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  • Thread starter zer05ive
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That's pretty much my stance, Rally.

I guess more of the issue is whether or not you can use "late" braking to overtake. As long as you keep it clean and stick to your portion of the racing line, the answer, per GT5 License tests and the GTP OLR, is yes. Therefore it's our position, too.
 
Apmaddock
That's pretty much my stance, Rally.

I guess more of the issue is whether or not you can use "late" braking to overtake. As long as you keep it clean and stick to your portion of the racing line, the answer, per GT5 License tests and the GTP OLR, is yes. Therefore it's our position, too.
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It's a thin line though. If I'm getting passed and see that I can't hold my line without contact and the one passing me has made it clear they are not going to pull back, then I will back off and essentially concede the position. It gives the illusion of a clean pass but I would rather lose one position willingly instead of taking a stance on principle (OLR) and let someone punt me into the sand, only to get that single position back, which now means nothing as half the field has passed both of us.
 
Agreed. I'll always take the conservative line when I can and let off of the throttle well before a braking point if I'm close behind someone. I figure my time will come, and it normally does in D2. D1 may be a different story. ;)
 
I like post #5631

I have a great example of this that I'll try to record and post if I can figure a way to "change the names to protect the innocent."
 
esh
It's a thin line though. If I'm getting passed and see that I can't hold my line without contact and the one passing me has made it clear they are not going to pull back, then I will back off and essentially concede the position. It gives the illusion of a clean pass but I would rather lose one position willingly instead of taking a stance on principle (OLR) and let someone punt me into the sand, only to get that single position back, which now means nothing as half the field has passed both of us.
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To me the late brake maneuver is a desperation move, the passer has not found a chink in the armour of the passee or it's late in the race and the passer feels a need to make something happen. It can work, usually only with cooperation by the passee. When this has happened to me, I usually try the under cut as a response, as the passer is likely going to go wide and I may carry more speed out of the corner.
 
On the other hand, though, cheeb, if a person can brake later than the person in front while maintaining a safe driving line, that earlier braking is the chink in their armor.

Congratulations, S.N.A.I.L., on becoming the most talked about league on the forum!
 
Apmaddock
On the other hand, though, cheeb, if a person can brake later than the person in front while maintaining a safe driving line, that earlier braking is the chink in their armor.
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No doubt it can be done, but there's a few if's that need to fall in line, one of them doesn't and we could now be in review mode :)

Apmaddock
Congratulations, S.N.A.I.L., on becoming the most talked about league on the forum!
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👍
 
esh
It's a thin line though.
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Thin line for sure. If I'm at my turn-in point and I see someone on my inside (but not enough overlap) - I will turn-in unless I think that they missed the braking point completely and are probably going to run out of track before they stop on their own. In that case I wait and brake some more ;). If they overcooked a corner just a bit and I don't turn-in to avoid minor contact - more often than not I won't get my place back, on the other hand if there was minor rubbage people back-off more willingly.
 
kcheeb
To me the late brake maneuver is a desperation move, the passer has not found a chink in the armour of the passee or it's late in the race and the passer feels a need to make something happen. It can work, usually only with cooperation by the passee. When this has happened to me, I usually try the under cut as a response, as the passer is likely going to go wide and I may carry more speed out of the corner.
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Apmaddock
On the other hand, though, cheeb, if a person can brake later than the person in front while maintaining a safe driving line, that earlier braking is the chink in their armor.

Congratulations, S.N.A.I.L., on becoming the most talked about league on the forum!
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kcheeb
No doubt it can be done, but there's a few if's that need to fall in line, one of them doesn't and we could now be in review mode :)



👍
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dsgerbc
Thin line for sure. If I'm at my turn-in point and I see someone on my inside (but not enough overlap) - I will turn-in unless I think that they missed the braking point completely and are probably going to run out of track before they stop on their own. In that case I wait and brake some more ;). If they overcooked a corner just a bit and I don't turn-in to avoid minor contact - more often than not I won't get my place back, on the other hand if there was minor rubbage people back-off more willingly.
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I agree with Maddock. And maybe I jsut watch to much Initial D, but late braking is a tool to use jsut as much as neutral steering and throttle control. This is just brake control instead. I'm in no way trying to defend dive bombing. but lets say your cruising down the front straight at Tsukuba, right behind the lead driver. your just a touch faster from the draft, so just as your coming up to the first turn, you pop off to the right and brake a bit later. Beofre reaching the turn in point, you now have the proper overlap. IDK about you, but Im sticking to the pass. So long as both drivers hold their line and the pass is clean, that a wrap. Now if the lead driver cuts down into the trailing drivers line, or the trailing driver understeers and runs up into the lead drivers line, well, thats a no go and then either is open to steward review. But its all part of the race. I guess its just the difference in opinions though. I'm an aggressive driver, I will admit. Just ask Maddock, we trade lots of paint. I dont think I have lost him a position with it though. And I have only bumped him a couple of times enough to take him off his line. Thats more from my inexperience though, and from the fact that the "bumper" is further out in bumper cam then it really should be (its bumper cam PD, the camera is the bumper, not 3 feet in front of the car!). But thats my tactic when I race. I want to be all over the car infront of my. I want the driver to know I'm there and putting on the heat. If the driver is stressing me,, then hes not going to be full focused on the track, and that leads to mistakes that I can then capitalize on. I try my hardest not to touch, and not to bump and trade paint. and I never take a spot if any contact is made what so ever. But I'm also not going to back down and whimp out because someone else cant handle the pressure.
 
Sounds like a scenario I've experienced a few times before, Rally. :D

Often, and if the turn is sharp enough, the guy who was in the front and takes the outside line manages to hold his position, because he's got the outside line and can carry higher speed. Then it comes down to the next straight and turn, but at least you've made him sweat you just that much more.
 
Rallywagon
but lets say your cruising down the front straight at Tsukuba, right behind the lead driver. your just a touch faster from the draft, so just as your coming up to the first turn, you pop off to the right and brake a bit later. Beofre reaching the turn in point, you now have the proper overlap.
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Just a heads up then - in the Miata (and most slow cars) in that corner personally I turn first and then maybe brake a bit, so zero chance of OLR-legal overlap there unless I screw-up the hairpin exit. ;)
 
Rallywagon
I agree with Maddock. And maybe I jsut watch to much Initial D, but late braking is a tool to use jsut as much as neutral steering and throttle control. This is just brake control instead. I'm in no way trying to defend dive bombing. but lets say your cruising down the front straight at Tsukuba, right behind the lead driver. your just a touch faster from the draft, so just as your coming up to the first turn, you pop off to the right and brake a bit later. Beofre reaching the turn in point, you now have the proper overlap. IDK about you, but Im sticking to the pass. So long as both drivers hold their line and the pass is clean, that a wrap. Now if the lead driver cuts down into the trailing drivers line, or the trailing driver understeers and runs up into the lead drivers line, well, thats a no go and then either is open to steward review. But its all part of the race. I guess its just the difference in opinions though. I'm an aggressive driver, I will admit. Just ask Maddock, we trade lots of paint. I dont think I have lost him a position with it though. And I have only bumped him a couple of times enough to take him off his line. Thats more from my inexperience though, and from the fact that the "bumper" is further out in bumper cam then it really should be (its bumper cam PD, the camera is the bumper, not 3 feet in front of the car!). But thats my tactic when I race. I want to be all over the car infront of my. I want the driver to know I'm there and putting on the heat. If the driver is stressing me,, then hes not going to be full focused on the track, and that leads to mistakes that I can then capitalize on. I try my hardest not to touch, and not to bump and trade paint. and I never take a spot if any contact is made what so ever. But I'm also not going to back down and whimp out because someone else cant handle the pressure.
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I agree 100%. I wasn't trying to say don't, just be aware of the consequences and difficulty in making it work to plan.

I'm a little less aggressive but do like to make my presence known or some such Bull Durham reference. I love putting pressure on this way and hate it when someone else does it to me ;) If I start the feint and the passee makes a mistake, I'm through. If they don't, I have a way out, because I planned it that way.
 
And if I cant get the overlap, then I have no rights and will have to concede the line, pretty basic really. I think people are sweating the details to much. its simple, have the overlap, or give up the line.
 
Haha, you said Bull Durham, and this guy is the first thing that came to mind
images

Love Night Court.
 
Man, talk about getting off base. Handle was asking basically whats an acceptible amount of rub? Handle, the answer really is none. You should aspire to not trade paint. However, in the course of a race, this doesnt always happen. at which point you need to use your better judgement. Did you, or the other driver cause the contact, was the contact enough to cause you or the other driver to go off course. If its just a little touch and nothing bad came of it, then no foul. Keep on racing. If it did, and your at fault, then dont take the position. if they did it to you, keep on racing. if they didnt concede the position. then follow the complaint process in a timely manner and it will get figured out. The honest bottom line is that no contact should be made when racing (outside of bump drafting). But if it does, then use adult decisions to decide if it really warrents any worry. No ones gonna get butt hurt if some rubbing is going on. So long as its not causing anyone a race, or position.
 
Fun fact: Posts in the SNAIL thread account for 10% of all responses in Clubs & Leagues section for last TEN YEARS!! :lol:
 
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Congrats to you Zero. For all the hard work you put in, must feel good to know you got the most active league around. And a special thanks to Cheeb, Garris, and all the SNAILs both behind the scenes and on the track. We are AWESOME!
 
Rally, first of all, that's Bull Shannon. Bull Durham was a baseball movie with Kevin Costner playing a minor league catcher on the way out. Really a good movie if anyone hasn't seen it, I recommend it.

You should post my pass on you at Tsukuba. It may serve as a pretty good example of how to execute a pass under late braking. I know I used this move at least three times in that race.
 
Jeez! how could I forget that epic move! I'll get that youtubed tonight. good call. That was the second race right? Hope thats not the one I'm missing.
 
Rallywagon
Jeez! how could I forget that epic move! I'll get that youtubed tonight. good call. That was the second race right? Hope thats not the one I'm missing.
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It's the second race. If you don't have it, let me know and I can send it to you.
 
BeRandom and I had a slurry of good passes on each other as we fought it out through most of the first race. Give that a look, too, if you're searching for smiley face moments.
 
Rallywagon
Man, talk about getting off base. Handle was asking basically whats an acceptible amount of rub? Handle, the answer really is none. You should aspire to not trade paint. However, in the course of a race, this doesnt always happen. at which point you need to use your better judgement. Did you, or the other driver cause the contact, was the contact enough to cause you or the other driver to go off course. If its just a little touch and nothing bad came of it, then no foul. Keep on racing. If it did, and your at fault, then dont take the position. if they did it to you, keep on racing. if they didnt concede the position. then follow the complaint process in a timely manner and it will get figured out. The honest bottom line is that no contact should be made when racing (outside of bump drafting). But if it does, then use adult decisions to decide if it really warrents any worry. No ones gonna get butt hurt if some rubbing is going on. So long as its not causing anyone a race, or position.
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This was pretty much what I figured. The videos from the Capp Cup (won by dsgrbc, I see...congrats!) were illuminating. I am generally seeing some aggressiveness on the passing moves, but not so much I need a steward review for now, I guess.

I refrain from any specifics only because I wasn't sure how things worked out.

Great info and replies, thanks.
 
Hey guys, I'm interested in attending the tutoring session on Thursday, both to practice racing, and to test my connection.

I'm assuming it starts at ten, and if so, how long does it last? I might leave a bit before 11 because that might be when I run the first test race of the 1 Lap Magic series (shameless plug).

Just wondering what the format is and if it allows for leaving early or if there's a specific schedule with something important in the last few minutes before 11.
 
Apmaddock
BeRandom and I had a slurry of good passes on each other as we fought it out through most of the first race. Give that a look, too, if you're searching for smiley face moments.
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I'm gonna have a look at that myself. My mind was not at all in the right place for racing. So it's good to hear I gave a good clean fight.
 
BeRandom
I'm gonna have a look at that myself. My mind was not at all in the right place for racing.
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I actually haven't gone back to look at it, yet, but as I remember it was a really good fight. I think I had to pass you at least twice before it stuck. Even then it may not have if it had gone another lap.

Your mind being in the wrong place might well have been what gave me the edge! :P
 
I am officially back, so you can put me on the drivers list thingy. Had fun last sunday, wasn't expecting to win any races but got lucky at Tsukuba, sucked at the rest though.
 

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