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[jobyone]

Hey all you S.N.A.I.L.s,

Just a quick reminder that the Performance Cap Racing is happening in the D3 Lounge tonight. We have 8 signed up so that leaves 8 spots open. We are having a great time and I highly recommend giving it a try. If you want to but are unsure of what cars to use feel free to use my list as I will not be racing tonight. It is a pretty solid list with only the MR2 being a bit weak.

Mitsubishi FTO GP Version R '99 - 411
Audi S3 '02 - 412
Subaru BR-Z S ’12 - 413
Toyota MR2 1600 G '86 - 359

Those cars took me to a 5 way tie for first in our last event

If you are going to create your on list please make sure to check the PP values on the Known PP tab of the S.N.A.I.L. Performance Cap Series spreadsheet that can be found here.

 

[TEX36]

I think the McLaren is allergic to grass....

Quite the contrary - I think the F1 likes grass so much that one whiff, one touch ..... and it wants/demands MORE - so it takes us on a tour of the next 12 acres. Which only ends when we hit something to stop the tour.

 

[TEX36]

IMHO ....... (In my humble opinion - for those of us that aren't quite ready for abbreviated english and conversations)

I would like to suggest, in the Open Thread, a suggestion for increasing our attendance on Sunday nights:

1) GT-5 stumbled(?) onto a "sure thing" when they rewarded us for logging on "every day" - 10 paint chips and 200% of credits won;

2) It is time for SNAIL to appeal to that same "need/want" in our drivers. Reward "us" for attending every week, entering each race (not completing, entering .... takes care of disconnects that are not the fault of the driver). Reward the driver for being there all four weeks - even though you toss the low score.

I'm sure it will draw more, maybe not all, but it will "remind" us each week.

Maybe you could even have an increasing "reward" for successive weeks: 1pt the 1st Sun - 2 pts the 2nd ....... etc. But back to 1pt if they skip a week.

These are just thoughts to get the conversation going - maybe be the springboard for the Best Idea. The goal being to increase the numbers in the events. Racing in a 12-16 car event is tremendously more exciting, and rewarding, than when there are only 5. IMHO (sheeesh, there I go again)
Tex

 

[Handlebar]

Tex and I were brainstorming attendance improvement ideas the other day. One idea we both had was adding a couple points - say 4? 5? for every week the driver raced all races.* These 'bonus' points would go to the monthly total, or be added to the single highest score. Drivers could get points for all four weeks of participation added to the bottom line.

The desired effect on scoring was to be small, but large enough to wiggle a tiny bit up above a driver who participated less if racing scores were tied. This is intended to reward drivers for fully participating in all four weeks when possible, and provide a tangible, but small incentive to continue to show up. The points margin for participation needed to be small enough or it would overly penalize racers who must miss one race in a month. Not too big, not too small.

* If someone is racing, and disco's and is coming back, and is still trying to race, I'd personally give them credit for doing their best to fully participate. This was intended to reward someone who's trying to race the entire night, not just drop by for 1-2 races.

Open to other ideas and suggestions as always. Let's fill up these grids!

 

[the2armedmen]

i think putting it down to 4 divisions could work, that and having people that dont compete every week and just join occasionally to take points rom people that are trying to win a season is kind o annoying. just putting it out there

 

[Apmaddock]

I don't think that adding a couple of points when someone shows up consistently will change much in the way of participation. Most of the people who race here do so because they love it and the points are way out of their mind.

i think putting it down to 4 divisions could work, that and having people that dont compete every week and just join occasionally to take points rom people that are trying to win a season is kind o annoying. just putting it out there

I disagree. I don't think it's time to contract. More divisions will make sure that the racers in each division are closely matched. Your second point doesn't make sense. You can't "take points" from people in any sense of the argument.


I actually really enjoyed the McLaren. The starts were silly but it just takes a little practice to fix that, it's not that unpredictable.

 

[Rallywagon]

Did you guys see that they found the real deep forest raceway? Here.

 

[JESter82178]

This from can old fart. But has anyone thought of starting at 9:00 pm est rather than 10:00 est. I missed this week knowing I was going to be wiped out over lack of sleep.

You all have been running this for a long time and maybe you have found that 10:00 pm is the ideal time. If so disregard this suggestion. I am just throwing it out there on a personal level.

This being said I signed up knowing it was going to be 10:00 and I will continue to race at that time whenever extenuating circumstances don't exclude my participation.

 

[zer05ive]

I like any idea that will increase attendance, but I'm not sure if adding "participation points" is the way to go. My fear is that the points championships would be perceived (at least in part) as a participation championship and not a racing championship.

The ability for someone to drop their lowest score for the month is already a significant "bonus" for those that are able to attend all four weeks in a season. I feel like those who want to take advantage of that "bonus" are already doing so. Therefore, I'm not sure that adding additional "participation points" is going to provide enough extra incentive for someone to race when they otherwise wouldn't.

That being said, I do think we need to address the gradually decreasing grid sizes. In my opinion, it's just a sign that GT5 is showing it's age a little. After all, the game was launched two and half years ago and has had a minimal amount of DLC to keep things fresh. And while we might see some increased participation if/when GT Academy returns, we're not likely to see a significant boost in membership until GT6 launches.

Contraction is something that we've discussed behind the scenes before, but have opted not to because reviewing the list of active drivers always indicates that there is more than enough to support five divisions. Unfortunately, that hasn't always translated to full grids this past season. It's been kinda hit and miss..

So what is everyone's thoughts on contraction to four divisions. The upside of contraction is fuller grids, but the downside is that there is a slightly wider span of skill level on the track. What's more important to all of you? I'd like everyone to chime in on this topic because it affects all of us.

 

[OwensRacing]

This from can old fart. But has anyone thought of starting at 9:00 pm est rather than 10:00 est. I missed this week knowing I was going to be wiped out over lack of sleep.

You all have been running this for a long time and maybe you have found that 10:00 pm is the ideal time. If so disregard this suggestion. I am just throwing it out there on a personal level.

This being said I signed up knowing it was going to be 10:00 and I will continue to race at that time whenever extenuating circumstances don't exclude my participation.

I'd love. LOVE to start an hour earlier. By the last combo I'm wiped out and it shows in my driving.

As for going into four divisions. It will promote larger rooms but how do you divide this.

Split Div four and div two? Top of div 2 goes to D1. Bottom half goes to D3. Then in D4 same deal. So the old D3 be the new D2?

 

[dangerzone641]

Well in D2 last night we had 13 racers for the first two combos and then after the vette, we lost a few because of the F1, but still had 11

 

[nmcp1]

I'd love. LOVE to start an hour earlier. By the last combo I'm wiped out and it shows in my driving.

I'm in for this as well. As JESter82178 said above I signed up knowing full well what the rules were and it's on me to deal with that but I hate getting to midnight, submitting my vote and running "out the door". okgottagobyenow!!!

As far as going to 4 divisions I'd be up for that. Of course last night was the most cars on track I've seen since joining.... go figure.

 

[Apmaddock]

I'd like to start an hour later.

…actually 30 minutes later would be just about perfect.

 

[jobyone]

I'd love. LOVE to start an hour earlier. By the last combo I'm wiped out and it shows in my driving.

As for going into four divisions. It will promote larger rooms but how do you divide this.

Split Div four and div two? Top of div 2 goes to D1. Bottom half goes to D3. Then in D4 same deal. So the old D3 be the new D2?

I like the idea of it running earlier but mainly if we would then run one later for us west coasters like me that find it hard to commit to 7:00pm PST start time. If the main divisions ran ar 9:00pm est maybe we could have a west coast division that started at 8:00pm PST. That might allow for some more racers to join. And also allow you east coasters to get to bed a bit earlier.

I also feel that going down to 4 divisions seems to be smart for the moment. A bit of consolidation might be good for the next season or two.

 

[Luv2Coach]

I don't think I've been here long enough for a division breakdown opinion. As for start time, I'm good with an hour earlier.

 

[Apmaddock]

Having two time slots would not divide by division but by location. That would make the competition more spread out, which is not what people are looking for here.

Moving things an hour earlier would put the races directly in the middle of dinnertime for west coast types.

I wouldn't change a thing regarding that.

Sigh.

 

[TEX36]

Did you guys see that they found the real deep forest raceway? Here.

Thanks for that link ........... gets a person out of the virtual for a few minutes.

 

[TEX36]

Having two time slots would not divide by division but by location. That would make the competition more spread out, which is not what people are looking for here.

Moving things an hour earlier would put the races directly in the middle of dinnertime for west coast types.

I wouldn't change a thing regarding that.

Sigh.

So then we are back to finding a way to appeal to "man's base instinct" .... "I want something - even if I don't win".

Yes, we would hope that members were purists and interested only in racing and its just rewards. But GT-5 knew they had to find a way to get people to log on "everyday" ....... once in - the tendancy to stay would be strong. The Seasonals, Academy competitions, etc. were also incentives to keep participating.

SNAIL leadership is also aware of what draws drivers to compete.

No harm in giving the "incentive approach" a probationary trial - see what happens.

Not arguing ...... just discussing the ideas.

 

[JLBowler]

I took a quick look to see how many drivers have shown up for at least 2 of the 4 race nights for the last three months. Here's what I found:

D1: 14, 11, and 8 in Dec, Jan, and Feb. Feb might be a little off becasue last nights isn't in there yet.

D2: 9, 12, and 13
D3: 11, 9, and 9
D4: 13, 10, and 10
D5: 10, 10, and 9

When it comes right down to it, we can't force guys to show up. We all have other things in out lives that do come up. The problem I see with contraction is that we would could very easily get into a situation where we have more "active" drivers assigned to a division than we can get into a lobby.

If Kronin, Panda, and Turbocivic (all of these guys ran at least twice this month) had all shown up in D2 last night, it would have meant 16 drivers for the 15 spots in the lobby. My thinking is that if the league contracted to four divisions, we could run up against this problem rather easily just becasue we don't know who is going to show up when.

I have a fix that would always give us full grids but it would involve way too many changes to the league that has worked so well for so long so I'm not even going to get into that on the forum. If anyone is interested in hearing my ramblings, talk to me in a lobby sometime.

 

[Apmaddock]

I was thinking the same things, Bowler, but I was too lazy and/or busy to find the hard numbers. heh

 

[hillracing]

I think going down to 4 divisions isn't a bad idea. The grids in D1 have been a little small the last few months and I'd like to have more people to race against. As far as awarding attendance I don't know about that. For me I always race unless real life gets in the way. I had something come up last min last night or I would have raced. I think the thing to look at is why are our numbers dropping? We should look and see when they started to drop and what was changed around that time. I'm guessing we did something as there seems to have been a lot of changes over time. Anyways that's my .02

 

[TEX36]

I was thinking the same things, Bowler, but I was too lazy and/or busy to find the hard numbers. heh

Div 5 started with 9 ......... 2 left, making it 7 drivers ......... and 2 of those did not have the Motegi, leaving 5 for two of the 6 races.
Just reporting, not disagreeing.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

This from can old fart. But has anyone thought of starting at 9:00 pm est rather than 10:00 est. I missed this week knowing I was going to be wiped out over lack of sleep.

You all have been running this for a long time and maybe you have found that 10:00 pm is the ideal time. If so disregard this suggestion. I am just throwing it out there on a personal level.

This being said I signed up knowing it was going to be 10:00 and I will continue to race at that time whenever extenuating circumstances don't exclude my participation.

👍

I'd love. LOVE to start an hour earlier. By the last combo I'm wiped out and it shows in my driving.
?

👍

I'm in for this as well. As JESter82178 said above I signed up knowing full well what the rules were and it's on me to deal with that but I hate getting to midnight, submitting my vote and running "out the door". okgottagobyenow!!!

As far as going to 4 divisions I'd be up for that. Of course last night was the most cars on track I've seen since joining.... go figure.

👍

In my case, the time slot is the sole reason I stopped attending. By the time I settled down from the racing and watched replays it was 0200 local. Made for very grumpy Mondays.

I'd like to start an hour later.

…actually 30 minutes later would be just about perfect.

👎

Having two time slots would not divide by division but by location. That would make the competition more spread out, which is not what people are looking for here.

👍

Moving things an hour earlier would put the races directly in the middle of dinnertime for west coast types.

I wouldn't change a thing regarding that.

Sigh.

👎

What's the breakdown of drivers' locations?

While I agree that having time zone divisions would allow more folks to participate at an hour that is more reasonable for their respective lives, I don't think there are enough drivers across the board to support even medium sized grids. It would be cool if there were, then you could have quarterly time zone championships.

I would most certainly start showing up again for a 2100 start time. What about 30 minutes earlier?

 

[ExoSphere64]

Something else to factor in is how many of our drivers have school to tend with? I haven't looked but I would bet that our summer grid numbers are higher because of it...

 

[racefan78]

i think putting it down to 4 divisions could work, that and having people that dont compete every week and just join occasionally to take points rom people that are trying to win a season is kind o annoying. just putting it out there

I agree there is an issue with drivers who show up only once and while and take wins/points away from the regulars. Unfortunately I don't really see what we can do about this. Docking them points won't matter because if they don't show up on a regular basis they clearly aren't doing it for points. I think that's just something we'll have to put up with. And having a few extra cars on the grid now and then isn't a bad thing.

To adress the idea of contraction, I'm against it. Although it sucks that we aren't getting full grids, I think from a logistical standpoint a small field is a lot easier to deal with than an overflowing one. And, as long as the racing in each division is close (which it is) you don't really notice the small grid size so much. You'll be doing much more close racing in with 7 of your peers than in a lobby with 14 people of unequal speed.

Did you guys see that they found the real deep forest raceway? Here.

That was a really interesting read. It'd be really cool if someone restored the circuit, especially since I live within driving distance, but I know that's unlikely

 

[GranStand Bill]

I'll throw my 2 cents into the bigger grid conversation... I have also been thinking about it a good amount as well.

What if we qualified for division placement every week (i.e. same as we do when you sign up for SNAIL, except we would do it every week) using the lap time from one of the week’s combos, or a combined lap time from all of the week’s combos. So we would have to send in our lap times to the race organizers sometime before Sunday, and then they can assign everyone to a division for Sunday. I realize this is probably a lot more work for the organizers, but I think it would keep the grids full.

This would also make an overall points championship easier to keep track of. For instance first place in D1 gets 100 points, second place gets 99 (or some multiple less than the first place finisher), first place in D2 gets 84 points (assuming there are 16 people in D1), second in D2 gets 83 points, so forth and so on.

I think this would also help incentivize racing because now you are not just racing against people in your division you are racing against everybody in SNAIL points wise. Who knows this might even tempt some Sim Racing companies to put up some sweet prizes for winners…

Sound off…

 

[hillracing]

I'll throw my 2 cents into the bigger grid conversation... I have also been thinking about it a good amount as well.

What if we qualified for division placement every week (i.e. same as we do when you sign up for SNAIL, except we would do it every week) using the lap time from one of the week’s combos, or a combined lap time from all of the week’s combos. So we would have to send in our lap times to the race organizers sometime before Sunday, and then they can assign everyone to a division for Sunday. I realize this is probably a lot more work for the organizers, but I think it would keep the grids full.

This would also make an overall points championship easier to keep track of. For instance first place in D1 gets 100 points, second place gets 99 (or some multiple less than the first place finisher), first place in D2 gets 84 points (assuming there are 16 people in D1), second in D2 gets 83 points, so forth and so on.

I think this would also help incentivize racing because now you are not just racing against people in your division you are racing against everybody in SNAIL points wise. Who knows this might even tempt some Sim Racing companies to put up some sweet prizes for winners…

Sound off…

I kinda like this idea but with some adjustments. Maybe time trial for division each month and have it be a three week season with the fourth week being a race for the months over all championship. You take the top 3 from each division and have a race. For everyone else you would have races for the 4th-6th, 7th-9th, 10th-12 and the rest from each division. Seems like it could be fun and give any division a chance at winning the month. Also once a month you'd get a chance to compare yourself to the other divisions.

 

[Rallywagon]

Something else to factor in is how many of our drivers have school to tend with? I haven't looked but I would bet that our summer grid numbers are higher because of it...

This its a gear point and one i was thinking at the beginning of this topic. How many more people will be here and actively racing over the once schools let out? We contract just to have to reinstate the 5th division again in may/June?
Oh and I've always been a fan of starting an hour earlier. Screw you west coasters and your dinners. i got a need i like to see before 1am.

 

[jobyone]

Having two time slots would not divide by division but by location. That would make the competition more spread out, which is not what people are looking for here.

This its a gear point and one i was thinking at the beginning of this topic. How many more people will be here and actively racing over the once schools let out? We contract just to have to reinstate the 5th division again in may/June?
Oh and I've always been a fan of starting an hour earlier. Screw you west coasters and your dinners. i got a need i like to see before 1am.

No one likes us west coasters. One thing I will say is S.N.A.I.L. started with one division and look where it is now. Sure if a group of west coasters were in a division the field would be more spread out but if we were able to attract a few more people then we could start expanding. For me a one hour later time would mean I could join you again on Sundays

 

[Apmaddock]

30 minutes earlier would put me out of the league. It's as simple as that. I'm already at the far end of what I can stretch.

On the other hand, 30 minutes later and I could join a few mid-week events.

An hour later and I could join most of them!

Stop watching replays right after the races if you want to get to bed by midnight.

Also, tex, I knew that several left. Unfortunately D5 is the most volatile when it comes to things like that.