2008 Best Car Series: Chevrolet Corvette vs Mercedes SL65 Black Series

[gator of kana]

Voted for the Mercedes. Good looking car, very strong performance and it looks very aggressive.

You took the words right out of my mouth

 

[Jay]

This is a tight one!

 

[GT Pro]

Wow, its dead equal right now at 29 vs. 29.
If I were to base my vote on the popular 'best value-for-money' mentality it would be the Corvette hands down, but since I see this as purely the 'better car', regardless of price, the Mercedes will have to take the win.

 

[Bones Brigade]

its not a better car, its speculated to be a better car. c'mon people. speculation means nothing.

 

[gator of kana]

Wow, its dead equal right now at 29 vs. 29.
If I were to base my vote on the popular 'best value-for-money' mentality it would be the Corvette hands down, but since I see this as purely the 'better car', regardless of price, the Mercedes will have to take the win.

What's with people these days talking about a bargain price for a fast car, has all of us turned into cheapskates all of a sudden? Giving up on such great cars in the world because it's more expensive. Sure some cars may be cheap, but haven't y'all thought of what even makes them cheap?

 

[Joey D]

We talk about performance for money because many of us will never been rich enough to buy something both new and fast. I highly doubt any of us here on these boards can afford a SL65 Black Series. By finding the car that offers the best performance for your money we realise that we very well might be about to achieve a goal of having a nice and sporty car. It has nothing to do with us being cheap, just with us not having enough disposable income to buy these cars.

 

[YSSMAN]

Quite right, and to that extent, the Corvette simply is one of the best cars you can buy in the segment, for that kind of cash, period. You're still several grand short of a Cayman, the M3 comes in at a higher price, not to mention the fact that Ford still builds Mustangs that cost more and perform at a lower level.

Sure, the Corvette isn't as much of a value elsewhere, but even then, it still holds its own against the majority of the competition. Yes, the interior sucks, but when you get a car that does that well for the price, it isn't likely to be your largest concern.

 

[niky]

I'd have to go for the Corvette... the stubborn refusal of GM to bow in to using what everyone else is using (turbocharged DOHC) and instead developing their pushrod powerplant to near equity with the current crop of DOHC engines... sticking to one of the most unique suspension designs in the automotive world... using an ultra-sophisticated magnetorheological ride-control system that puts the ZR1 in the mix with cars that have traditionally had better handling... the SL65 might have a more sophisticated automatic... but it isn't that unique in this market, not anymore... while the Corvette will still be one-of-a-kind... price notwithstanding.

 

[gator of kana]

Quite right, and to that extent, the Corvette simply is one of the best cars you can buy in the segment, for that kind of cash, period. You're still several grand short of a Cayman, the M3 comes in at a higher price, not to mention the fact that Ford still builds Mustangs that cost more and perform at a lower level.

Sure, the Corvette isn't as much of a value elsewhere, but even then, it still holds its own against the majority of the competition. Yes, the interior sucks, but when you get a car that does that well for the price, it isn't likely to be your largest concern.

I get what you're saying 100%, but since the Corvette is that cheap, almost every country bum in America can buy one, and trust me, I would lose more interest in that Corvette if I saw someone driving one every 5 miles down the road. On the other hand, since the SL65 is so expensive, you would see less of them on the road. A great sports car has to be one you hardly ever see in person. People in America hardly ever buy European cars so that could be pretty much the reason why I voted for the SL65. Corvette is a great car, but too common, that mix doesn't throw me.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I get what you're saying 100%, but since the Corvette is that cheap, almost every country bum in America can buy one, and trust me, I would lose more interest in that Corvette if I saw someone driving one every 5 miles down the road. On the other hand, since the SL65 is so expensive, you would see less of them on the road. A great sports car has to be one you hardly ever see in person, that's my opinion

See, but that's where you're wrong. Country bums are smart enough to go with F-bodies and Mustangs. Only people who buy 'Vettes are doctors, dentists, etc, mostly people who make a shedload of money but not QUITE enough to go for a Fezza or Lambo. Or people who make a shedload of money who want something very quick and very good handling that isn't massively expensive.

 

[neanderthal]

For all thats been done to the vette, that has also been done to the SL65. Im not comparing the standard vette to the standard SL, so im assuming Z06/ ZR1 vs SL65 black

More power; check
Aero; check
Unpgraded interior; check
Lower weight; check (check check for the 250 kg (thats about 550lbs!!!!) that mercedes took out.)
Wider track; check
Wider tires; check
Bigger brakes; check

So, we have cars that have been massively redone by both manufacturers in the pursuit of speed.
But with the Chevy you are still getting just a Chevy. And i only say that because of that godawful interior which GM should have thrown $600 at. The SL still has that magnifico interior compared to the vette, and it should, at that price difference. The vette may be a great sports car, but its not anything special.

The fuel economy difference is small between the ZR1 and SL 65. The standard vette gets pretty good fuel economy but not so much the hi po versions.

Performance between them is about the same too. The vette is lighter and ostensibly should handle better. But AMG really put in work with the Black Series CLK, and if the transformation of the SL65 is anywhere near as thorough then it should be a beast in all ways.

my vote goes for the SL. Its pricey, but its special.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

About the fuel econ: Really? The Z06 can knock out 28mpg or so and I bet the ZR1 nabs at least 24-25.

 

[Blackbird.]

About the fuel econ: Really? The Z06 can knock out 28mpg or so and I bet the ZR1 nabs at least 24-25.

Gotta love tall 6th gears.

 

[zed300]

I really can only see one thing stopping me from choosing the big SL aaand that would be price, that aside, the build quality from the Euro, well speaks for itself. Performance an absolute sleeper!!! Drive it around the city -launch it down the freeway.I reckon it looks better too. Not that I don't like the VETTE, love 'em but not over the SL.

 

[gator of kana]

Gotta love tall 6th gears.

I've noticed that only American cars only has those tall gears, the Viper, GTO, Mustang, GT, and Corvette has that. I don't like those tall gears because as soon as you're in top gear, the car starts stuggling to gain more speed. their tall gear actually goes up to more than 250mph, I wonder if they know that they can't go that fast

 

[Blackbird.]

I've noticed that only American cars only has those tall gears, the Viper, Mustang, GT, and Corvette has that. I don't like those tall gears because as soon as you're in top gear, the car starts stuggling to gain more speed.

That's because those gears are essentially an Overdrive gear, intended for gas mileage. I don't think they're intended at all to be used in racing. 5th gear at best but sometimes like the ACR Viper's circumstances only 4th is the best top gear. (referring to 7'22 Nur lap)

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

The SL took the lead, this saddens me. Oh well, hopefully the Corvette will fight back.

 

[gator of kana]

The SL took the lead, this saddens me. Oh well, hopefully the Corvette will fight back.

don't get your hopes up just yet

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I've noticed that only American cars only has those tall gears, the Viper, GTO, Mustang, GT, and Corvette has that. I don't like those tall gears because as soon as you're in top gear, the car starts stuggling to gain more speed. their tall gear actually goes up to more than 250mph, I wonder if they know that they can't go that fast

The reason the American cars are geared like that is indeed fuel economy...

And the fact that we have the grunt to get away with tallish first-gear ratios and wider 1st-6th spacing without giving up much at all. You don't need a ton of different ratios when you have power basically from idle to 6500+rpm.

Lastly, every automaker who has the sense to run highway gearing knows damn straight that the cars probably won't ever use that top gear to its fullest extent running wide open, but they also know that it doesn't hurt performance too much to run the gears how they do and that it helps the EPA ratings for highway fuel economy and thereby to some extent helps the CAFE ratings.

Besides... You can't really argue with the Corvette managing 25-30mpg with 6+L V8s, can you? Hell, that's around what most four and six cylinder family sedans get, so... Yeah.

 

[neanderthal]

About the fuel econ: Really? The Z06 can knock out 28mpg or so and I bet the ZR1 nabs at least 24-25.

from fueleconomy.gov

Chevy ZR1
Premium Gasoline
14
City
16
Combined
20
Hwy

Chevy Z06
Premium Gasoline
15
City
18
Combined
24
Hwy

SL 65 AMG
Premium Gasoline
11
City
14
Combined
18
Hwy

those are official 2009 numbers.

 

[neanderthal]

See, one thing that bugs me about the american cars is just that. They design the car and then engineer its numbers; 1st that goes to 60, overdrive ratio of 0.50

Good thinking, but seriously is the need to look that good in a magazine stat important enough to gear first that high? That kinda "engineering" seems like taking a shortcut to doing heavy duty thinking, to me. Don't get me wrong, its ingenious.

But my properly engineered W124 Mercedes 300E gets mid twenties fuel economy with a non overdrive four speed automatic, and yet weights 4000lbs, thats about 1000 more than a vette. It has an anemic 150 horse engine (mines a 2.6) but will do 130 all day (if its flat and long enough.) I wonder what economy id get with the 722.5 or 722.6 five speed transmissions from mercedes. Its possible because of aerodynamics, the W124 gets as low as .28 (euro model 200/ 200D with standard 185/65-15 tires.) But thats for another argument.

 

[gator of kana]

It looks like we got 23 hours until this poll closes. It will be finally about time that the car I voted for wins, Go SL65!!!

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

See, one thing that bugs me about the american cars is just that. They design the car and then engineer its numbers; 1st that goes to 60, overdrive ratio of 0.50

The Corvette engine has enough torque so they can gear it like that. It's not like they gear it for MPG and then it can't perform on the track.

But my properly engineered W124 Mercedes 300E gets mid twenties fuel economy with a non overdrive four speed automatic, and yet weights 4000lbs, thats about 1000 more than a vette. It has an anemic 150 horse engine (mines a 2.6) but will do 130 all day (if its flat and long enough.) I wonder what economy id get with the 722.5 or 722.6 five speed transmissions from mercedes. Its possible because of aerodynamics, the W124 gets as low as .28 (euro model 200/ 200D with standard 185/65-15 tires.) But thats for another argument.

If you look at the fueleconomy.gov site you will see that with the automatic the regular Corvette gets 15 city, 25 highway and 18 combined. The 300E 2.6 gets 18 city, 23 highway and 20 combined. Yes the Corvette is newer and weighs less, but it has 280 more HP.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

If you look at the fueleconomy.gov site you will see that with the automatic the regular Corvette gets 15 city, 25 highway and 18 combined. The 300E 2.6 gets 18 city, 23 highway and 20 combined. Yes the Corvette is newer and weighs less, but it has 280 more HP.

As well as over twice the displacement.

 

[neanderthal]

My engine is flexible enough to only need three gears; in fact the car has a 2nd gear start that is overridden by putting the shift lever in 2 or mashing the accelerator upon takeoff. Engine flexibility is NOT in question here. Im pretty familiar with how flexible the sbc is.

And I'm not knocking the vettes numbers. They are good. Great in fact if you compare them to other contemporary sportscars and supercars. But i still get the sense that they are cheating by gearing first and overdrive so high. Good for them that they can do it, but if your first gear is going to go to 60, with an even spread of gears, 5th is good for 300 and 6th for 360. Theoretically of course. Drag increases with the square of speed. Or summat.

The Crux;
Im saying the car is not going to realistically go past 200mph unless youre at Nardo or something. You gear the car wrong and you end up with the Viper ACR which wasnt driven in 5th gear on the ring except by mistake. Imagine what that car would have done with gearing that was designed to complement the car, not make certain numbers.

Why not use a close ratio 5 speed with a (long) overdrive 6th? Porsche has essentially done that with their new 7 speed pdk transmission. You still get your acceleration and "proper gearing for sporting driving" but you also get a real usable overdrive.

Edit; The Hi Po versions of the vette have more realistic gearing. And those are the ones that are more likely to be caned. Whereas the standard vette is likely going to be going from the office to the golf course, so it is smart. Joe BLow is not going to be testing the limits of his new vette even if he is constantly talking about them. He is most likely going to be amazed by its fuel economy and quietness, both the result of the interstellar gearing. I get it.

But it just feels like cheating.

 

[///M-Spec]

Did I miss something? Who said I would buy either? Even if I was rich. I thought the whole point for this was cars as they are not cars that we are going to buy?

The discussion is about which car is "best". That can mean BEST, price no object or it can mean BEST, price being a factor. My point has always been that price is always a factor, and the SL Black's price tag simply takes it out of contention as far as I'm concerned. What's so hard to understand about that?

This depends on the individule.

I'm glad you've found the car of your dreams for $5,000. Seriously, that's great. But I think a majority of people and most car enthusiasts, if asked what their 'dream car' would be, wouldn't describe something you can buy for $5,000.

Lots of them might say "a Camaro", no doubt. But not a $5,000 one. Still, it's nice for you that the car of your dreams is so easily achieved.


M

 

[gator of kana]

The discussion is about which car is "best". That can mean BEST, price no object or it can mean BEST, price being a factor. My point has always been that price is always a factor, and the SL Black's price tag simply takes it out of contention as far as I'm concerned. What's so hard to understand about that?




I'm glad you've found the car of your dreams for $5,000. Seriously, that's great. But I think a majority of people and most car enthusiasts, if asked what their 'dream car' would be, wouldn't describe something you can buy for $5,000.

Lots of them might say "a Camaro", no doubt. But not a $5,000 one. Still, it's nice for you that the car of your dreams is so easily achieved.


M

That is the reason why I voted for the SL65 because you know once you get a way expensive car, you can then enjoy it and feel good inside that you were able to get something most people think is impossible to get, but if you really follow your dreams, you can buy any car no matter how expensive.

 

[Giancarlo]

The Corvette starts at $46,950. My God, $46,950! It's a crazy bargain. I have to vote for it.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

My engine is flexible enough to only need three gears; in fact the car has a 2nd gear start that is overridden by putting the shift lever in 2 or mashing the accelerator upon takeoff. Engine flexibility is NOT in question here. Im pretty familiar with how flexible the sbc is.

And I'm not knocking the vettes numbers. They are good. Great in fact if you compare them to other contemporary sportscars and supercars. But i still get the sense that they are cheating by gearing first and overdrive so high. Good for them that they can do it, but if your first gear is going to go to 60, with an even spread of gears, 5th is good for 300 and 6th for 360. Theoretically of course. Drag increases with the square of speed. Or summat.

The Crux;
Im saying the car is not going to realistically go past 200mph unless youre at Nardo or something. You gear the car wrong and you end up with the Viper ACR which wasnt driven in 5th gear on the ring except by mistake. Imagine what that car would have done with gearing that was designed to complement the car, not make certain numbers.

Why not use a close ratio 5 speed with a (long) overdrive 6th? Porsche has essentially done that with their new 7 speed pdk transmission. You still get your acceleration and "proper gearing for sporting driving" but you also get a real usable overdrive.

Edit; The Hi Po versions of the vette have more realistic gearing. And those are the ones that are more likely to be caned. Whereas the standard vette is likely going to be going from the office to the golf course, so it is smart. Joe BLow is not going to be testing the limits of his new vette even if he is constantly talking about them. He is most likely going to be amazed by its fuel economy and quietness, both the result of the interstellar gearing. I get it.

But it just feels like cheating.

It ain't cheating. Cheating would be taking the laws of physics, cracking them open, and getting 90mpg from a 'Vette.

 

[mustangGT90210]

It ain't cheating. Cheating would be taking the laws of physics, cracking them open, and getting 90mpg from a 'Vette.

I can do it. 1 cylinder that works, and have the thing crawl