Polyphony Digital's General Shift in Philosophy -Hardcore fans UNITE.

[KidCastro]

Great, I'm glad you're leaving the thread. Thanks for your insightful comments.

I see your new here, take some time to read some threads before being smart. This place is full of friendly people and we have read our fair share of complaints, most we agree with.

 

[Tharain]

For example: I WILL NOT PRE-ORDER GT6 WHEN IT'S ANNOUNCED. I WILL WAIT FOR THE REVIEW, AND THEN DECIDE.

And then you will buy it, once a FAN always a FAN

 

[NeuroFiZT]

I disagree NeuroFiZT

GT4 was quanity, not quality. I never got 100% because there was something like 70 rally events. Most of them were the same race/track with 3 levels of difficulty, easy, medium, and hard.

Then all the useless one make races (See one make A-spec races in GT5)

If your so worried about the lack of A-spec races in GT5, go to arcade mode and setup your custom race.

The hype and rumors is because of the age of the internet. Every idea PD was working on was revealed and when alot of it (like tempature changes and weather forecasts) didn't make it in for whatever reason people got disappointed.

I am a "hardcore" GT fan. I've been there since GT1. GT5 is, IMO, easily the best one yet and will only get better with more udpates.

To me the only thing that PD has strayed away from its roots is making license tests an after thought and adding the rediculous pass 15 cars in one lap challenges.

Other then that GT5 is GT and I am very sattisfied with the game now that credits and XP are available online.

Good stuff. Your points are well taken. You're right, there were a lot of pointless challenges in GT4.... but I liked that there weren't significant gaps between the challenges.

Yes, XP and Cr rewards in online mode alleviate this a bit, but once again, I just don't see why the single-player mode is an afterthought now. Sure, online is great, and I'm excited about seeing it develop... I just don't see why it has to be at the expense of the career mode.

I also like your comment about hype re: the age of internet. Yes, maybe too many of PD's longer-term ideas were leaked, creating unrealistic expectations. This is a great point. I still wonder how many of those were intentionally leaked though.

Thanks, 'Earth.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

rabble rabble rabble

You probably mean 'ramble'.

Online XP / Credits = Win. As long as they give enough of them for each race then it may not even feel like grinding but rather having fun playing with your friends...sounds good to me!

Online multiplayer is the future of all games. The sooner people get with it the better for all.

Yes, sounds good to me too. But like I said before, I don't see why that means they can half-a$$ career mode. I'm very much 'with it' when it comes to online mode. It's hard to play a lot since I'm working a phd at the moment, but I have regular track days with friends and I love it. Still, I just don't see why that means career mode has to suffer. You make a great point... but it doesn't relate to career mode.

 

[TsLeng]

Yup. I see your point. Restart is certainly useful for licenses and restarting if you don't get 1st place, etc.... what I have a problem with is people applauding it for it's 'grinding facilitation'. I just don't see why grinding should be an accepted part of the game. Imho, it shouldn't. Thanks for the contribution, 'dander, always a pleasure chatting.

Grinding has been a feature of GT2 and GT4, both of which I played and is familiar with.

It used to go like this: Race>win $>sell prize car. Repeat. Use $$ to do what I want, which is usually buy some random car and modding the hell out of it to see how fast it goes.

Please don't tell me you have not grinded for credits in previous GT games. Why the surprise now? 💡

Yes, sounds good to me too. But like I said before, I don't see why that means they can half-a$$ career mode. I'm very much 'with it' when it comes to online mode. It's hard to play a lot since I'm working a phd at the moment, but I have regular track days with friends and I love it. Still, I just don't see why that means career mode has to suffer. You make a great point... but it doesn't relate to career mode.

Don't have much time and you want to make the career mode bigger/longer? Once you have reached a reasonably high level, you can take it easy and go play online which give you variety of opponents and now credits & XP. That'll slowly help you level up.

Do you really prefer to do the manufacturer races and multiple rallies in GT4 instead? As I see it, if PD can keep up with the seasonal events (once every 3 months or so) then we will have some variety and maybe even surprises along the way.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

And then you will buy it, once a FAN always a FAN

Hahaha I thought of that too. I probably will...... unless of course, there's another game out there that's actually finished.

No lie: the first time I loaded GT5 and saw the jagged shadows and how many things were blatantly missing, I thought I was sold some pirated copy of an early build!!!!

 

[lrn2swm]

you know what it seems like with games these days....it seems like when they add online multiplayer to the mix the single player part of the game gets dumbed down a lot. That's with almost all games i have noticed. Gt5 is the first(full) gt game with online and it seems that the single player mode has suffered. I sure hope this "trend" of single player suffering will come to and end soon.....

+1

 

[NeuroFiZT]

Grinding has been a feature of GT2 and GT4, both of which I played and is familiar with.

It used to go like this: Race>win $>sell prize car. Repeat. Use $$ to do what I want, which is usually buy some random car and modding the hell out of it to see how fast it goes.

Please don't tell me you have not grinded for credits in previous GT games. Why the surprise now? 💡

Of course I've grinded before:
1) I never liked it.... but it was palatable. As you point out, it was mainly to buy a car you want... not to advance to the next part of the game even though you're already done with this part (recall we never had to grind for XP before, just $).
2) The grinding was previously NOWHERE near the level it is now. I mean, it dominates the game sometimes... I don't think that's right. I'm ok with a bit of grinding (e.g. the old GT games), but grinding is the name of the game in GT5's career mode (and NOT just to buy cool cars and mod them...... to advance to a level you've already earned).
It's like playing Mario and sonic, and having to beat a level 20 times before you can advance. Why is that accepted?

 

[NeuroFiZT]

+1 (re: Why does enhancing online have to limit career mode?)

+2

 

[Wuestenmaus]

Restarting a race is extremely usefull if you want to gold out the license tests.

 

[Perkel]

Dude GT4 was a grind fest..

Also why is game to easy for you ? Tried 24h yet ?

Also consider that you are a hardcore fan same as me. But there are a lot of people who aren't hardcore fans. Also consider your skill level it isn't the same as in 1997.

1.05 is a win for all of us.

 

[rileyra]

You probably mean 'ramble'.



Yes, sounds good to me too. But like I said before, I don't see why that means they can half-a$$ career mode. I'm very much 'with it' when it comes to online mode. It's hard to play a lot since I'm working a phd at the moment, but I have regular track days with friends and I love it. Still, I just don't see why that means career mode has to suffer. You make a great point... but it doesn't relate to career mode.

No sir I meant "rabble' time to bone up on your South Park

It's just the way of things anymore. Games are focusing more towards online because they have unlimited reply value once that's in place and the single player is just a training session for the online expierience. I'm ok with this as human interaction in a game is more fun than AI anyday, regardless of the game genre.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

Restarting a race is extremely usefull if you want to gold out the license tests.

Yes it is..... No problem with that, I just don't like when people are happy that it makes it easier to grind (see one of the previous posts).

1) PD designs a game with huge gaps in it's level-structure.
2) Gamers are pissed about that, and demand a better level-structure.
3) PD doesn't give it.
4) Gamers start grinding, because it's the only possible solution.
5) PD gives them a convenient 'restart race' button.
6) Gamers are happy and forget that games should have a good level-structure.

 

[TsLeng]

Of course I've grinded before:
1) I never liked it.... but it was palatable. As you point out, it was mainly to buy a car you want... not to advance to the next part of the game even though you're already done with this part (recall we never had to grind for XP before, just $).
2) The grinding was previously NOWHERE near the level it is now. I mean, it dominates the game sometimes... I don't think that's right. I'm ok with a bit of grinding (e.g. the old GT games), but grinding is the name of the game in GT5's career mode (and NOT just to buy cool cars and mod them...... to advance to a level you've already earned).
It's like playing Mario and sonic, and having to beat a level 20 times before you can advance. Why is that accepted?

You don't really need to grind yourself to advance in GT5. Let bob do it. Unless you want to enter the endurance races yourself, Bob can easily get to level 30 which unlocks the Vettel Challenge so that you can get your X2010.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

No sir I meant "rabble' time to bone up on your South Park

It's just the way of things anymore. Games are focusing more towards online because they have unlimited reply value once that's in place and the single player is just a training session for the online expierience. I'm ok with this as human interaction in a game is more fun than AI anyday, regardless of the game genre.

Hahahahaha I have to admit my South Park knowledge is lacking

I agree about online. 100%. I'm excited about it. I just don't see why that should make 'GT Mode', which stands for Gran Turismo mode, incidentally , any worse.

 

[GTP_joeninety]

The repeated racing(grinding) is just forcing you to practice more and I don't have a problem with that, some of us need it more than others.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

You don't really need to grind yourself to advance in GT5. Let bob do it. Unless you want to enter the endurance races yourself, Bob can easily get to level 30 which unlocks the Vettel Challenge so that you can get your X2010.

Sure, but I'm trying to enjoy the game, not get to some 'all powerful' solution that will dominate in every race so I can finish quicker.... that defeats the purpose of such a game for me.

And why would I want the computer to play a game for me? Couldn't I just watch a racing video? I should be able to play the game and enjoy it........ am I the only one who thinks that?

 

[NeuroFiZT]

The repeated racing(grinding) is just forcing you to practice more and I don't have a problem with that, some of us need it more than others.

Sure. That's what 'Practice Mode' is for.

 

[rileyra]

You just have to realize that it isn't a PD exclusive issue. Most if not all game developers are progressing the same way towards Online being the main focus.

And I'm no game designer so I don't know if its even possible or the extent of effort it would take to actually restructure the career layout with a patch...But it seems like it would be difficult to me

 

[craigm26]

As for the grinding, I haven't really done this that mch simply because there's other events to get a better trophy or earn more XP/$ or work on my Bob's.

I ran into grinding this weekend and ended up actually stragegizing how I was going to get to a spec level 21 and 22. I worked on my bobs then decided to trophy up the special events for the most part. I'm on level 22 a spec and like b spec 11. No complaints from me on grinding. I see it as being a real possibility later but, I mean how many times did you retry the last level of super Mario? And GT4? It's not an arcade racer, its more like a simulator racer... Hence good driving and management will probably translate to a better experience. My brother is probably like the OP...upset he cant dominate the later stages simply because We don't have a great car and little cash. And I dont tell him his line is screwed up because he can kick my butt.

I love GT5 and hope the online updates keep coming because you know the potential is there with the physics done and some sweet tracks. I appreciate the difficulties of building games on the PS3 so I can easily forgive PD on timeliness. But I will say that I would love to see less shadow jaggies.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

You just have to realize that it isn't a PD exclusive issue. Most if not all game developers are progressing the same way towards Online being the main focus.

And I'm no game designer so I don't know if its even possible or the extent of effort it would take to actually restructure the career layout with a patch...But it seems like it would be difficult to me

Good points.

regarding 'not a PD-exclusive issue' : I do realize that. In fact, that's part of my point: PD used to be an exception. While others would be satisfied with something less-than-perfect, PD never used to be satisfied with that.

regarding 'maybe not possible to fix career with a patch':
You might be right... still doesn't answer why it needs a patch in the first place..... i.e., I remember when games used to be released when they were finished.

 

[Sidstyler]

This Thread.

Proof you can't make everyone happy.

PD's fans are so overbearing it is amazing. I've played every GT game to the point that today I guess you can call me a semi-core or whatever term you want to call it.
You're one of the few I have heard that praise GT4, which really makes me wonder.
I remember grinding my ass to the bone to get off the ground in GT4, infact i found the game tiring at times just cause of the size of it.
GT5 is nice is because it is a small package that boasts large replayability, and not dragging you through billions of events. If anything GT5 should be great for any "hardcore" fan looking at the number of cars and how easy(not all the time however) it is to get them and Master them.

I urge you to play GT4 again and see which one you'd prefer to play. If you say GT4 you are just stuck in a Thick mist of denial. Gran Turismo 5 is great game, you are just too preoccupied with your self-proclaimed status as a hardcore to see that.
And before you flame me calling me deluded find some better examples, you can't catch anyone red handed with circumstantial evidence.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

As for the grinding, I haven't really done this that mch simply because there's other events to get a better trophy or earn more XP/$ or work on my Bob's.

I ran into grinding this weekend and ended up actually stragegizing how I was going to get to a spec level 21 and 22. I worked on my bobs then decided to trophy up the special events for the most part. I'm on level 22 a spec and like b spec 11. No complaints from me on grinding. I see it as being a real possibility later but, I mean how many times did you retry the last level of super Mario? And GT4? It's not an arcade racer, its more like a simulator racer... Hence good driving and management will probably translate to a better experience. My brother is probably like the OP...upset he cant dominate the later stages simply because We don't have a great car and little cash. And I dont tell him his line is screwed up because he can kick my butt.

I love GT5 and hope the online updates keep coming because you know the potential is there with the physics done and some sweet tracks. I appreciate the difficulties of building games on the PS3 so I can easily forgive PD on timeliness. But I will say that I would love to see less shadow jaggies.

All great points.... and cheers to your bro for finding an 'alternative line'!!

but let's get one thing straight: "Grinding" is not when you 'retry a level over and over because you can't pass it'. It's when you retry a level over and over after you've already beat it.

 

[birksy82]

Im also a GT fan from 1997 and im not going to jump on the bandwagon and start flaming you like some of the others. GT5 is a vast improvement over the others in my eyes and yes it has problems but lets be honest they are little problems that can be fixed e.g shadows. Without naming them other big developers have far worse problems in their games and don't fix them instead they bring a new one out yearly with the same problems or worse. Just because its PD it doesn't mean that they are perfect but they are a long way better than other developers which they have proved with the updates that have been released in the past month. I thought that there are not many events in this game but in this day and age more can be added at a later date which it has in a way already and im certain that there will be more added to GT life in the not so distant future people do seem to forget about this for some reason.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

This Thread.

Proof you can't make everyone happy.

PD's fans are so overbearing it is amazing. I've played every GT game to the point that today I guess you can call me a semi-core or whatever term you want to call it.
You're one of the few I have heard that praise GT4, which really makes me wonder.
I remember grinding my ass to the bone to get off the ground in GT4, infact i found the game tiring at times just cause of the size of it.
GT5 is nice is because it is a small package that boasts large replayability, and not dragging you through billions of events. If anything GT5 should be great for any "hardcore" fan looking at the number of cars and how easy(not all the time however) it is to get them and Master them.

I urge you to play GT4 again and see which one you'd prefer to play. If you say GT4 you are just stuck in a Thick mist of denial. Gran Turismo 5 is great game, you are just too preoccupied with your self-proclaimed status as a hardcore to see that.
And before you flame me calling me deluded find some better examples, you can't catch anyone red handed with circumstantial evidence.

Don't worry, I won't flame. Never have, and never will.

I just ask that when a game is released, that it's finished... and that it's leveling-structure is good enough that you don't need to grind all the time (just to get to the next level).

As I've said before... I've grinded "my ass to the bone" (love the expression by the way) with GT4 too.... but it was mainly to save up money to get something I wanted, not to just advance to the next XP level.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

Im also a GT fan from 1997 and im not going to jump on the bandwagon and start flaming you like some of the others. GT5 is a vast improvement over the others in my eyes and yes it has problems but lets be honest they are little problems that can be fixed e.g shadows. Without naming them other big developers have far worse problems in their games and don't fix them instead they bring a new one out yearly with the same problems or worse. Just because its PD it doesn't mean that they are perfect but they are a long way better than other developers which they have proved with the updates that have been released in the past month. I thought that there are not many events in this game but in this day and age more can be added at a later date which it has in a way already and im certain that there will be more added to GT life in the not so distant future people do seem to forget about this for some reason.

Don't get me wrong, I still love the game, it's still a remarkable achievement... but it's all wrapped in something really sloppy.
I sure hope you're right about future updates to GT mode.

Perhaps I'm just being too cynical. I hope so..... but I'm just reacting to what I'm seeing.

Call me old-school, but I remember when released games were finished.

 

[Sidstyler]

Don't worry, I won't flame. Never have, and never will.

I just ask that when a game is released, that it's finished... and that it's leveling-structure is good enough that you don't need to grind all the time (just to get to the next level).

As I've said before... I've grinded "my ass to the bone" (love the expression by the way) with GT4 too.... but it was mainly to save up money to get something I wanted, not to just advance to the next XP level.

Perhaps you may be right, but I prefer it to me getting frustrated Never being able to proceed because of a ridiculous License test. Tedium > Rage

We're at the 2 week point of this game already and I have been treating my PS3 like a slave. I don't remember the last time I have devoted so much of my time and mental thought to a game.

...oh wait I can, it was Gran Turismo 4.

 

[craigm26]

I would hate to see GT become more about online play. Sorry, I don't want to see less empahsis on actually driving. As much fun as Mario kart 64 was, this was not a true measuring stick of actual skill. I didn't play burnout paradise but I Imagine that would be the same vein that GT shouldn't be about. I mean, really...do you expect the career mode to more of a giant license test so you could compete online?

 

[rileyra]

Burnout paradise was one of the best integrations of online play I've seen actually. Wasted many hours on that game and all of them were fun.

 

[craigm26]

+1 I'll pick that up soon. I just can't see a great example being done as a the main feature of GT after playing call of duty. I blame Goldeneye lol. For me, I prefer racing as legitimately as possible as in the real world simply because I don't have the cash to fund it. And I am not James bond either so it's a bit different. Hopefully that was all coherent.