2008 Spanish GP

[Metar]

Noone 'bottomed out at the 'Ring', tool. They 'planed out because only one team started with intermediates, Spyker. Charle Whiting mssg'd the teams prior to 'lights out' stating they may do so. Only Spyker chose to, resulting in their short-lived lead. The other teams took a chance, but pitted when the forecasted rain happened, 'ight?Furthermore, wets have no more "surface area" than prime or option tires, but full treads to channel water away. To start with them in dry conditions would result in rapid overheating. Hence the failed strategy. Same at Fuji for Fernando. I'll stop "ranting" when you ditch the pompous attitude. I'll have frys & a shake,McDonalds boy.

Some facts:

1) Obviously the aquaplaning at first was caused by the dry compound tyres used by most teams. But explain why seven drivers went off at the same corner, in the torrential rain, after having switched to Intermediate tyres? Guess. I happen to have learned this from Christian Danner, the RTL Network commentator, who, despite being a backmarker in an '80s Zakspeed F1 car, still drove quite a few more races than you did - and happened to have discussed these incidents with the drivers.

2) Indeed, wet-compound tyres don't have a larger surface-area (because that one's restricted to 440cm², and because the deep threads greatly reduce said area compared to a dry tyre). And yes, they also have threads to channel away water, and yes, they'd overheat and wear out very quickly - but they are wider and have a larger diameter. FIA Regulations state:

12.4.2	Complete wheel diameter must not exceed 660mm when fitted with dry-weather tyres or 670mm when fitted with wet-weather tyres.

Which means half an extra centimeter of height - which is quite a lot, for an F1 car. This was designed specifically to avoid cars from "bottoming out" on water. On a wet track, the tyres on the racing-line slice through the water - but the rest of the car, normally above the track, may touch the circuit. In the case of the 2007 Nurburgring race, the "lakes" of water were several centimeters deep, and so the wooden plank at the bottom of the cars touched the water, lifting the wheels from the ground and sending the car into an uncontrollable skid. No driver can avoid this if it happens, and the risks of this happening are far higher on Intermediates, who have the same diameter as a dry-weather tyre.

3) Yes, they were allowed to switch tyres - at the expense of starting from the pit-lane. Therefore, it's obvious why not a single driver chose to do except for debutant Winkelhock - and even himself and Spyker admitted that it was a risky gamble that they opted not to take with Sutil, because, and I quote (and translate from German), "Sutil had a chance of keeping up with the pack, but Winkelhock was hopeless anyway - so we took the gamble". It obviously paid off for them, but it was risky.

4) You actually said something bad about your precious Fernando? And something wrong at that? It was Kimi and Massa who tried to start on Intermediates at Fuji and discovered it was too wet for it. And Alonso went off at Fuji not because of regular aquaplaning but because of a piece of underbody, probably broken off by an earlier impact with Vettel, got stuck under his right-rear tyre, locking it up. This sent him spinning against the direction he turned - he turned left, but spun to the right. Plus, I don't see how this has anything to do with bottoming out, having smaller tyres, or me working.

For the record (and you may like this bit), I was referring to Muz, who bashed Alonso's 2005 and 2006 championship without an idea what he was talking about. He then apologized for it, and I see no reason to re-open that subject.

And last: Oil-temperature in a McDonalds vat is 182c. Want some of it? What job did you have during highschool?

 

[mustang245]

Many times Fernando has completed a race with a damaged car, the accident was attributed to 'AQUAPLANING'. You can refute the facts and substitute your own truth if you like. In the first place, I used the 'Ring crashfest to illustrate the point that a race in the wet would result in similar results. No TC would be a disaster and DC and others have stated as much. And, you going on about ride height is pointless. After qualifying ride height is set, under parc ferme conditions. If it rains you're stuck with what you have. If rain is ominent, teams allow for it. Whatever your 'expert' said is heresy, whatever you say is up for scrutiny. My issue is you taking apart everyones post as if your the resident 'expert'. About oil temp, you sound like an expert at that. Enjoy the race...

 

[Metar]

Many times Fernando has completed a race with a damaged car, the accident was attributed to 'AQUAPLANING'. You can refute the facts and substitute your own truth if you like. In the first place, I used the 'Ring crashfest to illustrate the point that a race in the wet would result in similar results. No TC would be a disaster and DC and others have stated as much. And, you going on about ride height is pointless. After qualifying ride height is set, under parc ferme conditions. If it rains you're stuck with what you have. If rain is ominent, teams allow for it. Whatever your 'expert' said is heresy, whatever you say is up for scrutiny. My issue is you taking apart everyones post as if your the resident 'expert'.

The ride-height isn't just a "setting" that one plays with like in video-games - it is the distance between the sprung parts of the car and the ground, and as such, will vary as the radius of a tyre changes. In this case, bigger radius = higher car. When the FIA restricted tyre-diameters, Wet tyres were allowed to be slightly larger exactly in order to prevent that phenomena.

And yes, a rain-soaked GP might end up complete chaos, but then again - drivers did it for half a century before traction-control returned. They'll adapt - and those who don't will probably end up out of the race. Yes, it might mean drivers losing control, but even then - the tracks are very, very safe in case of someone running off. As for safety-hazards, worse things are, like that sandtrap in Australia which send Glock flying.

And there's a difference between finishing with a damaged car, and a piece of it breaking off and making making you lose control of your car. You could indeed say it was aquaplaning, because in most aspects it was - but a piece of the underbody was seen flapping near the rear wheel and touching it - and it breaking off would've locked up the rear wheel. Under normal, dry circumstances, he (and most other drivers in the days of engine-braking control) would've easily caught that, but as you said - in that weather, grip-levels could've been too low to regain control of the car.

About oil temp, you sound like an expert at that.

Indeed, the effin' thing beeps whenever that temperature changes, and I've worked there for quite a while

Enjoy the race...

Thank you, I will - hope you enjoy it too. I hope to see Alonso on the podium, and guess you will hope the same. As for putting my username between apostrophes, you can skip that - that's my real name.


I'm logging off for the night, and will return with comments on Monday, watching a taped race. 12-hour Sundays suck.

 

[darkfinal]

As for putting my username between apostrophes, you can skip that - that's my real name.

You have one helluva cool name, man. o:

 

[Motominded]

Time to put your bet for the podium tomorrow.

1. Raikonen
2. Kubica
3. Hamilton

 

[Blake]

My thanks to Bob Bell, Pat Symonds & Flavio Briatore for getting the R28b competitive.

It’s not a b car. It is just an R28 some new aero and mechanical parts. Most competitive teams are bringing new parts to every single race this year, but the designation of the cars does not change. F1 cars are prototypes, a change to the designation usually isn’t necessary unless there is some major overhaul, usually involving a completely new monocoque and change in the layout of the car. Not just a few new parts.

For those here suggesting Vettel to Ferrari, please, he needs to finish a race

He finished 4th in China last year. In a Torro Rosso. Incidentally much higher than Alonso has finished this year in a Renault.

You have one helluva cool name, man. o:

 

[mustang245]

It?s not a b car. It is just an R28 some new aero and mechanical parts. Most competitive teams are bringing new parts to every single race this year, but the designation of the cars does not change. F1 cars are prototypes, a change to the designation usually isn?t necessary unless there is some major overhaul, usually involving a completely new monocoque and change in the layout of the car. Not just a few new parts.



He finished 4th in China last year. In a Torro Rosso. Incidentally much higher than Alonso has finished this year in a Renault.

Agreed.

 

[Bram Turismo]

'Exited' no. Excited, yes. Excitement has kept me watching Formula One for the past 10 years. According to your profile you were 8 when I became a fan of the sport, so don't explain to me why Alonso 'may' be doing a good job. If anything, it's because of much needed improvements to the Renault's, a light fuel load and Fernando Alonso's gifted driving. Though I'm no expert, I do not need 18 year olds explaining to me the in & outs of the sport. Oh, one more thing, 'ROO'. Don't lecture me on politeness. I've twice welcomed 'new members' in this thread alone. Why don't you do the same. And 'Metar', you're comment to 'Z' about his photo quality previously in this thread was arrogant and pissed him & me off. It's no wonder new members don't hang around long. News flash, I'm not going anywhere...

Let me tell you a few things:

1) Since when am I telling you the "in and outs'" of the sport? Just give me one good reason why I should believe Renault to be back at the front. Renault hasn't been anywhere in any of the races so far, why should I believe they managed to produce a topcar in just the three weeks between Bahrain and Barcelona?

2) Alonso's gifted driving? Give me a break here! He is a good driver, along with Kimi easily the best out of the pack, but we all saw what kind of dirty tricks he played on Lewis last year. As long as Alonso is treated as the team's hero, he will shine. But once his teammate is right up his rear wing, he is the most idiotic driver of the pack.

And last but not least:

3) Roo should indeed give you a course in politeness. You can claim what you want, but I have noticed you tend to get aggressive from the moment someone says something wrong about Alonso.

Conclusion: Relax man

 

[Motominded]

15 mins left!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm afraid I can't share your enthusiasm. I don't much lke the Circuit de Catalunya; I agree with the people who think it creates a procession as opposed to a race, and the addition of the chicane last year was a mistake. Sure, it occasionally produces good racing and I recall reading somewhere that statistically, the circuit is the most likely to produce a wet race, but decent racing doesn't occur frequently enough for my liking. When Bernie decides once again that a country can only host one Grand Prix at a time, I hope it's Valencia that stays, if only to create some varition. Catalunya shouldn't be anything more than an alternative to Paul Ricard.

 

[Motominded]

I'm afraid I can't share your enthusiasm. I don't much lke the Circuit de Catalunya; I agree with the people who think it creates a procession as opposed to a race, and the addition of the chicane last year was a mistake. Sure, it occasionally produces good racing and I recall reading somewhere that statistically, the circuit is the most likely to produce a wet race, but decent racing doesn't occur frequently enough for my liking. When Bernie decides once again that a country can only host one Grand Prix at a time, I hope it's Valencia that stays, if only to create some varition. Catalunya shouldn't be anything more than an alternative to Paul Ricard.

Welcome to the world of modern race circuits.

Seriously, even Spa is a just of vision of what it used to be.

 

[Danny]

Bourdais and Vettel out.

 

[Motominded]

So what's the opinions on Alonzo's pace through 7 laps?

 

[Motominded]

that was a horrible wreck for kovalainen, i hope he is ok, it's never ever good when the host broadcast won't show the scene!

He looked as if the car was under the tires!

 

[Touring Mars]

That looked nasty for Kovaleinen Thank goodness for the tyre barrier, but let's hope he's alright...

edit: Looks OK 👍 but the car is mess!

 

[Motominded]

they got him out on a stretcher!

You could see the damn hole under the chassis. it was behind the bulkhead

I hope his legs arn't broken.

 

[Greycap]

Head on into the tyres at well over 200 km/h, I can only hope the cars are as strong as they should be.

CONFIRMED INFORMATION: He's alive for sure and waved at the crown from the stretcher when he was carried away. 👍👍👍

EDIT - And late again.

 

[Motominded]

Sad to see Alonzo retire.

David Hobbs on Rosberg engine failure "it's a japanese engine"

 

[Earth]

That was probably the most boring motorsport race I've seen all year

F1 can beat their chest all day about having the fastest cars, but it's been proven time and time again the faster the car is the harder it is to pass

Lack of traction control hasn't helped the drivers to pass, it's just causes them to crash

The circuits F1 runs on doesn't help, they've butchered the Hockenheim track and other great tracks like Spa have been removed from the schedule in favor of highly technical hard to pass cookie cutter tracks

 

[Appie]

And an easy win for Ferrari. 1-2

 

[nissan tuner]

anyone think the GP2 race before this was a little more exciting?

poor Vettel..

 

[Muzaffar]

*sigh*

Another Ferrari win, hoo haa..... Well done Kimi, hope this contributes to your 2nd WDC..... 👍
Aaaaaaanyways, the race was very decent and exciting (unlike Bahrain) and sad to see Hamilton nor Kubica taking the challenge to Ferrari. To hear Heikki survived that accident was really amazing and the fact he didn't even have a bruise! Goes to show how well F1 cars are made nowadays. If the car was something like a few decades ago, that would have been a serious injury.

Alonso and Nelsinho failed to finish the race meant that Flavio is one grumpy old man.... Both Toro Rosso failed to finish, Toyota was well of the pace, Button made the best out of it, (shame that Rubens finish his 256th race with a retirement) Webber did an excellent job finishing 5th (likewise for DC 👎) and Sato's 1 stop strategy backfired on him, but good to see them manage to finish the race. 👍 Hopefully the will stay in F1.......

 

[Nitrof1]

another boring race...

 

[Bram Turismo]

About Webber, did anyone see his stop/go penalty?

I mean, Trulli was no more than 5 seconds behind Webber, and Trulli made a 3rd pitstop. Yet, Trulli finished more than 20 seconds behind Webber, is it me or was that a really fast stop/go?


Damnit, Trulli! This could be a 5th!

 

[Lee]

It was Heidfeld who had a drive through penalty for pitting under SC before the pit lane was open, which is stupid as he was on fumes anyways.

Crappy race, but go Button!

 

[Viper-Fan]

another boring race...

I agree, not much overtaking if any at all. Bahrain has been the best so far in terms of entertainment IMO. Hopefully Massa will have an answer to Raikkonen's pace at Istanbul.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

The race wasn't the most exciting, but pretty good watching considering it's Catalunya. Being an Aussie, I'm happy to see Webber continue a strong run, it's looking like his best championship yet. Awesome to see Button up in 6th place too!

The circuits F1 runs on doesn't help, they've butchered the Hockenheim track and other great tracks like Spa have been removed from the schedule in favor of highly technical hard to pass cookie cutter tracks

Spa Francorchamps is still part of the schedule.

In another thread you state Formula One sucks, so why do you bother watching?

 

[Muzaffar]

I agree, not much overtaking if any at all. Bahrain has been the best so far in terms of entertainment IMO. Hopefully Massa will have an answer to Raikkonen's pace at Istanbul.

Bahrain? Best? I think Melbourne was still the best race of the season so far.....

Earth: I got only one thing to say to you. STFU and get out of the sub forum!!!!! If you got nothing good to say about F1, don't bother saying it at all!!!!

The race wasn't the most exciting, but pretty good watching considering it's Catalunya. Being an Aussie, I'm happy to see Webber continue a strong run, it's looking like his best championship yet. Awesome to see Button up in 6th place too!


Spa Francorchamps is still part of the schedule.

In another thread you state Formula One sucks, so why do you bother watching?

Can't agree more.

 

[Viper-Fan]

Bahrain? Best? I think Melbourne was still the best race of the season so far.....

Fair enough. I thought Melbourne was ok. Quite a few incidents though. Bourdais did an awesome job first time out.

 

[Robin]

Oh man was that a boring race... I fell asleep for most of it!

That bit with Kovaleinen was dramatic and Im glad he is ok... What is this with Mclaren and their wheel failures!

Other than that Ferrari started... lead... then finished... like the Schumacher days.... meh...

I was hoping for a bit more fighting from Alonso and also Kubica but it never happened...

Good race from Webber, Button and also Force India who I think got a point!

Oh and that bit before the race where the Ferrari team boss said "we touch our... oh i can't say on TV" .... I think he ment touch wood but got it oh so very wrong!

Robin