1.04 update - Physics changes - Your impressions?

I will have to say that this certainly makes GT6 an adventure. :D

core systems that affect the very foundation of the game should not (change), and most developers know this, its a cardinal rule.

I can't say for certain anything changed, but for the 4wd mechanics to get messed up proves someone was doing something under the hood...
Yeah, this is a problem. What I would hope PD does is come up with a basic physics model that works well enough for everything and makes sense, and leave it at that, while they tinker like mad scientists for months on the fundamental physics and kinetics algorithms. If it means a step back for the most part, do it. Rather than give us nice surprise incremental updates along the way which might upset some, just keep tinkering and tweaking. Then when a substantial breakthrough is made, drop the big one on us and let us adjust to it. And as some keep mentioning online physics vs offline, put some extra effort to make this a non-issue.

While I like the updates, for the most part, I can sympathize with the tuners and hardcore tuner users. Getting an update that makes it seem that some hooligan messed up your car isn't the way to move forward.
 
I've just tried 0-0 abs on a Formula GT using a G27 (0 camber on both sides, 0 toe on rear and -0.10 on front with low acceleration sensitivity) and its way better now, and in fact its quite fun and feels more realistic, e.g. you can apply high braking at high speeds and if you do so at lower speeds it locks up as it should.
 
I'm going to post twice, right now I'm talking about the online physics (I'm hoping Seasonal TTs are using online) with a DS3, in a couple of days I'll have access to my G27 where I can compare the online and offline physics there.

So far, the Seasonal TTs are just horrid with my DS3, I can barely make silver, let alone gold, I'm sure if I sat there for 50 laps (and didn't kill someone in the process), I might be able to get a gold time eventually, but coming from every update before 1.04 on GT5 and GT6, where I'd do the TT and make Gold on the first or second flying start, this seems like a huge change, and imo, a big step backwards, cars are understeering a heap more, then when you go to neutralize it with more gas, its just bang into oversteer (GT-86, Mercedes VGT, XKR-S, and definately the Vette concept thing).

I guess the only fair comparison is to see in a day or two if I can beat my current DS3 times with my G27, AND, how much faster I am (hopefully) offline on the same tracks with the same cars, as I am online in the TTs. Honestly, I hope its all the same and I'm just as slow, but with the G27 I can atleast make gold on the seasonals, because I would really dislike a disparity between Online and Offline phyics for Seasonals (happy for this to all be in my head as well).

I didn't really pay attention to the Gold times until the Jag TT but the requirements are much tighter for that TT than they were in GT5. I think it was 1:16.500 and the best I could manage without SRF was 1:12.3 and that was after tuning and 20-30 laps and I consider myself a decent pilot. Without SRF that's a pretty narrow window if you aren't a fairly skilled driver and even with SRF it's still pretty tight for a lot of guys.
 
I didn't really pay attention to the Gold times until the Jag TT but the requirements are much tighter for that TT than they were in GT5. I think it was 1:16.500 and the best I could manage without SRF was 1:12.3 and that was after tuning and 20-30 laps and I consider myself a decent pilot. Without SRF that's a pretty narrow window if you aren't a fairly skilled driver and even with SRF it's still pretty tight for a lot of guys.
Yeah, it's a bit concerning that you can even use SRF in TT's as the leaderboard competition even encourages good pilots to use it just to rank higher on the leaderboard.
 
Have to disagree with you there. If the update improves realism, I couldn't care less what people think of it.
Well...... perfect updates, sure. ;) But a "perfect" update with any developer isn't as common as I'd like, and it seems that PD's physics engine has a funny balance. Change one thing, and then something else gets wonky. I can see this as a sign of a very advanced physics model, and do because the 1.01 behavior was amazing in the lower powered cars like the Fitt.

I'm all for the updates too, as long as it doesn't stress and crack the mirror somewhere.
 
I've found that camber works. It definitely helps me with faster, more stable turns than camber 0.0. Some have suggested that front camber actually affects the rear tires still, but I don't think this is the case anymore.
 
If you don't like the updates, tough. I'm pretty sure the idea is to improve the game and improve realism, not pander to the bookoos of Prestige Worldwide tuners. I'm fairly confident that even Kaz himself isn't concerned with your now "ruined" garage full of bogus tunes. I figure updates can affect physics in general (e.g. polar moment of inertia calculations) or even tuning changes (e.g. damper tuning effects). I primarily don't tune (waste of time with the flawed system in current form) and have not noticed a significant change in physics since day 1.
My bogus tunes? Sorry that I play the game the way I want to instead of running the same car around. If Kaz isn't concerned, then he shouldn't make cars tunable so that's a silly comment. As a matter of fact, why do you think there is an A,B,and C option for tunes. You deciding not to tune is your own issue. I'm not asking to be pandered to. I want decent physics and then leave them alone because like it was said before, it's the core of the game. There isn't even a discussion about IF things have changed. Awd became messed up out of nowhere. Wheelspin off track has varied. Allowed speed off track has varied. And what annoys me most (as I've said numerous times) is the reversion to GT5ish low speed physics. I can still gold time trials without a problem but that's not the point. I don't want to wonder if the game has changed every time I start it up.
 
I've found that camber works. It definitely helps me with faster, more stable turns than camber 0.0. Some have suggested that front camber actually affects the rear tires still, but I don't think this is the case anymore.

You sure about that? Because the boys at the camber thread in the tuning forums don't think so.
 
Have to disagree with you there. If the update improves realism, I couldn't care less what people think of it.
"If it improves realism" is what a lot of people have an issue with. I'm guessing that over 90% of people that play GT6 don't actually race vehicles so the debate will constantly go on.
 
Yeah, it's a bit concerning that you can even use SRF in TT's as the leaderboard competition even encourages good pilots to use it just to rank higher on the leaderboard.
I don't like that one bit, I just check and my sub par time of 1:15.896 was bested by a slew of SRF on digital pad users, no lie the guy right above me was using the digital pad for steering. They really should separate SRF on and SRF off leaderboards, since SRF is magic grip tape and kind of skews driving since you can push the car beyond it's intend grip limits but the game magically can help you out. I hope the community update separates leaderboards when it comes to TT. I do it for fun, but being 37768 because nearly half of the participants use magic wheels is nonsense.
 
No
Has the camber bug been fixed yet?
No. 0.0/0.0 is still the best grip level overall, but you can alter the balance of a car by adding camber like adding some in the rear to loosen up a car that understeers or adding some in the front to hugely oversteering cars. I think some people are confusing balance and grip.
 
Did this 4wd fix changed physics again or am I seeing things? My tuned GTR GT3 was stable and nice to drive at 750hp before the fix, yesterday I drove event with hafl of it's power to meet the rating and guess what? Car was all over the place. It's RWD ofc.
 
Have to disagree with you there. If the update improves realism, I couldn't care less what people think of it.

How do we know any of these updates are moving towards realism rather than away from it? PD may have had the most realistic settings dialed into the cars at release, but given the complaints regarding MR cars, etc. is it not possible that they have moved away from that just so those complaining are kept happy? I agree with you that any move towards realism is the right one, but we don't know that's what they're doing. And, if they are going for realism above all else, then these constant changes make it feel like PD is changing their minds on what is realistic on a day to day basis!

Right now there are two things that are way the heck off. Opponent cars should not be lifting their backsides 6 feet into the air under heavy braking, it's just plain stupid. And almost as bad, is the the ABS off 'improvement' that means you can mash the braking button of your controller with ABS off, at any speed, and never ever lock up (I'm talking standard brakes not the tuning racing brakes upgrade).

Actually make that three things that are way off, because I almost forgot about the ridiculous top speeds that the really powerful cars are now capable of...............
 
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The ABS off in test drive and arcade time trial now is the same as before ( 1.03 ) WHEN in arcade race or career race :) There was a bug in 1.03 that causes brake balance stuck on certain values when in test drive, arcade time trial etc . Brake balance in 1.03 only works properly in arcade race + career race. So 1.04 actually have the properly working brake balance ( the way it's supposed to be ) in test drive under garage. Back in 1.03 when racing in arcade race or career race, the brakes were the same as now in 1.04 :)
 
Still waiting to PD "lock up dynamics/physics".

RUF CTR "Yellow Bird" as stock SH 0ABS is now pretty fun car, easy but still fun, not too easy but easy. It still shows RR acts and had to say at i really like this car.
How much physics are changed? Really don't care if they just lock them to somewhere, and fix pitstop bug.
R8 LMS can stay as is, no problem to me, but PITSTOP.... grin... R8 Ultra goes on 0ABS stock RS tires ('coz people are testing it with them) online "REAL" lobby Bathurst as 2.06 constant laps, faster if just pushing more than constant laps.

@Lawndart, that front suspension tilting problem is most biggest problem on BMW GT3 Z4, 5mm more and its running nice.

Huge bugs are still around there, like newest what I got was just testing one car on "Free run" at Bathurst, 2 laps and when crossing start/finish line game stops totally, I really mean totally, PS3 stops responding on PS button nothing happens, only solution was long press on "touch power button" of PS3.
Freaks me out at whats really happening, game have freezes of all type, there is micro/macro/normal/mega freezes..
 
I don't like that one bit, I just check and my sub par time of 1:15.896 was bested by a slew of SRF on digital pad users, no lie the guy right above me was using the digital pad for steering. They really should separate SRF on and SRF off leaderboards, since SRF is magic grip tape and kind of skews driving since you can push the car beyond it's intend grip limits but the game magically can help you out. I hope the community update separates leaderboards when it comes to TT. I do it for fun, but being 37768 because nearly half of the participants use magic wheels is nonsense.

Yeh this is frustrating. People can't hide it though, press X on their name in the leaderboard and it tells you what aids they used plus other info like wheel or ds3 etc

I only use SRF if I'm struggling to get gold and I always get it with SRF on on my first messy lap. The whole scenario is a bit stupid imo, I hate using it.
 
Did this 4wd fix changed physics again or am I seeing things? My tuned GTR GT3 was stable and nice to drive at 750hp before the fix, yesterday I drove event with hafl of it's power to meet the rating and guess what? Car was all over the place. It's RWD ofc.
I've already pointed this out in my Ferrari 240 and people think it isn't true because "they've tested their lap times". Similar lap times regardless of skill apparently proves that physics haven't changed for some people. Even though off course dynamics and AWD have clearly changed and camber is all screwed up.
 
For the most part, we don't know what's been changed, period. I rarely tune and have not felt a change in physics since release. All the complaints I see about physics changes are coming from individuals that tune their cars. Make of that what you will.

I have noticed the speed limiter imposed during-track excursion since 1.04. I haven't messed with ABS since the new update, but before it was awful.

We can put words in each others mouths, pretend we are professional testers, "confirm" physics changes, and brag about our mad virtual driving skilzzz 'til the cows come home. If you want the game to improve, it will and should continue to evolve. This nonsense that they should leave physics alone so you can tune your car for the perfect 'Ring lap is for the arcade crowd.
 
I never minded any of the changes but this latest is ridiculous and has become a real problem: I am now having to genuinely take more care in corners over fear that my car will get on 2 wheels and try to roll over. Before it only occurred rarely on very specific kerbs but now it can happen anywhere if I'm cornering too hard.

Driver to his race engineer: "Hey Jean, there's too much grip, causing the car to flip"
....said no one ever. Except in GT6 with the bizarro land physics.

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I never minded any of the changes but this latest is ridiculous and has become a real problem: I am now having to genuinely take more care in corners over fear that my car will get on 2 wheels and try to roll over.

What tires are you using?

Assuming a supposed change in physics did cause in increase rollover frequency on street cars with racing tires, I wouldn't immediately label that an unrealistic change.
 
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For the most part, we don't know what's been changed, period. I rarely tune and have not felt a change in physics since release. All the complaints I see about physics changes are coming from individuals that tune their cars. Make of that what you will.

I have noticed the speed limiter imposed during-track excursion since 1.04. I haven't messed with ABS since the new update, but before it was awful.

We can put words in each others mouths, pretend we are professional testers, "confirm" physics changes, and brag about our mad virtual driving skilzzz 'til the cows come home. If you want the game to improve, it will and should continue to evolve. This nonsense that they should leave physics alone so you can tune your car for the perfect 'Ring lap is for the arcade crowd.
Tuning cars isn't only for the "Ring lap" crowd. Some people don't like leaving the settings the same for a car that was meant to drive to work everyday. And what's with the comment "make of that what you will"? What are you implying? Maybe I should just assume that anyone that doesn't tune at least the suspension can't make a valid judgment about a car because they are always driving it at way less than its full potential. But I won't because that's silly. And if you're talking to me specifically about my stance on changing the physics, you're wrong. As someone stated before, the constant changing implies that they barely know what they are doing. A good driver can adjust for the physics change so it's not a big deal as far as "setting the best 'ring lap". The fact that it constantly changes and goofy bugs come out of nowhere is the problem. Like someone said, it'd be the same as a first person shooter changing gun dynamics and sighting every few days. The good players would adjust and still be the good players but it's just annoying.
 
What tires are you using?

Assuming a supposed change in physics did cause in increase rollover frequency on street cars with racing tires, I wouldn't immediately label that an unrealistic change.
It looks like a license/mission(see those yellow circles) so changing tires probably wasn't allowed.
 
It looks like a license/mission(see those yellow circles) so changing tires probably wasn't allowed.
it looks like it was a drift session

I still don't understan why everyone is targeting the physics when the suspension is the one that needs fixing (and we can do it ourselves)
 
I still don't understan why everyone is targeting the physics when the suspension is the one that needs fixing (and we can do it ourselves)

Well, suspension = 50% of the combined physics model (at least)... a user changed suspension tweak will have to travel through PD's physics engine.
 
@jr93alty

I'm implying that if a change occurred and if the vast majority of cars that represented this change were tuned, it is completely false to say this proves a fundamental change was made to the physics. For example, I've seen multiple accounts of farcical camber settings . If they improve this particular detail of the game, i.e. make negative camber values yield higher lateral grip than 0 camber, have they change the physics? Not necessarily. I consider that an improvement to the tuning interface.

And, if they did make a change to the physics to improve their realism, that does not imply they "barely know what they are doing." Multiple simulators make changes to the physics to improve realism. Trust me, NONE of them are perfect.
 
What tires are you using?

Assuming a supposed change in physics did cause in increase rollover frequency on street cars with racing tires, I wouldn't immediately label that an unrealistic change.
I wonder if anyone in real life has thrown tires with more grip than F1 softs on a street car? If so, what happened? You're right, it might be completely realistic:lol:
 
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