2009 Italian Grand Prix

[Peter]

After a month wait for Spa, the 2 week wait for Monza didn't seem like much, so now it's time for the 2009 Italian Grand Prix


Formula 1 Gran Premio Santander D'Italia 2009
@ Monza

Rubens Barrichello's pole position lap of 2004 aka fastest lap ever done at Monza

[YOUTUBEHD]6l_uhy8NEWc[/YOUTUBEHD]

2008 Results
1st: Sebastian Vettel
2nd: Heikki Kovalainen
3rd: Robert Kubica​

Current Standings
1st. Jenson Button(Brawn-Mercedes)- 72
2nd. Rubens Barrichello(Brawn-Mercedes)- 56
3rd. Sebastian Vettel(RBR-Renault)- 53
4th. Mark Webber(RBR-Renault)- 51.5
5th. Kimi Raikkonen(Scuderia Ferrari)- 34
6th. Nico Rosberg(Williams-Toyota)- 30.5
7th. Lewis Hamilton(McLaren-Mercedes)- 27
8th. Jarno Trulli(Toyota)- 22.5
9th. Felipe Massa(Scuderia Ferrari)- 22
10th. Heikki Kovalainen(McLaren-Mercedes)- 17

Monza, the race that, last year, provided current title contender Sebastian Vettel with his first win and STR's first win. Perhaps we may see a similar result this race, but don't cross your fingers.​

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Some actual news relating to the going-ons around here: Renault have decided that it's high time to re-introduce KERS into the mix as Monza is the single fastest circuit on the calendar. So I guess we can look forward to even less overtaking.

In more Renault-related news, rumour supposes that Fernando Alonso will call a press conference some time during the weekend and reveal his plans for 2010; other rumours imply Santander will actually be the one to make the announcement within the next few days.

Meanwhile, Brawn look likely to receive a major boost in the form of Mercedes buying into the team (though some reports suggest that Mercedes are buying out the Brackley squad), essentially giving them works support and increasing their standing with the other Mercedes-powered customer teams (ie if Mercedes could only supply three teams for next year, Brawn would be less likely to get the chop). There's no real word on how this will affect the McLaren-Mercedes relationship, though it's assumed McLaren will still remain Mercedes' primary works team.

Red Bull are not feeling bullish this weekend, with Christian Horner stating that they have to treat every race as if it were the final race in the championship, and Mark Webber feeling that they need to focus more than ever on their championship ambitions. With Monza being so fast - KERS cars can get a double boost down the main straight in the six seconds before and after the start/finih line - and the team having engine woes as well as a run of less-than-stellar results (particularly for Vettel), a lot is going to rest on the Monza result. They're not in a good position; Vettel has more points, but Webber has more engines, and they still need to go through Barrichello if they want to get to Button.

And, of course, Giancarlo Fisichella makes his debut for Ferrari, the first time in nearly two decades (I think, but don't quote me on it) that an Italian driver has been behind the wheel of a Ferrari in the Italian Grand Prix. Countryman Vitantonio Liuzzi gets promoted from Force India's test driver to the second Force India race seat, despite media reports that GP2 contender Vitaly Petrov waved a very large cheque under Vijay Mallya's nose.

 

[L_Hamilton]

Some actual news relating to the going-ons around here: Renault have decided that it's high time to re-introduce KERS into the mix as Monza is the single fastest circuit on the calendar. So I guess we can look forward to even less overtaking.

In more Renault-related news, rumour supposes that Fernando Alonso will call a press conference some time during the weekend and reveal his plans for 2010; other rumours imply Santander will actually be the one to make the announcement within the next few days.

I'm expecting a lot of lock-ups into turn 1 and 3, as that will be the only way to pass those with KERS.(late-braking AHHHH!!) And a lot of banzai moves on the outside.

What are your thoughts on where will Alonso end up?

And, of course, Giancarlo Fisichella makes his debut for Ferrari, the first time in nearly two decades (I think, but don't quote me on it) that an Italian driver has been behind the wheel of a Ferrari in the Italian Grand Prix.

I can't wait. It's not like he's not used to going from a mediocre team to a winning one . He went from Sauber to Renault and won his first race. He can pull a good finish this time, too! 👍

 

[prisonermonkeys]

What are your thoughts on where will Alonso end up?

I don't rightly know, and I don't rightly care either. If he goes to Ferrari, then fine, but I'm having a hard time making a case for either Massa or Raikkonen to be shown the door. I'm sick of all the rampant speculation and people assuming it's done when all we've got is a group of Spanish tabloids - none of which I'd wipe my backside with - pushing their agenda, as if they actually have a say in the matter.

So many people assume Alonso is going to Ferrari because Santander is. But Santander is not Alonso's personal sponsor, and I would bet my bottom dollar that their invovlement with the Scuderia in 2010 is no more than their involvement with McLaren. They're a bank, and while they've weathered the economic storm better than most, they can' be seen throwing exorbriant amounts of money around. Phillip Morris are said to be paying two hundred million dollars American to have Ferrari decked out in the Malboro barcode, and they'll stay with the team up until the very end. Besides, this is Ferrari we're talking about; if any sponsor tried to dictate their driver lineup, they'd be able to tell them where to stick it an find another sponsor. But even if this wasn't Ferrari, who ever heard of a secondary sponsor (if Santander can be called that; they may even be tertiary) being able to influence driver lineups?

If Alonso goes to Ferrari in 2010, so be it. I don't care any more. But deep down, I want him to stay at Renault or go somewhere we haven't anticipated. Just so that I can have the biggest "I told you so" moment with all the morons who believed the notoriously-unreliable Spanish tabloids.

 

[Stang245]

I can't wait for this 'announcement'! I just love announcements... Anyone catch the Renault roadshow in Oviedo last weekend? I caught it on Youtube. Sublime stuff... There must have been more people in attendance than Spa. Good times.

 

[L_Hamilton]

I don't rightly know, and I don't rightly care either. If he goes to Ferrari, then fine, but I'm having a hard time making a case for either Massa or Raikkonen to be shown the door. I'm sick of all the rampant speculation and people assuming it's done when all we've got is a group of Spanish tabloids - none of which I'd wipe my backside with - pushing their agenda, as if they actually have a say in the matter.

So many people assume Alonso is going to Ferrari because Santander is. But Santander is not Alonso's personal sponsor, and I would bet my bottom dollar that their invovlement with the Scuderia in 2010 is no more than their involvement with McLaren. They're a bank, and while they've weathered the economic storm better than most, they can' be seen throwing exorbriant amounts of money around. Phillip Morris are said to be paying two hundred million dollars American to have Ferrari decked out in the Malboro barcode, and they'll stay with the team up until the very end. Besides, this is Ferrari we're talking about; if any sponsor tried to dictate their driver lineup, they'd be able to tell them where to stick it an find another sponsor. But even if this wasn't Ferrari, who ever heard of a secondary sponsor (if Santander can be called that; they may even be tertiary) being able to influence driver lineups?

If Alonso goes to Ferrari in 2010, so be it. I don't care any more. But deep down, I want him to stay at Renault or go somewhere we haven't anticipated. Just so that I can have the biggest "I told you so" moment with all the morons who believed the notoriously-unreliable Spanish tabloids.

Well said, mate. Alonso has done so much to bring Renault back to life. It would be a shame to make the same mistake twice. Stay in a team that you know you can work with and accomplish top 5 results. I mean, his ride won't or never will for a while, be in jeopardy.

If he does, I feel bad for the driver who gets the boot. Ferrari's lineup is good as it is. But, Alonso has shown that he has what it takes to be a Ferrari driver.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I can't wait for this 'announcement'! I just love announcements...

It's only a rumour. It first came up around the time of the German and Hungarian Grands Prix, and I haven't heard anything about it since. I'm guessing it's obvsessive Alonsomaniacs (almost as bad as Lewisteria and Jensationalism in its own way) trying to convince themselves that Fred will be in a Ferrari next season. I remember it well, because I made an equally-convincing case for him to go to Campos.

If he does, I feel bad for the driver who gets the boot. Ferrari's lineup is good as it is. But, Alonso has shown that he has what it takes to be a Ferrari driver.

Well, the thing that rubs me the wrong way is that people just go hunting for witches. They say that Kimi is an aspiring alcoholic, if he isn't one already. They say that he has no motivation to do any better than he already is. They say he doesn't care, and that his personality is all wrong. And then they brazenly ignore the fact that the F60 was a terrible car to begin with, that Kimi has aways been short with people (the man seems to make a point of having people from outside the sport form his closest circle of friends, something I think would be pretty healthy), and that Kimi took Ferrari's first points of 2009, their first podium in Monaco, and now their first win in Belgium. What has he done wrong? When you compare him to Massa and discount every time he's been let down by mechanical failures or bad judgement calls by the team, he's only had two dud races: Turkey and Great Britain. If all it takes for a driver to lose his seat is for him to have two bad races, then none of the drivers on the current grid should be racing.

 

[niky]

RE: Mercedes Brawn deal... I don't see it hurting McLaren that much... actually, I think Mercedes would be tickled pink if nhearly every race from now till 2011 had three Merc-powered cars on the podium.

 

[L_Hamilton]

Well, the thing that rubs me the wrong way is that people just go hunting for witches. They say that Kimi is an aspiring alcoholic, if he isn't one already. They say that he has no motivation to do any better than he already is. They say he doesn't care, and that his personality is all wrong. And then they brazenly ignore the fact that the F60 was a terrible car to begin with, that Kimi has aways been short with people (the man seems to make a point of having people from outside the sport form his closest circle of friends, something I think would be pretty healthy), and that Kimi took Ferrari's first points of 2009, their first podium in Monaco, and now their first win in Belgium. What has he done wrong? When you compare him to Massa and discount every time he's been let down by mechanical failures or bad judgement calls by the team, he's only had two dud races: Turkey and Great Britain. If all it takes for a driver to lose his seat is for him to have two bad races, then none of the drivers on the current grid should be racing.

Alright, good. it isn't just me.

I noticed that, too. Massa isn't at all in a spot to be kicked out, too. Losing the world championship by a point is not enough to guarantee a spot in Ferrari is scary.

I don't see anyone questioning Hamilton's ability to drive an F1 car and he's pretty much in the same boat as Kimi and Massa.

The F60 was a complete flop at the beginning of the season and none of the drivers should be punished for their lack of consistency with a cruddy car. Well..besides Luca.

 

[yeti]

he's only had two dud races: Turkey and Great Britain. If all it takes for a driver to lose his seat is for him to have two bad races, then none of the drivers on the current grid should be racing.

Just to point out - he didn't cover himself in glory at Melbourne either?

C.

 

[Ardius]

Ferrari will make an announcement on drivers at Monza (they always do, don't they?) but it will simply be restating that Felipe and Kimi will be driving for them again plus maybe announcing extending Felipe's contract or something.

I likewise find it funny that as soon as Kimi finally does well, people are equally quick to go "look! he won a race, he's fine! all you people that talk about how crap he is are clearly wrong".
I never doubted Kimi's speed as a driver. Nor did I doubt he did have some motivation somewhere in there. I did however and still do doubt he has the required motivation when he isn't in with a chance of a podium or a win. I also don't believe his overtaking skills are all that much, it helps now with KERS though.

Rubbish drivers don't become world champion. But at the same time, Kimi is by no means the perfect driver and he lacks the all-out drive that his rivals have even when they are fighting over 13th place. He is also too careful when picking his overtaking, which when paired with a track like Hungary or a driver like Trulli makes him fairly useless until comes to pit stops.

Anyway, I think Ferrari will keep him, they have no reason not to.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Just to point out - he didn't cover himself in glory at Melbourne either?

I believe his trip into the wall was the product of a differential failure.

 

[yeti]

I believe his trip into the wall was the product of a differential failure.

Really? - The commentators (at the time) reckoned he just lost it - but if that's the case then I stand corrected.

C.

 

[sejtur]

Ferrari will make an announcement on drivers at Monza (they always do, don't they?) but it will simply be restating that Felipe and Kimi will be driving for them again plus maybe announcing extending Felipe's contract or something.

I likewise find it funny that as soon as Kimi finally does well, people are equally quick to go "look! he won a race, he's fine! all you people that talk about how crap he is are clearly wrong".
I never doubted Kimi's speed as a driver. Nor did I doubt he did have some motivation somewhere in there.

👍

I did however and still do doubt he has the required motivation when he isn't in with a chance of a podium or a win. I also don't believe his overtaking skills are all that much, it helps now with KERS though.

Rubbish drivers don't become world champion. But at the same time, Kimi is by no means the perfect driver and he lacks the all-out drive that his rivals have even when they are fighting over 13th place. He is also too careful when picking his overtaking, which when paired with a track like Hungary or a driver like Trulli makes him fairly useless until comes to pit stops.

Anyway, I think Ferrari will keep him, they have no reason not to.

Japan 2005? Bahrain 2006? Starting in the back and winning/finishing third.
Bahrain 2009: fought hard for points, and got them in 6th place.

And I think his overtaking skills are just fine. Why do you think they're not? Japan 2005 proved that they're good. By the way, at hungary it's difficult to overtake anyway.

 

[Ardius]

I can't name any specific races out of memory, but I generally felt from race to race he tended to get stuck behind people (especially last year) when he didn't qualify so well.
I remember Hungary 2008 had him stuck behind a few people but I can't remember if that was because of mechanical issues or not. He also was stuck in the pack at Singapore and made a silly error if I remember right at the bumpy chicane and lost it with only a few laps to go.

I will have to look back through the races and find some examples.

 

[sejtur]

I can't name any specific races out of memory, but I generally felt from race to race he tended to get stuck behind people (especially last year) when he didn't qualify so well.
I remember Hungary 2008 had him stuck behind a few people but I can't remember if that was because of mechanical issues or not. He also was stuck in the pack at Singapore and made a silly error if I remember right at the bumpy chicane and lost it with only a few laps to go.

I will have to look back through the races and find some examples.

Yes, those were very frustrating races for Kimi. In hungary, I remember, he was stuck behind alonso until the third stint. Then, he was stuck behind Glock. It doesn't say anything about his overtaking skills though, because the number of overtakings in that race were close to none I think. If you want to judge someone's overtaking skills, you have to have a good example, which is a track that supports overtaking moves. At least, more than hungary or monaco. Singapore isn't a good example either. Alsonso was struggeling to overtake Trulli while Trulli was actually 2-3 secs a lap slower than him. He got passed, but it took more laps than for example it would at spa, with the long Kemmel straight or the busstop-chicane.

Kimi made two stellar overtakings at Spa, so that already says that it's ridiculous if someone say he's not good at overtaking. Even if it was because of KERS he got close enough, an overtaking is an overtaking. Or remember Spa 2004? He overtook schumi without KERS. Good enough?

 

[orimarc]

I'm sick of all the rampant speculation and people assuming it's done when all we've got is a group of Spanish tabloids - none of which I'd wipe my backside with - pushing their agenda, as if they actually have a say in the matter.

If Alonso goes to Ferrari in 2010, so be it. I don't care any more. But deep down, I want him to stay at Renault or go somewhere we haven't anticipated. Just so that I can have the biggest "I told you so" moment with all the morons who believed the notoriously-unreliable Spanish tabloids.

Tell me about it. I swear, sometimes I wanna kick in the goddamn nuts the writers of the F1 sections. Worse: Normal people BELIEVE those rumors and speculations. [/OFF-TOPIC]

I can't wait to see the race. Specially with the "slick tyre + less aero" regulation.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I can't wait to see the race. Specially with the "slick tyre + less aero" regulation.

I can't wait to see it because Ferrari, McLaren and Force India have arguably got it over Brawn and Red Bull. And BMW thinking they can do it again and Renault coming armed with KERS, the championship battle is going to become one of the strangest we've ever seen.

 

[Ardius]

Kimi made two stellar overtakings at Spa, so that already says that it's ridiculous if someone say he's not good at overtaking. Even if it was because of KERS he got close enough, an overtaking is an overtaking. Or remember Spa 2004? He overtook schumi without KERS. Good enough?

Its not so much he isn't good at overtaking, but he's not as good as his rivals are. He's more careful, and while this means he's more reliable at finishing in good positions, it sometimes means he loses out. The likes of Alonso and Hamilton are a little more daring to go that extra length to gain positions, even if sometimes it means they crash or lose places.

I must stress I don't think he's terrible at overtakes, he can pull them off cleanly and effectively. I just think he lacks the extra push, at least nowdays anyway (more last year than this year). He's happy to sit back and wait for an opportunity than create one.

I will try to find a better example though, it will take some time though, there are a lot of races to look through!

 

[LSX]

Monza is a great track.

Other information on Monza.

Top speed - 351Kmh/218Mph Highest of the schedule.

Lap length - 5.7Km/3.5Mi 4th longest circuit on the schedule.

Longest flat out section - 1,320m/.8 miles 3rd longest of the
schedule.

Monza shares the top spot for highest % of a lap spent at full throttle - 70%

Monza has the lowest tire wear of any circuit on the schedule. Monza is also the track where the cars would have the lowest downforce numbers dialed into the car. Monza is a track that also produces medium break wear.

The drivers will make 46 gear changes per lap, a relatively low number as compared with most of the circuits on the schedule.

Tire information could now be outdated due to use of slick tires and different rubber compounds.

Information thanks to BMW 2008.


I'm interested to see if Force India will keep up with what they started back in Belgium almost two weeks ago. I'm thinking the Ferraris will also have a good showing this weekend. I'm sure Fisi will do a better job than Luca. I really want to see Rubens with a good run this weekend, close the gap on Jenson, get himself a title for once.

 

[Ardius]

In more Renault-related news, rumour supposes that Fernando Alonso will call a press conference some time during the weekend and reveal his plans for 2010; other rumours imply Santander will actually be the one to make the announcement within the next few days.

http://twitter.com/NobleF1
"Ferrari/Santander press conference at Monza on Thursday at 4pm"

 

[Ian Poole]

And, of course, Giancarlo Fisichella makes his debut for Ferrari, the first time in nearly two decades (I think, but don't quote me on it) that an Italian driver has been behind the wheel of a Ferrari in the Italian Grand Prix. Countryman Vitantonio Liuzzi gets promoted from Force India's test driver to the second Force India race seat, despite media reports that GP2 contender Vitaly Petrov waved a very large cheque under Vijay Mallya's nose.

I think you're right about The Italian driver in a Ferrari, ,ight have been someone but can't think off top of my head

NOTE (edited part): I know Alboreto raced in the 88 GP but I think Morbidelli did in 1991, not sure on that though.

Also, I can see a Russian waving a cheque under an Indian's nose, you can also see the same thing between an Italian team and a Spaniard if you tune in and hear the world's most shocking announcement(!)

 

[mipuumal]

The last Italian driving for Ferrari in F1 (besides Luca) was probably Michele Alboreto, unless you count Jean Alesi (French-sicilian).

 

[Ian Poole]

The last Italian driving for Ferrari in F1 (besides Luca) was probably Michele Alboreto, unless you count Jean Alesi (French-sicilian).

He meant in the Italian GP, and unless Badoer is going to race a Ferrari road car around Monza, I don't think he will EVER race for Ferrari at Monza

 

[Ardius]

I think you're right about The Italian driver in a Ferrari, ,ight have been someone but can't think off top of my head

NOTE (edited part): I know Alboreto raced in the 88 GP but I think Morbidelli did in 1991, not sure on that though.

Morbidelli only raced once for Ferrari in 1991. It wasn't in Italy.

The last Italian driving for Ferrari in F1 (besides Luca) was probably Michele Alboreto, unless you count Jean Alesi (French-sicilian).

Nicola Larini was the last if you mean other than the Italian GP.


The last Italian to drive a Ferrari at the Italian Grand Prix was Ivan Capelli (1992)....how can people forget Capelli? He was very much like Alesi. Not quite two decades then. Actually, Capelli's story is very much like Fisichella's in the sense of dreaming of driving for Ferrari and getting the chance after spending some time in smaller teams. (though Capelli's story has less glory and is a little more sad).

 

[Ian Poole]

Morbidelli only raced once for Ferrari in 1991. It wasn't in Italy.



Nicola Larini was the last if you mean other than the Italian GP.


The last Italian to drive a Ferrari at the Italian Grand Prix was Ivan Capelli (1992)....how can people forget Capelli? He was very much like Alesi. Not quite two decades then. Actually, Capelli's story is very much like Fisichella's in the sense of dreaming of driving for Ferrari and getting the chance after spending some time in smaller teams. (though Capelli's story has less glory and is a little more sad).

Thank you for correcting me on the Morbidelli, i forgot all about Capelli, i remember actually racing as him on F1 Pole Position on the Super Nintendo, what a game!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

http://twitter.com/NobleF1
"Ferrari/Santander press conference at Monza on Thursday at 4pm"

Yes, Ferrari and Santander. No mention of Alonso. Phillip Morris is said to be paying two hundred millions dollars American for naming rights to Ferrari, and Santander cannot compete with them, even if they survived the economic meltdown better than other banks. They are most likely going to become a secondary sponsor the way they were with McLaren; my guess is that they are getting their name on the car early so that when tobacco branding is banned and Phillip Morris leaves, they'll be in a better position to become title sponsor.

While title sponsors may have some influence over who drives for the team, this is Ferrari we're talking about. There's no shortage of people who would be willing to pay exorbiant amounts to sponsor them, so if Ferrari don't like the terms of the sponsorship deal, they can always go somewhere else. They're the only team who can really afford to. But putting that aside, who ever heard of a secondary sponsor - like Santander - being able to influence a driver lineup? Even a smaller team like Minardi and Jordan would have laughed at them.

 

[Ardius]

I was just confirming your "rumours [that] imply Santander will actually be the one to make the announcement within the next few days."
I wasn't referring to Alonso at all.

 

[Lee]

I can easially see a Merc engine winning this, probably a toss up between Brawn and McLaren. I know the latter still have issues with generating downforce in high speed turns, so maybe that wittles their chances down a bit. But then you can say that's made up by the lovely little KERS button.

Ferrari and Red Bull should duke it out for points too and keep an eye on Toyota, the only track I can think of that closely resembles Monza is Bahrain, and they took the front row in quali there.

Bee's Super Duper Awesome Predictions

1st: Barrichello
2nd: Hamilton
3rd: Button
4th: Vettel
5th: Kovalainen
6th: Raikkonen
7th: Webber
8th: Sutil

Fastest Lap: Hamilton

Pole: Vettel on a stupid fuel load.

 

[Ardius]

I'm not going to even try to predict what will happen.

For the first time ever (I think), I have no idea which teams will be strong and which will be weak beyond Toro Rosso and Nakajima not doing very much.

Can anyone think of a past season or race in F1 where its been like this? Where almost all 10 teams have chances of points or podiums? Where drivers are so close in competitiveness?
As Murray Walker said: "In F1 anything can happen, and it usually does!".