2.06 physics/tire grip levels... what you think about it?

  • Thread starter Thread starter diegorborges
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I haven't tried most cars yet (not by a far stretch) since the update but something definitely changed although it's hard to pinpoint what exactly or whether it's for the better or not, and mostly I struggle how to describe it properly.
Did a few laps on some custom made tracks with a fully tuned Caterham yesterday on Sports Soft tyres and before the update it demanded my constant attention yet now it's very easy to chuck around corners and catch it when it oversteers.
Might be due to a new tyre model where each compound seems to be more grippier and I just need to downgrade it to get the same behaviour if I wanted.
But I also think the physics have been changed again, if only I could find the right words to describe the difference, it's subtle but even subtle changes can have a great impact.
Some further testing is required to give a relevant verdict though.
 
Although I'm 100% about the changes to the tire grip, what I do notice is level of resistance of steering weight at different speed. Prior to the 2.06 update, some of the physics was already there but the FFB wasn't as well implemented.
 
mykem
Although I'm 100% about the changes to the tire grip, what I do notice is level of resistance of steering weight at different speed. Prior to the 2.06 update, some of the physics was already there but the FFB wasn't as well implemented.
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Exactly dude the feedback is giving us more information. 👍 You cannot say this is not cool though. I love how they continue to make GT5 better. It's very promising to know PD updates the game to make it better. GT6 will probably get the same treatment which is also promising.
 
lateral grip, grip under braking and dialling in and out of turns has all been made to feel more realistic.

Dialling out of a slide is where i particularly notice it, but I dunno if it's a FFB or tyre tweak that's causing it. Don't care, it's excellent.
 
I have only really noticed the FFB on the wheel as the main gameplay changes.
I haven't played a whole lot since the update though so I couldn't really say..
 
I have noticed as well. my mini countryman, which sticks to the road like it's on rails and never loses speed in the turns, changed significantly. Now i have to actually try and keep it stable :indiff:
 
Hi guys.

The same feeling here. It´s hard to explain, and it well may be ´cause of the FF changes (DFGT), but the cars feel "different". I´m sorry, but I don´t have lap times to compare yet, but racing with my stock EVO VI TME on deep forest feels much better. It feels almos as if the suspension has more travel. Or maybe the "correct" trailing...

I don´t know. In the TG Test Track the AMG C63 was a wild uncontrollable animal, but the TVR Speed 6 feels more "talkative".

Please excuse me for my patetic english and my total lack of coherence... but it´s not my native language by maybe 3.000 miles....
 
I have one variable to remove and I'll know if things are different or not. I'm switching out my Nixim mod and going back to GTEye.
 
QB1o
lateral grip, grip under braking and dialling in and out of turns has all been made to feel more realistic.

Dialling out of a slide is where i particularly notice it, but I dunno if it's a FFB or tyre tweak that's causing it. Don't care, it's excellent.
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I've been playing with a DS3 recently and noticed the same things. Will try with a wheel soon.
 
I honestly don't notice anything different..
abs off still feels strange for some car even with 5:0 brake bias, as soon as I release the brake button the car unrealistically twitch violently and start drifting like crazy, I have never seen any car react like this in any racing series I watch on TV.. usually when a driver locks his car then he releases, nothing like in GT5 would happen..
 
Dodzzz
I honestly don't notice anything different..
abs off still feels strange for some car even with 5:0 brake bias, as soon as I release the brake button the car unrealistically twitch violently and start drifting like crazy, I have never seen any car react like this in any racing series I watch on TV.. usually when a driver locks his car then he releases, nothing like in GT5 would happen..
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You are shifting the weight to fast and not smooth enough to the front. You might want to be smoother coming off the brakes. Also your brake bias seems kinda weird. Usually I run race cars with 5 in the front 2 in the rear. Super cars get 4/2, high end sport cars 3/0 to 3/1, low end sport cars 2/0 and old cars or crappy brakes 1/0.
 
@JDMKING13
But that happen only on some cars.. I can handle many supercars with abs off.
Try Toyota 86 GT with ABS Off, brake balance 5/2 and to exaggerate the symptoms, use Racing Softs.. you'll know what I mean when you brake hard from long straights into a chicane or a sharp corner..

Here I attach a short video demonstrating what what I felt unrealistic about abs off..


I brake hard then deliberately move the steering wheel just a little to the left and look carefully what happened right after I release the brake? the car suddenly twitch like there was some huge force pushing the back of the car to the right. and I had to counter steer heavily.. what did I do wrong?
 
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I don't know but everything in game just feels crisper and smoother, i don't know how to describe it , what i can tell you for a fact is cars pitch and roll now as they hardly did before
 
Dodzzz
@JDMKING13
Try Toyota 86 GT with ABS Off, brake balance 5/2 and to exaggerate the symptoms, use Racing Softs.. .. what did I do wrong?
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You used Racing Soft tyres ;)

Now on a serious note - I didn't drive FT86 after the update yet, but from the initial glance I can say you have too high values for such small and light car at the first place. For FT86 you don't need BB higher than 4/1 or even 3/1.

Also, RS tyres have extreme grip, so your BB is also not doing any favour to that fact - because you're *braking* the tyres with to much braking force.

What *probably* happened here is too much pressure on the front-axle (and value of 2 on the rear axle is also to much, that is the one that *spins* you) which transferred on the front-axle with inertia when you were breaking. You released the brakes - inertia was still there - and than changed the direction. You get your twitch there, logically.

Since this update sublimely changed tyre-grip and suspension-travel, you need to take that into concern when setting up BB and such. And very soft front suspension on FT86 also do not help ;)
 
amar212
You used Racing Soft tyres ;)

Now on a serious note - I didn't drive FT86 after the update yet, but from the initial glance I can say you have too high values for such small and light car at the first place. For FT86 you don't need BB higher than 4/1 or even 3/1.

Also, RS tyres have extreme grip, so your BB is also not doing any favour to that fact - because you're *braking* the tyres with to much braking force.

What *probably* happened here is too much pressure on the front-axle (and value of 2 on the rear axle is also to much, that is the one that *spins* you) which transferred on the front-axle with inertia when you were breaking. You released the brakes - inertia was still there - and than changed the direction. You get your twitch there, logically.

Since this update sublimely changed tyre-grip and suspension-travel, you need to take that into concern when setting up BB and such. And very soft front suspension on FT86 also do not help ;)
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As I said bad braking technique and the BB is to high. In my league FT86 comes with 2/0 braking bias. Amar is spot on. 👍
 
But with the same braking technique, I could drive a 458 italia much easier and less (almost to zero) twitching than the FT86.. the ferrari got some 500 hp and the ft86 got only 200 hp. BB is set to the same 5/2 value..
I'll attach the video of me doing the same corner with the 458 italia.. please wait :P
 
Ok, here it is the video of my 458 italia on the same corner with abs off and 5/2 brake balance.

It feels much easier and hopefully more realistic than my previous video.



how come a 500HP car can brake much stable and easier than a 200HP one?
but when I turn ABS to 1, all of those problems disappear.. all cars will feel the same when braking :confused:
 
Dodzzz
Ok, here it is the video of my 458 italia on the same corner with abs off and 5/2 brake balance.

It feels much easier and hopefully more realistic than my previous video.



how come a 500HP car can brake much stable and easier than a 200HP one?
but when I turn ABS to 1, all of those problems disappear.. all cars will feel the same when braking :confused:
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If I had to guess I'd say it's because PD tried to replicate the brakes of each cars' real life counterparts. So if a car has better brakes in real life, which can be less prone to lock up, they do the same on game. Just like race cars can brake better, even with higher settings on the brake balance.

And with ABS at 1 those problems disappear most likely because ABS in game is not realistic, like it was already discussed on other threads. In GT5, ABS is no more than a powerful braking stability assist.
 
amar212
You used Racing Soft tyres ;)

Now on a serious note - I didn't drive FT86 after the update yet, but from the initial glance I can say you have too high values for such small and light car at the first place. For FT86 you don't need BB higher than 4/1 or even 3/1.

Also, RS tyres have extreme grip, so your BB is also not doing any favour to that fact - because you're *braking* the tyres with to much braking force.

What *probably* happened here is too much pressure on the front-axle (and value of 2 on the rear axle is also to much, that is the one that *spins* you) which transferred on the front-axle with inertia when you were breaking. You released the brakes - inertia was still there - and than changed the direction. You get your twitch there, logically.

Since this update sublimely changed tyre-grip and suspension-travel, you need to take that into concern when setting up BB and such. And very soft front suspension on FT86 also do not help ;)
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I think no ABS and BB really depends on the driver, I did the same test with FT86, stock everything, RS tires, at Monza, no assist, no ABS, BB set 7/5, yes it's not a mistake, I can drive with 7/5 no issues there. Unfortunately I have no capture card, so all i can do is attach my replays, check the 2nd lap for late braking and rapid steering after brakes. Most of the cars I drive in GT5 have BB 5/3, the better the tires, the higher I could go, the less brake force needed to slow down quickly. Most road cars between 400-500pp, I could set max BB 7/5 with comfort medium, no ABS, but I usually use 5/3.


I could do both stock Ferrari 458 Italia at 554pp and Toyota FT86 403pp with comfort medium as well - my preferred tires for less than 500 pp cars, the same exact BB 7/5, no ABS, no assist at Monza. Casual run with 458 at Monz raining, yield 2:07.xxx, the car gives more feedback after the 2.06 update, brakes works so much better without ABS, it felt alive.



Dodzzz
But with the same braking technique, I could drive a 458 italia much easier and less (almost to zero) twitching than the FT86.. the ferrari got some 500 hp and the ft86 got only 200 hp. BB is set to the same 5/2 value..
I'll attach the video of me doing the same corner with the 458 italia.. please wait :P
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In my opinion, the twitching on FT86 is due to the way you apply the brake and steering, practice my man :sly:

There are 3 attachments, they are US version GT5 replays, all the run are done offline in Free Run, each have 2 laps. Feel free to view them:dopey:
 

Attachments

Ok, I did some more testing.

The stock TVR Tuscan now is a different beast. From being a neutral car, it has now a lot more understeer, specially at higher speeds. It's as if it's engine actually weights something now.

F40 got a lot more stable, but it's braking... I still didn't find a proper setting for BB to properly use it.

Now, the Lamborghini Murcielago. I had tuned mine to correct its oversteer and introduced a bit of understeer to keep it stable in the Nurburgring. After the update, it became an understeer machine. I had to transfer some weight back to the rear, and I'm still messing with the suspension. Some oversteer now, but very manageable.

It seems as if the front end of cars now dive a lot more during braking, especially when hard braking.

Also, I noticed tires taking more time to get to optimal temperature.

Will test some more.
 
EDIT: This in response to Dodzzz's videos.
A mid-engined car has a more rearward weight-distribution than a front-engined car, and the bulky bits being all at the back there mean the 458 has more grip on the rear when braking - this may be compounded by stiffer suspension on the 458, limiting weight transfer forwards when braking. You shouldn't use the same brake balance for both cars, for optimal braking, at any rate.

Also, you were still at 50+ % brake pressure when you turned in with the 86, but you were almost completely off the brakes in the 458.

Maybe, then, being on the brakes and turning with the forward brake bias meant that you understeered slightly until you suddenly and completely released the brake pressure mid-turn, which restored full cornering ability to the front tyres. That, combined with the "weight transfer" you'd achieved, meant the front axle had more lateral grip than the rear, which caused the sudden oversteer. Racing softs on a stock, mild sports car is also not a great idea, because the suspension was never meant to deal with such extreme braking performance, so you will get extreme levels of "weight transfer", in fact the initial understeer may have been caused by bottoming out the suspension at the front, if such things are modeled in GT5.

Just be smooth and gradual with your braking (and throttle) and steering input. If you're over-rotating into a corner, you're going too fast for your setup on that particular car.
 
Griffith500
EDIT: This in response to Dodzzz's videos.
A mid-engined car has a more rearward weight-distribution than a front-engined car, and the bulky bits being all at the back there mean the 458 has more grip on the rear when braking - this may be compounded by stiffer suspension on the 458, limiting weight transfer forwards when braking. You shouldn't use the same brake balance for both cars, for optimal braking, at any rate.

Also, you were still at 50+ % brake pressure when you turned in with the 86, but you were almost completely off the brakes in the 458.

Maybe, then, being on the brakes and turning with the forward brake bias meant that you understeered slightly until you suddenly and completely released the brake pressure mid-turn, which restored full cornering ability to the front tyres. That, combined with the "weight transfer" you'd achieved, meant the front axle had more lateral grip than the rear, which caused the sudden oversteer. Racing softs on a stock, mild sports car is also not a great idea, because the suspension was never meant to deal with such extreme braking performance, so you will get extreme levels of "weight transfer", in fact the initial understeer may have been caused by bottoming out the suspension at the front, if such things are modeled in GT5.

Just be smooth and gradual with your braking (and throttle) and steering input. If you're over-rotating into a corner, you're going too fast for your setup on that particular car.
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Agree to this for the most part, but for the racing tires, in my opinion smooth steering and threshold braking would be suffice. I agree that it might be over the top for low pp cars in terms of grip, but to fully make use of the tire, treat the brakes like a throttle on a high power car, smooth and gradual.

By the way, if you look at my 458 replay that I posted previously, high speed braking 1st chicane at Monza roughly needs 50%-40% brake force to get close to locking up - then I gradually eased off to 20% or less, this was on comfort medium, no ABS - BB 7/5, fuel/tire wear, and light rain. So BB is varied to individual, it's just how you apply the brake that counts.
I got to say I like the new tire model, more feedback when close to the limit, cornering, braking, accelerating. Longer to heat up, and last longer as well, at least on comfort that I often use.
 
Whoah thanks guys for the responses!

After reading all your inputs.. I tried changing the 86 GT suspension settings, because the original suspension spring rate setting was weird.. 6.0 at front and 2.0 at the back, I thought.. maybe this is the culprit of all that twitchyness after releasing the brake.. then I bought the Fully Customisable Kit, change it drastically 12.5 at front and 15.0 at the back :)
Then I adjust the Brake bias to 2/0..
Tried it again.. this time this car brake so stable and so smoooth on every corner!!! Almost no screeching at all!! the exact opposite of my previous videos. I guess I've learned something today :lol: (I'm completely noob at settings btw)
 
Dodzzz
Whoah thanks guys for the responses!

After reading all your inputs.. I tried changing the 86 GT suspension settings, because the original suspension spring rate setting was weird.. 6.0 at front and 2.0 at the back, I thought.. maybe this is the culprit of all that twitchyness after releasing the brake.. then I bought the Fully Customisable Kit, change it drastically 12.5 at front and 15.0 at the back :)
Then I adjust the Brake bias to 2/0..
Tried it again.. this time this car brake so stable and so smoooth on every corner!!! Almost no screeching at all!! the exact opposite of my previous videos. I guess I've learned something today :lol: (I'm completely noob at settings btw)
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That's great then, but no offense Dodzzz, the stock suspension was fine, if you care to spare some time to download and view the replays that I posted, you will see that even with no ABS, high BB and stock everything, I could not find any fault with the car. It might just be the driving style that is different. I do hope you could get something out of those 3 replays:cheers:
 
@Ridox2JZGTE
Oh the replays! I'm currently downloading it right now, hopefully can be played on my GT5, I don't know which version is my GT5, it's in English but when I log in to the lobby the default region is Hong Kong/Taiwan. My PS3 is the blue one bundled with the game.

I'm curious how you manage to do a clean lap on that 86 GT stock suspension settings with abs off.. I can't seem to tame it yet without changing the spring rate..
 
@ Dodzzz, if I am not mistaken, the replay could only be played with the game from the same region codes, eg, BCUSxxxx replay with BCUSxxx game, BCESxxxx replay with BCESxxx game. If only there's a US version owner who can download them and upload the video to Youtube:idea:.

I have no capture card:grumpy:, best I could do is my old mobile phone camera, but it also sucks:yuck: Anyone care to record the replay, just one of them would be great:p

I'll send some incentive for anyone who could download the replays and upload them, some chrome paints gold/silver ?
 
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Ah why this region thing exists.. we play the same game! :grumpy:
Tried importing the replays but does not show up in the game :ouch:
 
Dodzzz
@JDMKING13
But that happen only on some cars.. I can handle many supercars with abs off.
Try Toyota 86 GT with ABS Off, brake balance 5/2 and to exaggerate the symptoms, use Racing Softs.. you'll know what I mean when you brake hard from long straights into a chicane or a sharp corner..

Here I attach a short video demonstrating what what I felt unrealistic about abs off..


I brake hard then deliberately move the steering wheel just a little to the left and look carefully what happened right after I release the brake? the car suddenly twitch like there was some huge force pushing the back of the car to the right. and I had to counter steer heavily.. what did I do wrong?
Click to expand...


I'm just learning how to drive with ABS off and the 86' is one of the cars I was driving yesterday at 500 PP on RS and SS tires and I don't recall any of that happening. I believe I settle on 4/1 for a BB and it may be related to excessive rear brakes on your part, or your particular tune.
 

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