JGTC S4 Discussion/Ideas Thread

I've been waiting for S3. I think I'll have to give this championship a whirl!
 
I'm interested in running JGTC vehicles. However, I want to know more about the different challenges, "WRS" style and all. Not sure if that would be for me but if you'd be so kind as to provide some clarification... maybe a tentitive schedule, I'd definitely think about it.

m.piedgros
 
It just means, X car on Y track that's what I ment by WRS style. Before in the JGTC you were racing one car from start to finish, this is the twist now. I'm not talking about WRS for single lap stuff. Some challenges will be multi cars choice also and so on.
 
doesnt sound as much fun as S2 but its the only place i can find that has long races so ill sign up S2 looked like a great ide a but i guess this could be fun aswell
 
Yeah, I was hoping it'd be like S2 when I saw the thread(When I first came in, there was no info :lol:). This does look interesting, just not as interesting...
 
I can't run a setup like S2 anymore, too many slackers and in the end each racing classes has 4-5 drivers only racing week after week. To top it out the weight penalty system get's all screwed up the further more people are leaving. So no choice here.
 
I've gotta admit that though this may bring more people into the series (or should I say THIS series, since this is a far cry from JGTC or yore), you may lose some of the old school. I loved the fact that I could keep my car for a long series, and the weight/power penalty did its job and kept things interesting and even. With this new series (will it be all JGTC cars at least, or will you be diversifying?) there's no continuity and sense of simulating a true race series.

I'll keep my eye on this space to see how things work out, but I'm leaning away from running again based on my first impression of what's to come.

I promise to give it fair consideration, but I'm not promising anything...

-SHig
 
I agree that the 4-5 constant racers down from 10 is a bit of a drag... I can't suggest anything that would keep peoples' interest longer though. I supppose it is possible to find a group of dedicated racers from all boards and start with 15-20 so we "slack" down to 10, but that's gonna be tough.

Worth a try? I'd like to think so. My vote is for S2 style racing, but if you're not getting the dedication you need to keep moderating, then it's your call to change things up.

Maybe Casio and I will try to throw something together in the old format and see what we get. The last thing I want is to do is to siphon off racers from your series, so if we can't all have sustaining competitions, we'll have to reconsider...

Discuss...

-SHig
 
Sorry, can't and won't run a S2 setup this time around even if this affects the number of entrants. I'm done for the moment hosting something with the "quitting factor" directly influencing the results.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the reason you're changing the format? So changing the format could still lead to low entrants, or even lower.
 
The point is not the low entry, it's the weight/penalty system influencing your performances in relation with the quitting/slacking.
 
What one needs to run a successful series is a group of good people. Not good racers... people. Even if events are finishing with guys in 20/20 only five seconds back after an hour's racing, 20th place is still last. What is unfortunate is people have egos and don't enjoy finishing mid-pack, or anywhere but first for that matter. Unfortunate that such a great looking series was ruined by immaturity.

m.piedgros
 
How's this for an idea to promote commitment: Allow racers to chose their own teammates? This way, if the 11 dedicated drivers get to chose 11 teammates that they feel are in it for the long haul, there's more than chance to guarantee that we'll all stay in it.

With random draw team selection, the drivers have less invested in dropping out. OTOH, if I know that driver x is not gonna quit on me, then we as a team will more likely stick with it.

Also, about quitters affecting the results: Team championship, sure. If your teammate bails, you're done. But for individual it would seem that the quitters just lost points. The weight penalty system MAY work better if you ALWAYS rewarded 5% for 1st and last and less from there rather than zero/1 from the middle out. That way you'll ALWAYS gain the biggest benefit from at least racing and failing even in a small field rather than shedding a % or 2 only.

My $0.02 (and I have LOT of 'em).

-SHig
 
It's all about the ratio joining at the start vs finishing the season influencing everything.

To let people pick their teams, no problem but then again you have the unfair/unbalanced team problem coming up to the surface.

You tell me right now I have 10 full teams signing up and playing until the end, no problem I'll host an S2 racing format. But the reality is anything but that. To put it in simple words, it's an impossible scenario to see unfold.

After what I've seen this season in GT500 in the participation department I'm sorry but I have 0+0 motivation in hosting again something similar with the rules & settings.
 
How about a championship where you don't "big picture race"? What I mean is host 8, 10, 12 races whatever. At the end of the year, in both GT300 and GT500 the driver with the most class wins, takes home the class championship title. As you've said, JGTC vets know what's what with these cars, so if anyone trys to pull a fast one, boom they're done. Either way. THAT is racing in the truest sense. WIN = the whole point.

m.piedgros
 
What I can do is this, run a S2 racing format but drop the current weight penalty system based on performance. Then we have option 1 and 2.

1. Drop the weight penalty system totally
2. Drop the current weight penalty system and come up with a variation, one that won't be affected by quitting/slacking and penalize the drivers who gained their extra weight at the start of the season when the number of entrants was higher.
 
From the original post... I liked the varied race lengths. The finale at Laguna Seca could be an hour long whereas a mid-season event at where-ever would only be twenty to thirty minutes. That way the endurance lovers and the people who prefer shorter "sprint" races could have their cake and eat it to. Also, events like the Suzuka 1000km should be emulated. Try to make your JGTC like the real JGTC/Super GT but with some GT Planet qualities to it.

m.piedgros
 
unfortunately, i think the weight penalty system should drop. the idea is great, but slackers don´t let that be a good thing. if we only run GT500, and with no penalty system, i´m sure we can have 10 drivers every race.

the old school will be there. and it seems that maybe one or 2 more. in gtportugal, jctraduz ran a series just with GT500, because of the lack of drivers... might work better... we can still find a permanent penalty system for the faster drivers, that way, everybody can win.
 
eatsviper4lunch
What I can do is this, run a S2 racing format but drop the current weight penalty system based on performance. Then we have option 1 and 2.

1. Drop the weight penalty system totally
2. Drop the current weight penalty system and come up with a variation, one that won't be affected by quitting/slacking and penalize the drivers who gained their extra weight at the start of the season when the number of entrants was higher.
Click to expand...

I can't see dropping the weight penalty system totally. That would just make the fast guys even faster (consistently) which would make those who fall behind early drop out. We've gotta have penalty weight to keep things interesting. Permanent penalty system will give sandbagging a role by preventing someone from dominating and ruin the incentive to push 100% all the time.

I've already proposed a modified system that would allow weight to gain/lose just as quickly with a full field vs. an empty field that would not be affected by losing drivers.

11 drivers? 5/4/3/2/1/0/-1/-2/-3/-4/-5
5 drivers? 5/4/0/-4/-5 OR 5/3/0/-3/-5 OR 5/3/0/-4/-5 (emphasizing weight LOSS over GAIN)
OR maybe have +5 for winning and then work up from the bottom from -5%?
5/-2/-3/-4/-5 ??
7 drivers would be like: 5/3/-1/-2/-3/-4/-5?

This would definitely creat a lot of different winners I think, but is it fair to the faster drivers? I guess ANY penalty weight is not fair to faster drivers in equal cars, but we're all in different cars so there's a built in inequality to overcome...

Perhaps if we always qualified at stock weight, this could make up for consistently handicapped drivers stuck at high weight?

I think that could help prevent someone from getting "pegged" at +10 AND help those that still manage to keep their weight up.

Hmmm...

-SHig
 
the answer is simple for me anyway i dont know what the old system was but heres my $.02 i think you guys are making it harder than it is

1. If your race it affects you if not then you get a wieght penalty

2. missing a race(without a reason provided) the system will hurt you(wieght penalty for not sending time unless you provide a reason)

3. Run GT500 only it will make more competitors in one class than the same amont divided by 2 (rough math)

4. Go to the S2 format or something extremely similar

5. Let people pick thier cars dont do any WRS style or X car Y track as you described it

6. Here is race format that sound fun(to me at least) and is closer to what you said in the opening thread
A. Start off with qualifying where the top X finishers get points
B. After qualifying run a 5-10 min sprint race and give out roughly half the points you do for the enduro
C. Run a silghtly shorter enduro and 40-50 min in time award regular(double the sprint points) points for this race

7. The wieght system will be based off the enduro not the sprint race

well like i said my $.02 if you wanna take my idea and twist it or whatever feel free to hope we can end up with something like S2
 
A few things.

1. Scrap the one individual car per person thing. I don't see the point, if the whole field wants to use the Woodone Supra, I don't see why they can't. The newer cars are always better anyway. Get a crap draw pick and you're got a dud car the whole season.

2. I'd like to shorten the races a tad. ~1 hour I feel is a pretty long time, especially to do a few times, as they get extremely boring as you're just lapping AI over and over. I can't remember I did a race twice in JGTC, mainly because it's usually so boring. If it was cut down to maybe 35-40 minutes. It'd get more interesting and less tedious.

3. Results have to be published on time. Not 24 hours later, not 2 days later, not 1 week later. If you're going to penalize us for submitting our times 1 second after the deadline, then at least show us the same respect back.
 
Well, having missed the original opening thread, I cannot comment on what Eats proposed for S3.:ouch:
But from the jist of the posts following it, I can guestimate that a WRS style, different car/differant track combo semi enduro series without a championship table and weight pen system was proposed.

Also I can guestimate that lots of the 'oldschool' including myself enjoy the challenge of a proper series with all that comes with it, as in S2.

So,


I would like to propose an S2 based series of the JGTC. With some changes to the way it is run, mainly to do with the handling of drivers and teams. These changes would cut down on the drop-out rates and keep the entries up each week. (in brief below)

* The same cars and classes, but multiple drivers of the same cars in both classes.
* A new and improved weight-pen system (still to be worked out)
* Use of different courses, including some not used in S2 and reverse tracks.
* Teams can be chosen by the drivers not by organiser, the weight pen system will even out the faster partnerings to still allow all teams to get a fair bite of the apple.
* Instead of single lap qualifying on certain tracks a sprint race could be used instead.
* slightly shorter main races 30-45 mins only with a couple of exceptions (TBA)
* Results will be provided within the same hour of the deadline(exceptional circumstances aside) and back-up will be provided if those RL problems do occur!



As to drop-outs and such!

* Teams can utilise 'temporary' drivers to allow for holidays and illnesses, and the points gained will go to the team & constructor's championships.
* A team where one of the drivers has to drop out CAN draft in a new driver. The new driver's points will count towards the team championship and constructor's championship. But obviously the new driver cannot gain the old driver's points in the driver's championship. This happens in RL teams so it should happen on here, IMO!
* If a team driver has a good reason to drop out of a team, such as new work commitments, family problems etc, then they can if they wish remain in the driver's championship as a part-time driver, and a new team-mate can take up the slack.
* New driver's can join the series part-way through, as part-timer's and would be eligable to join a team if required or desired.

This is not a slight on you Eats, not at all, honestly!

But it seems to me and others that a continuation of the series in the 'sort-of' same format is what we want.
If you can't or won't continue with the same gusto and enthusiasm as you did in the beginning, then that shouldn't mean that such a successful series should die out.

To be honest I didn't want to announce my intention until I had EVERY detail worked out, and all the wrinkles smoothed away. But there you go!

If Eats want's to impliment my ideas and keep running the series, I honestly don't mind. But, if he can't/won't do it, then I will gladly take the plunge and keep the series going in the format I am proposing.

Please feel free to PM me with any ideas, comments etc. And keep posting here too, as Eats may be encouraged by the response.
The intention here is not to push Eats out, or userp his control over the series. It is to keep the series going strong, if not stronger, for the enjoyement of all, old and new!

Neil
 
Neil,

I'm in if it goes down like you describe. I've suggested a guest driver system in the past and I like the idea. The replacement driver idea for a team is GREAT!

The 1-hour results window that Casio suggested is key, as is a backup submission if it becomes clear that it will not be honored.

Also, perhaps we could do one drop race? Least amount of points in one weekend doesn't count so if you suck or if you slack and don't submit ONCE, it doesn't hurt you.

I am biased against reverse courses though just to be against something. It's been rather refreshing to continue "normal" for a change vs. WRS with its reverse courses, but I'm just being difficult :). I WOULD like to do more city courses however, and MAYBE a longer season.

Someone mentioned sprint race qualifying (with more points awarded for qual) which I like. Maybe spec tire and no wear? 5-10 laps? And maybe the margin of qual advantage could be reduced from your final "race" time to simulate track position advantage in the real race?

Shorter races I can take or leave. I like the length of race because I like to race, but I would welcome a reduction to 35-45 minutes.

I like the direction this is going! Should be fun...

-SHig
 
Not sure if this has been cemented. But, teams should be more like the real series. No GT300 GT500 combos, that would never happen as the two classes are based on two different style teams. GT500 - Manufacturer and Manufacturer Funded Teams. GT300 - Privateer and non-homolgation standard cars (some with pretty severe air restrictors, 'Vette, Ford GT etc).

I propose we try to run a series as closely based on the real championship as possible because that in itself will attract some drivers. Of coruse, we definitely need a GT Planet friendly rule book. (I suppose the car list is really my biggest concern.)

m.piedgros

I suppose I didn't make this clear. I am 100% in favor of what I see from Neil!
 
racefan88501
you gotta have at least mild tyre wear it makes it more like a real race spec tire and mild wear sonds good though
Click to expand...

At the beginning of this year I felt the same, but with only an hour race, if you use mild wear, you really reduce the options for strategy. For a 2 hour race I'd be for it, but I like the 2-7 pit-in option we currently have. Also, with shorter races, it'll further affect strategy options.

That said, I may try this week's race on mild wear to see what it's like.

What does mild do BTW? Double tire life?

Also, I like the team aspect. Sure it's not "real" but it stimulates competition and cameraderie. Besides, it shouldn't affect how a driver competes in their own class in any way.

-SHig
 
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