2009 American Le Mans Series Thread

[Mulsanne]

Supposedly, no. AGR will drop their ALMS program to concentrate on their four IRL cars and fielding Marco in A1GP. At least, that's what everyone has been reporting over the last few months.

However, Murphy the Bear has been reporting on his blog that there's a fourth Acura that's probable for Sebring and questionable for the rest of the ALMS season. He doesn't say who the team is that might be fielding it, or even if it's LMP1 or LMP2. He's also said that the financial crisis going on right now may change Acura's whole program. So, who knows?

 

[RACECAR]

You have to wonder what will happen with P1. With Audi out of the picture and Peugeot possibly making a few apperances, P1 may grow alot. Same could go with GT1 seeing as Corvette is now going GT2.

And Mulsanne, long time no see

 

[Mulsanne]

Yeah, just as Audi finally gets some competition in P1, they leave. What were they saying at the ALMS awards a few years ago, challenging Acura and Porsche to step up and compete with them? Mulsanne's Corner (nothing to do with me) has some interesting comments about Audi (and pictures of the new Acura P1) on his site.

P1, by my count, is the Highcroft Acura, the de Ferran Acura, Corsa's Ginetta-Zytek hybrid (a very interesting program), AutoCon's Lola and Intersport's one or two Lolas (although there has been some questions recently about whether or not Intersport will answer the bell). Plus, Primetime is rumored to be looking at a Zytek and Creation has kept one of their cars in the States. It looks like an Acura walkover this year, especially with no Audis or Penske Porsches.

As far as GT1, once Corvette leaves, I hope that's the end. GT2 is going to be the one to watch, especially once Corvette joins at Mid-Ohio. (Hopefully, GM will still be around to fund the effort.)

All I know is, I'm getting my butt to Sebring in March. Two new Audis, two new P1 Acuras, hopefully two Peugeots, two Dyson Lola-Mazda coupes, plus all the other ALMS cars. I just hope some of the European LMS entries find the funds to cross the pond, though I'm not holding my breath on that one. Even so, it's going to be awesome.

It's good to be back. I started playing GT4 again (I'm not springing for a PS3 until the full GT5 comes out) and got the bug to start posting (and hosting an endurance race) again.

 

[RACECAR]

Yeah, just as Audi finally gets some competition in P1, they leave. What were they saying at the ALMS awards a few years ago, challenging Acura and Porsche to step up and compete with them? Mulsanne's Corner (nothing to do with me) has some interesting comments about Audi (and pictures of the new Acura P1) on his site.

I think the decision to quit came from the Audi AG board themselves and they say its because the the economic crisis. I found it interesting they are Gonna run thier last car for two races, Sebring and the big one,m Le mans. Peugeot better be prepared this time, they've made very questionable mistakes that have cost them dearly.

P1, by my count, is the Highcroft Acura, the de Ferran Acura, Corsa's Ginetta-Zytek hybrid (a very interesting program), AutoCon's Lola and Intersport's one or two Lolas (although there has been some questions recently about whether or not Intersport will answer the bell). Plus, Primetime is rumored to be looking at a Zytek and Creation has kept one of their cars in the States. It looks like an Acura walkover this year, especially with no Audis or Penske Porsches.

I wouldn't give it to Acura just yet. They may get lucky in one race, but I don't expect them to pull off an Audi Juggernaut so soon, especially since there is the Hybrid Ginetta Zytek and essentially its version of the Push-to-pass by way of the KERS system.

As far as GT1, once Corvette leaves, I hope that's the end. GT2 is going to be the one to watch, especially once Corvette joins at Mid-Ohio. (Hopefully, GM will still be around to fund the effort.)

The end of what, GT1? I want to see some entrants for GT1. Maybe the Bell Motorsports Aston Martin will contend full time now that the Vettes won't be around all season long to leave them in the dust along with maybe some european entries(though that seems kinda bleak right now).

All I know is, I'm getting my butt to Sebring in March. Two new Audis, two new P1 Acuras, hopefully two Peugeots, two Dyson Lola-Mazda coupes, plus all the other ALMS cars. I just hope some of the European LMS entries find the funds to cross the pond, though I'm not holding my breath on that one. Even so, it's going to be awesome.

Can't wait for the 2009 season to begin.

It's good to be back. I started playing GT4 again (I'm not springing for a PS3 until the full GT5 comes out) and got the bug to start posting (and hosting an endurance race) again.

Great to have you back. I've been doing an otherwise okay job with running the GTPLMS. I plan on running a series based on the LMES using Race Driver GRID with five rounds(possibly six) just like the real thing.

 

[Mulsanne]

Audi: I don't get it. They're building a brand new car to compete in just two races in 2009? Like Mulsanne's Corner says, building and testing a new car is approx. 85% of a racing budget, with the actual racing taking up about 15%. If Audi are so concerned with saving money, why even build a new car in the first place? Trust me, I'm not complaining. It's good they're building a new car and I can't wait to see it at Sebring. Just seems their logic is a bit flawed.

P1: I certainly hope the Ginetta-Zytek (as well as the other P1 cars) will be able to put up a fight. However, judging by the last few years, it's not likely to happen.

GT1: Yes, the end of GT1. As much as I love the Corvettes, GT1 is too expensive and too far removed from their road-going counterparts. They've basically become GT Prototypes. Le Mans was started as a way to compare road-going sports and touring cars, but the ACO have let the regulations get out of hand. GT2 is where it's at and once Corvette joins, it will be even better.

I've gone back and read some of the GTPLMS threads. Looks like a very interesting series. I wish I had come back earlier to compete. The few races that the ESES lasted back in '06 were a lot of fun. Hopefully, we'll get a few guys in for the Group C Le Mans race next month.

 

[FoolKiller]

Audi: I don't get it. They're building a brand new car to compete in just two races in 2009? Like Mulsanne's Corner says, building and testing a new car is approx. 85% of a racing budget, with the actual racing taking up about 15%. If Audi are so concerned with saving money, why even build a new car in the first place? Trust me, I'm not complaining. It's good they're building a new car and I can't wait to see it at Sebring. Just seems their logic is a bit flawed.

This does make sense to me, somewhat.

Audi is one of the few companies that truly does move their racing tech into their cars. An average observer can see it. It is something that is almost never seen in other types of racing, and you really have to work to find it for other sports car teams. Audi begins their TDI racing program with great efficiency and barely and emissions, and suddenly you see it in their cars. Same for their braking systems, transmissions, etc.

For Audi building a race car is partly about the sport, but also about research. They can test it just as much without being in a race, and make changes that would normally not be allowed within certain racing guidelines.

So, from an engineering perspective this is how they do it. Is it expensive? Yep. Is it the coolest way to research new automotive tech? You bet. And who knows, perhaps they intend to come back in a year. I mean, the first year they ran the R10 it only made a couple of showings, so this year will be no different in that regard, just that they won't be running their older car during the testing phase.

I wish they would stay, just because I love watching McNish drive, but with any luck he will be racing in something that they will actually televise in the US.

 

[RACECAR]

This does make sense to me, somewhat.

Audi is one of the few companies that truly does move their racing tech into their cars. An average observer can see it. It is something that is almost never seen in other types of racing, and you really have to work to find it for other sports car teams. Audi begins their TDI racing program with great efficiency and barely and emissions, and suddenly you see it in their cars. Same for their braking systems, transmissions, etc.

They seem for the most part the company that does most of that.

I wish they would stay, just because I love watching McNish drive, but with any luck he will be racing in something that they will actually televise in the US.

You do relize they'll still race at sebring, right? That along with the 24 Hours of Le Mans is always aired here in the US

 

[FoolKiller]

You do relize they'll still race at sebring, right? That along with the 24 Hours of Le Mans is always aired here in the US

OK, two races, only aired on a premium package channel at that, is not what I meant.

And let's not forget said premium package channel aslo likes to cut out a few hours to show NASCAR testing. TESTING!!!!!

 

[RACECAR]

OK, two races, only aired on a premium package channel at that, is not what I meant.


And let's not forget said premium package channel aslo likes to cut out a few hours to show NASCAR testing. TESTING!!!!!

Well, you said:

but with any luck he will be racing in something that they will actually televise in the US.

And I answered I know they tend to do that(now would be a great time to send Fox a Fat Albert), which is why I use radiolemans coverage and ironically enough, Speedtv.com(before it screws up that is). If your lucky enough, he might race in the Rolex 24.

Wonder if its possible for NBC to buy out Speed as they seem more accomidating for different kinds of racing while Fox is basically NASCAR's Female dog.

 

[Mulsanne]

Just reflecting on the whole Audi situation, perhaps I'm being a little harsh on them. Plenty of manufacturers have built cars with the sole purpose of winning Le Mans and not entering any other races before Le Mans: Toyota (TS020), Nissan (R390), Mercedes-Benz (CLR), etc. (And look at how those cars fared at Le Mans.)

What I mean to say is we all knew their involvement in the ALMS wouldn't last forever, but it's still a shock that it's over now.

At least they will be at Sebring. Remember, over the last 10 years, every car that won Le Mans participated (and with the exception of the Bentley, won) at Sebring the same year. (And only one team that won LM in that same period didn't compete at Sebring: Team Goh in 2004.) I believe if a few of the privateer prototype efforts (Pescarolo, ORECA-Courage, Creation, etc.) came to Sebring first, beat the hell out of their cars and fixed what broke, they would be a lot better off come June. (Pescarolo's problems at LM in 2005 when they had the fastest car but lost because of unreliability comes to mind.) Now where those privateers find the money to fund such a venture...

As far as the TV, I think the ALMS should approach one of the networks to cover the first hour of Sebring on network TV. I know it would have to be a time-buy, but at 10 or 11 on a Saturday morning, it can't be that much (relative to the Sunday afternoon slots they buy for some races). NASCAR's purchased time on Fox to show the first hour of the Rolex 24.

 

[[empty space]]

Just reflecting on the whole Audi situation, perhaps I'm being a little harsh on them. Plenty of manufacturers have built cars with the sole purpose of winning Le Mans and not entering any other races before Le Mans: Toyota (TS020), Nissan (R390), Mercedes-Benz (CLR), etc. (And look at how those cars fared at Le Mans.)

and thats what i hate about manufacters. They spend all of that money on a machine that only see one race or two races? the series/championship is more important than a single event regardless of the event.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

and thats what i hate about manufacters. They spend all of that money on a machine that only see one race or two races? the series/championship is more important than a single event regardless of the event.

Not to them it isn´t. A Le Mans win gives them far more attention than any other championship, possibly exculding a championship win in F1, so I can understand perfectly well why they do such things.
But at the same time, one would think that they would learn from the past, that there isn´t much chance of winning at Le Mans without actual racing beforehand.
They can test all they want, but there is no substitute for real racing against other cars. Audi knows this, and has already hinted that they will struggle at Le Mans.

 

[Tornado]

Plenty of manufacturers have built cars with the sole purpose of winning Le Mans and not entering any other races before Le Mans: Toyota (TS020), Nissan (R390), Mercedes-Benz (CLR), etc. (And look at how those cars fared at Le Mans.)

Second place, third place, whee!

 

[Mt. Lynx]

 

[Mulsanne]

Toronado:

But look at the first race with each of those cars. The CLR, we already know about. The Nissan R390's debut in 1997 had numerous problems with the gearbox and put all three cars out early. The Toyota's debut in '98 was similarly plagued with gearbox issues. There is no substitute for actual racing miles.

As far as Le Mans vs. a championship, I think this about sums it up. It's from Charles Dressing's (of Radio Le Mans) report from the 1989 Le Mans 24 Hours:

"Championships are all but meaningless against the established social and commercial realities of Le Mans. Cars have been created solely to win Le Mans. Anything else is a bonus. There is always the clinging notion that a calendar of world championship races is merely a corporate convenience assembled expressly to rationalize or even amortize across an annual calendar the expense of winning Le Mans; to soothe the fiscally tormented corporate counters, who must explain where the millions went, and why. Smearing the expense across a championship calendar is easier for the executive mind to grasp than one huge, orgasmic financial lunge in the middle of June."

Mt. Lynx is right. A win at Le Mans is far more important to the manufacturers than a LMS or ALMS championship. The only thing I can chalk that up to (apart from the history of Le Mans) is the fact that sports car racing has been so unstable and inconsistant over its history. The one and only thing that has remained consistent is Le Mans.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Interesting read
What is the "another" GT2 manufacturer spoken of? Spyker coming to ALMS after Le Mans?

 

[RACECAR]

BMW picks Mueller to drive in GT2
This'll be interesting. they've two of their original factory drivers which could be very benificial to RHR.



Speaking of the BMW M3, what do you guys think of it?

My only nitpick is how weird the Wing Pylons look but other then that, its a looker to me.

Also, here is the first images of the Acura ARX-02a:

 

[JohnBM01]

I'm proud that BMW didn't mess up the M3 too much to where it's a terrible looking machine. I still consider the BMW M3 GTR between about 1999 to maybe 2001 as the loveliest of modern BMW GT cars. Looks very cool. No matter how it looks on the outside, it's still a BMW under the metal. So expect this car to have some sweet handling and great performance. Probably because of nostalgia, I'd still want to see a white/black/orange Prototype Technology Group BMW like from 10 years ago.

[UPDATE] The Acura ARX-02a looks awesome. It's going to be a real competitor in the ALMS and maybe for Le Mans should Acura get an invite to Le Mans.

 

[[empty space]]

with no audi in alms, itll walk the field. while its not quite the audi juggernaut, acura knows what theyre doing.

 

[Mulsanne]

BMW: What's up with the big gaping hole in the nose? Looks like someone forgot to put an extra body panel on there.

No idea who the new ALMS GT2 manufacturer may be, but it's great news if it comes true.

As far as Acura, it's not whether they get the invite to Le Mans (you know the ACO would love to have them there), but whether they have the will or budget to go. They've said numerous times they will not go to Le Mans until they are certain they have a chance to win. Hopefully, if not this year, then 2010?

The car certainly looks the part and I can't wait to see how it fares against the Audis and Peugeots at Sebring. Maybe if they do well, they might consider a Le Mans effort? (fingers crossed)

 

[Crashbroke23]

With the new manufactures in GT2 next season, I would assume that there would be 20 cars in that class alone. But, I don't know if it will be Spyker.

Remember we saw those charts a while back that showed Nissan at the very bottom. So, for the safe decisions, sure go for Spyker, but if your felling ambitious go for Nissan.


UPDATE: That Acura looks like it can do the job, lets hope it can be reliable.

 

[CAMikaze]

Pics of the GT-R GT1

You folks think we'll be seeing this car at Le Mans in 2009 and a few other LMES and ALMS races as well?

 

[Crashbroke23]

ZOMG this is amazing news!! I can't wait for this and the Koenigsegg CCGT to race in GT1!!
I should add this to the Asian Le Mans Series Thread list of teams...

 

[Mt. Lynx]

The Nissan is slated for FIA GT only at this point, and will only do a couple of testraces in ´09. No word on Le Mans, or ALMS.

The K´segg is dead, but there is a Ford GT1 in the water! Also for FIA GT though...

 

[JohnBM01]

Even just to see a privateer run a Nissan GT-R in the ALMS would be cool. Remember the kind of buzz generated when an R34 Skyline raced in Speed World Challenge - GT a few years ago (and all the subsequent hate some people gave it)? If you're trying to promote a hot car, one of the best ways is in racing. Nissan does have a great deal of sportscar racing history. Think of the good old IMSA days when Nissans were going up against Jaguars and Porsches and Chevrolet Spices. I'd be fully interested to see a Nissan GT race car in the ALMS or perhaps Le Mans as well (Skylines/GT-R's have competed at Le Mans before, just not very good results).

 

[[empty space]]

interesting. how exactly are they planning on running it with a v8 when it only comes with a tt v6?

 

[Mt. Lynx]

A part of the new 2010 rules had a suggestion about engineswaps. If they think they have a more competitive production engine in their lineup, they can use it. I think this is a block form a Nissan Titan or something similar. Remember, the engines are highly modified for the racecar anyway.
There is also a rumour going round about a homologation special, only 300 to be made. Just a rumour though.

 

[[empty space]]

heh. kind of reminds me of the v8 m3 that raced in the alms in early 2000s. i must admit though, id be far more interested if they raced the tt v6 instead.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Same here. To even make this car slightly interesting, they´d at least have to make a homologation special, wich is rumoured to come.

 

[CAMikaze]

A GT-R.LM perhaps?