2008 Best Car Series: (Round 3) Nissan GT-R vs Audi R8

[nd 4 holden spd]

Everyone is forgetting these are just reports coming in from tuners, if it was a wide spread problem you would see the internet raising holy hell about it. I don't even know if anyone has taken there GT-R though enough miles to start experiencing problems.

Look I don't like the GT-R but the transmission thing is a bit absurd unless we can find something other then a blog to go by.

Well if \/ that is true then we wouldn't hear about it, unless you know someone with a GTR and you asked them.

Is it true that nissan make GTR owners sign a disclaimer about transmission noise, thats the transmission is sorta seen as a consumable, and that the car need servicing every 6000 miles?

 

[gator of kana]

Everyone is forgetting these are just reports coming in from tuners, if it was a wide spread problem you would see the internet raising holy hell about it. I don't even know if anyone has taken there GT-R though enough miles to start experiencing problems.

Look I don't like the GT-R but the transmission thing is a bit absurd unless we can find something other then a blog to go by.

I don't know how you do it but you always have a good point 👍

 

[Barracuda]

I voted for the R8 because I hate the GT-R with a passion

 

[bergauk]

I don't know how you do it but you always have a good point 👍

He makes sense? You don't?

 

[Joey D]

Well if \/ that is true then we wouldn't hear about it, unless you know someone with a GTR and you asked them.

I need to hear about it from a proper source, not some internet automotive forum, or better yet an internet Gran Turismo forum.

There is this thread on a GT-R owner's board (although I can't recommend going their due to language in some of the threads...just a heads up).

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=24400

If you go to the last post in the thread you see this post that talks about transmission failures.

Now now - dont go spreading mis-information. Take it in context. His tranny has failed, yes, and it will take six months yes - the delay is due to the non availability of trannies with BW and Nissan's order book.

It failed coz of a known issue with some of the earlier (<1000, mine's one of them) JDM spec cars, and the transmission oil cooler pump. The pump gives way and only the odd or even gears can be selected - but the car is in fail-safe mode and cannot move. Or so I think.

This has been fixed in the later revision of the JDM cars and most certainly the US cars. In fact since launch, there have been 2 software revisions - the second one just before the USDM cars were launched - so all of your cars have the updated tranny software.

The tranny - unless it is one of the flawed ones - is NOT weak and can take quite a bit of abuse. I know people here who have 15-20K Kms on the odo and 5+ track days under their belt. Plus several launches. The tranny is actually quieter now - with the cogs bedding down (perhaps?) - but still going strong.

The noises are normal. After a while you wont even notice them. Change your exhaust and you wont even know the existed!

All new cars to the market are going to have kinks if you get an early model and I have not seen anywhere on the web, in magazines, or elsewhere about transmission failures being a huge problem in the car. Even searching "GT-R Transmission Failures" in Google on comes up with a handful of speculation on various internet forums, which I only take with a grain of salt.

No I have not talked with a GT-R owner personally, however I assume most people have not talked with GT-R either to find out if they are having trouble with their vehicles. Like I said there will be kinks as it's a new model year, but does that make it a bad car? Not at all.

===

I don't know how you do it but you always have a good point 👍

Thanks, but all it requires is a bit of internet searching and logic. If there was a problem with GT-R and transmission a Google search would reveal massive amounts of results with that very problem. It doesn't.

 

[gator of kana]

He makes sense? You don't?

Why do I have to be logical all the time?

 

[bergauk]

Because it helps make people believe you?

 

[YSSMAN]

Okay, c'mon now, be nice. Whether or not you agree or disagree with him, at the very least, he is honest with us about his opinion and seems to want to learn. We were all new here at some point, and eventually, things will start to change.

 

[bergauk]

Well well well, look what won. The R8. I'm glad it did.

 

[exigeracer]

Everyone is forgetting these are just reports coming in from tuners, if it was a wide spread problem you would see the internet raising holy hell about it. I don't even know if anyone has taken there GT-R though enough miles to start experiencing problems.

Look I don't like the GT-R but the transmission thing is a bit absurd unless we can find something other then a blog to go by.

Joey, what I posted is not from speculation blogs, but the actual log in Nissan GT-R's owner's manual, as posted by a Nissan GT-R owner, and verifyable by any owner you ask. There is actually space for all of those transmisssion replacement entries.

As far as your claim per forum owner's experience, I can provide equal evidence from a Nissan tech in Tennessee who was assigned and sent out to be trained on the GT-R, and not only does he say that Nissan has little faith in the gearbox shown to him through his training, but neither does his personal professional education and experience if he were to judge the transmission on the GT-R. Two way road.

 

[Jim Prower]

I voted for the R8 because I hate the GT-R with a passion

Reeeeeal strong argrument, that.

Exige, it's a handbuilt car, and something entirely new. one must expect teething problems. Besides, it's one owner...or alleged owner...is the only case of this I've heard of.

But, whatever, Euro guys have won, as I predicted. Too many people hate the GT-R for challenging the status quo. The Audi doesn't challenge anything: it's just another European Supercar to get lost in the muddle.

 

[gator of kana]

it's just another European Supercar to get lost in the muddle.

Yeah just one of those cars that everybody wish they had because of it's looks

 

[Joey D]

It is still speculation on what the log is used for though, yes it's in the manual, but there could be a number of reasons why. And one tech saying it doesn't make it true either, but by all means post a link to were this tech said this. Like I said, unless some concrete information is coming in, which it isn't, I'm not going to believe it.

I'm one of the GT-R's biggest critics on these boards too. I dislike the car in everyway from it's looks to it's soullessness. But really speculating on based on internet rumours isn't going to do anything. That page from the owners manual has been posted on different message boards and that's how the message is getting around. It could be there for people who continuously race their vehicle, which would give increase wear on the transmission, and have them fail prematurely.

 

[Muzaffar]

Oh no, the GT-R has lost it.
Well onto the finals then, should be interesting to say the least.....

 

[Jim Prower]

I'm half-apt to think that rumor may have lost it for the GT-R. The R8 guys got really aggressive towards the end...I think it's strategy.

 

[Joey D]

I'm half-apt to think that rumor may have lost it for the GT-R. The R8 guys got really aggressive towards the end...I think it's strategy.

I think the initial buzz of the GT-R has worn off. I mean the GT-R thread itself has slipped away into the forums depths. It has separated into those who genuinely like the car and hate the car from those who were just doing it as the flavour of the month.

Like I said, I don't believe that the GT-R has transmission problems outside the first batch. The log in the manual is nothing more then speculation since there is no concrete data on why it's there outside a bunch of people on various, and mostly non-GT-R, forums. However, if the transmission does break, that wouldn't end up surprising me since the car does have a ton of power and torque being processed through it. Affordable and power typically don't bode well together.

 

[forza2.0]

The Audi doesn't challenge anything: it's just another European Supercar to get lost in the muddle.

The R8 only toppled the porsche iron fist regime with the 911.

Its not a supercar anyway, I would say its a sports car. It just so happens to look like a supercar.

However, if the transmission does break, that wouldn't end up surprising me since the car does have a ton of power and torque being processed through it. Affordable and power typically don't bode well together.

Doesnt that then make it bad engineering? Giving a vehicle more power than the other compnents can handle? Not my idea of fun. Anyway, early days still. Lets give it a year when there are loads of GTR's around the world.

 

[Tornado]

The R8 only toppled the porsche iron fist regime with the 911.

If you will remember correctly, so did the Honda NSX. Look at the long legacy that car has, and that car wasn't restricted on purpose like the R8 is. The GT-R has the same problem as it stands now, but Nissan is at least coming out with a more powerful model for sure.

 

[Joey D]

Doesnt that then make it bad engineering? Giving a vehicle more power than the other compnents can handle? Not my idea of fun. Anyway, early days still. Lets give it a year when there are loads of GTR's around the world.

Not really, it's engineered to the specs it's supposed to be for a given cost. There is only so much an engineer can do and still have the GT-R cost what is does.

 

[forza2.0]

Not really, it's engineered to the specs it's supposed to be for a given cost. There is only so much an engineer can do and still have the GT-R cost what is does.

So basically yes then, the engineer has a cost he needs to stick to, and should engineer in reliablitly within those costs.

Thats like me spending 10 grand on engine upgrades but then neglecting other important components.

 

[Joey D]

So basically yes then, the engineer has a cost he needs to stick to, and should engineer in reliablitly within those costs.

Thats like me spending 10 grand on engine upgrades but then neglecting other important components.

Since we don't know those parameters we can't assume. Although while Nissan markets the GT-R as a track monster I doubt if you use it as such the dealership will honour warranties on it for failed components like the transmission due to excess wear. The transmission is probably very reliable in a daily driven application, however anything is going to fail if you flog it around a track.

 

[Jim Prower]

The R8 only toppled the porsche iron fist regime with the 911.

I don't think it has. Yeah, it competes, beats a Carrera S around a track, but Topple? With models like the Turbo, GT3, and GT2? You've gotta be kidding me. Oh, wait, no, you're not, because you believe with all your heart that Audi cannot do any wrong.

Porsche'll strike back at both Nissan AND Audi rather quickly, here, I'm willing to bet. They won't let the competition get so close (and surpass in SOME areas) and get away from it. ESPECIALLY a brand they have a stake in, however small it may be.

As for the Supercar thing...okay, maybe it's a sports car, but I still think it'll be forgotten in seven years when the next one comes out, believe me. The R8 is a fad, too trendy of a car. It lives in the here and now, absolutely nothing timeless about it. and it looks ugly. Yeah, I said it, it looks ugly. I don't get the side strake thing, it doesn't even move to aid in cooling. It's just there for no reason. 'Course, that's an opinion no-one else shares.

As for the tranny, it's not an issue that will plague the GT-R for very long. It's like the dealer markups: it'll go away after about the first three months. mind you, this is a brand new car, it's gonna have teething troubles: the R8 is several years old chassis-and-drivetrain-wise, because all the development costs (and teething troubles) were offloaded on Lamborghini customers. You seriously don't think that the Gallardo didn't have problems in it's first few months of production? Here's four technical Service Bulletins that say otherwise.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I don't think it has. Yeah, it competes, beats a Carrera S around a track, but Topple? With models like the Turbo, GT3, and GT2? You've gotta be kidding me.

In the same performance class it topples the 911 absolutely, suggesting it is a better car. When Audi add a more powerful version then we'll talk GT2/3. A car doesn't need to beat the top dog of the opposing model line-up to be considered better, only the one it competes directly with.

 

[Jim Prower]

It's also a bit more expensive in base form than the Carrera, and fully loaded, quite a bit more expensive.

 

[forza2.0]

Since we don't know those parameters we can't assume. Although while Nissan markets the GT-R as a track monster I doubt if you use it as such the dealership will honour warranties on it for failed components like the transmission due to excess wear. The transmission is probably very reliable in a daily driven application, however anything is going to fail if you flog it around a track.

Well time will tell, but I read that if you use launch control on the GTR part of your warranty is invalidated!

I don't think it has. Yeah, it competes, beats a Carrera S around a track, but Topple? With models like the Turbo, GT3, and GT2? You've gotta be kidding me. Oh, wait, no, you're not, because you believe with all your heart that Audi cannot do any wrong.

Wow. Just wow!

Firstly grow up. The R8 can only be compared to equivelant 911 models. How did you in your head work out that a comparing the R8 to much more powerful porsches, and some track ready porsches is fair? Like for like the R8 has beaten the 911.

Porsche'll strike back at both Nissan AND Audi rather quickly, here, I'm willing to bet. They won't let the competition get so close (and surpass in SOME areas) and get away from it. ESPECIALLY a brand they have a stake in, however small it may be.

Yadda yadda yadda, porsche has already begun development on the 998, before they have even bought out the entire facelift range. Porsche dont like the existence of the R8 that is clear, so we might not see a successor.

As for the Supercar thing...okay, maybe it's a sports car, but I still think it'll be forgotten in seven years when the next one comes out, believe me.

Who said that there will be another one?

The R8 is a fad, too trendy of a car. It lives in the here and now, absolutely nothing timeless about it. and it looks ugly. Yeah, I said it, it looks ugly.

Who cares if you think its ugly? I think your car is ugly. Do you care about that?

the R8 is several years old chassis-and-drivetrain-wise, because all the development costs (and teething troubles) were offloaded on Lamborghini customers.

Someones forgotten about the existence of the le mans concept. Also get it right. The facelifted gallardo got its new updated chassis bits right off the R8

As for the tranny, it's not an issue that will plague the GT-R for very long. It's like the dealer markups: it'll go away after about the first three months.

How do you know? Do you work for nissan?

You seriously don't think that the Gallardo didn't have problems in it's first few months of production? Here's four technical Service Bulletins that say otherwise.

No I dont. Congratulations on spending your time proving something that no one ever mentioned or questioned.

It's also a bit more expensive in base form than the Carrera, and fully loaded, quite a bit more expensive.

Its also more exclusive, and more powerful. Fair trade.

 

[Tornado]

This skullduggery makes me wonder: Has anyone compared to refreshened 911 to the R8 yet?

 

[forza2.0]

This skullduggery makes me wonder: Has anyone compared to refreshened 911 to the R8 yet?

Yes they have. Cant remember the outcome.

 

[Moglet]

Firstly grow up. The R8 can only be compared to equivelant 911 models. How did you in your head work out that a comparing the R8 to much more powerful porsches, and some track ready porsches is fair? Like for like the R8 has beaten the 911.

He probably worked it out in his head when you said that Audi has 'toppled the porsche iron fist regime with the 911'....

 

[forza2.0]

He probably worked it out in his head when you said that Audi has 'toppled the porsche iron fist regime with the 911'....

porsches iron fist is the "slower" 911's. Faster 911's arent head and shoulders above the competition when competing against equally good ferraris' or other track day specials.

 

[Jim Prower]

Wow. Just wow!

Firstly grow up. The R8 can only be compared to equivelant 911 models. How did you in your head work out that a comparing the R8 to much more powerful porsches, and some track ready porsches is fair? Like for like the R8 has beaten the 911.

Uh...

You can buy a Porsche GT3 for $107,500. That's more than $3,500 less than the R8's starting point, and a good $30,000 less than the loaded version. You're probably right on the GT2 and Turbo, though, and I'll grant you those.

EDIT: Just found the Turbo's starting price: $124,000. That's right in there with the R8, which goes up to more than $140,000. The GT2 starts at $194,000, so you were 1 for Three.

Yadda yadda yadda, porsche has already begun development on the 998, before they have even bought out the entire facelift range. Porsche dont like the existence of the R8 that is clear, so we might not see a successor.

Who said that there will be another one?

So it's more the flavor of the hour than I thought.

Who cares if you think its ugly? I think your car is ugly. Do you care about that?

Love you too. Oh, Yours is ugly, too.

God, You'd think you actually owned an R8. Are you that much of a fanboy that you get offended when someone says he doesn't like the way the car looks? I even said I was alone in my opinion. Don't get your panties in a twist just because I think the car's ugly. I just don't understand it's language, especially that stupid side strake thing that doesn't move, adds only some structural integrity, adds weight...

Someones forgotten about the existence of the le mans concept. Also get it right. The facelifted gallardo got its new updated chassis bits right off the R8

No, I haven't. The Gallardo was based on said concept, right? You said it yourself earlier. Thus, it's still within the R8's ancestry. I guess, though, if the updated chassis bits come from the R8, then it goes both ways: If you'd read the service bulletins, they were for electrical issues, which I doubt the R8 will have.

How do you know? Do you work for nissan?

Common sense. If something is wrong, you fix it, especially on your freakin' HALO model. Granted, you'll probably come up with some excuse like, "It's Nissan, they Dont' fix anything, they're just in it to make a quick buck."

I doubt the Hand-built GT-R is being built for a profit, not yet, anyway. and if there's a wear problem with the tranny, (and actually, I could see tolerances being so tight that lubrication could be a problem...happy now?) I could see it being fixed pretty quickly in subsequent build lots.

No I dont. Congratulations on spending your time proving something that no one ever mentioned or questioned.

Again, I point you to my opinion that the Gallardo was, in some ways, a development car for the R8. After all, it featured all those neat chassis things and such from the Le Mans Concept. Why wouldn't Audi take some of the lessons learned and apply them to the R8? That would be stupid not to. The cars share quite a bit, and I don't doubt the R8 will be a little more trouble-free for it.

The fact the Gallardo's revised suspension tuning is derived from the R8 just shows that it can go the other way, too. The cars compliment each other. I'll give them this: they aren't rebadges.