2008 Spanish GP

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According to Turun Sanomat Kovalainen reacted by instinct and pulled his legs towards him and let go of the steering wheel when he saw that he could not do anything to stop the crash. Also, the marshals were agitated as they saw Heikki's helmet being red - which turned out to be paint from the tyrewall.

and yahooooooo i've managed to Join a site (Full Race , clips , Previews....onboards ) gonna download the spanish Gp now :)
 
Bourdais braked kinda early, Piquet a little late - but they were side-by-side when Bourdais turned in. He has to know when to give up on that corner, like any other driver...

But still an position is an position and there 66 laps not 3. So he could have waiten his shot and overtook. He was bound to overtake him anyway.
 
But still an position is an position and there 66 laps not 3. So he could have waiten his shot and overtook. He was bound to overtake him anyway.

Seventh lap, and that was his shot - Bourdais mucked up and braked early, and Piquet used that opportunity. Every driver would've taken it, and every slightly more careful driver would've left him room to complete that overtake.
 
Seventh lap, and that was his shot - Bourdais mucked up and braked early, and Piquet used that opportunity. Every driver would've taken it, and every slightly more careful driver would've left him room to complete that overtake.

But yet they both retired and i fail to see that its the fault of Bourdais.

Discussion ends here, KTHXBAI
 
Piquet was inside totally but he came very late, wonder if he would have made the corner anyways... Bourdais technically should not have closed the door ...

my conclusion: racing accident.
 
Well at least the news of Kovalainen is that he seems okay and hopefully would be able to race in Turkey. 👍
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2008/04/27/overnight-stay-for-kovalainen/
No news about the tire failure, but most probably it was a wheel rim failure.
I read somewhere about a stone being caught inbetween the rim and the tyre leading to the deflation.

[EDIT]
Daily Telegraph
The McLaren team are still analysing the rim, but they suspect that grit or gravel, caught between tyre and rim, may have cut into the metal until it failed. The jagged rim would then have sliced the tyre, causing the sudden deflation that pitched Kovalainen off the track.
But also, could this be the final nail in the coffin for gravel traps? It obviousley didn't help the situation as the car merely skipped over. Would it be possible to have some way to physically penalise a car if it ran off track without it causing a problem in an accident.
 
But also, could this be the final nail in the coffin for gravel traps? It obviousley didn't help the situation as the car merely skipped over. Would it be possible to have some way to physically penalise a car if it ran off track without it causing a problem in an accident.


Also wasnt a stone from Piquets off blamed for Anthony Davidsons radiator failure. Definitly a bad day for gravel!!
 
But also, could this be the final nail in the coffin for gravel traps? It obviousley didn't help the situation as the car merely skipped over. Would it be possible to have some way to physically penalise a car if it ran off track without it causing a problem in an accident.

Paul Ricard's runoffs are an example. First stage are regular runoffs, second stage have a special surface that damages the tyres (in a bid to stop the car more quickly - a safety-feature) and the third stage actually damages the underbody. Ultra-safe and would penalize a car, but how dull would that look? We'd need it painted grass-green :p
 
But also, could this be the final nail in the coffin for gravel traps? It obviousley didn't help the situation as the car merely skipped over.

That's not entirely true. I got this bit of info from F1-live.com:

"The team has established that Kovalainen's speed was approximately 240km/h when the tyre deflated and about 130km/h when he hit the tyre barrier. He experienced a 27g deceleration."
 
That's not entirely true. I got this bit of info from F1-live.com:

"The team has established that Kovalainen's speed was approximately 240km/h when the tyre deflated and about 130km/h when he hit the tyre barrier. He experienced a 27g deceleration."

But a decent bit of tarmac would've stopped him far more efficiently. For the distance he traveled, F1 cars could come to a dead stop with room to spare, even without one wheel.
 
But a decent bit of tarmac would've stopped him far more efficiently. For the distance he traveled, F1 cars could come to a dead stop with room to spare, even without one wheel.

Yup and somewhere in the rules says that the other 3 brakes have to work in case of these situations.
 
Ultra-safe and would penalize a car, but how dull would that look? We'd need it painted grass-green :p

Dull? Paul Ricard looks like something out of Tron;

aepaulricard76606yj9.jpg


:eek:
 
Yup and somewhere in the rules says that the other 3 brakes have to work in case of these situations.

Yeah, but they say nothing about preventing car from bouncing (and wheels from lifting off the ground). That makes that other rule rather dull during a crash.
 
Piquet did rather well at the start, except when he ran wide into the sand. Had it been one of the parking-lot circuits, he would've rejoined with just a position or two lost. And really, his retirement was 100% Bourdais' fault - Piquet was side by side and on the inside, when Bourdais just turned into him...

And Hamilton got his seat for a very good reason - he was in the McLaren development program for ages, and was routed into the McLaren. Luck had nothing to do with it - just years of a planned future, coupled with lots of driving-skill on Hamilton's side.

Well first things first. Piquet qualified 21st (out of 22) in his first race in Melbourne! Even Heikki did a better job than him last year.... Also, he only finished once this year so far, and that was 11th. 👎 In the Spanish GP, he actually lost ground and lose a few places. Then he tried too hard to catch up and went of the track after trying to overtake and made contacting with somebody and then just had to try and overtake Bourdais a few laps later......... Bad luck or inexperience? You decide for yourself....

As for Hamilton, again, he was lucky. How many drivers would actually get into the McLaren development program? Fernando Alonso and Kimi Räikkönen didn't even have any special development program and had to struggle to be on top. Even Michael had to earn his spot......
 
As for Hamilton, again, he was lucky. How many drivers would actually get into the McLaren development program? Fernando Alonso and Kimi Räikkönen didn't even have any special development program and had to struggle to be on top. Even Michael had to earn his spot......

:rolleyes:

Here we go again.

Do you honestly believe that Lewis was born in an F1 car? Second, such ignorant figures that you never saw Lewis's brilliance during his karting time.

He just deserved to have that and so far, he won an title in every series he driven in.
 
:rolleyes:

Here we go again.

Do you honestly believe that Lewis was born in an F1 car? Second, such ignorant figures that you never saw Lewis's brilliance during his karting time.

He just deserved to have that and so far, he won an title in every series he driven in.

Okay, look. I think Hamilton is way too overrated by everyone!!!! I don't care what his background was or how people call him a "great" driver and a future world champion and all, but in the end he is just another driver in F1..... Okay, never mind. I'm not gonna start another argument here again..... :grumpy:
 
Okay, look. I think Hamilton is way too overrated by everyone!!!! I don't care what his background was or how people call him a "great" driver and a future world champion and all, but in the end he is just another driver in F1..... Okay, never mind. I'm not gonna start another argument here again..... :grumpy:

Then why did you started it in the first place:ouch:
 
Piquet did rather well at the start, except when he ran wide into the sand. Had it been one of the parking-lot circuits, he would've rejoined with just a position or two lost. And really, his retirement was 100% Bourdais' fault - Piquet was side by side and on the inside, when Bourdais just turned into him...
Actually wrong. Piquet attempted an extremely ambitious manuever that was only gonna work maybe 10% of the time. Sticking your nose in on the inside on the very last metres very close to turn-in point (especially on what looked to be a hairpin corner) is dangerous. You see Kimi, Alonso, Massa, Hamilton or Kubica and Heidfeld sticking their nose in a lot of times when they're behind a slower car, but they don't actually pass because they know they don't have room. Piquet did actually stick his nose in on one of those occassions and it backfired on him and took out himself and Bourdais from the race with it. Piquet's retirement was about 90% his own fault. Bourdais did what every normal race driver would have done in the situation. Not expect someone to try a move that doesn't work.
 
Dull? Paul Ricard looks like something out of Tron;

I'm fine with this - but the runoffs at Spa, Bahrain or the other carpark-tracks, which do look dull. Would love to see Ricard-style strips. I always thought those were CGI shots when I saw the first Peugeot 908 pictures. :p

Well first things first. Piquet qualified 21st (out of 22) in his first race in Melbourne! Even Heikki did a better job than him last year.... Also, he only finished once this year so far, and that was 11th. 👎 In the Spanish GP, he actually lost ground and lose a few places. Then he tried too hard to catch up and went of the track after trying to overtake and made contacting with somebody and then just had to try and overtake Bourdais a few laps later......... Bad luck or inexperience? You decide for yourself....

As for Hamilton, again, he was lucky. How many drivers would actually get into the McLaren development program? Fernando Alonso and Kimi Räikkönen didn't even have any special development program and had to struggle to be on top. Even Michael had to earn his spot......

Bad luck and inexperience. In his first few races, he was very far off the pace, for a simple reason - Alonso is a top driver, Piquet was a rookie doing his first real races. It's not like Nakajima, Bourdais, or other rookies were that much better in mid-field equipment, either.

You see Kimi, Alonso, Massa, Hamilton or Kubica and Heidfeld sticking their nose in a lot of times when they're behind a slower car, but they don't actually pass because they know they don't have room.

Funny you mention Heidfeld. His pass on Fisichella was very dangerous - if Fisico wasn't the courteous, skilled driver that he is, Nick would've had to retire and Fisico would have to stop for a new wing. Heidfeld passed Fisichella on the outside of a fast corner, and went right into the inside of it - Fisico had to brake very hard in order to avoid Heidfeld's rear. That maneuver was far riskier than Piquet's, but against a more experienced driver.

Or mentioning Raikkonen, who pulled exactly those moves in the Australian GP, sometimes running off the track as a result, yet luckily didn't actually retire. He did, however, nudge another driver out of his way once on that race, and was very close to contact with several more. When he finally got past Barrichello, he went through the inside - and immediately ran to the outside, forcing the Honda driver to come to an almost-complete stop. Guess what? If it wasn't for Barrichello's acceptance that he was passed (after a long and courageous battle), Raikkonen would've had another visit to the sand - possibly even retiring as a result.

Those drivers have the pace to outrun backmarkers by as much as two seconds per lap - but they can't pass simply because of the dirty wake generated by the slowest of cars. Even a top car like Ferrari struggles to generate enough downforce to pass during a turn - hence why most of those overtakes are at either drafting on a straight, or side-by-side braking-battles into the corner. They know there's room for two on the track - GP2 proves there's place for three on some circuits, actually - but they know they don't have the downforce to come close enough during the corners to actually pass sensibly. Piquet out-braked Bourdais into the corner, no matter how tight it was, or how much it would have to compromise his, or Bourdais' line through that corner.

As for Piquet (also directed at Muzaffar), he put up a strong drive until he ran wide into the sand, which cost him lots of time. Objectively, the crash can't really be attributed to either, because Piquet went for an existing gap which Bourdais opened when he braked earlier than usual, while Bourdais closed the door, perhaps not realizing Piquet already went through. Personally, I believe it was Bourdais' duty to prevent a crash in a pass that already happened - he could've run a little wider, and spare the two of them the embarrassment of yet another retirement. Yet people seem to write it off as Piquet's fault almost immediately, whether because of his previous finishing-record, or other reasons.
 
I think both of the drivers are to blaim. Piquet's manouvre was way to optimistic, and Bourdais just slammed in on him. Piquet should've waited untill the straight, not there. He just ducked in, by the time they went into the corner, Piquet was already close, and this is where Bourdais should have indeed make room for Piquet. It nearly looked as if Bourdais did it on purpose. I never really liked Bourdais though...
 
Or mentioning Raikkonen, who pulled exactly those moves in the Australian GP, sometimes running off the track as a result, yet luckily didn't actually retire. He did, however, nudge another driver out of his way once on that race, and was very close to contact with several more. When he finally got past Barrichello, he went through the inside - and immediately ran to the outside, forcing the Honda driver to come to an almost-complete stop. Guess what? If it wasn't for Barrichello's acceptance that he was passed (after a long and courageous battle), Raikkonen would've had another visit to the sand - possibly even retiring as a result.
???

There was no nudging in Melbourne for Kimi. Unlike Piquet, when Kimi ran too deep in the braking for Turn 3 after the safety car (trying to pass Kovalainen), he AVOIDED contact instead of trying to force his way through (causing him to go wide on the gravel).

As for the pass on Barrichello, there was no "almost-complete stop" for him... Barrichello ran to the outside curb which caused him to loose traction, and since there was no chance to pass on the inside in turn 4, he backed out early.

Metar
As for Piquet (also directed at Muzaffar), he put up a strong drive until he ran wide into the sand, which cost him lots of time. Objectively, the crash can't really be attributed to either, because Piquet went for an existing gap which Bourdais opened when he braked earlier than usual, while Bourdais closed the door, perhaps not realizing Piquet already went through. Personally, I believe it was Bourdais' duty to prevent a crash in a pass that already happened - he could've run a little wider, and spare the two of them the embarrassment of yet another retirement. Yet people seem to write it off as Piquet's fault almost immediately, whether because of his previous finishing-record, or other reasons.

Oh you'd call Piquet's 2 laps(not counting the 2 laps behind the SC) he did before running off "a strong drive"? He started from P10 and was P10 before running wide... I guess if you'd call that strong then what was Kimi, Hercules?

That crash was in no way Bourdais' fault... the distance that Piquet came from was just lunatic, that move would've only worked in a videogame playing against AI.
 
Personally, I believe it was Bourdais' duty to prevent a crash in a pass that already happened - he could've run a little wider, and spare the two of them the embarrassment of yet another retirement. Yet people seem to write it off as Piquet's fault almost immediately, whether because of his previous finishing-record, or other reasons.

I don’t understand why you feel the guy being passed has a duty to let the other guy past if he makes a move. Piquet tried a stupid move, he was barely alongside when they touched. If you do a dive bomb up the inside you need to get ahead before the turn-in to the corner so you can be certain the driver you’re passing can see you.

I know if Bourdais had seen Piquet coming he would, like any driver, try to avoid the accident. But Piquet did not correctly asses the overtaking move. It’s debatable if he could have even made the corner without running wide and slowing right down if he’d not ploughed into the side of Bourdais. Sure, you can say Bourdais should have let him through and gone back underneath on the corner exit, but he didn’t check his mirrors before turning in because Piquet’s move was never on!

IMO the accident was Piquet’s fault because he made the choice to make a dodgy move. At this level you can’t expect people to just let you past.
 
Pat Symonds now claims Renault have within 1% performance to run with top teams. With 4 races down & 14 to go, can Fernando Alonso make a comeback to win 2008 WDC? Now it appears we have 4 teams in the front pack. Good times for spectators...
 
Within 1% still means being around 0,9 seconds per lap behind the fastest car in the qualifying and finishing the race a minute after the winner. Performance like that and winning the championship don't quite match if I may express my opinion.
 
Within 1% still means being around 0,9 seconds per lap behind the fastest car in the qualifying and finishing the race a minute after the winner. Performance like that and winning the championship don't quite match if I may express my opinion.

Of course you may express your opinion, it's a forum. I am not a car or team fan, but a stone cold driver fan. Of course I love the F1 'car', but I only watch to see Alonso drive. When he does well, I'm euphoric. When he does not, like in Spain particularly or the season so far actually, I'm gutted. But due to the Regie's recent improvement in performance I'm optimistic once again. Wouldn't be spectacular if he got his revenge? I know it's a long shot but a true fan always sticks with his driver. Most here hate him and won't admit his driving brings such excitement to F1 when he's got a good car and a team who SUPPORTS him!:)
 
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