2009 Chinese Grand Prix – Can anyone stop Brawn?

  • Thread starter Blake
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Any complex system is only as strong as it's weakest link. The danger isn't something directly hitting the helmet - it's hitting the helmet and causing damage to the neck and spine.

And I meant the "wouldn't be with us" more in a sense of "wouldn't be racing". It could've crippled him..
 
Any complex system is only as strong as it's weakest link. The danger isn't something directly hitting the helmet - it's hitting the helmet and causing damage to the neck and spine.

That's where the HANS Device comes into play. It's deliberately designed to prevent injuries like that. Had they had them during Senna's time, he probably would still be with us.

Or if not him then Ratzenberger. :D
 
I thought HANS devices are supposed to protect against whiplash? I can't see it protecting a wheel dropping from above - it would still compress the spine..
 
Senna didn't die becasue he was hit by a wheel. He died because a suspension component was still attached to the wheel and it pierced his helmet...



Amongst possibly hitting his head on the wall and again on the back of the seat rather hard.
 
With the mention of Senna's incident, I wonder if the resident conspiracy theorists are familiar with the one about Williams somehow being responsible for the crash. There have been some rather idiotic theories of recent times but that one took the biscuit, it goes against all logic.
 
I'm so 🤬 pissed right now. Ferrari sucks now, their reliability is getting really annoying now. Massa was in the points and had an electrical failure, Raikkonen had engine problems, 3 races still with 0 points and a DNF for each so far.
 
Massa was only in the points position because he hadn't pitted yet.

Ferrari have always been able to do thousands of test laps more than other teams every year and to throw as much money as necessary to test all new parts for the car to ensure they stay on top.

Now they are finding out what it is like to be a normal team and they are struggling to be competitive which is to be expected since they have very little experience of it.
 
Ah, Ferrari are going back to the days when I actually liked them, they are becoming more and more "Italian". All they need to do is hire some likable and hard-charging drivers like Alesi, Capelli, Berger, Mansell, etc and revert back to Italy Red instead of Marlboro Red and the transformation will be complete.
The constant sackings of staff and the unreliable and unpredictable results gave them real character 20 years ago, I am very glad indeed to see this creeping back.
 
Yes, that was when I liked them as well. I lost interest when Todt and Schumacher turned up. The team lost its magic at that point.
 
I agree, the Helmets are probably more than strong enough to withstand the impact of the wheel. Michael Schumacher's Helmet survived intact after being ran over by a Tank.

Not to mention that the cockpit sides are much higher now than they were in 1994. Back then, viewing from the side, you can see the tops of Ayrton's shoulders, let alone the top of his helmet such as in the photo of Button in the Brawn:

williams_ayrton_94.jpg

butt_braw_melb_20091.jpg


Anyway, I'm not disputing that Kimi might have been injured otherwise or the effectiveness of wheel tethers in that particular accident, as "ifs" and "buts" are always difficult to analyse.
 
Is it just me or does the rear bodywork/engine cover of the RedBull car attached to the spoiler? I don't ever remember the car looking like that until this weekend's GP? Anyone got close up pictures?
 
Ah, Ferrari are going back to the days when I actually liked them, they are becoming more and more "Italian". All they need to do is hire some likable and hard-charging drivers like Alesi, Capelli, Berger, Mansell, etc and revert back to Italy Red instead of Marlboro Red and the transformation will be complete.
The constant sackings of staff and the unreliable and unpredictable results gave them real character 20 years ago, I am very glad indeed to see this creeping back.
Damn Schumacher bringing German engineering logic!
 
This race was boring. Then after I watched the IRL's Long Beach race... YAWN. Hopefully no rain for next weekend.

This just in - Luca Badoer and Marc Gene to replace Raikkonen and Massa at Bahrain this weekend..

It's a joke unless a link is provided.
 
This just in - Luca Badoer and Marc Gene to replace Raikkonen and Massa at Bahrain this weekend..
It could be a funny joke if Massa had a bad race. Not one where he was driving nearly at the pace of the leaders with more fuel on board, made no mistakes in horrible conditions, and was demolishing the lighter Raikkonen. He looked like one of the best wet weather drivers out there and had a very good shot at 4th if he hadnt had his car fail on him. That was one of his best drives, by far his best in wet conditions.

He was good in Malaysia in the wet too and would have been in the points had his team not had him pit for inters on one lap and back to full-wets the next.
 
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Nothing on the "Official F1" site.

As if it was the drivers fault, the cars aren't fast enough anyway.
Seemed like an electrical fault with Massa's car and Kimi was driving to the limits of the car and conditions..... it seems.
 
I agree, the Helmets are probably more than strong enough to withstand the impact of the wheel. Michael Schumacher's Helmet survived intact after being ran over by a Tank.

Piercing =/= compression. A bulletproof vest will stop a blunt bullet, but won't stop a stab wound. Senna's accident was a completely frea occurence, though, and probably might never be replicated in F1.

I've seen helmets, even in the 90's, hit with some amazing things... I remember one American race where the top of the driver's helmet had to put up with about 500 kilos of race car sliding over the top of it and sitting there... for the ten to fifteen minutes it took to hoist the thing off of him. Driver was okay, but understandably pissed.

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Awesome, awesome race. Drama, tension, excitement... wonderful!

I imagine that BMW will be feeling pretty silly arguing the whole diffuser case when a single-diffuser car came in in pole in the dry and won the thing in the wet, at a pace that was convincingly better than the double-diffuser car.

Tough luck for them, all race.

I was sad to see Sutil go out... what a wonderful race for the man! To be caught out by the conditions at the last second!

Wonderful races, too, for Glock and Kovalainen. It's not often you see Hekki outperforming Lewis... and in the rain. His team-mate had a weird race... he was definitely showing his skills in the rain... driving much, much faster than most... but for once, he wasn't in total control of that car... overdriving it (which he admits to...) at least he still got 6th (though, to be fair, almost all the front runners had offs). I'm impressed by Hekki's poise and consistency... and Massa's. From wet-weather zero to wet-weather hero... too bad his car gave up on him. Kimi was visibly struggling with his car... Apparently, the misfire as noted by some commentators was being caused by the spray kicked up by other cars... I don't think it's electrical... maybe the Ferrari intake is too susceptible to water ingestion? The Scuderia Torro Rosso cars seemed to have no problems at all!

Glock and Sutil were the suprises of the day... Sutil overtaking Hamilton was hilarious! Glock's drive from the pits up into the points was also noteworthy.

As compared to Jarno Trulli's drive. The words "Trulli-train"{ were going through my head over and over again as I watched the race... until Kubica put his car out of its misery.

Who said this race was boring? The dicing between Button, Webber and Vettel was fantastic stuff. And they seemed to think so, too... Jenson Button didn't look the least bit miffed at being third on the podium. And, I have to confess... seeing Vettel's germanic mug on the top step gave me deja vu... he looks vaguely like a young Herr Schumacher. I really like this guy.

With the Red Bull competitive, even without the diffuser (yet), and Scuderia Torro Rosso being one of the quickest (in terms of straightline speed) cars on the track (oh, Buemi's 8th was also a nice result), could we be seeing a whole lot of Bull in the points from this point forward? :D
 
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Sebastian Vettel
Little Britain and Monty Python fan Vettel also revealed at the weekend that he gives his cars female names and personalities, reasoning that 'it's important to have a close relationship with a car' – before quipping to BBC F1 commentator and former RBR ace David Coulthard: “Anyway, you are the man when it comes to women...”

“Like a ship, a car should be named after a girl as it's sexy,” he contended. “My original car was called Kate, but then it got smashed in the opening race in Australia. We called this one Kate's Dirty Sister, because it is more aggressive and faster.”

Epic win.
 
Is it just me or does the rear bodywork/engine cover of the RedBull car attached to the spoiler? I don't ever remember the car looking like that until this weekend's GP? Anyone got close up pictures?

They've introduced that in the late stages of winter-testing - just like last year with the original sharkfin, which didn't attach. F1 pundits always expected them to lead it into the wing, so the only surprise is that it took them this long.

Glock and Sutil were the suprises of the day... Sutil overtaking Hamilton was hilarious! Glock's drive from the pits up into the points was also noteworthy.

As compared to Jarno Trulli's drive. The words "Trulli-train"{ were going through my head over and over again as I watched the race... until Kubica put his car out of its misery.

Glock started from the pitlane since he changed his setup and car - for a more rain-adapted setup. Everyone else raced their qualifying car, which was set for the dry - and with the higher-downforce wings and a softer setup, Glock had a massive advantage compared to anyone else, allowing him to set Webber-equaling laptimes.

Epic win.

Vettel, please quit after your seventh championship and replace those awful comedians we have nowadays.
 
It was frustrating for me for Alonso to not get into the points as he is not a bad wet weather driver by any means. But his race was compromised from the start due to the low fuel. I think he would've been better off not pitting in at the start. He might have had a go at 1st place and could've pulled off some fast times in the free air. But instead he was fueled heavy and stuck in last place.
 
It was frustrating for me for Alonso to not get into the points as he is not a bad wet weather driver by any means. But his race was compromised from the start due to the low fuel. I think he would've been better off not pitting in at the start. He might have had a go at 1st place and could've pulled off some fast times in the free air. But instead he was fueled heavy and stuck in last place.

Indeed. By my calculations, assuming he kept up within 5 second of Vettel (reasonable assumption, since he had 20kg less fuel) by lap 12 (he had fuel for 10, but with 5 SC laps, it stretched everyone's tanks by two laps) he could've been far enough ahead to come out 5th, or 6th at worst - instead of 14th like he was at the time.
 
So much for the wheel tethers at Sutil's accident. Didn't even seem that much of an impact and both front wheels were off and bouncing.

I can't find any pics or video of it but it looked like the tethers and their attachment points went with the wheel, which could be even more dangerous.

I was really hoping he could hold it together and get some points.
 
Kubica launched off of Trulli for the 2nd time, this race. Were there anymore incidents where he hit him in the back?
 
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