart is noteably in license tests. If you finish the test you will have to load several screens to get another try. This means in all the license tests I have done the hundreds of times I come up a fraction of a second short I have to reload multiple screens to try again when my goal is simply to try again and again as fast as I can so I can get the gold.

If I screw up bad, I will just ram a wall and force a restart easily, but when you are close to gold you have to ride it through and see if you win... I am glad those forced reloads are gone now.

Also during normal races, if I don't get first, I will probably want to try again right after. I can always restart the race instead of finishing but then I miss a lot of XP and Cr (which I have done many times because I didn't want to wait for the course to reload).
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Yup. I see your point. Restart is certainly useful for licenses and restarting if you don't get 1st place, etc.... what I have a problem with is people applauding it for it's 'grinding facilitation'. I just don't see why grinding should be an accepted part of the game. Imho, it shouldn't. Thanks for the contribution, 'dander, always a pleasure chatting.
 
KidCastro
+1 👍

No one is going to keep a thread full of non sense alive and theres nothing to discuss, your alone on this one mate.

GT5 1.05 has restored the faith in PD for me. Keep these innovations coming PD, I love it!!!

:gtplanet: for life
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Great, I'm glad you're leaving the thread. Thanks for your insightful comments.
 
rabble rabble rabble

Online XP / Credits = Win. As long as they give enough of them for each race then it may not even feel like grinding but rather having fun playing with your friends...sounds good to me!

Online multiplayer is the future of all games. The sooner people get with it the better for all.
 
I disagree NeuroFiZT

GT4 was quanity, not quality. I never got 100% because there was something like 70 rally events. Most of them were the same race/track with 3 levels of difficulty, easy, medium, and hard.

Then all the useless one make races (See one make A-spec races in GT5)

If your so worried about the lack of A-spec races in GT5, go to arcade mode and setup your custom race.

The hype and rumors is because of the age of the internet. Every idea PD was working on was revealed and when alot of it (like tempature changes and weather forecasts) didn't make it in for whatever reason people got disappointed.

I am a "hardcore" GT fan. I've been there since GT1. GT5 is, IMO, easily the best one yet and will only get better with more udpates.

To me the only thing that PD has strayed away from its roots is making license tests an after thought and adding the rediculous pass 15 cars in one lap challenges.

Other then that GT5 is GT and I am very sattisfied with the game now that credits and XP are available online.
 
I always thought Hardcore fans were the ones to accept grinding? XD

As with the latest update, we are shown that game content can be updated easily with new events. Way better than GT4.

The money and XP problem is also being fixed with online races paying out $$ and XP (although I don't know how much since I have not tried it). The seasonal events also payout a substantial amount of money and XP for very little racing which is good for leveling up. And for a short amount of time, more $$ from races which always helps.

I can understand if you want to get to level 40 quickly but then, why? As mentioned, there is online available which is the fun part when future updates get it right. Private rooms, car restrictions etc. GT4 don't have that either.

Add nice graphics, nice premium cars, track editor.. all which GT4 doesn't have either.

I know what the people who keep on complaining about GT5 having not enough content compared to GT4.
Yes, PD should just make an exact copy of GT4 but with updated graphics. But if they did..... imagine the fury of erm some other hardcore fans that will scream that what!! this ain't no different from GT4!! I have seen this race before!! Same same same......
oh dear, when will it end :-D
 
So, lettme get this straight, your complaining that its easier to restart races..if you say...fail them and don't manage a palce your happy with?

Hate to disappoint you your not some gt freedom fighter there is no uprising to be had over the horror of easy restarts. :rolleyes:

Also fyi I'm level 20 with over 70 cars and haven't had to grind once thus far, only the ones I did to get a better placement in a few licenses/special events. Also go ahead and don't preorder gt6, I have a feeling they will do fine without your money, less server lag for us too.
 
You know what it seems like with games these days....It seems like when they add online multiplayer to the mix the single player part of the game gets DUMBED down A LOT. That's with almost ALL games i have noticed. GT5 is the first(FULL) GT game with online and it seems that the single player mode has suffered. I sure hope this "trend" of single player suffering will come to and end soon.....
 
Supercheyenne
GT5 is trying to focus towards online play. This is about the 5th thread I've repeated this but ONLINE IS THE FUTURE.
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Ok great, there's a good comment. I agree with this. Online modes are indeed the future... and I'm excited about that but.........

Supercheyenne
GT6 won't be any better for offline play. If anything it will be smaller. Those days are gone.
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I don't see why this has to be true. Why is there an online/offline trade-off? Sure, online's the future.... but why does that mean that the days of a "career race driver" mode are gone? I don't see the relationship. Besides, isn't the 'racing career' part of the simulation?
 
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