1080i PROOF (PICS INCLUDED)

[kinigitt]

progressive scan is also upconverted 480i, meaning, not "ture" 480p. this has been discussed before by KY himself NUMEROUS times. (the fact that they DON'T support 480p). it's upconverted video, wich means you can bypass your TV's scaler (would be great for HDTV's with crappy scalers)

however, there is one very positive thing in all of this, this could very well mean that 1080i and 480p are taken advantage off in photomode, it's possible that the PS2 could display full resolution in a static image, but untill i get GT4 myself i won't be able to confirm this, sorry.

oh. that sucks. because other PS2 games (R&C 2, 3, Socom 2, etc.) support progressive scan, so I got all giddy.

 

[tha_con]

your theory sucks, read the facts please.

whatever, think what you want, show me where PS2 is capable of any of what you say.

It can produce 480p maximum. Let's take simple PC basics.

You make software capable of running many different effects. Yet you have hardware that is not capable of such. Upgrades will come out, and you can use new things. Think Doom 3.

GT4 features software features that are not yet available on current PS2 hardware, but considering that PD is first party, I'm more than sure they have an inside ear on what Sony is doing with PS3, hence they probably included TRUE 1080i for PS3. This function will not work on PS2, because it's NOT POSSIBLE.

How is this theory flawed?

 

[SaintKamus]

What's with the grouchy attitude?

READ THE FORUMS BEFORE YOU ASK.

there's your reason. ^_^

 

[tha_con]

oh. that sucks. because other PS2 games (R&C 2, 3, Socom 2, etc.) support progressive scan, so I got all giddy.

The main reason it doesn't support progressive scan is because of how the game is coded. They did as much as they could with an interlaced signal to make the game look as good as possible, so with what's going on, to de-interlace the image would actually lower the image quality. That's my take at least. Not to mention it's already pushing the PS2 pretty hard I would assume.

 

[SaintKamus]

whatever, think what you want, show me where PS2 is capable of any of what you say.

It can produce 480p maximum. Let's take simple PC basics.

You make software capable of running many different effects. Yet you have hardware that is not capable of such. Upgrades will come out, and you can use new things. Think Doom 3.

GT4 features software features that are not yet available on current PS2 hardware, but considering that PD is first party, I'm more than sure they have an inside ear on what Sony is doing with PS3, hence they probably included TRUE 1080i for PS3. This function will not work on PS2, because it's NOT POSSIBLE.

How is this theory flawed?

it's flawed because PD NEVER said this feature would be in, and the fact that they SPECIFY what the 480p/1080i support actually does just crushes your theory, they never said it supported 1080i or 480p in anyway, here's what they said:
UPSCALED 1080i/480p is supported.

 

[kinigitt]

The main reason it doesn't support progressive scan is because of how the game is coded. They did as much as they could with an interlaced signal to make the game look as good as possible, so with what's going on, to de-interlace the image would actually lower the image quality. That's my take at least. Not to mention it's already pushing the PS2 pretty hard I would assume.

Yeah I heard all that before but I was still hopeful for progressive scan. Oh well.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Fact: The PS2 can do better than 480p resolution.

Like SK said, do a search. This was explained just yesterday.

 

[cobragt]

tha con, your theory does suck, seriously it does.

 

[1twojay]

READ THE FORUMS BEFORE YOU ASK.

there's your reason. ^_^

I havn't asked anything, read my first post

 

[kinigitt]

it's flawed because PD NEVER said this feature would be in, and the fact that they SPECIFY what the 480p/1080i support actually does just crushes your theory, they never said it supported 1080i or 480p in anyway, here's what they said:
UPSCALED 1080i/480p is supported.

you're not getting what he's saying. He's assuming that the software capabilities are hinged on future hardware capabilities. So, no, the current PS2 game running on a ps2 is not capable, but the seed is planted for future hardware.

I'm not savvy enough for this. So don't yell at me.

 

[GTXLR]

whatever, think what you want, show me where PS2 is capable of any of what you say.

It can produce 480p maximum. Let's take simple PC basics.

You make software capable of running many different effects. Yet you have hardware that is not capable of such. Upgrades will come out, and you can use new things. Think Doom 3.

GT4 features software features that are not yet available on current PS2 hardware, but considering that PD is first party, I'm more than sure they have an inside ear on what Sony is doing with PS3, hence they probably included TRUE 1080i for PS3. This function will not work on PS2, because it's NOT POSSIBLE.

How is this theory flawed?

So PD spend there valuable time squeezing in a feature to GT4 for PS2, for a console that is 2 years away, that will need to rely on NEW software to show of its features, not rely on 2 year old predecessor games.
Thats Flawed logic IMHO.

 

[SaintKamus]

you're not getting what he's saying. He's assuming that the software capabilities are hinged on future hardware capabilities. So, no, the current PS2 game running on a ps2 is not capable, but the seed is planted for future hardware.

I'm not savvy enough for this. So don't yell at me.

oh i get what he's saying, but the fact that PS3 developer kits shipped AFTER the game was finished completley puts that stupid theory to rest.

 

[cobragt]

I dont give a squirt of piss what verison of 1080i gt4 supports, lets be glad the game supports a higher res and from what I have read from people with the game, 1080i really did it in for the visuals, things aren't as jaggy as they use to be and things are clearer and chrisp. It's funny how the people with the game arent complaining or saying bs, instead you people without it are just doubting and doubting, maybe you're pissed you dont have the game and you want to find flaws so you can make yourself feel good or something. 2jay, answer this for me bro, does 1080i really make gt4's visual shine and are the jaggies and shimmering cut down to size?

 

[tha_con]

it's flawed because PD NEVER said this feature would be in, and the fact that they SPECIFY what the 480p/1080i support actually does just crushes your theory, they never said it supported 1080i or 480p in anyway, here's what they said:
UPSCALED 1080i/480p is supported.

Hand Clap for the grinch who stole christmas.

Anyway, since I'm normally a bigger person, I'll admit, I did not know that PD stated that it was upscaled, and since I don't read japanese, I couldn't have seen that in the screen shot I looked at.

So, swallow your ego for a second and accept my humble apology, I didn't mean to get your big wet panties in a bunch over a simple mistake. Sorry about that.

 

[Solid Lifters]

So PD spend there valuable time squeezing in a feature to GT4 for PS2, for a console that is 2 years away, that will need to rely on NEW software to show of its features, not rely on 2 year old predecessor games.
Thats Flawed logic IMHO.

Don't worry, it is. He has a big problem understanding things, trust me!

 

[kinigitt]

oh i get what he's saying, but the fact that PS3 developer kits shipped AFTER the game was finished completley puts that stupid theory to rest.

okay okay. I beleive you.

Angery.

 

[kinigitt]

Don't worry, it is. He has a big problem understanding things, trust me!

hehe. Know what you mean there. Tha_con can be a real ass cramp sometimes.

 

[Solid Lifters]

hehe. Know what you mean there. Tha_con can be a real ass cramp sometimes.

Sometimes? Hmm, more like all the time. 👍

 

[tha_con]

oh i get what he's saying, but the fact that PS3 developer kits shipped AFTER the game was finished completley puts that stupid theory to rest.

What's funny is Dev kits still haven't been shipped. But it does not take a genius to see that tech spec's would allow a developer to pre-plan for production.

Anyway, yes I was wrong, because IIRC, DVD doesn't even support true HD signal, or quality data. I believe only Blu-Ray (not sure about HDDVD) supports this. true 1080i signal requires something like 25MB/s and I believe reg. DVD's only support something like 6.7mb/s? so yes I was wrong.

But don't begin to comment on how PD couldn't know what PS3 will and won't do, they are first party with a huge title, there is no way on gods green earth they don't know what's going on with PS3. Don't kid yourself. Even without a Dev kit, I'm positive they know exactly what to expect with PS3, and are planning accordingly.

 

[kinigitt]

I forgot all about the fact that dvd discs can't support true HD.

 

[MadduckUK]

whats being said is that atm enabling 1080i will not increase visual quality. infact its basically disabled but still selectable. but pop gt4 into your ps3 and wahay, instant graphics upgrade. this is similar to what was supposed to happen with a few ps1 games when put in a ps2, but just increasing resolution (as is the case here) is a lot easier to implement that an increase in texture quality or poly count which was talked about at the time.

its a great idea, iv said myself that i dont think the ps2 is capable of resoluton increase, but if gt5 is going to come out maybe a year after the ps3's introduction a free boost in graphics quality will be most welcome.

 

[kinigitt]

whats being said is that atm enabling 1080i will not increase visual quality. infact its basically disabled but still selectable. but pop gt4 into your ps3 and wahay, instant graphics upgrade. this is similar to what was supposed to happen with a few ps1 games when put in a ps2, but just increasing resolution (as is the case here) is a lot easier to implement that an increase in texture quality or poly count which was talked about at the time.

its a great idea, iv said myself that i dont think the ps2 is capable of resoluton increase, but if gt5 is going to come out maybe a year after the ps3's introduction a free boost in graphics quality will be most welcome.

read that_con's admission of wrongitude. And my admission of duncitude.

 

[tha_con]

I forgot all about the fact that dvd discs can't support true HD.

I also forgot, then it hit me, lol. But my statement (not theory) still stands that true 1080i isn't possible on PS2 (just joking to save face, lmao).

Anywho, wouldn't upscaling kinda make it look a little..awekward? Maybe it was just the DVD player I owned, but when it upscaled to 1080i it looked like poo to me, I didn't like it...someone clarify if GT4 does it better...well actually I will be able to clarify in a few days....stupid import people haven't sent mine yet, they won't till tomorrow...and I probably won't see it till friday at the earliest, more than likely monday....but at least I'm not paying for it

 

[MadduckUK]

I forgot all about the fact that dvd discs can't support true HD.

depends what your useing them for. the CAN support high definition, thats not a problem. the problem is that a high definition movie simply wouldnt fit on one. (think vcds and svcd's, when you bump up the quality you also bumped up the amount of cd's you needed)

video games are a different kettle of fish, which is why theres the distinction between "digital video discs" and "digital versitile discs".

well dunno if any of that made sence. these gaps between xmas and new year eh? killer on the kidneys

 

[kinigitt]

depends what your useing them for. the CAN support high definition, thats not a problem. the problem is that a high definition movie simply wouldnt fit on one. (think vcds and svcd's, when you bump up the quality you also bumped up the amount of cd's you needed)

video games are a different kettle of fish, which is why theres the distinction between "digital video discs" and "digital versitile discs".

well dunno if any of that made sence. these gaps between xmas and new year eh? killer on the kidneys

killer on the liver. and brain.

 

[SaintKamus]

What's funny is Dev kits still haven't been shipped. But it does not take a genius to see that tech spec's would allow a developer to pre-plan for production.

Anyway, yes I was wrong, because IIRC, DVD doesn't even support true HD signal, or quality data. I believe only Blu-Ray (not sure about HDDVD) supports this. true 1080i signal requires something like 25MB/s and I believe reg. DVD's only support something like 6.7mb/s? so yes I was wrong.

But don't begin to comment on how PD couldn't know what PS3 will and won't do, they are first party with a huge title, there is no way on gods green earth they don't know what's going on with PS3. Don't kid yourself. Even without a Dev kit, I'm positive they know exactly what to expect with PS3, and are planning accordingly.

jesus, do some research before you reply please. the storage device has absolutley no relation with HD or not HD, blu ray would only help to have LONGER (read, more storage) videos or more data, but that's about it, HD resolution has absolutley no dependency on the storage device, you could have a 3 second clip on a freaking floppy disc for god's sake.

The fact is the PS2 can't do HD for numerous reasons, the first being 4 MB of framebuffer, this might be enough for photomode, but the memory real time 3d requires rarely allows the PS2 to render quality 3d at more than 480i, the few games that support 480p obviously compromising in other areas, such as texture sizes for example. get this straight:
the PS2 does NOT have enough memory to display high resolution 3d with decent results. 4 MB just isn't enough, and if that wasn't enough, even if it had say... 128 MB of framebuffer, it STILL wouldn't be able to render a quality image because the PS2 graphics chip would become fillrate limited at even 480p in GT4. meaning, the game would run at about 1-3 FPS at best at high resolution if it had enough framebuffer memory.

and about the PS3 developers kits not being shipped yet... wrong again, there are reports that a few "key" developers have gotten kits allready, PD is allmost defenetly one of those because of sony. Konami and rockstar are also good candidates...

 

[cobragt]

twojay, could you tell us how good gt4 looks running in 1080i hi-vision?

 

[Jedi2016]

Well, the upscaling would be pretty easy to see on an HDTV. If that's all it is, the game would look no different at 1080 than it would at 480.. enlarged, maybe a tad pixelated, and a little fuzzy. Just like any DVD. It's easy enough to see if it's running at a higher resolution.. anyone who's seen HD broadcasts will tell you that.. it's like night and day. If 1080 wasn't really 1080, he would have said as much.

But I'm also thinking that some sort of sacrifice had to be made to get those higher resolutions. I'd be curious to see what those are. Of course, in the end, it makes little difference.. like many folks, I'm stuck using 480i, but I think because it's the "lowest" resolution of the bunch, that it will have the most features, and look better than the others.

 

[tha_con]

depends what your useing them for. the CAN support high definition, thats not a problem. the problem is that a high definition movie simply wouldnt fit on one. (think vcds and svcd's, when you bump up the quality you also bumped up the amount of cd's you needed)

video games are a different kettle of fish, which is why theres the distinction between "digital video discs" and "digital versitile discs".

well dunno if any of that made sence. these gaps between xmas and new year eh? killer on the kidneys

They can support a FORM of high def. but not true high def. HighDef image quality requires 25mb/s IIRC. DVD lasers and discs are only capable of transfering 6.7mb/s, which is not enough to send all the data, there are tricks yada yada to make it look better, but it's still not true HD.

 

[cobragt]

All you all need is gt4 so you can shut up about this 1080 stuff. So what if it's upscaling or hi-vision or whatever, it will make an already amazing looking game better, end of discussion