2008 French Grand Prix

  • Thread starter Thread starter nissan tuner
  • 164 comments
  • 8,296 views
Would melting the rear clamshell be counted as "accidental loss of a component"? Sure, it's accidental, but the component is still present.
 
as far as I know that you cant continue to race with a fixable damage such as tyres, wings and other chasis elements. but there are some other things that you cant fix them such as pipes, mirrors, barge boards etc. and if there will be a rule says "you lost your barge board you cant fix it then you are superlight this is not fair you are out". that would be stupid :)

and you know the car is not just burning fuel. It lost oil, water, hydraulics, water in water bottle, urine :)

anyway if you dont satisfied from my reply maybe you cant search it in here;
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/regulations/Pages/FIAFormulaOneWorldChampionship.aspx
 
Superbike Racer who only seemed to excell when leading the race. He was the 2006 and 2007 British Superbike champion.
Ah, okay. I'm not really savvy when it comes to the bikes the way I am their four-wheel counterparts.
Scaff
All I can say then is stop listening to the stupid hype.

Hamilton is only in his second year in F1 and as such would have only realistically driven for one team, yes he is fortunate that team is McLaren, however to then go and try and claim that he has never proven himself against other drivers on a level playing field is nonsense.

I take it you are aware of GP2? A formula series with identical cars, with very tight limits on set-up. A series which he came won in 2006, including a number of drives from the back of the field through to a high finish, most impressively in Istanbul, when after a spin that left him 18th he drove a blinding race to finish 2nd.

Magny-Cours is a track that is renowned for being poor in terms of overtaking spots and has for years been criticised for producing dull races as a result. Had it not been for the drive through penalty (which was his own fault - but do you really want to discuss the number of drivers, many top level, that get drive through penalties) its a good bet that he would have finished in the points.

I really do struggle to understand is the number of people who seem to write as if Hamilton just dropped out of the sky straight into an F1 car, he started racing at a young age and has had a lot of success and a lot of good races in his past.
I'm wholly aware of GP2 and how it is regulated, probably because it's pretty much the only way into F1 today. Sebastien Bourdais is the only current driver who made his way into F1 in a different fashion (though I'm unsure about some of the older drivers like Coulthard and Barichello). I've also noticed that most of the drivers of recent times who have been dropped from teams - the Liuzzis and Kliens of this world (I'm a little unsure about Scott Speed as well) - were also GP2 drivers who, while successful in that formula, couldn't cut it in F1, even if the numbers said they were good enough to do it. The only conclusion I can make is that they didn't make it because there is a huge difference between GP2 and F1.

Now, I'm not denying that Lewis Hamilton is a good driver. I think he's a great driver and that he's achieved a lot; in some ways he's the anti-Schumacher as he's brouht about a resurgence in the sport's popularity. I just don't think he's the best driver; Pat Symonds said it best when he said Jenson Button is just as good as Hamilton with the difference being that the latter has better hardware (and the former got screwed by Briatore in favour of Alonso). Looking at the current line-up, for me Hamilton is lucky to take sixth place in the "Best Driver" listing, coming in behind the Ferraris, BMW-Saubers and Heikki Kovalainen (because of his brilliant debut season where he just got better and better). Hell, Adrian Sutil out-classes him at Monaco; the German has proven to be a force to be reckoned with in the principality two years running as he topped the timing sheets in one session in a Spyker and was running fourth this year, as we all know.

My point is not that Hamilton doesn't have what it takes. My point is that Hamilton just lacks the skills as a driver in the midfield. That will come with time, but I seriously doubt his name will be immortalised on the trophy for the Drivers' Champion until he gets better at passing when he's not fighting for the lead. Sure, Magny-Cours might be tough, but that's not an excuse: the twenty drivers on the grid are the twenty best drivers in the world and this is the fourth time he's underperformed, each time on a vastly different circuit to the last. Hamiton's made it plain he can fight for the number one placing, he just hasn't proven he can do it where it counts. If he happens to have more results like these last two - even one or two might be enough to do it - he can kiss any ambition of the title good-bye. He might be a statistical outsider come Brazil, but he's already proven he can't hold up under pressure. Sure, he'll get better, but I doubt one year is enough for that. And that doesn't bode well for him because a driver's (or a team's) second season is regarded as the hardest: they know how the sport goes, they know what's expected and there are less excuses than in their first year. If Hamilton's second season pans out in such a way that he's out of contention for the championship with a few rounds to go, it could have serious consequences. Lewis-Love and Lewisteria aren't going to be enough to pull him though because the statistics say that when push comes to shove and Hamilton's in the midfield, the chances that he's going to pull through and produce the goods are not odds I'd play.
 
not to mention a titanium exhaust
Doesn't mean anything with regard to this particular topic as it would still weigh something, but I believe the exhaust part was made of inconel, not titanium, and I just love correcting Famine....

:dopey:
 
Ah, okay. I'm not really savvy when it comes to the bikes the way I am their four-wheel counterparts.
I'm wholly aware of GP2 and how it is regulated, probably because it's pretty much the only way into F1 today. Sebastien Bourdais is the only current driver who made his way into F1 in a different fashion (though I'm unsure about some of the older drivers like Coulthard and Barichello). I've also noticed that most of the drivers of recent times who have been dropped from teams - the Liuzzis and Kliens of this world (I'm a little unsure about Scott Speed as well) - were also GP2 drivers who, while successful in that formula, couldn't cut it in F1, even if the numbers said they were good enough to do it. The only conclusion I can make is that they didn't make it because there is a huge difference between GP2 and F1.

Now, I'm not denying that Lewis Hamilton is a good driver. I think he's a great driver and that he's achieved a lot; in some ways he's the anti-Schumacher as he's brouht about a resurgence in the sport's popularity. I just don't think he's the best driver; Pat Symonds said it best when he said Jenson Button is just as good as Hamilton with the difference being that the latter has better hardware (and the former got screwed by Briatore in favour of Alonso). Looking at the current line-up, for me Hamilton is lucky to take sixth place in the "Best Driver" listing, coming in behind the Ferraris, BMW-Saubers and Heikki Kovalainen (because of his brilliant debut season where he just got better and better). Hell, Adrian Sutil out-classes him at Monaco; the German has proven to be a force to be reckoned with in the principality two years running as he topped the timing sheets in one session in a Spyker and was running fourth this year, as we all know.

My point is not that Hamilton doesn't have what it takes. My point is that Hamilton just lacks the skills as a driver in the midfield. That will come with time, but I seriously doubt his name will be immortalised on the trophy for the Drivers' Champion until he gets better at passing when he's not fighting for the lead. Sure, Magny-Cours might be tough, but that's not an excuse: the twenty drivers on the grid are the twenty best drivers in the world and this is the fourth time he's underperformed, each time on a vastly different circuit to the last. Hamiton's made it plain he can fight for the number one placing, he just hasn't proven he can do it where it counts. If he happens to have more results like these last two - even one or two might be enough to do it - he can kiss any ambition of the title good-bye. He might be a statistical outsider come Brazil, but he's already proven he can't hold up under pressure. Sure, he'll get better, but I doubt one year is enough for that. And that doesn't bode well for him because a driver's (or a team's) second season is regarded as the hardest: they know how the sport goes, they know what's expected and there are less excuses than in their first year. If Hamilton's second season pans out in such a way that he's out of contention for the championship with a few rounds to go, it could have serious consequences. Lewis-Love and Lewisteria aren't going to be enough to pull him though because the statistics say that when push comes to shove and Hamilton's in the midfield, the chances that he's going to pull through and produce the goods are not odds I'd play.

+1,000,000

For sarters, I don't think Hamilton would've landed the drive through if he wasn't so hurried to gain positions. When Hamilton said last week that the penalty wouldn't affect him, well, that was proven otherwise on the first lap. I see Lewis is able to improve upon his mistakes in some cases, but it will take some time for some of the recent mishaps to fall away.

If this continues, imagine the flip-flop of nearly winning a championship in your first year, in the best car with (arguably) the best teammate. Then imagine driving like Fisichella the next year after, but without Alonso as teammate.

I'm not so much of an Alonso supporter, but he was Lewis' support in many cases. When Alonso parted ways, Lewis was handed the reins to a horse that might be too much for him at the moment.

He's not the first to go from a good year to a bad year, obviously, it's just the fact that his first two seasons (for a winning team) are becoming polar opposites. Anyway, all that said, time will answer it for us.
 
I'm wholly aware of GP2 and how it is regulated, probably because it's pretty much the only way into F1 today. Sebastien Bourdais is the only current driver who made his way into F1 in a different fashion (though I'm unsure about some of the older drivers like Coulthard and Barichello). I've also noticed that most of the drivers of recent times who have been dropped from teams - the Liuzzis and Kliens of this world (I'm a little unsure about Scott Speed as well) - were also GP2 drivers who, while successful in that formula, couldn't cut it in F1, even if the numbers said they were good enough to do it. The only conclusion I can make is that they didn't make it because there is a huge difference between GP2 and F1.
GP2 is totally irrelivent to the older drivers, as its only existed since 2005

Liuzzi never raced GP2 (F3000 champion back in 2004 - the series that GP2 replaced)) and Klien was also never a GP2 driver (or for that matter F3000, the closest being runner up in the 2003 Formula Three Euroseries. Scott Speed's best result in GP3 was third in the 2005 season, Kovalainen in second place and Rosberg who was the drivers champion that year.

Pretty much any driver who has placed outside of the top three in GP2 has never had more than a passing seat in F1. As such GP2 is generally considered a good feeder series to F1, much better than F3000 was in its last days.

Yes a difference does exist between the two formulas, but as a generalisation drivers that have done well in GP2 are also starting to do well in F1. Dismiss it all you want but getting through a field of cars in GP2 is no easy thing.


Now, I'm not denying that Lewis Hamilton is a good driver. I think he's a great driver and that he's achieved a lot; in some ways he's the anti-Schumacher as he's brouht about a resurgence in the sport's popularity. I just don't think he's the best driver; Pat Symonds said it best when he said Jenson Button is just as good as Hamilton with the difference being that the latter has better hardware (and the former got screwed by Briatore in favour of Alonso). Looking at the current line-up, for me Hamilton is lucky to take sixth place in the "Best Driver" listing, coming in behind the Ferraris, BMW-Saubers and Heikki Kovalainen (because of his brilliant debut season where he just got better and better). Hell, Adrian Sutil out-classes him at Monaco; the German has proven to be a force to be reckoned with in the principality two years running as he topped the timing sheets in one session in a Spyker and was running fourth this year, as we all know.
I don't believe I have said that Hamilton is the best driver on the track at the moment (in fact outside of James Allen, most people will not say that), however he is one of the strongest rookies on the grid.

As for Sutil at Monaco, sorry but are you having a laugh? He is a fair driver, no question about that, but practice sessions have so many variables of set-up and fuel load involved (not to mention the physiological factor of sandbagging, etc) to make they of little real importance. However what I notice you fail to mention in this case was that Sutil went out for practice very early in the session when it was dry, almost all the front runner went out when it was raining. So you appear to be claiming that Sutil is a better driver than Hamilton (and in this example just about every other driver) because he was quicker in the dry than they were in the wet!!!!!!!!!


At the end of the day this is motorsport and winning is what matters, and to throw Sutil's last two Monaco results into the mix in this conversation is daft. He failed to finish in 2007 (and qualified in 19th) and 2008 (qualifying in 19th again).


My point is not that Hamilton doesn't have what it takes. My point is that Hamilton just lacks the skills as a driver in the midfield. That will come with time, but I seriously doubt his name will be immortalised on the trophy for the Drivers' Champion until he gets better at passing when he's not fighting for the lead. Sure, Magny-Cours might be tough, but that's not an excuse: the twenty drivers on the grid are the twenty best drivers in the world and this is the fourth time he's underperformed, each time on a vastly different circuit to the last. Hamiton's made it plain he can fight for the number one placing, he just hasn't proven he can do it where it counts. If he happens to have more results like these last two - even one or two might be enough to do it - he can kiss any ambition of the title good-bye. He might be a statistical outsider come Brazil, but he's already proven he can't hold up under pressure. Sure, he'll get better, but I doubt one year is enough for that. And that doesn't bode well for him because a driver's (or a team's) second season is regarded as the hardest: they know how the sport goes, they know what's expected and there are less excuses than in their first year. If Hamilton's second season pans out in such a way that he's out of contention for the championship with a few rounds to go, it could have serious consequences. Lewis-Love and Lewisteria aren't going to be enough to pull him though because the statistics say that when push comes to shove and Hamilton's in the midfield, the chances that he's going to pull through and produce the goods are not odds I'd play.
Your argument about performing against expectations can be appied to any driver, in any team in any car. They will all have been set targets for the year. I could apply the self same criteria to Alonso, his fail of a pass at Monaco and finishing behind his team mate (a team mate that many people on here have said should be dropped next year), I could then link that to the huge attention he gets in the Spanish media and say that he is overhyped, has lost his edge and should watch his back next year.

As it stands art the moment we are 8 races into an 18 race season with only 10 points separating the top 4 drivers, a lot is still to play for. At this point any of these four drivers are capable of winning or losing the championship.


Regards

Scaff
 
The problem with James Allen is:
Annoying voice
Endless references to Senna
Always telling people how last night he showered with Ralf Schumacher and other useless facts like how lewis's car took a shark bite out of alonso's and how lewis is scared of sharks.
Annoying yelps of GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO or LEWIS HAMILTON...................................................................... WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS. Starting the sentence when hes on the last corner so he has to wait and stratch the words out as long as possible.

Apart from that he's awesome.
Replace Lewis Hamilton for Felipe Massa and you got the exactly same thing over here with Galvão Bueno, our commentator.

At the end of yesterday's race he kept screaming of how it was the first Brazilian victory in France since Piquet's in 1985, and how it was the first time a Brazilian was leading the championship since Senna in 1993.

It gets really annoying at times.

8th! 8th! He won Turkey and Brasil in 2006, Bahrain, Spain and Turkey in 2006, and this year has won in Bahrain, Turkey and now in France. 8! I have them all gold coated and on shiny oak pedestals, not far from my secret Rafaela collection.

I think maybe how unlucky kimi was today, Massa was similarly unlucky in Brasil of last year. Different cases, but both gave away races to each other in situations out of their hands.
Are you Brazilian?

Congratulations to Felipe Massa(?) on his win. Go ahead and play "Tema di Vitoria" as this Brazilian won in France. Or is that song only reserved for the late great Aryton Senna?
I grew up listening to Tema da Vitória every time Ayrton won a race, so to me the song belongs to him. But Globo plays it every time a Brazilian wins a race, be it Barrichelo, Massa or someone else.


Anyway, it was indeed a boring race for most of the time but I'm glad to see Piquet having a good race and Massa getting some luck for a change.
 
So the car was in the clear. However it was still a perfectly valid question from Famine and Rainmaster's tone was not really needed.

Regards

Scaff


Couldn't they also have given him extra fuel? And what counts as a component?
 
Couldn't they also have given him extra fuel? And what counts as a component?

I believe the cars are weighed without fluids. The combination of driver and empty car must exceed 605kg. When full of fuel and with the driver on board, the cars are pushing 700kg.
 
\Anyhow, this race should be remembered for a long time as it will be the last race here (unless Bernie lied about not racing here) and hopefully there will be a good replacement for this circuit..... there has been a few good races here, but unfortunately this years race isn't as much "exciting" as it was back during the Schumacher era...... :(
It's already been reconfirmed to host the French GP for the next two years, so it's not the last. :p
I imagine that will be good news to the teams and drivers.[/sarcasm]:dopey:
 
SpeedTV replay in 26 minutes for those interested.

Edit: Apparently, they're showing Inside Grand Prix beforehand.
 
Back