2008 Belgian Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by PeterJB, Sep 2, 2008.

  1. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    I have to say, I agree with the FIA's decision to penalise Hamilton. Raikkonen was barely past him when he launched his counter-pass. He clearly had a faster car through that section, so what was the hurry? He could simply have followed Raikkonen through La Source and then pounced on the run down to Eau Rouge. His impatience got the better of him, and he paid the price. There have been bad decisions before, like Sato's supposed ignoring of blue flags at Indy that time (I think it was blue), but I don't think this is one of them.

    I also think it has a lot to do with where it happened. Spa has the distinction of having the shortest Start/Finish straight on the calendar, so there's not a hell of a lot of room between the Bus Stop and La Source. If it had been anywhere else on the circuit, where there was some distance, it's likely Hamilton would not have been penalised.

    Of course, all of this is fuelled by F1's race wars. You're either from Camp Ferrari or Camp McLaren; even if you support another team entirely, a part of you still has a preference for either of those teams. The pro-McLaren people say it was unfair because it was a McLaren involved, while the pro-Ferrari people claim it to be justified.
     
  2. SUPER NUMBBER

    SUPER NUMBBER

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    The FIA decided to issue a CLARIFICATION to the rules regarding the incident:

    http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080913125933.shtml

    That's right...the FIA felt compelled to CLARIFY a rule that supposedly is already written (but can't say where), for which Hamilton was penalized.

    Translation: "Lest you think we don't know what the hell we're doing, we're just gonna claim the rule has always been there, punish Hamilton for it, then after a week of deliberating how to cover our asses, CLARIFY it..."
     
  3. Car-less

    Car-less

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    Since when did an unwritten rule carry more weight than a written one?
    In the attached image you can see Kimi's front wheel above Lewis' helmet as he forced Lewis off the track. Had Lewis not cut the chicane, then he would have caused a collision.

    The way I saw the incident (now from three different camera angles), Kimi braked early approaching the chicane, forcing Lewis wide to avoid a collision.

    Entering the chicane, Lewis (ahead by half a wheel before turning in) allowed Kimi room at the first apex.

    Exiting the chicane, Kimi left Lewis no room - quite possibly touching Lewis' front wheel with his rear. In another attempt to avoid a collision Lewis cut the chicane. Had Lewis attepted to remain on the track at the moment shown, he could either turn into Kimi causing a collision or continue straight, braking across the grass and spearing into Kimi as his left wheel slid across the wet grass. Lewis had no choice but to cut the chicane, or cause a collision as Kimi forced him off the track towards the grass.

    After the chicane, Lewis allowed Kimi to pass before repassing into the hairpin.

    So by the written rules, Kimi should have been penalised.
    Instead, Lewis was penalised per an unwritten rule.

    If anyone can show me where in the rules it was previously written that;
    then both (or neither) drivers should have recieved a penalty. Otherwise Kimi alone should have. However, due to the combination of worn dry tyres and a wet track, I'd have let it slide(sic).

    What would you have done in the next 100th second if it were you in the yellow helmet below?
     

    Attached Files:

  4. the Interceptor

    the Interceptor Premium

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    It may come to you as a surprise, but if you browse this thread and other discussions on the internet, you will find that there is a respectable number of Ferrari and Kimi fans backing Hamilton in this matter. That alone speaks for itself.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2008
  5. Soundtrack

    Soundtrack

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    Have any of you tried to modify a rule within the middle of a game?
    My advice: don’t! Unless you wanna look lousy and/or ridiculous.
     
  6. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    How come nobody's mentioned that Hamilton may have been so much closer to Raikkonen on the straight because Raikkonen had loads of wheel spin coming out of the corner. I only noticed it on the video yesterday on ITV.
     
  7. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Have you ever played any drinking game involving cards? Not only is it common, it's actually the point of the game.
     
  8. Soundtrack

    Soundtrack

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    :lol::lol::lol::tup:
     
  9. orimarc

    orimarc

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    So...after 22 pages of post...has ANYTHING been cleared?
     
  10. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    Yes. People can't agree with each other.
     
  11. P3nT4gR4m

    P3nT4gR4m

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    F1 Stewards are assholes?
     
  12. TMM

    TMM

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    How did he put himself in a comprimising position when he lead into turn 18 but was forced wide by Kimi coming accross the track?

    Considering that Kimi started this whole episode by braking so early that Lewis could only avoid a crash by going round him how can the only sporting option be to drop behind him into turn 19?

    How can a driver measure the distance that he needs to drop back from a competitor in order to satisfy an unwritten rule when they are supposed to be racing for a championship?

    He didn't try, he did overtake.

    He cut the chicane to avoid another potential accident, surely that should count in his favour with the FIA?
     
  13. benoni2

    benoni2

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    From what i saw, even when Kimi "forced" Lewis off the track (normal), he actually, WAS able to brake and turn normally without any accident whatsoever or cutting the track. And then, he chose to cut the track and gained speed and action by doing that. For me, that´s the reason of getting punished. I think FIA did it right.
     
  14. Metar

    Metar

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    That part closer to the kerb, remember, is a set of underfloor-bashing bumps designed to do that...
     
  15. SUPER NUMBBER

    SUPER NUMBBER

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    He was able to turn and brake BECAUSE he cut through the chicane after being pushed into it. Had he kept going forward, he wouldn't have the traction to brake and caused a collision.

    And even when he did that, he gave back the position he gained.
     
  16. darkfinal

    darkfinal

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    Look at what I found:



    Please notice how he had to hold back during the last sector, in order to respect the yellow flags, and 'risk' it all in the last corner, knowing the slightest mistake would cost him two full places.

    Amazing or not, that's a hell of a tense situation. :tup:
     
  17. Soundtrack

    Soundtrack

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    Nice on-board cam and lap. Looks like pertinent tyre selection plays a big role these days.:dopey:

    Am I crazy or does that engine sound’s like if Renault has find a way to outcome Traction Control regulation for this year? Specifically Alonso getting out off the Pits: T 0:11 to 0:14 on the vid.
     
  18. Roo

    Roo Premium

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    You're crazy. :p

    That was the rev limiter; all engines are limited to 19,000rpm. On the slippery surface with the wheels spinning, you can't keep up with the upshifts.

    Awesome video, I was hoping to see that :tup:
     
  19. Soundtrack

    Soundtrack

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    We would probably need more than YouTube's Pixel Soup and biased sound to discuss this but the led display on the steering doesn’t show like Alonso is hitting the rev limiter (more of that @ 1:29 same vid) in my opinion.

    Now, where the hell have I left that straitjacket?:dunce::)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2008
  20. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    I didn't see any reason for the yellow. Did any of you? I'm wondering if Glock has been done out of a point for eighth place for no good reason.
     
  21. daan

    daan Moderator

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    The yellows were there for Kimi's crash. His car was still parked at the side of the track.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2008
  22. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    Amazing video! Thanks for sharing :tup:
     
  23. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Premium

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    It might have something to do with the torque control which is used by McLaren and Renault.
     
  24. DQuaN

    DQuaN Premium

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    The hearing is today.
     
  25. P3nT4gR4m

    P3nT4gR4m

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    Dear god, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change the courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know if the appeal is not upheld - the FIA can shampoo mine crotch!
    [​IMG]
     
  26. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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  27. Touring Mars

    Touring Mars Moderator

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    Gosh, I can hardly contain my excitement! What a thrilling finish to the race this is!
     
  28. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    I know and I always thought that F1 races were capped at 2 hours, this ones now well past hour 360!!!!!

    :dunce:


    Scaff
     
  29. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    in modern F1, drivers drive the cars, pit crews do the overtaking and lawyers win races :dopey:
     
  30. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    Never have I heard truer words. :bowdown: