2008 Best Car Series: (Round 3) FIAT 500 vs Aston Martin DB9

[homeforsummer]

why did a reskinned fiat panda beat the black series and why is this poll even close?

Because people with open minds are allowed to post here.

 

[Jim Prower]

Ow. My head.

While my practical side wants to go with the Fiat, I do like the Aston very much. I do think it's gonna come down to my blue-collar preferences, though, and the 500 is a brilliant small car.

500.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

This is a tough one. I do like small cars especially with gas prices the way they are, but I also like luxury cars.

 

[Joey D]

Oh man it's tied up right now, go fun and practical go!

 

[buickgnx88]

It will be interesting to see the showdown between the 500 and the GTR!

 

[Beerz]

Oh man it's tied up right now, go fun and practical go!

I just un-tied it. Voted for the Aston.

Tough choice, really. I quite like the 500.

I think the DB9's design ended up making it for me, as I always saw it as one of the best looking cars ever to see the light of day.

But both of them, because of the world of difference they have, present very valid arguments. 👍

 

[Moglet]

The real question here should be;

Why wasn't the Vantage up in the runnings instead? The DB9 is a great car but surely the fact that the Vantage is cheaper and almost as quick (and looks almost the same too) should have put it up there?

 

[JCE]

Yay the Aston is in the lead!

 

[YSSMAN]

Why wasn't the Vantage up in the runnings instead? The DB9 is a great car but surely the fact that the Vantage is cheaper and almost as quick (and looks almost the same too) should have put it up there?

The Vantage was eliminated in the British Car Thread, edged out by the Exige 240 S as I recall.

Go FIAT go! Get some more voters in here!

C'mon, you know that a GT-R vs 500 fight would be EPIC!

 

[gator of kana]

The Vantage was eliminated in the British Car Thread, edged out by the Exige 240 S as I recall.

Go FIAT go! Get some more voters in here!

C'mon, you know that a GT-R vs 500 fight would be EPIC!

Yeah Go Fiat

 

[Perfect Balance]

I tied it. 26/26

 

[Boz Mon]

I got the tiebreaker so far. I went with the 500 because I would totally buy one if it came to the states. I have always had a thing for the older ones.

 

[Muzaffar]

Now the 500 is leading by 3 votes.....

 

[bobzed]

go go Cinquecento !

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I never mentioned the DB9 in anyone of my posts or it's lack of fun, nor did I claim the 500 was more fun to drive then it. I'm merely saying that the 500 is a fun car to drive and that I assume it is more fun to drive then the MINI not the DB9.



If you can show me where I said the 500 is more fun to drive then a DB9 in this post I will fly to Australia and give you a cookie.

Well being a thread about the 500 vs DB9 I should assume you were comparing those 2 when you said "I imagine the 500 is more fun to drive."

Rrrrrrright. Have I done any moderating in this thread? Have I ever moderated you? Am I perhaps not permitted to post unless I am moderating?


Come on, nd. No-one's attacking you. We're asking for the reasons behind your opinions that a car you've never driven is more fun than another car you've never driven. No-one's contradicted you even - folk are just wondering why you hold this opinion.

In fact that's all that ever happens. Your opinion and reasoning behind it are challenged. For some reason you have, in the past, seen this as a direct attack on yourself and reacted abusively, earning sanctions for doing so. If you'd just see that a debate isn't a personal slight against your character you'd have never had any issues here. Ever.

Re: moderating getting me in trouble- Instead of stopping an argument you join in opposing me, mods should be stopping all negative confrontation. Not feeling like the mods will help me when they were on the offender's side got me in trouble.

Re: my opinion- I always state my reason in pretty much my first post in the thread, just like everyone else, so either you guys don't bother reading my posts before questioning me, or you're attacking me for my opinion.

Edit: Well clearly I didn't state my reasoning in this thread at first, but it should be obvious to you guys by now I like big powerful RWD tyre shredders for what they do and have more fun doing it.

Leonidae, rest assured that if you did this in a DB9 in any gear below fourth and you would require at least a change of trousers, if not a six-foot box. Make no mistake, traction control will not save you from a 470hp V12 if you're an idiot.

Exactly why I figured his post must have been sarcastic or incorrectly typed.

I dunno. Most fun I've had driving a car recently was in a 150hp Ford Ka. DB9s are a bit brutal to drive hard, very scary. If you like to thrash a car, the 500 would be a far better proposition.

Last I checked scary gets the adrenalin pumping, and that makes you have a lot of fun.

Lets put it this way - to achieve the same pace as the 500 driving at 9/10ths on a country road, the Aston driver may only be driving at 4/10ths. At 9/10ths in the 500, you'd have to be accurate with the steering, maybe correcting it occasionally, you'd be feeling every bump and undulation, braking pretty hard for corners and feel it squirming, the rev counter hitting the red in each gear and the engine buzzing away the whole time. And you'd still not be breaking any speed limits.

In the Aston at 4/10ths, you'd barely hear the wonderful engine as you'd not be revving it beyond about 3.5k revs, just flicking a paddle when you wanted to change gear. The car would have over half of its grip and braking reserves left, you'd be guiding the car along the road with no real effort, the suspension cosseting you from the road surface. Unfortunately, you'd have to keep looking down at the speedo as even 3.5k revs might take you into ticket territory.

Money aside:
So drive the Aston at 9/10ths then, you will be going far faster, you will get a far greater rush, you might even do some powersliding for added fun.

Money Considered:
In the context of a thread where we are comparing these 2 cars, we should not vote for the 500 simply because we can afford it, it could be the worse car in the world and would still win for that reasoning. So, I propose to you that track days are cheap enough, take your DB9 to a track and you will have more fun than the 500 could provide.

 

[Famine]

Re: moderating getting me in trouble- Instead of stopping an argument you join in opposing me, mods should be stopping all negative confrontation. Not feeling like the mods will help me when they were on the offender's side got me in trouble.

If we stopped all "negative confrontation", there would be no discussion. You would express your opinion, but no-one else would be permitted to express a different one for fear of you perceiving it as "negative confrontation". Where's the fairness? Why can someone not disagree with you, if they do it in a manner which doesn't insult you? Why must you label them "the offender" just for having a different opinion?

For that matter, who, in this thread, has said "You are wrong. The FIAT 500 IS more fun than the DB9."? That is the opposing view to yours. Four people - myself included - have said they can't see any reason why the 500 would be more or less fun than the DB9. This view does not oppose yours - it permits the possibility that you are right.

And since none of us 5 have driven either car, it's the safest logical position to take.

Re: my opinion- I always state my reason in pretty much my first post in the thread, just like everyone else, so either you guys don't bother reading my posts before questioning me, or you're attacking me for my opinion.

No-one's attacking your opinion (but even if they were, it doesn't matter so long as they are attacking the opinion and not the person who holds it. They are two different things. Pay a visit to the Opinions forum some time). We're asking your reasons behind it. Why must the DB9 be more fun than the FIAT 500, in your opinion?

A straight answer would be good. One that isn't "It's obvious". An answer that covers your reasons.

Edit: Getting better:

Edit: Well clearly I didn't state my reasoning in this thread at first, but it should be obvious to you guys by now I like big powerful RWD tyre shredders for what they do and have more fun doing it.

Okay, so now we have the notion that you would have more fun in a big, powerful, RWD tyre-shredder. That's fine - that's your preference. Why is anyone who suggests that they might have more fun in the 500 "mental" or "horribly wrong"? If this is based on preferences, why can't their preference be just as valid as yours?

Last I checked scary gets the adrenalin pumping, and that makes you have a lot of fun.

Last I checked, Venari has actual experience of the DB9 and he says he imagines the FIAT 500 (which he hasn't driven yet) might be more fun.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Why is anyone who suggests that they might have more fun in the 500 "mental" or "horribly wrong"? If this is based on preferences, why can't their preference be just as valid as yours?

Their preference is valid, and I certainly agree the 500 is probably lots of fun, I just don't understand how it could be more fun than a DB9. It's city car vs high end sports car.

Edit: Maybe you guys need to tell me what the 500 can do that a DB9 can't do and then some.

 

[Famine]

Their preference is valid, and I certainly agree the 500 is probably lots of fun, I just don't understand how it could be more fun than a DB9. It's city car vs high end sports car.

Now, you see... that's a good post 👍

As for the edit and understanding how, read Venari's post again. He has direct experience of DB9s (yes, plural).

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Now, you see... that's a good post 👍

As for the edit and understanding how, read Venari's post again. He has direct experience of DB9s (yes, plural).

Venari said that for a car to thrash the 500 would be more fun, which naturally I disagree with because it has very little straight line go, and won't do powerslides and stufff like that, as I said once before, just point and go.

Then the only other stuff he talked about was not concerning the actual driving dynamics and aspects of car's nature when driving it hard.

 

[homeforsummer]

Money aside:
So drive the Aston at 9/10ths then, you will be going far faster, you will get a far greater rush, you might even do some powersliding for added fun.

Money Considered:
In the context of a thread where we are comparing these 2 cars, we should not vote for the 500 simply because we can afford it, it could be the worse car in the world and would still win for that reasoning. So, I propose to you that track days are cheap enough, take your DB9 to a track and you will have more fun than the 500 could provide.

A ridiculous comeback, as there is virtually nowhere in the world you could drive a DB9 on the roads at 9/10ths and not be causing a danger to either yourself or other road users. The public roads are not the place to drive a 1700kg, 450bhp car at 9/10ths. This is why I used the comparison I did, that driving the 500 quickly you'll still likely find yourself well within the limits of the law and even if you do make a hash-up it'll likely be at a low speed. This probably makes it more fun, more of the time.

Re: trackdays, yes, if you have an Aston you could afford to do every trackday in the year at your local circuit and probably others around the country, but even this isn't really it's element - you'd probably get a little frustrated at all the Elises, Evos, Imprezas et al that ran rings around your big, heavy GT that's not really designed as a track day machine.

And again, unless you were a very skillful driver, you'd probably not get close to the limits of the car (and many trackdays in the UK at least frown on sideways behaviour, so you couldn't even redeem yourself with a few powerslides even if you had the talent). In the 500, you could drive around til the brakes caught fire but you'd certainly have fun.

And even then, would you be comfortable pushing your £100k+ GT around a track? Much as price shouldn't be the deciding factor of these votes, it has to be considered from a practical standpoint and what you're likely to get for the money. Incidentally, for DB9 money or thereabouts you could get a Ferrari 430 or similar, which would certainly be more fun on a track than the 500 and more of an "event" day-to-day on the roads, even at 4/10ths.

 

[Famine]

Venari said that for a car to thrash the 500 would be more fun, which naturally I disagree with because it has very little straight line go, and won't do powerslides and stufff like that, as I said once before, just point and go.

You can't thrash a DB9 on public roads. You'd be breaking the legal speed limit in 2nd gear. You'd be breaking traction in anything up to (and including) 4th gear. And, of course, slides of any flavour are illegal on the UK highways, powered or not.

Driving a DB9 you'd be on 20% throttle or less for the majority of the time and you can't just throw it at a corner in the same manner as "insert generic small hatchback here" because the polar moment is so low comparatively. You need finesse for the GT car.

It's the difference between a kickabout in the park with your mates (500) and suddenly finding yourself in a professional football match (DB9). In your head, it's really a brilliant idea, but you get there and find you're out of your depth and *kick* you seem to be really quite badly hurt.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

A ridiculous comeback, as there is virtually nowhere in the world you could drive a DB9 on the roads at 9/10ths and not be causing a danger to either yourself or other road users. The public roads are not the place to drive a 1700kg, 450bhp car at 9/10ths. This is why I used the comparison I did, that driving the 500 quickly you'll still likely find yourself well within the limits of the law and even if you do make a hash-up it'll likely be at a low speed. This probably makes it more fun, more of the time.

Re: trackdays, yes, if you have an Aston you could afford to do every trackday in the year at your local circuit and probably others around the country, but even this isn't really it's element - you'd probably get a little frustrated at all the Elises, Evos, Imprezas et al that ran rings around your big, heavy GT that's not really designed as a track day machine.

And again, unless you were a very skillful driver, you'd probably not get close to the limits of the car (and many trackdays in the UK at least frown on sideways behaviour, so you couldn't even redeem yourself with a few powerslides even if you had the talent). In the 500, you could drive around til the brakes caught fire but you'd certainly have fun.

And even then, would you be comfortable pushing your £100k+ GT around a track? Much as price shouldn't be the deciding factor of these votes, it has to be considered from a practical standpoint and what you're likely to get for the money. Incidentally, for DB9 money or thereabouts you could get a Ferrari 430 or similar, which would certainly be more fun on a track than the 500 and more of an "event" day-to-day on the roads, even at 4/10ths.

You can't thrash a DB9 on public roads. You'd be breaking the legal speed limit in 2nd gear. You'd be breaking traction in anything up to (and including) 4th gear. And, of course, slides of any flavour are illegal on the UK highways, powered or not.

Driving a DB9 you'd be on 20% throttle or less for the majority of the time and you can't just throw it at a corner in the same manner as "insert generic small hatchback here" because the polar moment is so low comparatively. You need finesse for the GT car.

It's the difference between a kickabout in the park with your mates (500) and suddenly finding yourself in a professional football match (DB9). In your head, it's really a brilliant idea, but you get there and find you're out of your depth and *kick* you seem to be really quite badly hurt.

So a car's fun factor for you guys is based on what you're allowed to do? Luckily then in Australia we have events where powerslides and burnouts at over 100km/hr are promoted and part of the show (on the track). If you were worried about using the DB9, you wouldn't have bought it, doesn't this thread pose the question of what you would do with a DB9? Clearly you guys wouldn't do anything, sucks to be non-Australian

 

[TheCracker]

The point is that we are talking about using a road car in it's natural environment - i.e. the road. You can't judge a road car by it's abilities on a track type event, when you'll likely to be spending at most half a dozen days a year at a track. Even then, like has already been pointed out, a heavy DB9 would make a rubbish track car. It would fry it's brakes after 5 or 6 laps tops. A £26k Elise would be quicker in most track situations. I would also guess that 99.5% of all DB9's never visit a circuit anyway and probably rarely even see the red line on the rev counter, it's more of a grand tourer then a sports car.

 

[homeforsummer]

So a car's fun factor for you guys is based on what you're allowed to do?

Well obviously. I'm sure looting would be pretty fun but you aren't allowed to do it...

Luckily then in Australia we have events where powerslides and burnouts at over 100km/hr are promoted and part of the show (on the track).

I'm sure you could take a DB9 to drift events if you wanted, or you could take it to McDonalds carpark on a friday night and show off to all the kids in Novas with their 12-year old pregnant girlfriends if you wanted to do burnouts, but not everyone gets their kicks from that. You're still viewing this discussion in black and white if RWD and lots of power are your only reasonings for the DB9 being more fun. A top fuel dragster has those two things, but I expect it'd be pretty lame on the road and a nightmare to park.

Famine and I are trying to look at this a little realistically. Realistically, there are only certain times you can have fun with a car and realistically, the 500 would likely be more fun more of the time. You can only go by what you know.

If you were worried about using the DB9, you wouldn't have bought it, doesn't this thread pose the question of what you would do with a DB9?

No, this thread asks which is the better car, and then invites discussion where people can put across their informed opinions (if we're lucky). And I'm sure most DB9 owners aren't worried about using their cars, but then most DB9 owners probably don't use them for trackdays or to powerslide on public roads, so this reduces their risk a little. Given that the only person I've ever heard flooring a DB9 was Jeremy Clarkson, and that was on TV, I'd guess that most DB9s are used for their intended purpose, which is a good looking, comfortable GT, which happens to have a lot of power.

Clearly you guys wouldn't do anything

That's quite an assumption given we're literally only covering one topic, which is driving quickly on public roads.

But if "anything" means sliding a DB9 around a country road, regularly doing over a ton and using it to do burnouts, then I guess no, I wouldn't do anything.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I would still rather drive a DB9 on the road than a 500.

 

[slidesquad#1]

I don't think anyone says you wouldn't. Or shouldn't for that matter.
The 500 can be fun. In certain situations it can be more fun than the DB9.
In everyday driving, there are a lot more opportunities to have fun in the 500 than in the DB9. I believe this is what the others are trying to say.

Different strokes for different folks. The 500 doesn't appeal to me. At all. Not a tiny bit. BUT. I can see why others might like it, and I don't feel it's necessary to convince them otherwise.

Clearly you guys wouldn't do anything, sucks to be non-Australian

You must see how backwards this line is.

PS: have a look at the people driving around in Astons. You'd struggle to find anyone who uses a DB9 for what you perceive to be its use, i.e. sideways and burning rubber.

 

[Famine]

So a car's fun factor for you guys is based on what you're allowed to do?

To an extent, yes. "120mph" of the Aston's 190mph top speed is effectively unusable on British roads. Sure, you can get there quicker, but that's just 5 seconds of amusement.

But you skipped over this bit:

Driving a DB9 you'd be on 20% throttle or less for the majority of the time and you can't just throw it at a corner in the same manner as "insert generic small hatchback here" because the polar moment is so low comparatively. You need finesse for the GT car.

You can be as careless and as hamfisted as you like with your inputs in a "generic small hatchback". You can literally pick them up, throw them at a corner and come out of the other side, grinning. Now let's try that with a V12 GT car. Pick it up, throw it at a corner and... why can I see green? Who's this nice chap in the big white van and the fluorescent jump suit? Can I have some more morphine now please?

I refer you to my kickabout analogy. Great idea in your head, really quite disastrous in reality.

Luckily then in Australia we have events where powerslides and burnouts at over 100km/hr are promoted and part of the show (on the track).

And, as we established in an earlier thread, we have tracks in the UK too. Been there, done that. The relevance, however, to road cars is slim - and besides which we are quantifying amusement value, not speed and lap times. The 500 would be a good laugh on the track as well as on the drive home. If an Aston can only truly be enjoyed at a track, it can't be that fun...

If you were worried about using the DB9, you wouldn't have bought it, doesn't this thread pose the question of what you would do with a DB9?

Does one only buy an Aston Martin to go at 190mph and accelerate from 0-60mph in 4 seconds?

Clearly you guys wouldn't do anything, sucks to be non-Australian

I believe you call those who indulge in such japery on public roads "Hoons".

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Let me ask you this Famine, if I'm on a public road in the middle of the country in Australia with not a single person, car, or building for hundreds of kms and I sit around and have a little bit of fun in my car, is that still considered hoonery?
Personally, I don't think so, unless of course I was racing someone or even had someone else in my car at the time.
At 20% throttle the DB9 will still be faster than the Fiat at 100% probably, every time you need to accelerate away from stop lights, give way signs, etc and you give the throttle a little prod (and I mean little) and you are reminded of the beast lurking beneath the bonnet a smile will writhe its way across your face.

I think you guys under-estimate how fun rapid acceleration can be, and I still maintain that I can have fun in any corner, in any car, even a GNX which was purpose built for going fast in a straight line, yet I can't have fun in a straight line in any old car without modifications, you need decent power for that.

 

[slidesquad#1]

Can you accept that other people might not necessarily feel the same way?

 

[Joey D]

Well being a thread about the 500 vs DB9 I should assume you were comparing those 2 when you said "I imagine the 500 is more fun to drive.".

You should learn to read more carefully. I was showing you how I reasoned the 500 is a fun car to drive based on a similar vehicle that I have a lot of experience with. Although as it was pointed out, reviews favour the MINI's handling to the 500's. I still say though that the 500 would be just as fun as the MINI despite not having as good of handling.

===

Oh I just noticed that over the night the 500 pulled ahead....yes, yes, yes!!!!