2008 Monaco Grand Prix

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This may seem blunt but you are epic incorrect. It was Kimi's fault through and through.

Your both epicly wrong. Kimi didnt panic, he lost it on the wet patch. No fault on Sutil. These things happen. Its racing.

And Its not 100% Kimi's fault. DC did a similar thing in the dry. If Kimi hadn't have saved it then Kimi would have creamed into the back of Sutil anyway. I dont think you can blame it all on Kimi. He wasn't trying to overtake or anything silly, he just lost the back and couldnt save it in time to stop. What makes it worse is that Sutil had a big chance to get a good place.
 
Too bad for Sutil, Kimi did paid for it by scoring no points. now the the top 4 are only separated by 6 points. Great drive for Webber, Vettel and Kubica!

This is the only footage of the incident not banned on the tube....yet

 
Your both epicly wrong. Kimi didnt panic, he lost it on the wet patch.

..... which wouldnt have happened if he wernt so eager to pass him, Kimi lost his cool knowing that time was running out and wanted to get as many points as possible, he probably thought that because it was a Force India it would be like taking candy from a baby..

Too bad for Sutil, Kimi did paid for it by scoring no points. now the the top 4 are only separated by 6 points. Great drive for Webber, Vettel and Kubica!

So after all that he still scored no points! didnt have to take Sutil with him..:grumpy:

Sorry just venting ;)

Robin
 
..... which wouldnt have happened if he wernt so eager to pass him, Kimi lost his cool knowing that time was running out and wanted to get as many points as possible, he probably thought that because it was a Force India it would be like taking candy from a baby..

Robin, I respect your opinions but I think your wrong. I don't think he'd risk the points he had for a few more. Not with a risk like that. The back end steps out on him and he tries to correct it. No way can I see kimi trying a move from there. I dont think he braked late, either the back stepped out or he locked the rears like Massa did into turn 1.
 
Keep in mind that on the drying line, braking force is on the order of 4.5 to 5 Gs. Once he lost traction, braking force would be reduced to certainly less than 2, maybe even 1 G. It was an accident, pure and simple. Maybe Kimi's brake bias was tail-heavy, maybe he was just a bit off line into the damp. Whatever, it was not a bonehead move, just a mistake, and was actually a phenomenal bit of car control to keep the pointy end in front.
 
the more i read this, the more ridiculous it is. Racing incident, too bad. This is the first time Kimi has taken someone out. I wonder if this fire storm would be on sutil if he had been the one to take Kimi out.
 
Robin, I respect your opinions but I think your wrong. I don't think he'd risk the points he had for a few more. Not with a risk like that. The back end steps out on him and he tries to correct it. No way can I see kimi trying a move from there. I dont think he braked late, either the back stepped out or he locked the rears like Massa did into turn 1.

And I respect your opinion, I guess its just how people interpret it :).. and at the end of the day this is racing, crashes... in racing! No way! :sly:

Robin.
 
I just watched it.. Kimi didnt brake too late. Kimi wasnt to eager to pass.. He hit a wet spot or locked the rears and did a great job not to spin or hit a barrier. Racing incident totally. man i thought it would be worse than what it was with how you guys are carying on.
 
the more i read this, the more ridiculous it is. Racing incident, too bad. This is the first time Kimi has taken someone out. I wonder if this fire storm would be on sutil if he had been the one to take Kimi out.

i can guarantee sutil wouldn't be under this kind of fire because he's a rookie..

for a world champion to run into any rookie driver on a rookie team outside of a podium is disgusting. he's not even a threat to the championship and kimi would of kept the overall lead if he just stay put
 
Just watched it. Beign a spanish speaker I have to agree with what they said at the end of that video. They said maybe he had cold tyres, and knowing that it was wet and with no ABS all this ends up adding to is Sutil having his rear end tapped by raiki.
 
I hope so, Appie. The moment with Heidfeld just burst a bubble - he was chasing him so well, genuinely outpacing him, until he got overzealous into Loew's - not the best overtaking-corner, to say the least.


The local idiots at the cable-company published the wrong times, and I ended up missing the first 22 laps on my tape - shame, as they seemed quite awesome: I returned to find a BMW chasing a Ferrari, a Renault a BMW (shame it ended with both in the pits :(), and a Ferrari doing drive-through duties. Some very awesome, some very sloppy, and some downright shameful driving from some drivers today...

you should have heard what RTL commentators said about raikkonen, they said even idiot to him. and for them raikkonen should get a penalty for it

RTL put up their worst show so far. Every non-German got cursed at, no matter what. If it only it wasn't the only channel with F1, I wouldn't touch it again. Their bias broke every record in the book.

Whatever, it was a great race. The guy I feel bad for is Piquet, I wonder if he really wanted to go out on dry tires? Clearly wasn't in his skill set that's for sure.

He pitted far too early for those, indeed - at a time when even Alonso struggled (running off at the Swimming Pool), how should Piquet have handled it? Heck, 10 laps later, Jenson was just starting to handle them.

The weird thing is that the car didn't decelerate too well and began swerving instantly as he braked, unusual behaviour on cars that are set up to understeer safely in hard brakings.

He locked the rear wheels under braking - very normal this season, since the banning of Engine-Braking controls. Exactly what he struggled with in Melbourne - and something I wouldn't expect by someone of his caliber.

Bee
That seemed like a pretty huge accident for Rosberg, glad to hear he is ok but could have been alot worse. DC needs a result, badly, especially when Webber keeps on bringing in these 4th or 5th place finishes.

Finally, Barrichello scored his first points since 2006, good on him. :)

Rosberg had it coming - he was pushing very hard, on the very limit, and overstepped it quite often. He drove very fast, but very aggressive..

But Barrichello, Vettel and Nakajima... Paint my bottocks blue, that was good. And with Sutil, it could've been the ultimate result for the #2s and underdogs.

(Today made up for the time he drove off with the fuel pipe)

That would be his teammate Albers, at Magny Cours last season. Got sacked a race afterwards. :p

He seemed slightly more upset and less calm when talking to ITV's Louise Goodman after the race, it was like he was trying to stop sobbing. He was saying it was the best race of his carrier and that he may not have this opportunity again, it was a sad day.

Having seen the RTL Interview - he had visible dry tears there, too, but Sutil is known for his "brave face" in front of German media.

Toyota: What the hell was this? Such a good start! Man, Glock really sucked, he should drift instead in Japan :p

That Toyota seemed very robust - many other cars stopped dead after the stuff he pulled when he went ass-forwards into the wall. 5 NCAP stars? :dopey:

Robin, I respect your opinions but I think your wrong. I don't think he'd risk the points he had for a few more. Not with a risk like that. The back end steps out on him and he tries to correct it. No way can I see kimi trying a move from there. I dont think he braked late, either the back stepped out or he locked the rears like Massa did into turn 1.

You'd be surprised how impatient the top drivers get behind slower drivers. From the Hamilton battles at Bahrain, to the Heidfeld battles at Barcelona - they get very aggressive.

Raikkonen was too far away to even consider a maneuver - there's no doubt he wasn't trying to overtake on that corner - but he was definitely trying to catch up. I've rewinded my tape and watched the replays several times in slow-mo, comparing them to other shots of the same angle - and Kimi did start braking on the very edge. Sure - he would've made the corner, and a patch of rain was present - but hell, you don't take those kinds of risks, not in 5th and not in 15th place, in that weather.

Frankly, I have this suspicion that, if it had been Piquet or Nakajima doing that same maneuver in 15th place, nobody would bother not-blaming the driver. It'd be his fault straight away. :indiff:
 
That would be his teammate Albers, at Magny Cours last season. Got sacked a race afterwards. :p

My apologise to Sutil, now I have double the respect for him. Although Albers wasnt too bad either somedays.
 
I guess ones things for sure.... Sutil's future at Force India is well and truly secure even though the whole team may not be.. :sick:

Robin
 
Very fun race to watch even though ferrari > kimi were strungling. Poor sutil but racing incidents happen :(

Why is the force india future not secure?
 
Why is the force india future not secure?

Because teams at the bottom end of the grid run a very fine line, they don't have endless amounts of money and a lot depends on race results to attract media attention and sponsors... look at Super Aguri, everyone thought they were secure but after achieving very little they ran out of funds....

A 4th for Sutil would have helped the team tremendously... If I was a small to medium business and saw he got 4th I might think about putting my logo on their car.. ;)

Robin
 
Because teams at the bottom end of the grid run a very fine line, they don't have endless amounts of money and a lot depends on race results to attract media attention and sponsors... look at Super Aguri, everyone thought they were secure but after achieving very little they ran out of funds....

A 4th for Sutil would have helped the team tremendously... If I was a small to medium business and saw he got 4th I might think about putting my logo on their car.. ;)

Robin

I dont know, Force India is owned by a very rich man....also, results dont necessarily mean everything, I think people can look at the performance of the team that day and know that they were capable of a 4th place.
I think Force India have a few years left in them yet, they are not in as a bad a situation as, say, Pacific, Brabham, Mastercard/Lola, Arrows, etc etc were. Looking at those teams' history, I reckon we will see Force India for a few seasons more yet.

I'm interested to see if they bother trying to get another team to replace Super Aguri, maybe the Prodrive entry?
 
I've been watching this race since almost the beginning and I have one thing to say.



Rain on Monaco leads to lots of mistakes. I don't think I've seen this man incidents since I believe the first race of the season.

It's just brilliant! 👍
 
Man, I feel so bad for Adrian Sutil.

I wonder whether the teams ever think about designing some kind of bumper on their cars to help protect against brake checks and rear-ending.
 
Monaco GP + Changing Wet Conditions - Traction Control = Exciting Race!

What a classic!

First of all, congratulations to Hamilton for a well fought race… although even he must admit, luck was very much on his side. After all, when he hit the wall on lap 6 coming out off Tobac while approaching Swimming Pool, causing him to completely lose his right-rear tire, it looked as if his race was over then and there. Fortunately for him, he was very close to pit entrance and was able to get the car safely back to the pits for a set of new tires which caused him to lose only three spots. Even more fortunate was the fact that it wasn't nearly as bad as it looked, and his suspension was not damaged from the contact or the shredded tire.

If that was not enough good fortune, just two laps later the Safety Car came out for DC & Bourdais, which allowed Hamilton to catch up with the leaders, wiping out the nearly a full minute lead Masa had on him prior to the SC period. He was further helped by Kimi's Stop & Go penalty and Masa's hydroplaning into the run off at Sainte Devote on lap 16 - the same spot Kimi would visit later in the day.

Hamilton had a nice start by getting in front of Kimi, but it was pretty clear even in the first six laps before his accident, that Masa was pulling well ahead of him. In fact, for the first half of the race, both Masa and Kubica were really putting on a wet race clinic up front, each taking turns setting new fastest lap times, while stretching their lead from the rest of the pack. Until the track started drying off, Hamilton's personal best was still over a second slower than Masa's and Kubica's.

Speaking of Kubica… he rode superbly with a great race strategy to boot. His dual with Masa twenty laps into the race was fantastic to watch. 👍

It's hard to feel bad for a driver who finished in 3rd place, but the way Masa performed in qualifying and in the first half of the race when conditions were at their worst, I felt he really deserved a win today, and had DC not forced the Safety Car period and some better pit stop strategy, Masa may very well have won the race... although races like these are often filled with "what if's".

As for Webber… well I think he finished in fourth thanks to the mistakes of others rather than any significant effort on his part… sorry Webber fans… a few more laps and I suspect the man in the STR-Ferrari would have passed him as he did the majority of the field. In fact, even Barrichello appeared to be closing in on Webber as well.

Speaking of Sebastian Vettel, absolutely brilliant driving all things considered, I think he had the best overall driver performance today. He made some excellent passes, and extremely consistent and fast laps. Sure, a few of the drivers in front of him dropped out, but he didn’t go from 19th to 5th based only on luck. He posted the 7th fastest lap time of he race, and more importantly drove consistently, and made some well timed passes. Overall, it was a superb ride!

My award for Biggest Tool of the Race by a landslide was none other than Fernando Alonso. Not only for his many mistakes (and that was before he changed to the dry tires), but his horrid decision to try and make a pass on Heidfeld at the Grand Hotel Hairpin… the absolute worst possible place to make a pass on someone other than a lapped car that has pulled over... especially in those conditions, which of course resulted in Alonso turning and T-boning Heidfeld, and nearly getting hit from behind by Webber, Nakajima and Barrichello; and then causing a bottleneck of ten cars! 👎

My award for Saint of the Race easily goes to Jensen Button who on several occasions pulled over in order not to interfere with the lead cars… which brings me to the Devil of the Race, which is easily Rosberg, who took advantage of Button's generosity, and snuck in behind Masa when Button pulled over, thus allowing him to get in front of Button for position! 👎 I suppose it was Karma that finally got the best of Rosberg when he lost it going into the Swimming Pool, ending his race day in dramatic fashion on lap 62.

My award for Worst Break of the Day easily goes to Sutil, who after starting in 18th, had worked himself up to 4th, was having his best drive this year, and possibly of his F1 career, until lap 68 when Kimi hit him from behind.

Finally, as bad a day as Kimi had what with the tire change penalty early in the race, the front wing damage on lap 26 when he overshot Sainte Devote, and of course the front wing damage again on lap 68 when hit Sutil from behind, among others, at least he was able to post the fastest lap of the race with a blistering 1:16.689 on his second to last lap of the race.


BTW: I don’t understand the attacks Kimi is getting from people regarding the crash with Sutil… it’s as if they only read about it and didn’t actually watch the race, as it clearly showed both in real time and in replays, that Kimi, in his super-soft dry tires, hit a slightly damp part of the track coming out of the tunnel… which is easy to miss considering the change in light, and under breaking his rear right wheel lost grip. Frankly, I’m amazed Kimi saved it as well as he did… and don’t think for a minute I’m a Kimi fanboy, because I’m not. In fact, the only thing I respect about Kimi is his driving skills. Other than that, I could care less about the guy or that he drives a Ferrari. In fact, I am very much a fan of Sutil, and thought he drove brilliantly today.

However, even I can clearly see Kimi didn’t do anything stupid or foolish… it was a bloody accident in a close race in less than ideal track conditions, at the end of a race. No he didn’t break late… his bloody tire grip broke early. Geez.


Any way, overall it was a really exciting race with several tremendous individual performances. It gives me hope for the future of F1. 👍
 
I dont know, Force India is owned by a very rich man....also, results dont necessarily mean everything, I think people can look at the performance of the team that day and know that they were capable of a 4th place.
I think Force India have a few years left in them yet, they are not in as a bad a situation as, say, Pacific, Brabham, Mastercard/Lola, Arrows, etc etc were. Looking at those teams' history, I reckon we will see Force India for a few seasons more yet.

I'm interested to see if they bother trying to get another team to replace Super Aguri, maybe the Prodrive entry?

But he wont keep putting money into a project thats costing him. Hes not putting all his money behind this I don't think.
 
Alonso's silly move on Nick nearly caused a jam.
Nearly? I think you mean nearly caused a pile-up as it did cause a big jam:


Anatomy of a 'Tool Move'


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Because teams at the bottom end of the grid run a very fine line, they don't have endless amounts of money and a lot depends on race results to attract media attention and sponsors... look at Super Aguri, everyone thought they were secure but after achieving very little they ran out of funds....

A 4th for Sutil would have helped the team tremendously... If I was a small to medium business and saw he got 4th I might think about putting my logo on their car.. ;)

Robin

How can you say Super Aguri achieved very little? Sato's pass on Alonso was voted the best overtake of the year by F1 Racing magazine. That 6th place finish alone was a HUGE achievement. They made more points in 2007 than the Honda factory team. The only reason they ran out of money is because their sponsor SS United did not pay up at the end of 2007 for their advertisement on the car. I'm not sure how it worked out, but they're probably getting sued for it or something. The only reason Super Aguri didn't survive is probably because Honda felt threatened by it and cut their own funding to them or something along those lines.
 
I think that this race was probably one of the best this year. I watching it on the edge of my seat. Great race by Hamilton, Massa, Kubica. I really feel sorry for Sutil but what can you do. It will be interesting to see if Kimi is penalized five spots at the Canadian GP. I don't think he did anything wrong, he just hit a wet spot. It really could have been worse than him rear ending Sutil.
 
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