2008 Singapore GP.
- Thread starter MagpieRacer
- 354 comments
- 14,029 views
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
As soon as Rosberg served his stop-go and actually came off for the better, did you notice how the commentators got very close to suggesting he hadn't served the full ten seonds? If he had come out behind Hamilton, it never would have been mentioned; it ws kind of like Brundle suggesting Alonso brake-tested Hamilton when Hamilton ran into him at Bahrain as soon as it happened, even though Renault's telemetry showed Alonso never slowed.
In short, the BBC commentary can't come soon enough.
In short, the BBC commentary can't come soon enough.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
Eh, Brundle is a good commentator, he's watching what we see, so he can only observe and guess.
Rosberg did pull out an excellent lead, so it was surprising.
I think you're reading too much into this really....I mean, James Allen is pretty bad with his stupid comments, but then thats his job, to pull out silly lines to keep people's attention. Brundle on the other hand seems pretty un-biased as far as he can be anyway.
BBC commentary isn't going to be much different, I mean, its British commentary, of course theres going to be a slight bias towards the British drivers and teams. As long as they handle it like Murray Walker did, then its fine (where he went out of his way to defend people like Schumacher when he needed to).
I'll defend Martin Brundle though, he is a good commentator and I hope the BBC keep him on. If not, there's always Damon Hill or perhaps Jonathan Palmer again?
I'll say that Allen is unbearable though at times, point in case - his "OMGZ BEST PASS EVER!" comment when Hamilton went past Coulthard, or his repeating of the same line over and over, e.g. his line "this reminds me of Long Beach" at Valencia.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
I can't tell the difference between the two as they sound a little similar, but Brundle is defiantely the better of the two, even if only because he was a racer himself. I'm still disgusted with Allen for likening Hamilton's performance at Monaco to Senna because there's no replacement for the Brazilian, and I believe one man has ever come close to a drive worthy of being likened to him: Sebastian Vettel at Monza. In the wet, in a car that is not known to be competitive (until Vettel got his hands on it), on the fastest circuit in the championship and constantly under threat from the faster cars is something worthy of Senna. Winning after twenty minutes' rain on a circuit that is known and notorious for processional racing does not make for a Senna-like drive.
To be honest, they weren't that bad to begin with, this time ... and then Ferrari decided to show us precisely how not to be a Formula One team with Massa's pit stop, and the commentary went from "bearable" to "insufferable".
Last edited:
- 318
- BMfan\GTP_BMfans
Okay so based on your quote no one should overtake unless there is a gap the width of the track or maybe everyone should just qualify and then we can call it the end of the race weekend and give the points.
- 1,230
Uh, okay? Any other you'd like to mention?
I think you're letting your preferences cloud your judgement.
Hamilton has way more rain performances than Vettel - to the point Hamilton's known to be right at home in the wet. Just look at Spa - lagging behind most of the race; as soon as it starts raining, BAM; utter domination.
As for this race, funny how Alonso disqualified himself from the points after starting 15th. Never say never.👍 Hamilton: another come from behind performance, I think I'm seeing a trend of him having to bail his team for bad strategy a couple of times, wonder how much longer he'll keep pulling these tricks. And I'm happy for Nico too, one of the forgotten great talents of F1.
ROAD_DOGG33J
Premium
- 13,904
- IL, USA
- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
My favorite moment of the race:
"We don't know what's going on, so push like hell"
It was a shame that Massa's race was ruined by his team. And then Raikonnen paid the team back by letting go of any points he could have had.
"We don't know what's going on, so push like hell"
It was a shame that Massa's race was ruined by his team. And then Raikonnen paid the team back by letting go of any points he could have had.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
No, I'm saying that long dives down the inside on a dangerous part of the track are irresponsible. Sure, Hamilton's favourite tactic is to cross them and frce the other driver to take the corner wide and recover in time to beat them in the drag-race out of the corner, but he did it to Webber in Italy and they both went off ... what would have happened if he and Coulthard had touched?
Maybe it was just that everyone else who caught someone at that corner had a faster car than the other, but they had pulled alongside the other driver long before Hamilton caught up with Coulthard. Maybe it's just because Hamilton has a history of aggressive starts and passing moves when everyone else is much cleaner. Maybe it's because I just don't like the kid and think he's an arrogant little four-letter-word-that-will-be-blocked-by-the-swear-filter for violating the holiest of holies in making himself out to be the Second Coming of Ayrton Senna, as if Senna's soul somehow settled in Hamilton's body on May 1st, 1994. Maybe it's because I think he's one of the most over-rated drivers to have ever raced in the sport, but I think he's dangerous.
- 2,903
- Kyoto
- GTP_L_Hamilton
Because he didn't pit? Then he was in front he was 1 and half to 2 secs slower then Nico and Trulli. Then when he finally pitted his car is so off the pace that his race is through. Besides having the joy of making Massa, who was hounding him for laps, spins. Poor Fisi.
Renault, are you sure you like giving up Fisi for Piquet now? Last years car was bad but Fisi still managed to come in the points almost every race. So much for Piquet.
-> 
Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,259
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
Having a bloke with a Lollypop in front of the driver is soo old fashioned.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,039
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
And yet you admire Senna? One of the single most agressive drivers the sport has ever seen, a man who deliberatly took a competitor off the track to ensur ehe won the world championship!
Hamilton is no more dangerous that a lot of other drivers on the track, and a lot less than a good number of them.
The pass on Coulthard was not dangerous at all, hell using your criteria lets ban all passing on street circuits, because potentially any pass on any corner is dangerous.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Don't get me wrong, I think the kid is good. But I think the problem is that he was born into his F1 career with a silver spoon in his mouth, as it were. Sure, this is only his second year, but everyone else who is competitive - Raikkonen, Massa, Kovalainen, Alonso; even Vettel - has had the experience of a bad year. They've all had to fight their way through bad cars and bad races. To me, it's like they've earned the right to be comptitive. Kubica is the only real exception given that he's also quite new, but I imagine an almost-but-not-quite-as-good season would be just as frustrating as parking the car eighteen times in eighteen races.
Let's put it this way: I have a friend in my college who does thirty-hour weeks. It's her first year, she never has a night off, somehow manages to do all this extra-curricular stuff as well, and in short barely has time to eat or sleep. Yet last semester, she pulled one high distinctions, two distinctions and a pass (but it was the kind of unit where you either passed or failed; there were no grades). I have a lot of respect for her, because I've seen how hard she works, and she's earned everything she gets. But there's another person, one who lives on my floor who does exactly the same course. She goes out every other night, comes back home drunk at two in the morning and has more noise complaints filed against her than anyone else in the college for her tendency to turn her music up as loud as it will go when she gets home, I've never seen her do any work (nor has anyone else, for that matter), she sleeps in until well after noon and only goes to class when she has to. And yet last semester she pulled four high distinctions. Maybe it's just natural talent, but she wonders why no-one respects her. She hasn't earnt her stripes, she just shows up and takes full marks without giving anything.
My point is that all the other drivers are like my frend: they've done the work, and they've endured. Hamilton is like the girl on my floor: while she has talent, she just sits back and doesn't do anything. I know it's not a perfect analogy, but do you see where I'm getting? I respect hard work over natural talent any day. Yes, Hamilton deserves his McLaren drive, and I'm not trying to take that away from him. But put him in a car that isn't a McLaren or a Ferrari, and see what he does. Personally, I think he'll flounder because on the occasion where he has started from a position that didn't allow him to control the race, he hasn't done that well for himself. Monza is an exception, probably because of the rain thing.
To be over-rated doesn't mean people think you're good when in reality you shouldn't be there in the first place. I think Hamilton is a good driver. I just don't think he's so great it's worth having an orgasm every time he makes a pass regardless of whether it was clean or not.
To be honest, I think being arrogant - or so self-confident that you look that way - is a part of being a good racing driver. You have to have this kind of narcissistic super-confidence to be able to propel a Formula One car around a cicuit ar 300km/h on you own, much less while competing with twenty other like-minded individuals. I just think Alonso takes it one step further. Tactically, I don't think he has any equals in the current grid. His problem is really Flavio Briatore; every other team seems to have this unspoken policy that they'll favour both drivers equally until it emerges that one is no longer in contention for the title. But Renault don't do that; they favour one driver from the outset and by and large leave the other to his own devices. They'll still support him, just not as much. Alonso's problem was that he expected the same kind of preferential tratment from Ron Dennis and the boys over at McLaren. In theory, he had a point: Hamilton was just this green kid in his debut season, and while great thigns were expected of him, I don't think people were really anticipating nine straight podium finishes in his first nine races.
However, that doesn't mean the Spaniard consistently rates highly on my list of favoured drivers. Ironically enough, he's down with his former team-mate in the tail end often as not. The only drivers they consistently out-ranked were Christjian Albers, Scott Speed and Ralf Schumacher. And no, I haven't updated my list for 2008 yet. I tend to do that at the end of the season because it's really hard to judge new-comers when they haven't raced yet.
- 7,113
- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
Let's not start another LH post race debate. I think he did a very good job in this race, the pass on Coulthard was brave but not dangerous, in my view.
Oh, and Scaff, please leave Senna out of this. Prost closed the door on him (when he had the inside into the corner) both in Suzuka 1989 and in 1990. I know both incidents are debatable, but 19 and 18 years have passed since, and there's not much more that can be said.
And by the way, there's only one guy I know that deliberately turned the wheel to make his car ram another, and to win a championship. He did it twice, and got lucky once.
On topic - Alonso was brilliant, and so was Rosberg. Ferrari was a mess. Not much more to say.
Oh, and Scaff, please leave Senna out of this. Prost closed the door on him (when he had the inside into the corner) both in Suzuka 1989 and in 1990. I know both incidents are debatable, but 19 and 18 years have passed since, and there's not much more that can be said.
And by the way, there's only one guy I know that deliberately turned the wheel to make his car ram another, and to win a championship. He did it twice, and got lucky once.
On topic - Alonso was brilliant, and so was Rosberg. Ferrari was a mess. Not much more to say.
- 453
Last edited:
The 'dangerous overtaking' argument in this thread makes me wonder how anyone on this website ever plays GT5P online without bleeding from the ears.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with how Hamilton overtook. It's sport, it's no different to how footballers lean in slightly on each other when jostling for position for a corner.
Except, in this case it would be how two footballers... leave each other alone and allow the attacker to head it home before trying to squeeze him behind the tall bloke you were meant to in the first place.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with how Hamilton overtook. It's sport, it's no different to how footballers lean in slightly on each other when jostling for position for a corner.
Except, in this case it would be how two footballers... leave each other alone and allow the attacker to head it home before trying to squeeze him behind the tall bloke you were meant to in the first place.
- 36,525
- Scotland
- GTP_daan
Do You Race? - Rosberg went up the inside of Trulli at that same corner. He was completely locked up, and therfore out of control to a certain extent, yet I don't see you complaining about him.
If you look at it outside of your prejudices, Hamilton's overtake on DC was fine.
If you look at it outside of your prejudices, Hamilton's overtake on DC was fine.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,039
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Its a poor analogy mainly because it simply doesn't apply, if anything it would actually be better aimed at KR (rather well known for his party attitude and dislike of testing).
His 'priveleged' position amounts to being sponsered by McLaren throuh part of his youth, he still had to prove himself a good enough driver in feeder series and had to prove himself against a team-mate in his first F1 year who is considered one of the best in the field.
Results are what matters here and quite frankly this is a smoke and mirrors distraction to your dislike of him.
Hell Senna had a far more priveleged enterance to motorsport, given that his family was very wealthy and the cost of kit, karts, track time and drives was never an issue for him. That doesn't take away from his sheer ability on the track, nor the work he put into the teams he raced for. Nor should it for anyother driver.
So why is this acceptable in the case of Alonso, but not of Hamilton?
I see double standards at work here.
In theory he had a point, but anyone with even a modest understanding of F1 teams and how they behave would know that McLaren don't work that way. Never have and never will. Alonso must (or should) have known that before signing on the dotted line, to then moan about it contantly didn't do him any favours.
Regards
Scaff
However, that doesn't mean the Spaniard consistently rates highly on my list of favoured drivers. Ironically enough, he's down with his former team-mate in the tail end often as not. The only drivers they consistently out-ranked were Christjian Albers, Scott Speed and Ralf Schumacher. And no, I haven't updated my list for 2008 yet. I tend to do that at the end of the season because it's really hard to judge new-comers when they haven't raced yet.[/QUOTE]
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Didn't see that one; I have a position around my college and that position requires me to close everything up of a night, and the Powers That Be usually like that done early on, so I missed about twelve or fifteen laps of the race.
Scaff, let's just agree to disagree. I don't know where you stand on the matter, but it's obvious I don't have a hard-on for Hamilton (I'm not implying you - or anyone else for that matter - does), and I don't think there's much that's going to change my view of him (I'm stubborn like that). I don't like Hamilton, I don't have any respect for him beyond the respect that comes with doing something I know I'll never be able to do, and many of his comments make it less and less likely that I ever will. I'm not sure what you're trying to do here, but whether it's telling me my opinion is slightly flwed for whatever, or rope me onto the Hamilton bandwagon, but it's not going to happen. I might be judging from an armchair, but instinct tells me Hamilton isn't deserving of anything resembling what I show for others like Massa and Vettel, and I've learned to trust my instincts.
- 36,525
- Scotland
- GTP_daan
Rubbish quality, but it was the only one I could find.
Have some ownage back.
youtube
Last edited:
- 318
- BMfan\GTP_BMfans
Massa suck's as a racer he either has a lot of luck or he crashes when he isn't on one of the few tracks he can actually drive-that's my opinion on massa-he MUST NOT win the title
Kimi was fast in the first few races then schumacher came back and now he is slow and make's stupid mistake's now-he doesn't deserve the title.
Lewis has been fast most of the year with a few mistake's and he has done most of the work to get McLaren to the top-he should win it
heikki i am not even going to waste my time
Kubica i would love it if he won the championship but BMW need to improve their car,hoping for next year
Ferrari don't deserve the championship-i can't even count the mistake's they have made.
McLaren if they win it great that's only because BMW can't and i don't support ferrari.
Before you people say i hate everything ferrari i tell you now that's not true,i was so happy when kimi won the constructers last year and i was hopping it would have been him and LH fighting for it this year.
I wish kimi never joined ferrari because it causes a conflict of interest-i want kimi to win but i don't want F to.
That's my opinion on this season.
If i had my way it would be Kubica and BMW leading.
That's what it takes to overtake in F1 otherwise you sit behind the other car for 30 or so lap's
Kimi was fast in the first few races then schumacher came back and now he is slow and make's stupid mistake's now-he doesn't deserve the title.
Lewis has been fast most of the year with a few mistake's and he has done most of the work to get McLaren to the top-he should win it
heikki i am not even going to waste my time
Kubica i would love it if he won the championship but BMW need to improve their car,hoping for next year
Ferrari don't deserve the championship-i can't even count the mistake's they have made.
McLaren if they win it great that's only because BMW can't and i don't support ferrari.
Before you people say i hate everything ferrari i tell you now that's not true,i was so happy when kimi won the constructers last year and i was hopping it would have been him and LH fighting for it this year.
I wish kimi never joined ferrari because it causes a conflict of interest-i want kimi to win but i don't want F to.
That's my opinion on this season.
If i had my way it would be Kubica and BMW leading.
That's what it takes to overtake in F1 otherwise you sit behind the other car for 30 or so lap's
Last edited by a moderator:
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,039
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
I have no particular allegance to any specific driver (rather more just a McLaren fan - have been for a long time) and I'm quite happy to give praise when due and critisise when due as well.
However your posts seem to have a habit of taking a pop at Hamilton when he has done nothing wrong at all and often ignoring the same/similar actions from other drivers.
If a driver screws up then I am all for raising it, but to consistently villanise a single driver, mainly on the basis of personal dislike, rather that actual actions or ability is not something that people will tend to ignore or leave without comment.
Oh in the rain, anyone else on the grid > Massa.
Scaff
@BMfan - Please stop double posting, if you have more to add and no one else has replied then use the edit button rather than simply posting again. Thanks.
- 3,108
- Cary, NC
- mrbabyboyd
Great race by Alonso. The race was certainly better than I thought it would be. Maybe this has been mentioned before but I think if you have to serve a stop go penalty you should have to serve it right away instead getting time to build up your position. ANyway looking forward to Fuji.
- 1,537
- GTP_Soundtrack
Since MS won a race in the pits purging a penalty, they clarified the numbers of laps you are allowed to race before you must be gaining the pits. The lap times there is up to the driver.
By the way, being penalized for running out of fuel at the time of a safety car should not happened in the the first place. My opinion, of course.
By the way, being penalized for running out of fuel at the time of a safety car should not happened in the the first place. My opinion, of course.
