GTP OLR 24hrs of Lemans

Earth · May 15, 2006

GTP 24hrs of Le Mans

Where endurance is as important as speed

Rules, questions and signup thread.

Race Administrators:

Dark Elite - 300mph Club - Skyline Squadron
Earth - 24hrs of Le Mans Club - awol ESES president
Mulsanne - Laguna Seca 200 - Grand Valley 300km - Suzuka 1000km - Fuji 1000km

These 3 individuals are the ones you are to talk to in case you have a question.

Storylines: (coming soon)

1. Audi vs Pescarolo
2. Dark Horse
3. Penalty
4. Fuel Mileage
5. Endurance

ENTRY LIST as of May 15, 2006

Group C:

Team Planetoid
#20 R89c Nissan
DRIVEN -USA-
Billy B-Spec

Nissan-Calsonic Racing
#1 Nissan R92CP
Derek Ferrell
Butch Leitzinger

LMP1:

Rufus-Shinra Motorsports
#10 Pescarolo Judd C60
Earth
Michael Andretti

BMW Motorsport
#15 BMW V12 LMR
Jhansen
Beeker

Eggs and Cheese
#04 Audi R8
Omelettes
Ron Burgendy

Audi Sport North America
#7 Audi R8 3.6t (M)
Mulsanne
FIN - J.J. Lehto

Pescarolo Sport
#17 Pescarolo Judd (m)
AUS - Ls2_297
FRA - Sebasian Loeb

GT1:

PRACTICE WILL BE HANDLED IN THE FOLLOWING MANNER: YOU MAY USE THE ACTUAL 24HR RACE AS A PRACTICE FIELD TO MEASURE TIRE WEAR, FUEL CONSUMPTION ETC. But you may only practice until you have to pit. From there you MUST restart the race. If you continue on after your pitstop the race is OFFICIAL!!

RULE BOOK

Sections:

A. OLR Rules
B. Qualifying Rules
C. Race Rules
D. Race Time Submission
E. Available cars and car specifications
F. Entry Form

Section A: (O)n (L)ine (R)acing Rules

A1 - This rule is simple, keep 2 INSIDE wheels on the rumble strips at all times. The ford chicanes at the end or turns 2 and 3 may be tempting to zip through, but this rule must be enforced. No cutting chicanes or wreckless driving. Red and tan sand is like rumble strips. Keep the 2 INSIDE TIRES on them. The gray sand on the Mulsanne straights are legal to get all 4 tires on.

Section B: Qualifying Rules

B1: You must run your qualifying laps in the following area: GT MODE - World Circuits - Circuit de la Sarthe I

B2: Tire compound used for qualifying is R1/R1. Softer tires are NOT allowed.

B3: Any breach of OLR rules (Section A) in a qualifying lap makes the lap obsolete. You must run a clean, OLR rules approving lap in order to submit the time.

B4: Record all of our split times including your total time.

B5: The front row (positions 1&2) will have no time added to their total time. 1 second will be added to the second row, 2 seconds to the third row and so on.

B6: Qualifying times should be posted in the qualifying thread. The thread and will be created May 21, 2006. Include your split times and total time.

B7: Every driver must use the same car they selected for qualifying. This means you must use the identical car for qualifying and the race. You may not purchase 2 cars and use 1 for the race and another for qualifying.

B8: A qualifying time submission should look like this:

Driver:
Team:
Car & #:
Qualifying splits:
Total lap time:

(Note that you must signup before your qualifying time is added to the leaderboard)

B9: Every driver entering after the qualifying period ends will recieve a random spot in the back of the grid.

B10: Qualifying begins May 21 and ends May 28th, 2006

Section C: Race Rules

C1: The Race will be done in the following area: GT MODE - Endurance Hall - 24 hrs Circuit de la Sarthe I

C2: The opponents you race against is your choice.

C3: OLR rules are in affect over the course of the 24 hours.

C4: Touching a wall or tire barrier will require that you serve a drive through the pits penalty. It is OK to change tires and add fuel when you serve your penalty. (see C5))

C5: Contact with an AI car's rear bumper will result in a drive through penatly the same lap. You may change tires or add fuel when serving a penalty.

Wait until you have a shot to cleanly pass AI cars. This is not a tight twisty track at all and there should be plenty of places to pass without contact. If an AI car hits you from behind there is no penalty. If an AI car suddenly turns into you after racing side-by-side there is no penalty. If an AI car pushes you off course into a sand trap or wall there is no penalty. This rule is to prevent dive bombing AI cars into corners or bump drafting them down the straights.

C6: You must enter pitlane properly. There is a tight left-right at the entrance. You must slow the car down and make these turns properly. DO NOT speed across the grass.

C7: There will be tire compound limitions for the race. R2 is the softest tire you may use.

C8: The race may be done entirely in A or B-spec, or a mix of both. The race may be simulated as fast as you want in B-spec.

C9: If an AI driver is driving for you it is OK for him to have contact with other AI cars and to run off the road etc. In other words, he does not have to serve penalties for driving errors.

C10: You MAY NOT run the race twice! If you continue after your first pitstop the race is OFFICIAL!!

Section D: Race time submission

D1: You MUST record your progress throughout the 24 hours in 6hour intervals. This achieved by pausing the game after you pass the start finish line when the total time passes the 6, 12, 18 and of course the end of the race. This is the informatin you must record:

-Total Time after passing the start finish line at the end of a 6 hour interval.

-Laps COMPLETED, not your current lap.

-Which drivers drove during the 6 hour period(to make for an interesting writeup)

To get the exact time that you cross the start finish line pause the game after doing so. Notice your current lap time, which should be lets say .821. Take that time and subtract it from your total time. Example: lets say you pass the 6 hour mark on lap 100 entering Indianpolis. Wait until you get past the start finish line and pause the game. Record your total time. Record your laps COMPLETED.
It should look like this :

6 HOUR MARK

Driver at end of 6hr mark: Earth

Car: Pescarolo Judd

Team: Pescarolo Sport

Total time so far? 6:01'31.322

Laps completed? 100

Comments for interval? Had contact with GT1 car going into Mulsanne Corner, drove away and pitted for tires and fuel. John Doe was behind the wheel from hour 2-4, before pitting and handing it over to etc etc etc

Send the 6, 12, 18 and final lap count and time to the359 in ONE PM message.

D2: This is done to watch cheating and provide LIVE race results broadcasted over a 24 hour period.

D3: Race times will be accepted beginning June 1 and will not be accepted after June 20. That does not mean you can't run the race before June 1. It means don't send the359 your times before June 1.

Section E: Available Cars and car specifications

E1: The cars

LMP
Audi R8 - +50kgs
Bentley Speed 8 - +50kgs
BMW V12 LMR - +25kgs
Pescarolo C60-Peugeot - +50kgs
Pescarolo C60-Judd - +50kgs
Toyota GT-One - no adjustment

Group C
Jaguar XJR-9 - +50kgs
Mazda 787B - +50kgs
Mercedes Sauber C9 - +150kgs
Nissan R89C - +100kgs
Nissan R92CP - +50kgs
Peugeot 905 - no adjustment
Toyota 88C-V - +100kgs

GT1
Nissan R390 GT1 - +200kgs
McLaren F1 GTR - +50kgs
Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR - +50kgs
Panoz Esperante GTR-1 - no adjustment

E2: Settings for EVERY car

No upgrades for power may be added to the cars. No turbos or NOS.

The car's power must remaine STOCK EXCEPT for the following:

-rollcage may be added
-chassis refresh is OK
-oil change is OK
-car wash is OK
-permitted racing tires is OK (qualifying and the race both have different tire limitations)

Now onto the electronic parts of the cars:

ASM understeer must be set to 0
ASM oversteer must be set to 0
TCS may be set no higher than 1

Gearing, downforce, suspension and other factors may be changed to the drivers liking.

Section F: Entry Form

F1: To submit an entry please fill out the following information and post it in this thread. If your application is approved a race administrator will quote your form and simply reply 'approved'. You then will be added to the entry list and will also have permission to post in the Qualifying and Race threads. Entrys will not be accepted after June 13, 2006.

ENTRY FORM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Team Name: (May share team name with other drivers if agreed. Factory teams are FORCED teammates)

Car, # and class:

Driver 1 name & country: (your name)
Driver 2 name & country: (you B-spec driver's name. Insert name even if you don't plan to use B-Spec)

I have read and understand the rules regarding OLR, qualifying, the race, race time submission and the available cars and their specifications.
- (SIGN HERE)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once you filled out this form enter it into this thread. A race administrator will review the form and will either give it approval or deny it due to incompleteness or other errors. If approved, the administrator will quote your entry form and simply reply 'approved'. You then will have permission to post in the Qualifying and Race thread as well as the ability to submit your race time to Earth. If the form is denied a race administrator will quote your reply and give reason why the form was rejected and how to fix the error(s).

Gentlemen, start your engines

Earth · May 15, 2006

Team Name: Rufus-Shinra Motorsports

Car # and class: Pescarolo Judd C60 - #10 - LMP

Driver 1 name & country: Earth United States
Driver 2 name & country: Theodore Mikolas Greece

I have read and understand the rules regarding OLR, qualifying, the race, race time submission and the available cars and their specifications.
- Earth

Approved

The359 · May 17, 2006

More coming soon

[empty space] · May 17, 2006

Factory teams are FORCED teammates)

the only non-factory cars are the pescarolo sports. does this mean everyone not driving a pesca is basically team mates?

anyways, id jump on this without the tyre/weight restrictions ... but, i dont know. i barelly put enough time in for the fgt races.

Danisfast · May 17, 2006

Ah, I dunno man...I love the idea, I love the real 24 hour race, its got potential...I'm juss not sure it'll really work until gran turismo finally get their lazy arses to make a PROPER online game where you can use your own cars from GT mode and make the races PROPERLY customizable. On top of that, I'm not sure I agree with the pit-in penalty, sure if you gain some advantage by cutting a chicane or bouncing off of wall, but asking us to stay on track for 24hrs I'm not so sure, cause thats not a rule in the real event. Also, can I enter more than two drivers in the one car for the race?? Finally, how are you going to enforce the rules?? (I think I must've missed that bit).
Thanks,
Dan

Mulsanne · May 17, 2006

You know I'm entering! Car choice is yet to be decided.

Guys, I know this isn't perfect, but it's the best we've got to work with right now. Hopefully, the next GT will have all the LMP/GT cars, day/night changes, weather, tires that actually last a fuel stint (or two/three, like in real life), better AI and so on and so forth, but this is what we have to work with right now. Trust me, Earth and The359 have spent a lot of time getting these rules right. We're looking for realism, but without driving away potential entries.

Believe me, if you're a fan of the real-life 24 Hours of Le Mans, you'll want to be in this race.

DRIVEN -USA- · May 17, 2006

Now this looks like fun. Will have to do some testing to find out which car i will want to run. B-spec Billy is stoked on getting to run some at the Lemans, as he did well at the last enduro he was in (fuji). :crazy:

The359 · May 17, 2006

Danisfast
On top of that, I'm not sure I agree with the pit-in penalty, sure if you gain some advantage by cutting a chicane or bouncing off of wall, but asking us to stay on track for 24hrs I'm not so sure, cause thats not a rule in the real event.

It's not a rule, but in the real event if a car goes in the grovel it makes a pit stop to have the gravel cleared out and the tires changed because they're likely to be cut.

Earth · May 17, 2006

[empty space]
the only non-factory cars are the pescarolo sports. does this mean everyone not driving a pesca is basically team mates?

anyways, id jump on this without the tyre/weight restrictions ... but, i dont know. i barelly put enough time in for the fgt races.

The factory rule is for the teams, not the particular cars. Example is if 2 drivers choose Pescarolo Sport as their teams they are forced teammates.

I was against the weight restrictions at first, as the359 can tell you lol, but after practicing with the extra weight for a while it's no big deal.

As for the tire restrictions, you have to trust us on that. Most of us who have run enduros will tell you that the restriction on tires is the best way to go. Trust us.

Danisfast
On top of that, I'm not sure I agree with the pit-in penalty, sure if you gain some advantage by cutting a chicane or bouncing off of wall, but asking us to stay on track for 24hrs I'm not so sure, cause thats not a rule in the real event. Also, can I enter more than two drivers in the one car for the race?? Finally, how are you going to enforce the rules?? (I think I must've missed that bit).
Thanks,
Dan

To add some sort of variable to the race rather then just who can tear up the track the fastest this rule was created. You can go off course. The only time a entry to pit is required is when you hit a wall or the bumper of an AI car in A-Spec mode. Those 2 things are very easy to prevent with a shred of patience. The359 is also right on that point.

Yes, you enter 2 drivers for one car. Yourself and whoever you want. This is done for realism and to make a good writeup. When you enter 2 drivers that does not mean you have to use B-Spec.

We cant enforce the rules, sadly. But we are sure that anyone willing to run such a long race will have enough honor to follow the rules. One way to help and see if one is cheating is the 6 hour increment time reports. But in the end I doubt there is a big enough jerk out there to fake a time. Well, maybe there is, but I doubt someone like that will go through all the effort to do so.

edit: jeff couldnt make it . he had a nascar race

[empty space] · May 18, 2006

As for the tire restrictions, you have to trust us on that. Most of us who have run enduros will tell you that the restriction on tires is the best way to go. Trust us.

hm? i was quite thankfull for my r4/r3s tyres in the two group c enduros.

Earth · May 18, 2006

Thats the point, people will be running the softest tire possible, and will be pitting every 4-5 laps, which is uber unrealistic.

We dont want tires to be the deciding factor of the race. You shouldnt spend 24 hrs of your time driving just to find out some guy with a different tire combo won because of his tires.

Jhansen · May 18, 2006

Earth
Thats the point, people will be running the softest tire possible, and will be pitting every 4-5 laps, which is uber unrealistic.

We dont want tires to be the deciding factor of the race. You shouldnt spend 24 hrs of your time driving just to find out some guy with a different tire combo won because of his tires.

Tires win LeMans all the time. That's about as realistic as you can get. The Michelin runners dominate that event because they can triple and quadruple stint their tyres. Ok, so that's not possible here, but some people can set up their cars to be less abusive on tires. And thus have an advantage. That's part of what makes LeMans great. Different cars, different drivers, different strategies, all playing out over 24 hours. If you're trying to keep the spirit of the race, I don't see how you can limit tire choice. This is all IMO of course.

[empty space] · May 18, 2006

erm ... not really, its a perfectly legit strategy. and obviouslly one that works really well.

We dont want tires to be the deciding factor of the race. You shouldnt spend 24 hrs of your time driving just to find out some guy with a different tire combo won because of his tires.

erm ... not everybody runs the same times/pit stratgey in real racing. thats part of what makes endurance racing interesting.

Earth · May 19, 2006

First, read the administrators' credentials. Mulsanne has presided over four endurance races and I two.

Now, I know tire durability wins races in the real world but it does not in GT4. GT4 does not recreate tire wear and grip correctly between the various compounds. For that reason we have decided to do away with most of the tire compound choices. Let me put it in simple terms: the softest tire compound always wins the race in GT4. That is not in the spirit of endurance racing, no, not at all. Nor is it even close to being realistic. It also takes away from any type of endurance race feel when you have to pit every 10-15 minutes. That means you will end up making 90+ pitstops. Rediculous if you ask me.

Also, the real teams are using the hardest compound available, trust me, and it usually comes down to tire manufacturer, car and setup that decides how long a tire last. If anything restricting the drivers to R2 and R1 tires IS in the spirit of Lemans.

[empty_space] sure running a very soft tire is a legit strategy in GT4, but when it comes to OLR enduros and the 24 hrs of Lemans softer tires should be nowhere to be seen.

As for the strategy part, as I stated above the tire grip and wear is so unrealistic there is no such thing as 'strategy' in using different compounds. The softer the tire you run in a race the better off you are in GT4. Running a harder tire and pitting less does not help you. That's why theres a tire limitation.

The rule is here to stay, btw.

DRIVEN -USA- · May 19, 2006

R89c Nissan
#20
Group C

DRIVEN -USA-
USA
Billy B-Spec
GERMANY

Looks like some fun to be had here :sly:

OOPPSS 🤬
TEAM NAME: Team Planetoid

Earth · May 19, 2006

DRIVEN -USA-
R89c Nissan
#20
Group C

DRIVEN -USA-
USA
Billy B-Spec
GERMANY

Looks like some fun to be had here

I need a team name DRIVEN -USA-

Jhansen · May 19, 2006

It's just a friendly discussion Earth. I'm well aware this will not change the rules. But if you want to talk about real life comparisons with Le Mans, then we should just not run the race. There are no real life comparisons between LeMans and GT4. For example:

The LMP cars have way too much horsepower in GT4. The R8 should have somewhere between 600 and 650 horsepower for the spec represented in the game. Right, it has over 800 in GT4.

We should be able to run tires through at least two stops and more. But we can't.

There is no darkness and we are only racing five cars on track. I could go on. This is not a true sim.

Some drivers, like empty_space can make softer compound tires last close to a full stint. I think you're missing that. In fact, empty_space ruled The359's Group C series in the 905 by mastering tire wear. You can alter the car's setup to be easier on tires. It is a valid strategy, which is very much within the spirit of the race. You seem to think that we are novices at this game, which is a tad bit irritating.

With all of that said, I'm looking forward to running the race despite my indifference with some of the rules. That's racing as they say.

Earth · May 19, 2006

Jhansen
It's just a friendly discussion Earth. I'm well aware this will not change the rules. But if you want to talk about real life comparisons with Le Mans, then we should just not run the race. There are no real life comparisons between LeMans and GT4. For example:

The LMP cars have way too much horsepower in GT4. The R8 should have somewhere between 600 and 650 horsepower for the spec represented in the game. Right, it has over 800 in GT4.

We should be able to run tires through at least two stops and more. But we can't.

There is no darkness and we are only racing five cars on track. I could go on. This is not a true sim.

Some drivers, like empty_space can make softer compound tires last close to a full stint. I think you're missing that. In fact, empty_space ruled The359's Group C series in the 905 by mastering tire wear. You can alter the car's setup to be easier on tires. It is a valid strategy, which is very much within the spirit of the race. You seem to think that we are novices at this game, which is a tad bit irritating.

With all of that said, I'm looking forward to running the race despite my indifference with some of the rules. That's racing as they say.

I'm not saying you are a novice with the game, but unless your LMP series ran races 2+ hours long I think Mulsanne and I have and edge on you when it comes to presiding over and running endurance events. Dark Elite, Mulsanne, the359 and I have discussed the tire situation for a long period of time. This is the best way to go in our opinions.

We are simply trying to make things fair. We are trying to control what we can in the game to give the most enjoyable and realistic experience possible. We feel these rules bring us as close to a fun, realistic experience as possible. That's why there is the weight penalties for the cars, to equal them out. The pit stop penalty rule for hitting walls is there to increase the challenge and toss things up.

We know about the outraegous horsepower, the no day night change, 6 cars and unrealistic fuel and tire consumption. But there is no way to change those things in the game. All we can do is alter what we have to provide a Lemans like experience. Allowing drivers to run R3 tires, in our opinion, takes away from the Lemans experience as well as the competivness of the race. When the359 proposed his rules for adding weight to various cars I was strongly opposed. But in time I realized that adding weight to different cars was, although unrealistic, the best way to add to the competivness of the race.

Real world racing bodies such as NASCAR and F1 have used tire limitations in the past, for safety, race quality, or other reasons. As you say, that's racing.

As far as I can tell from what you said emptyspace won with softer tires then the competition. Call it setup, call it driving style, but in the end its the rubber that touches the road, the only part of a car that touches a road, and your tire compound is the most important choice you can make with a setup. I believe this choice is far too easy to make in GT4 because R3 will beat R2 and R1 over a long race anyday. Because a certain tire combination in GT4 is always the best way to go, I, Mulsanne, the359 and Dark Elite have all decided that we should restrict the tires to R2 and R1. Why? R2 and R1 provide the most realistic and fair race possible. We have discussed this for a long time and have all came to this conclusion.

If this tire rule was not in effect I would drop out of this race, and I'm sure Mulsanne would too because we know what can happen. The idea that you are willing to stay shows it isn't so bad. If we ran open tires the results would show a guy who decided to take a chance and run R4/R5 the whole race win by a landslide. I've seen that happen and I don't want to see everybody spend 24 hrs at Lemans to see it happen again.

Thank you for cooperating, though.

Jhansen · May 19, 2006

I'm all for cooperation, because I like the event. I'm not wild about the weight additions because I think that can adversely affect tire wear. But we'll see in time. I'm ok with that.

As for the rubber meeting the road so to speak. Yes, it's easy to just put on soft tires. But I will say that it is not easy to make soft tires last a full stint. That takes driver and set-up skill. A part of racing right?

Well I digress. I'm looking forward to mixing it up a little.

Edit: Even though I'm defending the soft tire option, I disagree that softer tires always win. In my LMP series sometimes the softer tires plus a stop won, sometimes harder tires and no stop won.

omelettes · May 19, 2006

Team: Eggs and Cheese
McLaren F1 GTR, #04, GT1
Omelettes, USA
Ron Burgendy, Guatamala

I have read and understand the rules regarding OLR, qualifying, the race, race time submission and the available cars and their specifications.
- Omelettes

Mulsanne · May 19, 2006

First off, good to see the interest in this race.

👍

Second, I'm completely behind Earth on the R2/R1 tire rules. We just finished a 1000 kilometer LMP race at Fuji Speedway 90's. The rules stated that the only tires allowed were R1, R2 and R3. The top two finishers were both on R3s for almost the entire race. So the softer tire does make a major difference.

Of course, they also drove very well and didn't make many mistakes (that I know of

), but simply bolting on the softest tires and pitting every few laps, while totally legal, is really not in the spirit of endurance racing. This rule simply eliminates a totally unrealistic variable and makes it more about driving skills.

All the other "unrealistic" stuff that was mentioned (only 6 cars, no darkness, etc.) doesn't have an effect on the outcome of the race. However, unrealistic tire grip/wear has a HUGE effect on the outcome of the race. The rule is totally in line with the spirit of Le Mans and I believe it increases the realistic nature of the race.

As for the weight adjustments, it was made in an attempt for more parity among the various cars. We don't want a situation where everyone jumps in an Audi R8 or Toyota 88CV and anyone not in one of those cars doesn't have a prayer. We want a variety of cars to be competitive.

Earth · May 19, 2006

omelettes
Team: Eggs and Cheese
McLaren F1 GTR, #04, GT1
Omelettes, USA
Ron Burgendy, Guatamala

I have read and understand the rules regarding OLR, qualifying, the race, race time submission and the available cars and their specifications.
- Omelettes

OK you're in 👍

Good to see the entries pour in

[empty space] · May 19, 2006

ill agree with tyre rules as soon as r1s can last 20-39 laps (presuming one stint is 10-13 laps in the real event). as i see it, if the tyre wear was the same in real life as it was in gt4, wouldnt you think theyd use the exact same stratgey? at least in the beginning of the race?

im suprised you dont have a forced b-spec amount of time to simulate a driver change.

Earth · May 19, 2006

I'm sorry you disagree with the tire rule but the rules are set in stone.

Alot of people were against a forced B-Spec...so the tagline is true:

"Where endurance is as important as speed"

...how long can you A-Spec the race? That's where endurance comes into play.

[empty space] · May 19, 2006

well, if the chassis wear wasnt as bad as the tyre wear, then i probably could the entire thing (presuming there are no rules against pausing the game)

Mulsanne · May 19, 2006

Jhansen has the right idea. Voice your disagreement with the rules, but when the time comes, set that aside and enter anyway. Look, nothing is perfect. I was hoping it would be an all-LMP Le Mans. But I've accepted that others want Group C and FIA GT cars in there.

[empty space], you can still use your knowledge of car set-up to gain an advantage. If, as others have said, you can make a set of tires last longer by adjusting the suspension settings, then make a set of R1s or R2s last longer. You'll make fewer stops and gain more time on us.

Earth · May 22, 2006

Hey guys, qualifying is to start soon. I guess we can delay it for a bit until we get whos driving what down

Jhansen · May 22, 2006

It's a little troubling that three of the Race Administrators have not yet posted their entry. Set an example maybe?

Any more participants on the way? Hopefully yes!

omelettes · May 22, 2006

if nobody enters in my class can I change. I would rather use the one I have but if it is me and another person I would like more competition. Hopefully more people will sign up. This is going to be fun.

Jhansen · May 22, 2006

Yeah, considering the interest at present, maybe narrow it down to one or two classes. Maybe LMP1 and GT1 seeing as we're on Le Sarthe 1.

Edit: when will the qualifying thread be posted?