2009 American Le Mans Series Thread

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

-What happened to GT1 and Aston? It's a Corvette walk over every weekend. Something has to be done about this.

I don't think the Aston raced this week? At least the #3 won this time.

 

[Motominded]

I don't think the Aston raced this week? At least the #3 won this time.

A GT2 Aston was present....
24. (24) Jonny Cocker, UK; Paul Drayson, London, UK; Aston Martin DBRS 9 (11, GT2), 64.

But i'm talking about the GT1 squad which was absent. Having 1 team race itself is not a good thing for the class. If anything make a GT2 Vette or Bring back the factory Viper, S7, DBR9, and Ferrari.

GT1 is a good class but the lack of entries is destroying it. I think in the last 6 years, seeing the GT1 battles was great for the sport and they need to bring that back.

Im sure Aston has the funds to enter a car and it's time to market the 599 for Ferrari. I realize Prodrive built the past Ferrari GT1 cars but i'm sure they are capable to do it themselves. For one, 2007 was Ferrari's best ever sales year and no one in this world has an easier time finding sponsorship than Ferrari so the money aspect isn't an issue i'm sure.

 

[nissan tuner]

here's a more reader friendly version of the results

this site also shows live tracking of ALMS races and keeps the most recent results until the next race
http://www.imsaracing.net/2003/lt/ltc.html

 

[kjb]

Great win by Audi, Highcroft and taffel(sp?). What is going on with Risi? DO anyone feel like the Audis have returned to past dominant ways?

 

[Sage]

Who was that guy that Luhr was really mad at for holding him up in the pit lane?

 

[Motominded]

Who was that guy that Luhr was really mad at for holding him up in the pit lane?

Jon Field in the Intersport Lola

 

[Venom800tt]

R10 TDI Ftw!
Great race by both Champion and Penske 👍

 

[The359]

The Bell Motorsports Aston Martin DBR9 was not repaired in time for Long Beach. They should return by Utah.

De Ferran Motorsport's Acura and the Team ECO Radical Diesel will also show up for Utah.

 

[Appie]

Sorry to ask this but is the 3rd round already driven?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Long Beach was the third round.

 

[Appie]

Thnx RD👍

 

[[empty space]]

what happened to the autocon for it to finish behind both gt1 and three gt2?

and why is intersport still using the lola (without michelins?)? forgive my fan boi-ism, but, wouldnt a 07s/AER/michelins or lc75/aer/michelin be a better option?

 

[Jason~Bourne]

First of all, sorry to all, Ive never scrolled down to see the ALMS thread! I just got back from Long Beach, great race! For more alms info, check out their forums on their main site...

But i'm talking about the GT1 squad which was absent. Having 1 team race itself is not a good thing for the class. If anything make a GT2 Vette or Bring back the factory Viper, S7, DBR9, and Ferrari.

GT1 is a good class but the lack of entries is destroying it. I think in the last 6 years, seeing the GT1 battles was great for the sport and they need to bring that back.

Im sure Aston has the funds to enter a car and it's time to market the 599 for Ferrari. I realize Prodrive built the past Ferrari GT1 cars but i'm sure they are capable to do it themselves. For one, 2007 was Ferrari's best ever sales year and no one in this world has an easier time finding sponsorship than Ferrari so the money aspect isn't an issue i'm sure.

Well, theres a few things for that reason...

1- Corvette Racing (Pratt and Miller). This is one of the top racing teams in the world. They have literally scared away the competition of GT1 for the ALMS. Thats why PCM didnt stay a full season, why Prodrive stop its 550 program in the states, why Oreca stayed in the LMS, why Khron left and eventually came back to GT2. They dominate, plain and simple. For the 2006 season, the ALMS restricted the C6R so that the Astons would stay in the states. The Astons still wined, and the performance balancing continued the rest of the season until the last 2 rounds, where it was finally back to the balance of Houston.

2 - Cost of the GT1 class. Compared to the GT2 class, its easily twice as expensive to run a competative season. Privateers cant afford to run these cars, let alone at the level of the factory teams. Great attempts were by Acemco in 2005 with the Saleen S7R, 2 poles (Mosport and Laguna Seca), but had mech issues and never won. They didnt return for 2006 due to cost, and just ran at Le Mans. Konrad had enough money for 2 races in 2006. The Astons lasted in 2006, and never returned. Why waste money at this level, where your only competition is a team thats rarely beaten, when you can run in the GT2 class, where theres more competition and less expensive.

3 - Cars . Many wonder why you dont see the Viper, or Saleen, or Ferrari in the GT1 anymore. The Factory Viper program was killed in 2001 by "Dr. Z", who came close to terminating the Competition Coupe, if it wasnt for someone to use funds that werent effecting the company...which they still wont back. Ferrari doesnt want the 599 to race, they're fine with the F430. Remember what happened when the Ferrari 575 GTC came out??? A disastor...Prodrive made the DBR9, and have customers race in Europe, while they try to do F1. I dont see them taking the 599. Saleen is expected to return to the ALMS by 2010 with the new raptor, running on E85 (which in the ALMS allows for a larger fuel tank). Mercedes wont run the SLR (or the 722). BMW didnt start the M6 racing program, but is running the new M3 in 2009 (GT2). Chevrolet will most likely go to P1 by 2010.

I do miss the GT1 days. Every year since 2003, Ive gone to Laguna Seca. 2005 was the best for the class, 7 cars (2 C6Rs, 2 DBR9s, 1 S7R, 1 MC12, 1 Viper). The class has shown some great battles. Its not so much the lack of entries, its more the cost and the Vettes.

Good news, Bell Motorsports will return for Utah, so theres one Aston, and is reported to be joined by Team Modena (at least the rest of the team, theyre already half of them anyways) for 2 cars for mid-season.

what happened to the autocon for it to finish behind both gt1 and three gt2?

and why is intersport still using the lola (without michelins?)? forgive my fan boi-ism, but, wouldnt a 07s/AER/michelins or lc75/aer/michelin be a better option?

Autocon is using the Creation chassis 001, which debuted in 2005. Its the old Hybrid chassis, outdated and restricted. The car is running on Dunlops. The GT1 Vettes were only a lap behind the Audis. Street tracks are very P2 and GT2 friendly, not so much for P1 and GT1 (P1s too heavy compared to P2, and the GT2s are nearly as fast as the Vettes).

Intersport is running a Lola B07, which Dyson ran in 06. Its very good, and with Jon Field at the wheel, competative (Jon gets great starts). Theyre not running the Michelins because....Michelin wont supply them. Its a problem many priateer teams have, trying to be comptative, yet Michelin wont supply them with tires. Thats why they run on Kumhos, Dunlops, yokohama etc. The tires are very expensive, and usually not availible. Michelin supplies at least one tire tech to each team. So teams have to go to other tires, which loose about a second a lap. Another reason Intersport isnt too competative is its 3rd driver, Richard Berry. Hes a great guy, just not fast. He brings the $$$ to the team, and asks for in return is racing it it. Its the only 3 person team for every event (Jon, Clint, and Richard), and only 2 are fast. Hes the one who bought the P1 Creation in 2007, and then the new P1 lola for the end of the season.

Intersport is one of my favorite teams. I wish they were up there with Audi...but some things need to be done first...

For the rest of the season, expect 30+ cars!!!!

 

[[empty space]]

so, intersport needs to either teach their gold egg laying goose to either drive fast or convince him to be happy with the results the fast guys are getting?

i thought prodrive stopped their 550 program so they could do the DB9R program?

 

[m.piedgros]

Yes the 550 Program was replaced by the DBR9 program. However, Team Veloqx or however that's spelled was a semi-factory effort expected to run starting in '03, but the beat down the P&M Corvettes put on them was too much, they couldn't realistically compete and went home, tails between their legs. Not sure where Intersport got the Lola from - you sure it was Dyson Jason-Bourne? I've not kept track of the Dyson Lola's since they bought the RS Spyder's but I know one for a while was kicking around the race shop of an Atlantic team. Presumably then this car is one of the Dyson cars that has the B07/10 upgrade package on it?

m.piedgros

 

[The359]

Yes the 550 Program was replaced by the DBR9 program. However, Team Veloqx or however that's spelled was a semi-factory effort expected to run starting in '03, but the beat down the P&M Corvettes put on them was too much, they couldn't realistically compete and went home, tails between their legs.

Veloqx is a sponsor, the team was Prodrive. Beat down by P&M Corvettes? Really? In 2003, Prodrive Ferraris won 4 races to Corvette's 5, yet only lost the GTS championship by 4 points, 167 to 163. Hardly what I call a "beat down". Especially since in 2003 Prodrive also beat the P&M Corvettes at Le Mans.

2004 was a down year for Prodrive as the Ferrari program was ending (not running with their tails between their legs). Prodrive only ran a team at Le Mans, while their customer cars dominated the new Le Mans Series as well as the FIA GT Championship.

Not sure where Intersport got the Lola from - you sure it was Dyson Jason-Bourne? I've not kept track of the Dyson Lola's since they bought the RS Spyder's but I know one for a while was kicking around the race shop of an Atlantic team. Presumably then this car is one of the Dyson cars that has the B07/10 upgrade package on it?

m.piedgros

Intersport's Lola B06/10 is one of the two Dyson Lola B06/10s from 2006. Velocity Motorsport purchased it in 2007 with plans to enter ALMS, but chose to go elsewhere, so Intersport purchased it at the end of 2007 to replace their failing Creation CA06/H. The car is still a B06/10, the upgrades are merely aerodynamic tweaks.

The other Dyson Lola B06/10 is in the hands of Team Cytosport, who ran a partial schedule in the ALMS, and plans to eventually return this year as well.

 

[The359]

1- Corvette Racing (Pratt and Miller). This is one of the top racing teams in the world. They have literally scared away the competition of GT1 for the ALMS.

More correctly, the cost to compete with Corvette is what keeps most away. Competing in the FIA GT Championship or LMS is less expensive.

Thats why PCM didnt stay a full season, why Prodrive stop its 550 program in the states, why Oreca stayed in the LMS, why Khron left and eventually came back to GT2.

PCM left because they thought their customer C5-R was going to get paid support from Pratt & Miller, and their Yokohama tires were not up to the task.

Prodrive left because the 550 program was at its end.

Oreca stayed in LMS because...well, why not? European team, why not compete in the European series? Don't forget Oreca was also busy running FFSA GT with their Saleens, would be more difficult to transport between France and the States, or even to buy extra Saleens to compete in both series.

Krohn-Barbour left because Lamborghini didn't provide enough support for the new cars, and there was serious problems with the design of the Murcielago at the time. However, Krohn just dishes out the money, Barbour was actually running that team. Krohn returned to GT2 because he found a team that he could throw money at (Risi Competizione).

They dominate, plain and simple. For the 2006 season, the ALMS restricted the C6R so that the Astons would stay in the states. The Astons still wined, and the performance balancing continued the rest of the season until the last 2 rounds, where it was finally back to the balance of Houston.

Technically they both whined since the balancing went back and forth.

2 - Cost of the GT1 class. Compared to the GT2 class, its easily twice as expensive to run a competative season. Privateers cant afford to run these cars, let alone at the level of the factory teams. Great attempts were by Acemco in 2005 with the Saleen S7R, 2 poles (Mosport and Laguna Seca), but had mech issues and never won. They didnt return for 2006 due to cost, and just ran at Le Mans. Konrad had enough money for 2 races in 2006. The Astons lasted in 2006, and never returned. Why waste money at this level, where your only competition is a team thats rarely beaten, when you can run in the GT2 class, where theres more competition and less expensive.

Doesn't stop people, both in the ALMS and LMS, from running in LMP1 instead of LMP2...

3 - Cars . Many wonder why you dont see the Viper, or Saleen, or Ferrari in the GT1 anymore. The Factory Viper program was killed in 2001 by "Dr. Z", who came close to terminating the Competition Coupe, if it wasnt for someone to use funds that werent effecting the company...which they still wont back.[/quote]

The Viper program ended because it had begun in 1995. It was hardly killed before it's time, it was killed because Chrysler wanted to concentrate on customer cars, which were still successful in Europe. The Competition Coupe, technically, doesn't meet GT1 or GT2 regulations, so it's hardly the same program. Chrysler was planning support for converting Viper Competition Coupes to GT2 spec for the ALMS, but the Chrysler buyout by Cerebus cancelled that.

Ferrari doesnt want the 599 to race, they're fine with the F430. Remember what happened when the Ferrari 575 GTC came out??? A disastor...

Disaster? Maybe they weren't up to snuff with some of the Prodrive 550s, but they were hardly bad. The Barron Connor 575-GTCs never went anywhere, but G.P.C. Sport and JMB Racing had no problem winning in FIA GT with them. Ferrari simply lacked the support for them that Prodrive offered.

Prodrive made the DBR9, and have customers race in Europe, while they try to do F1. I dont see them taking the 599.

Why would they?

Saleen is expected to return to the ALMS by 2010 with the new raptor, running on E85 (which in the ALMS allows for a larger fuel tank). Mercedes wont run the SLR (or the 722). BMW didnt start the M6 racing program, but is running the new M3 in 2009 (GT2). Chevrolet will most likely go to P1 by 2010.

Saleen is a maybe, Mercedes-Benz is already involved in F1 and DTM, BMW has always run GT2, so no clue why they'd move to GT1. They are however using the 6-Series in GT3.

Good news, Bell Motorsports will return for Utah, so theres one Aston, and is reported to be joined by Team Modena (at least the rest of the team, theyre already half of them anyways) for 2 cars for mid-season.

Modena is sure as hell not coming to the ALMS except maybe Petit, they're busy trying to win the LMS championship.

Theyre not running the Michelins because....Michelin wont supply them. Its a problem many priateer teams have, trying to be comptative, yet Michelin wont supply them with tires. Thats why they run on Kumhos, Dunlops, yokohama etc. The tires are very expensive, and usually not availible. Michelin supplies at least one tire tech to each team. So teams have to go to other tires, which loose about a second a lap.

It's more that Michelin wont supplier tires to them for free. Michelin only selects certain "official" teams to receive their tires as sponsorship, while the rest have to pay if they want them. Also, the teams that pay for them, usually do not get the same specification of tires as the "official" teams, and they're usually designed specifically for the official teams, and can be difficult for someone in a different car. Hence teams run the risk of running a different manufacturer for cheaper, but with the potential that they could be horrible tires (See: Hankook).

 

[m.piedgros]

What made Corvette switch to Michelin?

m.piedgros

 

[The359]

Goodyear's sports car efforts were diminishing over the past few years (Corvette was the only real good squad I can think of who ran Goodyear), and the Michelins were just becoming superior, so Corvette switched in 2004. No one's run Goodyears since the end of 2006.

 

[GTveteran]

I don't think the Aston raced this week? At least the #3 won this time.

Told you guys.

What made Corvette switch to Michelin?

The Ferrari 550's performance at Le Mans and the impending threat of the Astons. P&M tested Michelins after that and decided that they would be better than the Goodyears.

 

[JohnBM01]

I heard the ALMS will race the outer course at Miller Motorsports Park. The ALMS probably figured the track was too long to where there'd be engine troubles and stuff. This track is competitive no matter if it's the Grand Prix course or the outer course. How do you see this race playing out this weekend?

 

[kjb]

I think this track favors the Audis and I think Porsches will run GT 2.

 

[The359]

I heard the ALMS will race the outer course at Miller Motorsports Park. The ALMS probably figured the track was too long to where there'd be engine troubles and stuff. This track is competitive no matter if it's the Grand Prix course or the outer course. How do you see this race playing out this weekend?

....

Why would there be engine troubles because the track is longer? They have no problem running these engines for 12 hours, I think they can handle 2 hours and 45 Minutes at Miller.

They changed to the outside course because drivers did not like the multitude of turns on the full course, and the lack of passing opportunities. The faster, full course also offers a better test in preparation for Le Mans.

 

[JohnBM01]

Here was something I was thinking about. Would you all be interested if there was a class of racing devoted mostly to mid-level sports cars competiting along with the regular competitors? So what would qualify as mid-level cars? I'm thinking cars like the Nissan 350Z, Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, Mercedes-Benz SLK series, Honda S2000, Lotus Elise, Lexis IS-F, Mazda MX-5, and the Renault Renaultsport Clio (just to add some diversity), in a series like the ALMS? Or do you think such a mini series should be relegated to something like the Koni Challenge Series in (the other series)?

Know why Pontiac can consistently brag about beating BMWs and Porsches and Mazdas? It's because they have their GXP.R and Pontiac-powered machinery competing on a stage that suits them. While the GXP.R is quite a sleeper (even being incredibly ugly) with its high horsepower and RWD, it can still compete on the track against the rougher competition. I'm also imagining a series like this to give sporty cars a chance to shine in a major series. Seeing that Pontiac Solstice Weekend Club Racer concept car kind of made me think about this. Sportscar racing has always been seen as being a motorsport for the truly exclusive. It's tough to follow. It's not usually for everyone. But when you become a fan, you LOVE it. I've imagined what it would be like if these cars (let's give it the hypothetical class name of GT3) were to compete along with the GT2 cars? They'd be in their own class and stand almost no shot of winning over a current GT2 car. However, it would give other car companies who make sporty cars a chance to show off their stuff.

I know in the past that Lexus had plans to enter the ALMS way back when. Trouble was, they never got to really compete. I'd be more than welcome to welcome a class of sporty everyday automobiles that can compete on the track along with the GT and prototype crowds. Question is, would you be interested in seeing this in the ALMS? And do you think the ALMS would allow such a class of racing to materialize?

 

[[empty space]]

sounds like one of the speed series?

 

[GTveteran]

They could do an American GT3 and GT4 class series to support the ALMS.

 

[[empty space]]

doesnt the speed GT and touring classes already support the alms?

 

[CAMikaze]

There already is a GT3 series in the US called the IMSA Challenge by Michelin, and they ran the 2nd of seven rounds scheduled for this year at Miller Motorsports Park in Utah over the weekend.

You can find out more about the IMSA Challenge series by clicking here.

 

[JohnBM01]

Well yeah, but I'm talking about cars like the ones I mentioned earlier competing on the same track as the same time. Reason why I didn't mention the IMSA Challenge is because it's mostly Porsches. I guess you could say that this hypothetical series featuring mid-level sports would called American GT3 or American GT4. A series like this racing along with the other big dogs in the ALMS has kind of been my vision. Just be curious if there will be either customer teams or even factory teams making these mid-level sports cars to compete in the same series on the same track at the same time against the other competition.

On the other hand, I do imagine this being an ALMS version of Koni Challenge. Maybe because some cars are so sporty, I tend to imagine a series or class of car to have a high-powered full race car. I know you can get the Pontiac Solstice with that ZOK package for racing or even the Mazda MX-5 with that MX-5 Cup package. However, would the ALMS get into such a deal where teams of amateur and low-level teams join the ALMS tour to race everyday sports cars and sporty machines? Maybe I just want to see a Pontiac Solstice (or Saturn Sky) GT race car to compete on the same track with the other classes.

Any other ideas?

 

[GTveteran]

I'm pretty sure any of those cars could be made into GT4 class cars. Some of the ones you mentioned earlier already are. If not then there may have to be a GT5 class made.