2008 Monaco Grand Prix

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Metar
Thing is, given normal mirrors, Sutil would've spotted the fishtailing Ferrari, and would've taken a shortcut in order to save his arse.
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At that point in, you are fully committed to the corner and are looking down to the exit of the corner, i would say Sutil went past the point of looking in the mirrors because the only way to pass is to get on the inside coming out of Tunnel. Kimi wasn't there so Sutil was 100% into that turn, if you are looking in your mirrors, you arn't 100%.
 
Did you see where the Force India mirrors are located? They're literally centimetres ahead of the head-protection - I'm not surprised if they're useless.

2008forceindiamirroshp9.jpg


Kimi started fishtailing while Sutil was also braking - they were far apart, but Sutil just started to turn when the impact occurred. With mirrors that don't vibrate like hell and are located so uncomfortably, he could've spotted him, and would have just cut the chicane in order to distance himself from the Ferrari - nobody would've punished him for that - but he didn't actually see him.


It's a known issue with the F1 mirrors - they vibrate, they're too small, and they're located in impossible locations just for aerodynamic reasons. That should be one of the key changes the FIA should look at - something like a steering-wheel mounted LCD screen (which doesn't turn, like the Citroen C4's one), fed by the live camera that's already on the car, would do wonders to help the drivers see oncoming charges.
 
Very painful race :(

Good job by Hamilton, even his error turned out to be helpful instead of a hinderance.

Sutil should've pressed L2 like I do under braking :). Very sad for Sutil indeed, seeing him choked up and nearly crying when interviewed was tough.

As for Mike Gascoyne, his comments were absolutely off base after the race. I don't care if he's emotional or pissed off or whatever. If Sutil managed to keep himself under control so should he. If I were Luca di Montezemolo I would call up Vijay Mallya and tell him to either go find a new pair of engines or feed Gascoyne to the fishes... but that's just me.
 
Gascoyne never was famous for being nice and quiet, though. :p


And it was a mistake by Toyota to let him go. He's dying at Force Midlandia Spyker - no funds for nothing.
 
Oh 🤬

Totally missed qualifying and missed the live race, but somehow, feel asleep watching the delayed telecast at the last moment!!!! :banghead: So I really didn't get too involved in the discussion, but just want to say a few sentences if you will.... :)

Well, as expected, the race was full of action and suspense throughout the wet race in Monaco. Monaco never disappoints! ;) As for the race, for many, they were lucky to get away with minor damages (Hamilton, Kimi) while others just had the bad luck (Alonso, DC, Bourdais, Sutil) But this is what happens in a wet race in Monaco, and I got to say I was very surprised by looking at the number of retirements. Maybe it didn't rain hard enough or that the caliber of driving skills of each driver has improved a lot. As for the winners, congrats to Hamilton for winning at Monaco, which he didn't have a chance to last year, and also a good performance by Kubica, outpacing Massa all the way. Indeed, it was an excellent race to watch, and hopefully, there are better races to come...... 👍
 
Ha ha, I don't know how you can classify Alonso as "unlucky". Sutil, yes... that was unlucky... Alonso's attempt to pass at the hairpin (on Heidfeld?) was about the most idiotic thing I have ever seen (well, in that race anyway). I'm not sure I'd describe DC and Bourdais as that unlucky either. I think Kimi was skillful in the way that he avoided a massive shunt, but very very lucky to come out of his collision with Sutil still able to finish the race...
 
Motominded
Gt could give you the run off area at Nouvelle chicane but everyone would shortcut the circuit and mass cheating would commence.

To add, the piscine (swimming pool) was extended for safety reasons in 2005 and has much more of a run off area.

So when GT made the track back in 1999-2000 for the 2001 GT3 game, it was probably accurate then.
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Apparently, the pit lane at Monaco for one race only was located on the seafront with the entrace just after the tunnel, and the exit joining the sea front chicane. I found a track map of it. Just click on the link to see it...

http://f1-facts.com/track/7/1972
 
Sutil was going over the chicane on that lap whether Kimi hit him or not. They both got caught out by the wet patch. Sutil's car bobbled over it and the tail stepped out a touch, but not as badly as Kimi's.



That picture is taken before impact, and he's already sideyways on opposite lock and was not going to be able to make the corner.
 
Good picture find, maybe felipe through a banana skin to do this?

[/conspiracy theory]

Any one having a weather forcast for canada? :p
 
daan
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:lol:👍
I know what the Japanese commentator is gonna say on that one....

Commentator 1: "There goes Kimi, he's closing down on Sutil, can he close in?"
Commentator 2: "Haito, haito haito haito haito haito!!!!"
Commentator 1: "Oh! He's in, he's in!!!!"
Commentator 2: "Oh...... Kimi tapped Sutil and both went crashing out!!!!"

and so on.....

:lol:
 
Metar
And Rosberg's actions this race should be punished. Not only did he sneak past Jensen while the latter made way for lapping traffic, but he also cut a corner at Piscine in order to prevent a payback for that. 👎
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I don’t think that should be punished, I think it should be praised.

You are allowed to overtake when lapping traffic, that is part of the strategy of lapping backmarkers. As for cutting the chicane, that is only illegal if you gain a position, which Rosberg didn’t do. So it was totally legal and very clever. 👍
 
Blake
As for cutting the chicane, that is only illegal if you gain a position, which Rosberg didn’t do. So it was totally legal and very clever. 👍
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It can't be 100% kosher.... or everyone would be doing it.
 
Blake
As for cutting the chicane, that is only illegal if you gain a position, which Rosberg didn’t do. So it was totally legal and very clever. 👍
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I thought it was illegal to cut a chicane to gain a position or if you were highly likely to loose a position?
 
Cutting a chicane is illegal if you gain a position, or if you retain a position you would have other wise lost.
 
TheCracker
I thought it was illegal to cut a chicane to gain a position or if you were highly likely to loose a position?
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Pedro de la Rosa and Michael Schumacher will tell you differently. ;)

About 4:15 in.

 
Excellent spot on the video, daan. I still think, however, that Sutil could've escaped Kimi with a better view of the situation - even something as trivial as skipping the chicane at a higher speed would've saved him.

daan
Cutting a chicane is illegal if you gain a position, or if you retain a position you would have other wise lost.
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But he was very likely to lose that position, but through cutting the chicane, he only let the lapping car through, but returned to the track ahead of the Honda. If Rosberg's move is legal, then surely it is ok for every other car lapping freely to cut the chicane - they're not losing a position. Neither are defending drivers. :dopey:

DQuaN
It is perfectly legal and good strategy, but also quite sneaky and probably frowned upon!
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And I don't think it should be legal. If anything, ban the blue flags rule, and let them duke it out regardless of position or lap. :\
 
Metar
But he was very likely to lose that position, but through cutting the chicane, he only let the lapping car through, but returned to the track ahead of the Honda.
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But he was letting a car through. That is a distinctly different situation to defending an overtaking move. Button didn’t even attempt a move, so Rosberg wasn’t defending his position at all.

Imagine if Button wasn’t there, but they were racing eachother through pit stops and Rosberg was on his in-lap. What if he cut the chicane to let a car lap him? He was just trying to let the other car past as quickly as possible without it affecting his own race – why should that be punished?

It’s a responsible thing to do when you’re getting lapped, to make sure you lose as little time as possible. The fact that Button was behind him changes nothing, because there was no overtaking attempt to defend.

Metar
If Rosberg's move is legal, then surely it is ok for every other car lapping freely to cut the chicane - they're not losing a position. Neither are defending drivers. :dopey:
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Now that’s just being cynical. You know the difference. :p
 
Because he abused that lapped car situation just shortly before in order to pass another driver - and Button was just behind him, ready to profit from any mistakes, or a slow corner due to lapping, on Rosberg's side.
 
Metar
Because he abused that lapped car situation just shortly before
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That was Button’s mistake. He should have been aware that Rosberg was behind his when he let the faster car through.
 
Blake
Pedro de la Rosa and Michael Schumacher will tell you differently. ;)

About 4:15 in.

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And again at 5:49, but this time Pedro gains the position despite the Ferrari cutting the chicane.
 
Blake
Pedro de la Rosa and Michael Schumacher will tell you differently. ;)

About 4:15 in.

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you had to of watched the 06 Hungarian GP to understand why he diddnt received a penalty.

de la Rosa passed him on the next laps and Michael's car broke down soon after.

 

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