2009 American Le Mans Series Thread

[RACECAR]

Who here is willing to bet that he(or De Ferran) will be the reason Acura wins the manufacterers championship(should they win of course)?

 

[[empty space]]

ALMS where P1 cars get beat by P2 cars on a regular basis because Audi is 5 seconds a lap faster then the other mom and dad P1 cars so they have to equalize them by giving the P1 audis a bogus weight penalty

im curious, i thought that the p675/p2 cars were just a different way of going for over-all wins. less weight and less power, but, similar down force and power/weight ratios. The difference between P1 and P2 isnt as great as the difference between GT1 and GT2.

ive conisder lmp900/lmp1 and lmp675/lmp2 equal since the mg ex257 came along.

are the audis not running ~925kg diesel min weight?

moving onto another alms topic, i miss the panoz protos. acuras already proved that a lmp2 customer chassis with a factory engine can be a front runner, so itd be nice to see panoz do the same thing. the panoz gt2 engine is a 3.4l v8, correct? why not drop it into a 07S and devlope the chassis/engine/drivetrain which is a lot cheaper than making a new car.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

im curious, i thought that the p675/p2 cars were just a different way of going for over-all wins. less weight and less power, but, similar down force and power/weight ratios. The difference between P1 and P2 isnt as great as the difference between GT1 and GT2.

ive conisder lmp900/lmp1 and lmp675/lmp2 equal since the mg ex257 came along.

They aren't equals. The P1 class should be getting the overall wins. Just look at the results for the 24 hour race at Le Mans.

are the audis not running ~925kg diesel min weight?

I think the LMP2 cars are allowed run lighter than they should be by ACO regulations.

 

[[empty space]]

They aren't equals. The P1 class should be getting the overall wins. Just look at the results for the 24 hour race at Le Mans.

Le Mans is dominated by P1 cars by theyre higher top speeds that the p2 cars just cant match. from various sites, top p2 cars are barely making 500hp while p1 is making closer to 650hp, if not more. not to mention the diesels 700+ft-lbs.

but, lets take a look at tracks like sears point/infinion and mosport. neither really have long straights, but, a lot of fast corners which allows the lighter p2 cars to really shine. they can corner much faster and brake later than the heavier p1 class. then another benifit is that it takes less hp to accelerate quickly which allows them to keep up with, if not go faster than the p1 cars.

though i must admit, if peugeot had entered all season, it would have been a 908 walk over so in a way its good that they arent.

I think the LMP2 cars are allowed run lighter than they should be by ACO regulations

how so? theyve always been a different means to the same goal.

LMP1 = LMP2 imo.

 

[[empty space]]

sorry for the double post, but:

LMP1 eligible GT1 engines get a capacity increase to 7.0 liters

think GM will bite?

Mulsanners Corner.com May news

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

how so? theyve always been a different means to the same goal.

LMP1 = LMP2 imo.

Actually I'm not sure if LMP2's are lighter or LMP1's are heavier or both, but the weight difference is bigger in the ALMS than it would be if they followed the ACO weight regulations. I think the ALMS allows them to have more power. Basically, the ALMS adjusted the rules so the LMP2's would be able to compete with the LMP1's. The LMP2's should not be able to challenge for the overall win except maybe the odd win or so.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

sorry for the double post, but:



think GM will bite?

Mulsanners Corner.com May news

im thinking they might after what was posted on the unoffical P&M Blog Badboyvettes.com

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Actually I'm not sure if LMP2's are lighter or LMP1's are heavier or both, but the weight difference is bigger in the ALMS than it would be if they followed the ACO weight regulations. I think the ALMS allows them to have more power. Basically, the ALMS adjusted the rules so the LMP2's would be able to compete with the LMP1's. The LMP2's should not be able to challenge for the overall win except maybe the odd win or so.

Correct, but I must say I´m glad IMSA has chosen to go their own way with the ACO regulations. The P1 field is sad to say the least, so having P2 stepping it up is very good for the racing indeed, and looking at the season so far, it has been very entertaining. I also like the shorter races in the ALMS, compared to the 1000km/6hrs of the LMS. The LMS is fun to watch aswell, but the excitement kind of stalls halfway through a race.
And the LMS runs strictly ACO rules, so the P2 cars are way off the P1 pace. It´s unlikley the P2´s even make the top 10 in a LMS race.

 

[RACECAR]

Correct, but I must say I´m glad IMSA has chosen to go their own way with the ACO regulations. The P1 field is sad to say the least, so having P2 stepping it up is very good for the racing indeed, and looking at the season so far, it has been very entertaining. I also like the shorter races in the ALMS, compared to the 1000km/6hrs of the LMS. The LMS is fun to watch aswell, but the excitement kind of stalls halfway through a race.
And the LMS runs strictly ACO rules, so the P2 cars are way off the P1 pace. It´s unlikley the P2´s even make the top 10 in a LMS race.

When you think about, all six (or five?) races are not run on street courses and to my memory, none of them are compact tracks like Mid-Ohio or Lime Rock so technically, the P2s don't stand a chance by default.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

When you think about, all six (or five?) races are not run on street courses and to my memory, none of them are compact tracks like Mid-Ohio or Lime Rock so technically, the P2s don't stand a chance by default.

Yeah, that´s true aswell! Infact, the tracks in the LMS (Catalunya, Monza Spa, Nürburgring and Silverstone) clearly favours the P1 cars, being highspeed circuits.
But even so, if the ALMS ran strictly by the ACO rules, the P2 class shouldn´t be very competitive, no matter where they race, except maybe St.Petersburg and Long Beach.
But I´m glad that is not the case, since an Audi cleansweep would be a real drag.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

I'd expect the ALMS to move closer to full ACO regs next year when/if the Acura P1 turns up. Theres are also rumours about some privateer P1's coming.

 

[JohnBM01]

That would be great for sportscar racing. We now need more GT1 entries. That's even if there are a bunch of privateers with outdated cars.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

You can kiss goodbye to GT1, Aston Martin are focusing on P1 and GT2, while GM are looking at similar options.

BMW are joining GT2 next season, so that class will become much more exciting.

 

[RACECAR]

You can kiss goodbye to GT1, Aston Martin are focusing on P1 and GT2, while GM are looking at similar options.

BMW are joining GT2 next season, so that class will become much more exciting.

So just because only Aston Martin and Chevy, GT1 will cease to exist? You forget there is still Lamborghini, Maserati
(despite the 1 car effort) and Saleen. If I recall, isn't there also a Koenigsigg entry?

 

[kjb]

So just because only Aston Martin and Chevy, GT1 will cease to exist? You forget there is still Lamborghini, Maserati
(despite the 1 car effort) and Saleen. If I recall, isn't there also a Koenigsigg entry?

I hope so. It would be sad to see Gt1 die off.

 

[MustangSVT]

So just because only Aston Martin and Chevy, GT1 will cease to exist? You forget there is still Lamborghini, Maserati
(despite the 1 car effort) and Saleen. If I recall, isn't there also a Koenigsigg entry?

Which GT1? The one in ALMS? the last couple of ALMS races I've seen, it's only 2 Corvettes. The true "GT1" battle happens in FIA GT, but that's not to ACO rules.

 

[RACECAR]

Which GT1? The one in ALMS? the last couple of ALMS races I've seen, it's only 2 Corvettes. The true "GT1" battle happens in FIA GT, but that's not to ACO rules.

I'm assuming FIA GT Looking at Jaguar1977's post:

You can kiss goodbye to GT1, Aston Martin are focusing on P1 and GT2, while GM are looking at similar options.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

The GT regs in ACO series and FIA GT are being changed in 2010, possibly 2009.

The manufactuers want a single GT class based on GT2, but with some cost cutting.

The FIA GT organisors want to retain a GT1 class, again based on GT2, but with more power and bigger wings.

The manufactuers are mainly concerend with Le Mans and ACO series, the FIA GT series is little more than a gentlemans championshop, only Vitaphone and a couple of the Corvette teams have been consistent challengers year on year, the other cars have been passed from one team to another.

Reiter are considering building a GT2 car, while Maserati's plans have been up in the air for some time, they may go to P1 with a coupe, GT2, or stay away, likewise Steve Saleen has plans for a GT2 version of his new car.

There is no longer a need for GT1, manufactuers can enter P1 with a new Coupe with road car styling cues, which the ACO are using to encourage Aston Martin and GM, and go for the overall win, or they can enter GT2 with a car that has more relevance to the manufactuers roadcar models. GT2 cars are only 3-4 seconds slower than GT1, with a few years development they'll be even closer.

 

[The359]

So just because only Aston Martin and Chevy, GT1 will cease to exist? You forget there is still Lamborghini, Maserati
(despite the 1 car effort) and Saleen. If I recall, isn't there also a Koenigsigg entry?

Maserati's program ends this year, Steve Saleen is already looking to build a GT2 car, and the Lamborghini program is mostly produced by Reiter Engineering on their own.

The Koenigsegg is a "I'll believe it when I see it on the track."

 

[JohnBM01]

What's starting to seem a bit funny is that I've looked on this death of (or at least on life support) GT1 as being kind of like the GARRA formula. Not that the two series share any bond, just having a single class of GT cars reminds me a great deal of the Rolex Sportscar Series whereas you have two basic classes of car. If LMP1 gets scrapped or has no hope of really being saved, we're probably just going to have one prototype class and one GT class. The thing I've missed is that there isn't too much interest in high-class GT cars. Probably not enough interest in high-class prototypes as well.

There are currently four classes of competition- P1, P2, GT1, and GT2. Do you think we may have only three or two classes in the coming years? I would say that three classes could emerge, only if teams could somehow agree to and create racing machines like the aforementioned "LMP1 Evo." Those are the cars that are basically high-class GT cars created as highly capable prototypes. More like the classic IMSA GTP cars I've loved so much. But do you think the ALMS (and maybe even in the 24 Hours of Le Mans) could be whittled down to about two or three classes of car, or can this four classes of car retain its longevity in the coming years?

 

[MustangSVT]

So just because only Aston Martin and Chevy, GT1 will cease to exist? You forget there is still Lamborghini, Maserati
(despite the 1 car effort) and Saleen. If I recall, isn't there also a Koenigsigg entry?

I see someone already commented on this, I've never seen any Koenigsegg entry. And the Lamborghini car may well be a GT2 car because it barely keeps up with the GT2 cars.

This is what FIA GT has in the GT1 class.

Vitaphone Racing Team
GT1
1 Maserati MC 12


Vitaphone Racing Team
GT1
2 Maserati MC 12


Selleslagh Racing Team
GT1
3 Corvette Z06


PK-Carsport
GT1
4 Saleen S7

Phoenix Carsport Racing
GT1
5 Corvette Z06



Phoenix Carsport Racing
GT1
6 Corvette Z06


Larbre Competition
GT1
7 Saleen S7


IPB Spartak Reiter Engineering
GT1
8 Lamborghini Murciélago



Gigawave Motorsport
GT1
10 Aston Martin DB9



RBImmo-B Racing Team
GT1
13 Saleen S7



JMB Racing
GT1
15 Maserati MC 12



Jetalliance Racing
GT1
33 Aston Martin DB9


Jetalliance Racing
GT1
36 Aston Martin DB9



ACA Argentina
GT1
37 Ferrari 550 Maranello


Basically, you got:

3 Corvettes
2 Saleens
2 Astons
2 Maseratis
1 Ferrari
1 Lamborghini

The Ferrari and Lamborghini are pretty slow I'd imagine. And none of them are factory backed I believe. And again this is FIA GT, which has the fullest GT1 field.

LMS has 6 cars in total, 2 C6Rs, 2 DBR9s, 1 Saleen, 1 Lamborghini.

ALMS has 2 cars last I checked, 2 C6Rs.

Unfortunately, GT1 is on the way out. Hopefully more teams will join GT2 at some point.

 

[[empty space]]

What's starting to seem a bit funny is that I've looked on this death of (or at least on life support) GT1 as being kind of like the GARRA formula. Not that the two series share any bond, just having a single class of GT cars reminds me a great deal of the Rolex Sportscar Series whereas you have two basic classes of car. If LMP1 gets scrapped or has no hope of really being saved, we're probably just going to have one prototype class and one GT class. The thing I've missed is that there isn't too much interest in high-class GT cars. Probably not enough interest in high-class prototypes as well.

There are currently four classes of competition- P1, P2, GT1, and GT2. Do you think we may have only three or two classes in the coming years? I would say that three classes could emerge, only if teams could somehow agree to and create racing machines like the aforementioned "LMP1 Evo." Those are the cars that are basically high-class GT cars created as highly capable prototypes. More like the classic IMSA GTP cars I've loved so much. But do you think the ALMS (and maybe even in the 24 Hours of Le Mans) could be whittled down to about two or three classes of car, or can this four classes of car retain its longevity in the coming years?

in all honesty and selfishness, id love to see the gt classes dropped and the top GT teams take to the p classes. specially now that acura has proven that a factory engine in a customer chassis can work. then if you consider GT1 engines up to 7L can now be used in P1.

How about a flyin' lizard porsche rs spyder?

i wonder if ferrari would allow teams to use the 430 engine in the back on a lc series p2?

 

[TheCracker]

I can see there being all 4 classes for some time to come. The ACO certainly want both LMP1 and LMP2. The former class as a pinnacle to attract the large manufacturers, and the latter as a cheaper platform for privateers with customer chassis and engines. As long as Chevy and Aston Martin are happy to support GT1 i can't see that going either. As long as ALMS largely shadows the ACO's regulations they'll be plenty of interest in both series either side of the Atlantic. When race series start altering their regulations away from the norm so certain cars become uncompetitive, that's when manufactures decide to cut their losses and drop out altogether. With a forecast global economic slowdown predicted now's not the time to start messing around with regulations.

 

[McLaren]

in all honesty and selfishness, id love to see the gt classes dropped and the top GT teams take to the p classes. specially now that acura has proven that a factory engine in a customer chassis can work. then if you consider GT1 engines up to 7L can now be used in P1.

How about a flyin' lizard porsche rs spyder?

i wonder if ferrari would allow teams to use the 430 engine in the back on a lc series p2?

That would be an interesting thing to see, but imo, if Ferrari heard a team wanted to transplant one of their engines into a LMP, Ferrari might think of just building a new LMP instead.

 

[[empty space]]

... you mean they have racing money left over after working on their f1 pogram?

 

[MustangSVT]

... you mean they have racing money left over after working on their f1 pogram?

Yea I believe the reason the only Ferrari factory backed team is the F1 one is because they choose to spend all their money in F1.

 

[The359]

What's starting to seem a bit funny is that I've looked on this death of (or at least on life support) GT1 as being kind of like the GARRA formula. Not that the two series share any bond, just having a single class of GT cars reminds me a great deal of the Rolex Sportscar Series whereas you have two basic classes of car.

Grand Am got rid of their GT class after 2004 simply because the cars, which were equivilant to ALMS GT2, were faster or at a similar pace to their new Daytona Prototypes. The GT class was simply replaced by the former SGS class, which is about GT3 equivilant.

 

[RACECAR]

Grand Am got rid of their GT class after 2004 simply because the cars, which were equivilant to ALMS GT2, were faster or at a similar pace to their new Daytona Prototypes.

If I'm not mistaken, weren't they basically ALMS GT2 cars? THere was the Porsche 911 GT3 RS which won the Rolex 24 overall in 2003, there was the Ferrari 360 GT from Risi Competizione, and the BMW M3 GTRs from PTG. I'm okay with the GT class now since it now has Mazda Rx-8s, Pontiac GXP.Rs, Ford Mustangs, and BMW M6s instead of just just Recycled Porsche GT3 cup cars and Speed world challenge BMW M3s.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

What's starting to seem a bit funny is that I've looked on this death of (or at least on life support) GT1 as being kind of like the GARRA formula. Not that the two series share any bond, just having a single class of GT cars reminds me a great deal of the Rolex Sportscar Series whereas you have two basic classes of car. If LMP1 gets scrapped or has no hope of really being saved, we're probably just going to have one prototype class and one GT class. The thing I've missed is that there isn't too much interest in high-class GT cars. Probably not enough interest in high-class prototypes as well.

There are currently four classes of competition- P1, P2, GT1, and GT2. Do you think we may have only three or two classes in the coming years? I would say that three classes could emerge, only if teams could somehow agree to and create racing machines like the aforementioned "LMP1 Evo." Those are the cars that are basically high-class GT cars created as highly capable prototypes. More like the classic IMSA GTP cars I've loved so much. But do you think the ALMS (and maybe even in the 24 Hours of Le Mans) could be whittled down to about two or three classes of car, or can this four classes of car retain its longevity in the coming years?

LMP1 is bomming in Europe, and will be in the ALMS in the next year or two.

IMO, you will see the following, or something similar:-

LMP1 (EVO)

Audi, Peugeot, Acura, Porsche, Toyota. Aston Martin, Chevrolet. Jaguar are reportedly coming back to Le Mans, but it's unknown in what class.

Manufactuers will have to decide whether they run a current type LMP1, or an Evo LMP1 that looks a little more like a GT1 from the late 90's.

Plus large privateer teams with either manufactuer customer cars, or machines from the likes of Lola, Oreca, Pescarolo etc.

LMP2

Privateers running Porsches, Lolas and Zyteks, plus Acura if they continue selling P2 cars, but unable to compete for overall wins on pure pace.

GT

A form of GT2 with all the regulars, plus BMW, Lamborghini and possibly Acura/Honda with the NSX.

As long as Chevy and Aston Martin are happy to support GT1 i can't see that going either

They aren't, Le Mans 2008 was the last outing for the factory Aston Martin team in GT1, they will now concentrate on their P1 program and the GT2 V8 Vantage. Chevrolet are already evaluating LMP1 and GT2 cars.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

Look whats comiing to the ALMS:-

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/pruett-mazdas-march-to-the-future//P1/

http://www.mariantic.co.uk/lmp/